Heal renegade (Harrier's) or Boon support (Berserker/Diviner's)?

[Taedan.5786]

I have a power DH and a condi scourge and I am looking to roundout my stable with a support char. After playing around a bit I realised I would like that to be a revenant. There are 2 specs that are considered good for rev and those are: boon support (berserker, diviner) and heal (harrier). Since both sets come down to 200-225g, I can only afford to make one. Which spec should I be going for? I do fractals daily and raids semi weekly. Increasingly I am also doing the daily strike. Any advice that would help me make my decision?

[Painbow.6059]

I would recommend diviners. In fractals, the renegade nearly always plays diviners in groups with a healer, making it easier for you to join groups. In raids, PuG's will typically have the firebrand play heal and look for a diviner ren (although contrary to popular practice having a harrier renegade paired with a condi quickbrand is the best firebrigade heal option) - the same applies for Strikes.

[ArchonWing.9480]

For fractals, definitely diviners.

I gave up on heal renegade because nobody seems to want it since they all demand a healbrand. Also while pugs seem bad at stacking they're pretty adept at running away from your tablet. A heal renegade only makes sense for groups that don't need a healbrand but also still need a healer-- which is almost no one if you are pugging so diviners fits in 99% of the time.

[BRNBRITO.9624]

Even though Heal ren + Quickbrand is better than Healbrand + Diviner ren, most people don't know/understand that and just copy whatever they see the most, so Diviner is your best bet for PvE.

[Cyninja.2954]

What others have said:Due to ease of use, diviner renegade and heal fb is the most common support comp for fractals (and often raids), even if heal ren+quick brand would be better.

Here is a small recommendation:You need aroubd 75% boon duration total for permanent alacrity. With fractal potions, this can easily be achieved without diviner armor. Use the berserker DH set, adjust food, get trinkets and weapons, and you are ready.

If you enjoy the class, then make another diviner set.

[Taedan.5786]

Thanks! I will be going with diviners.

[Nephalem.8921]

@Cyninja.2954 said:You need aroubd 75% boon duration total for permanent alacrity.Last time I checked this was 78% but most rens have 80-85% to have at least 0.5sec overcap.For fractals this could be full diviner with berserker force + impact weapons and diviner concentration + force for raids.

[lare.5129]

about fractals:harrier armor + cleric juve is more easy and BEST way to prepare your revenant for support in fractals on t4If you can close CMS - devineron t4 with chill party diviner revenant can be useless not othen that healsup.

[Taedan.5786]

@lare.5129 said:about fractals:harrier armor + cleric juve is more easy and BEST way to prepare your revenant for support in fractals on t4If you can close CMS - devineron t4 with chill party diviner revenant can be useless not othen that healsup.

Im sorry I dont quite follow what youre saying? Youre saying harriers renegade is more usefull in fractals?

[sokeenoppa.5384]

@Taedan.5786 said:

@lare.5129 said:about fractals:harrier armor + cleric juve is more easy and BEST way to prepare your revenant for support in fractals on t4If you can close CMS - devineron t4 with chill party diviner revenant can be useless not othen that healsup.

Im sorry I dont quite follow what youre saying? Youre saying harriers renegade is more usefull in fractals?

Meta for fractals is quickbrand, alarene, soulbeast, bs and dps. (No heal)However pug meta is quickbrand, HEAL renegade, soulbeast, bs and dps. renegade should heal because quickbrand dps is alot higher than renegade dps so its a huge dps lose to force quickbrand to heal.

!BUT! Fractals are more safer with healbrand so most ppl tends to go with healbrand instead of heal rene even tho its not as meta.

[Cyninja.2954]

@"lare.5129" said:about fractals:harrier armor + cleric juve is more easy and BEST way to prepare your revenant for support in fractals on t4If you can close CMS - devineron t4 with chill party diviner revenant can be useless not othen that healsup.

No, please no.

There is absolutely no reasoning to assume getting cleric is "easier" on trinkets. Not with the amount of ascended trinkets in all those living worlds season 3, 4 and 5 maps. Might as well use harrier IF you are going for a heal renegade. Cleric is garbage in pve.

If you are running a "chill" T4 group and regular supports are not sufficient, chance are very high players will not be stacked well enough to make use of a healing renegade. In that case, drop the alacrity, get a healbrand/druid/heal scourge.

As a matter of fact, if you want to carry ANY group through T4, might just as well make a heal scourge and not waste resources on renegade. As far as renegade, go diviner or berserker and get the boon duration to 80%+.

