About the Engineer's Flamethrower

[Kaizer.8261]

I finally built a condi build for Engineer recently, and went to test it ASAP farming a bit on Bjora Marches using the flamethrower

One thing i've noticed is that it wasn't causing as much burning damage as i thought it would with it's regular attack. It only applies 1 stack of Burn at the start of the attack, and another stack at the end, so i need to ask it here:

It is bugged or working intentionally? If so, wouldn't it make more sense applying more stacks of Burn and relly more on condition damage?

[Dawdler.8521]

The flamethrower is a hybrid weapon, not just condi (AA does ~ 2x the damage of the "power" rifle in the same amount of time I believe). I hope you're running vipers or similar, or it's gonna be really lackluster in PvE.

[Kaizer.8261]

@"Dawdler.8521" said:The flamethrower is a hybrid weapon, not just condi (AA does ~ 2x the damage of the "power" rifle in the same amount of time I believe). I hope you're running vipers or similar, or it's gonna be really lackluster in PvE.

I do! Just finished Weapons and Armoury, but i'm still missing the acessories.Maybe that's why i feel like my damage is too low?

[Kodama.6453]

@"Dawdler.8521" said:The flamethrower is a hybrid weapon, not just condi (AA does ~ 2x the damage of the "power" rifle in the same amount of time I believe). I hope you're running vipers or similar, or it's gonna be really lackluster in PvE.

The thing is: should it be a hybrid weapon?We already have grenade kit and bomb kit with hybrid damage, I think flamethrower would make sense as a pure condition damage weapon.

Especially since they changed flamethrower 2 and cut all of it's power damage away and gave it burning stacks instead.The auto attack is the only skill left in the flamethrower kit that deals some power damage, everything else deals the majority in burning stacks. Maybe they should gut it's power damage as well and let it apply a short stack of burning with every tick. Would make sense thematically as well.

[Yasai.3549]

@Kodama.6453 said:The thing is: should it be a hybrid weapon?

Yes.Being torched by a flamethrower doesn't hurt after the flame thrower stops spitting and yur burning up.It's put into Firearms for this reason, as the traitline which supports Condition damage and Critical damage.

While having each tick apply Burning would skyrocket it in popularity for Condition builds, I don't think they should take away power from it.

[draxynnic.3719]

@Kodama.6453 said:

@"Dawdler.8521" said:The flamethrower is a hybrid weapon, not just condi (AA does ~ 2x the damage of the "power" rifle in the same amount of time I believe). I hope you're running vipers or similar, or it's gonna be really lackluster in PvE.

The thing is: should it be a hybrid weapon?We already have grenade kit and bomb kit with hybrid damage, I think flamethrower would make sense as a pure condition damage weapon.

Especially since they changed flamethrower 2 and cut all of it's power damage away and gave it burning stacks instead.The auto attack is the only skill left in the flamethrower kit that deals some power damage, everything else deals the majority in burning stacks. Maybe they should gut it's power damage as well and let it apply a short stack of burning with every tick. Would make sense thematically as well.

Yes, it should, until and unless Impact Savant gets to use condition damage as well.

[Diak Atoli.2085]

@"Dawdler.8521" said:The flamethrower is a hybrid weapon, not just condi (AA does ~ 2x the damage of the "power" rifle in the same amount of time I believe). I hope you're running vipers or similar, or it's gonna be really lackluster in PvE.

I think Grieving stats with Runes of the Flame Legion would be the best option for camping flamethrower.

[draxynnic.3719]

@Diak Atoli.2085 said:

@"Dawdler.8521" said:The flamethrower is a hybrid weapon, not just condi (AA does ~ 2x the damage of the "power" rifle in the same amount of time I believe). I hope you're running vipers or similar, or it's gonna be really lackluster in PvE.

I think Grieving stats with Runes of the Flame Legion would be the best option for camping flamethrower.