[Nephalem.8921]

@sokeenoppa.5384 said:

@Taedan.5786 said:

@lare.5129 said:about fractals:harrier armor + cleric juve is more easy and BEST way to prepare your revenant for support in fractals on t4If you can close CMS - devineron t4 with chill party diviner revenant can be useless not othen that healsup.

Im sorry I dont quite follow what youre saying? Youre saying harriers renegade is more usefull in fractals?

Meta for fractals is quickbrand, alarene, soulbeast, bs and dps. (No heal)However pug meta is quickbrand, HEAL renegade, soulbeast, bs and dps. renegade should heal because quickbrand dps is alot higher than renegade dps so its a huge dps lose to force quickbrand to heal.

!BUT! Fractals are more safer with healbrand so most ppl tends to go with healbrand instead of heal rene even tho its not as meta.

Healren cant strip boons though or give resistance without dropping heal a lot. also kalla spirits are quite useless vs certain encounters. I've never seen a pug healren. I only rarely play it in fractals like mai trin with very shit instabs with a cm group that usually plays without a healer.If you want to be optimal you should replace that slb for most of the normal t4 fractals aswell since it is just garbage in fractals like sirens reef. Its only meta for cms.

[lare.5129]

@Taedan.5786 said:Im sorry I dont quite follow what youre saying? Youre saying harriers renegade is more usefull in fractals?yes, harriers renegade is best choose.I have leg armor, and use 3 prepared builds1)harrier +cleric fro common t4 run where I need heal2)diviner for cms run with VERY exp people. Sometimes we not use heal in party at all.

3)plaguedoctor for some runs with once per week 4 scourge setup from my freindlis.

[lare.5129]

@"Cyninja.2954" said:There is absolutely no reasoning to assume getting cleric is "easier" on trinkets. Not with the amount of ascended trinkets in all those living worlds season 3, 4 and 5 mapsIf have ls3 ls4 yes. If not - and want go fractal NOW, not next day the way is get setup per day is change arrmor stats to harrier, and use cleric juve.After some time ofc some cleric change to harrier till 100% boon duration. I am talk about "one day preparation biuld"

If you are running a "chill" T4 group and regular supports are not sufficient, chance are very high players will not be stacked well enough to make use of a healing renegade. In that case, drop the alacrity, get a healbrand/druid/heal scourge.As I say sometimes we need healrabnd, healrene and heal scourge and 2 dps. Because without 3 heals that dps die each 20 seconds. All depend from skill. In chill guild run we otfen use 3 supports + 2 dps setup

This is NOT meta. This is normal common non speed chill run with giuld members or pugs wihtout kp.

[sokeenoppa.5384]

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@sokeenoppa.5384 said:

@Taedan.5786 said:

@lare.5129 said:about fractals:harrier armor + cleric juve is more easy and BEST way to prepare your revenant for support in fractals on t4If you can close CMS - devineron t4 with chill party diviner revenant can be useless not othen that healsup.

Im sorry I dont quite follow what youre saying? Youre saying harriers renegade is more usefull in fractals?

Meta for fractals is quickbrand, alarene, soulbeast, bs and dps. (No heal)However pug meta is quickbrand, HEAL renegade, soulbeast, bs and dps. renegade should heal because quickbrand dps is alot higher than renegade dps so its a huge dps lose to force quickbrand to heal.

!BUT! Fractals are more safer with healbrand so most ppl tends to go with healbrand instead of heal rene even tho its not as meta.

Healren cant strip boons though or give resistance without dropping heal a lot. also kalla spirits are quite useless vs certain encounters. I've never seen a pug healren. I only rarely play it in fractals like mai trin with very kitten instabs with a cm group that usually plays without a healer.If you want to be optimal you should replace that slb for most of the normal t4 fractals aswell since it is just garbage in fractals like sirens reef. Its only meta for cms.

Well meta is not often played with pugs and heal rene should be taken over non heal composition if group requires a bit more support.Like I said, most ppl dont care and just takes healbrand to cheese encounters.

[Cyninja.2954]

@lare.5129 said:

@"Cyninja.2954" said:There is absolutely no reasoning to assume getting cleric is "easier" on trinkets. Not with the amount of ascended trinkets in all those living worlds season 3, 4 and 5 mapsIf have ls3 ls4 yes. If not - and want go fractal NOW, not next day the way is get setup per day is change arrmor stats to harrier, and use cleric juve.After some time ofc some cleric change to harrier till 100% boon duration. I am talk about "one day preparation biuld"

If you are running a "chill" T4 group and regular supports are not sufficient, chance are very high players will not be stacked well enough to make use of a healing renegade. In that case, drop the alacrity, get a healbrand/druid/heal scourge.As I say sometimes we need healrabnd, healrene and heal scourge and 2 dps. Because without 3 heals that dps die each 20 seconds. All depend from skill. In chill guild run we otfen use 3 supports + 2 dps setup

This is NOT meta. This is normal common non speed chill run with giuld members or pugs wihtout kp.

Sorry, but you shouldn't ever need 3 healers to survive normal T4 fractals. I have never seen a PUG group require 3 healers (then again, I often would go heal scourge in the past. Last few months I've only run CMs +T4, so maybe PUG groups have become this terrible).

Drop all those healers and take a heal scourge if the group performance is that bad. It will both prove a far better carry and you are free to take up to 4 dps which cuts encounter time (and thus damage taken) significantly. Or make a 5 scourge group to cheese the content.

That's actually one of the biggest mistakes weak groups make: assume more healing will make fractals easier, when in fact, it often makes it worse. Having enough damage to clear regular enemies in normal T4s is a huge aspect of reducing damage taken to the group.

[ButcherofMalakir.4067]

@BRNBRITO.9624 said:Even though Heal ren + Quickbrand is better than Healbrand + Diviner ren, most people don't know/understand that and just copy whatever they see the most, so Diviner is your best bet for PvE.

It depends. Heal firebrand has more healing. Renegade heals a ton but players needs to be atacking which is not always the case

[ArchonWing.9480]

I think scourge is generally overkill for anything besides Siren's Reef and some devilish combo of instabilities. IMO, if you're doing t4s, you should have a bit more self respect than to get carried by that. If your party is so potato that they need scourges, then you're better off with a new party or just going power reaper and solo dpsing this crap. In some cases pugs are better left dead because they'll mess up mechanics. For example, a fight is harder if someone tries to range Mai Trinn.

Any variant of Firebrigade where either plays healer is generally sufficient for your average t4 pug that actually tries to do something just because it covers all forms of defense, offensive boons, and damage so everyone can dps like its a golem. In general, you can find a random healbrand that does ok if they press buttons but I think Rene is a bit harder to play so bringing Diviner Rene can help more. Plus you can actually do damage too. You also will fit in a real comp better anyways.

Statics are of course, a different story, and everyone has their own needs.

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@BRNBRITO.9624 said:Even though Heal ren + Quickbrand is better than Healbrand + Diviner ren, most people don't know/understand that and just copy whatever they see the most, so Diviner is your best bet for PvE.

It depends. Heal firebrand has more healing. Renegade heals a ton but players needs to be atacking which is not always the case

It's not really an issue of healing but rather that firebrand is capable of much higher burst than renegade. (or so I've been told) Thus it makes more sense for the Renegade to sacrifice their dps than the firebrand.

However, weaker players are just better handled by firebrand's blocks and massive utility from tomes. While Quickbrand can also provide blocks, they'd lose a boatload of dps should they switch to a defensive tome. And as you stated, weaker players also aren't going to be able to burst when Soulcleaver is up on demand. So in practice, groups that need a healer are usually better off with a healbrand, and groups that don't need it won't need a heal because they phase the boss too fast anyways. Heal renegade pretty much just fills that tiny gap in between and that is why it just doesn't show up in practice when it comes to pugging.

Also, by now, people are probably just farming fractals for dailies rather than going full tryhard, so they'd rather have a firebrand negate some mechanics while they do it on autopilot.

[RaidsAreEasyAF.8652]

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:It depends. Heal firebrand has more healing. Renegade heals a ton but players needs to be atacking which is not always the case

Theres more to Healing Renegade than Soulcleave Summit. If you only want Soulcleave Summit for healing you should probably play diviner renegade. Soulcleave Summit is strong enough without Healingpower.The Tablet is quite strong and theres still Breakrazors Bastion. That thing heals for almost 3k per second and lasts 10 seconds.

[lare.5129]

@"Cyninja.2954" said:Sorry, but you shouldn't ever need 3 healers to survive normal T4 fractals.yes, you right. It shouldn't not be. But it is.