Not sure about that. You can build up a lot of Bleed stacks with flamethrower, so you can still benefit from general condition duration rather than just extending the duration of Burning. The scrapper/juggernaut build also has the potential to stack up boons - getting +100% boon duration can mean you self-generate 60% Quickness uptime.

[Diak Atoli.2085]

@draxynnic.3719 said:

@Diak Atoli.2085 said:

@"Dawdler.8521" said:The flamethrower is a hybrid weapon, not just condi (AA does ~ 2x the damage of the "power" rifle in the same amount of time I believe). I hope you're running vipers or similar, or it's gonna be really lackluster in PvE.

I think Grieving stats with Runes of the Flame Legion would be the best option for camping flamethrower.

Not sure about that. You can build up a lot of Bleed stacks with flamethrower, so you can still benefit from general condition duration rather than just extending the duration of Burning. The scrapper/juggernaut build also has the potential to stack up boons - getting +100% boon duration can mean you self-generate 60% Quickness uptime.

The Runes of the Flame Legion are good for the additional power damage. I'm not sure it's worth trying to get 100% condition duration unless you're going full conditions.

As for boons, Diviner's would work with Juggernaut, but you lose any sort of condition damage. I don't remember any condition-focused gear that includes concentration, either.

[draxynnic.3719]

@Diak Atoli.2085 said:

@draxynnic.3719 said:

@Diak Atoli.2085 said:

@"Dawdler.8521" said:The flamethrower is a hybrid weapon, not just condi (AA does ~ 2x the damage of the "power" rifle in the same amount of time I believe). I hope you're running vipers or similar, or it's gonna be really lackluster in PvE.

I think Grieving stats with Runes of the Flame Legion would be the best option for camping flamethrower.

Not sure about that. You can build up a lot of Bleed stacks with flamethrower, so you can still benefit from general condition duration rather than just extending the duration of Burning. The scrapper/juggernaut build also has the potential to stack up boons - getting +100% boon duration can mean you self-generate 60% Quickness uptime.

The Runes of the Flame Legion are good for the additional power damage. I'm not sure it's worth trying to get 100% condition duration unless you're going full conditions.

As for boons, Diviner's would work with Juggernaut, but you lose any sort of condition damage. I don't remember any condition-focused gear that includes concentration, either.

Seraph's and Plaguedoctor's give you CD and concentration, but you give up power, which is (at least currently) still useful for a flamethrower. Particularly scrapper flamethrower.

I think for solo play, Diviner's would be worthwhile. It means you self-maintain more Might stacks, so you get some condi damage that way, and the Quickness means you make more attacks and can get more condi procs (although lower Precision might offset that unless you mix things up or find some other way to increase crit chance). For situations where you're reasonably confident of getting plenty of boons from other sources, though, then you'd probably switch to something more directly damage-oriented.

[Dedlaw.9130]

@Yasai.3549 said:Being torched by a flamethrower doesn't hurt after the flame thrower stops spitting and yur burning up.

Going by this logic of applying real world physics to ingame mechanics, all fire attacks should cause burning

[draxynnic.3719]

@Dedlaw.9130 said:

@"Yasai.3549" said:Being torched by a flamethrower doesn't hurt after the flame thrower stops spitting and yur burning up.

Going by this logic of applying real world physics to ingame mechanics, all fire attacks should cause burning

I think it is reasonable to consider that there may be some forms of fire that is a brief burst that applies thermal shock without having much chance of ignition (particularly on a target who's not wearing flammable gear) as opposed to things that leave burning fuel on the target or where the spell itself keeps the fire going rather than being that brief burst. This probably serves to distinguish the "power damage" flames from the burning appliers.

Which might actually be an explanation for the "final pulse causes burning" mechanic with Flame Jet. The flamethrower is spitting out burning fuel, but for most of the stream there's enough force coming from the jet that the fuel has little chance to settle and burn on the target. It's only as the jet winds down that the fuel can settle and continue to burn.