I have never seen a PUG group require 3 healers .. Last few months I've only run CMs +T4CMs +T4 ? As I say on that group ofc not need heal rene biuld. PUG very diferent. You can wiht some party do all cms and t4 per hour, and wiht other you need 2 hours to make T4s instances with guild embers and without any toxication.

Drop all those healers and take a heal scourge if the group performance is that bad.yes, it bad. But on other hand you have rule "dead people don't do any damage at all"

Or make a 5 scourge group to cheese the content.yes, sometimes we do condi party, I take plaguedoctor, and have 4 dps scourge friend in party.

That's actually one of the biggest mistakes weak groups make: assume more healing will make fractals easiereasy is take very skilled people and do it in any setup. But this is not common run

[Cyninja.2954]

@lare.5129 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:Sorry, but you shouldn't ever need 3 healers to survive normal T4 fractals.yes, you right. It shouldn't not be. But it is.

In that case, please make clear that you are talking about absolute bottom skill level players in T4.

No group with players who have a basic understanding of this game should be the target for 3 healer setups in 5 man groups for NORMAL T4s.

If people can't survive with 2 healers (which is already 1 healer more than needed, but let's assume it's a day with difficult instabilities), they need to reevaluate how they approach content, and maybe not face tank every single attack.

This is not about something being meta or not. Using 3 healers is pretty much terrible and will only be used to compensate for absolute terrible play. Every person in such a group would be better off to spend 5 minutes training dodge rather than getting carried by other players never learning mechanics. I guarantee you, if you go into public groups with a mindset that you need 3 healers, you will get removed many many times. So while this might work for a guild group, it's terrible to actually play with random players for regular PUGs.

[Linken.6345]

@lare.5129 said:

@"Cyninja.2954" said:Sorry, but you shouldn't ever need 3 healers to survive normal T4 fractals.yes, you right. It shouldn't not be. But it is.

I have never seen a PUG group require 3 healers .. Last few months I've only run CMs +T4CMs +T4 ? As I say on that group ofc not need heal rene biuld. PUG very diferent. You can wiht some party do all cms and t4 per hour, and wiht other you need 2 hours to make T4s instances with guild embers and without any toxication.

Drop all those healers and take a heal scourge if the group performance is that bad.yes, it bad. But on other hand you have rule "dead people don't do any damage at all"

Or make a 5 scourge group to cheese the content.yes, sometimes we do condi party, I take plaguedoctor, and have 4 dps scourge friend in party.

That's actually one of the biggest mistakes weak groups make: assume more healing will make fractals easiereasy is take very skilled people and do it in any setup. But this is not common run

Only place 3 healer is needed is needed so far is overheal boneskinner strike mission mate but thats out of 10 opeople so 1½ in fractals should be enough for everyone =P

[ButcherofMalakir.4067]

@RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:It depends. Heal firebrand has more healing. Renegade heals a ton but players needs to be atacking which is not always the case

Theres more to Healing Renegade than Soulcleave Summit. If you only want Soulcleave Summit for healing you should probably play diviner renegade. Soulcleave Summit is strong enough without Healingpower.The Tablet is quite strong and theres still Breakrazors Bastion. That thing heals for almost 3k per second and lasts 10 seconds.

Yes. But the problem is that you dont have it on demand. Sometimes you have to be in kalla for healing. If players dont fail so they need hsaling suddenly tjen renegade is better. But if someo e is getting hit constantly...Firebrand has alot more emergency buttons

[RaidsAreEasyAF.8652]

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:But the problem is that you dont have it on demand. Sometimes you have to be in kalla for healing. If players dont fail so they need hsaling suddenly tjen renegade is >better. But if someo e is getting hit constantly...Firebrand has alot more emergency buttons

But thats basically what Breakrazors is for. You can put Soulcleave on the boss and you still have Breakrazors for emergencys. For example when someone doesnt wanna stack. And if you are not on Kalla you have the tablet. A strong heal with actually good range.

[Nephalem.8921]

@RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:But the problem is that you dont have it on demand. Sometimes you have to be in kalla for healing. If players dont fail so they need hsaling suddenly tjen renegade is >better. But if someo e is getting hit constantly...Firebrand has alot more emergency buttons

But thats basically what Breakrazors is for. You can put Soulcleave on the boss and you still have Breakrazors for emergencys. For example when someone doesnt wanna stack. And if you are not on Kalla you have the tablet. A strong heal with actually good range.

And then breakrazor dies or gets cc'd. Party can also die to condi spam thanks to incredible energy costs on those skills. Healren only works with good players, fb can hardcarry.