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Core ranger is broken


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@RisenHowl.2419 said:I like how reaper's gravedigger hits for 5-6k while maul hits for 9k, birds drop 4-5k AAs, and tigers are still getting over 10k. Feels like balance

I like how I can drop my 9k maul, my 7k swoop (vid proof of 5k autos, they auto for like 1.5k in ideal conditions with all buffs) and the reaper still has 6k life force I have to whittle down, then after I do that and they kite for 10s they have another 25k life force I have to burn through from blighter's boon whilst my burst combo still isn't off CD.

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@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Odik.4587 said:Ye, play a clown now like this other "ranger mains", just kill the pet, waste your cooldowns and health trying to trade with a pet and expect ranger to AFK and watch without swapping it and attacking you :joy:Its hilarious, so many hypocrites, these who say birds are bad are using double birds, the same PERSON in this thread said himself ranger is busted and now defending it :joy:
  1. That's why you kill the pet immediately
    after
    the ranger pet swaps. It doesn't take too many brain cells to figure out.
  2. The birds and tiger have 500 less armor than someone using berserker amulet. The pets don't dodge, and they don't condi cleanse, a.k.a. put some weakness on the pet and it's like killing a golem.Sure ranger politely will wait and let it die /sMy ranger has demolisher amulet and divinity rune (2607 armor, I even took more damage than the bird). So cut this nonsense about brids/tigers have ~1400 armor.

So don't tunnel vision the pet and ignore the ranger?

It's kind of funny what you're saying. You fight the ranger, and ignore the pet and die. Or... you fight the pet, and ignore the ranger and die.

It's not that hard to pay attention to both at the same time especially when one of them has an audible, giant bear to watch out for as the main source of damage. Also not sure why you have so much trouble killing a glass AI that doesn't dodge or condi clear.

People tunnel vision a lot, and when they lose they end up sometimes blaming others rather than themselves. They get used to playing a certain way, which is one thing necro mains warn about changes since people are very used to fighting necro and tunneling them and focusing them down and having them easy free kill punching bags.

many necromancers warn that such changes of nerfing sustain too much would be disastrous to core and reaper who has to take melee brunt force.

Rangers, on the other hand, warn that their main weapons GS(close range with maul) double ax damages. There could be disastrous consequences if you made a very easy to kill pet also do no damage, but a lot of people whining and Q_Q for the nerfs don't care or listen to what people who main class says.

Look at what warnings thief mains give and yet people still call for nerfs for stealth into the ground. Not fun and overpowered like someone else said is a totally different thing.

People crying for nerfs has become a meme in itself that goes back and was something popular in wow. What's the saying grass is always greener on the other side?

Also, one thing I really dislike about these kinds of nerf threads is: you don't see videos of them playing as examples, or know or even see what rank they are in.

They could be lying, generalizing, and all we would have is their word.

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@apharma.3741 said:Except it isn't necro mains asking for ranger to be addressed, well known top players in EU say it's broken, you can see them saying it in Sindrener's and Boyce's stream. You can also see these 2 players saying that they don't want ANet to hammer it down to useless but that it needs a lot of adjustments, small in size but a lot of them.

Also not seeing them in WvW? Are you blind or do you just choo choo with a tag all the time? There's loads of rangers dotted around adding into small fights or worse still adding into fights at duel spots.

They are the same people who said the tradeoff to the soulbeast is okay. I am sorry but when balance takes precedence over fun and engaging gameplay, I would not consider that good advice to listen to. Any change to gameplay must be made so that it improves the gameplay. Always add to the gameplay, do not remove from the gameplay and the changes made to soulbeast made it a boring 1 button class. A dumbed down version that I feel has the laziest gameplay among all the other classes. And what did the change do? It made people pick ranger. Ranger is fine where it is. It is strong against certain classes and weak against other. The only problem I have with ranger is the high utility of the greatsword. It has got damage, escape a block and a stun/recharge and in the hands of a skilled player, it is very hard to pin the ranger and take it down. But that is fine because a ranger is not really good at holding points and it is not a strong dueling class. A ranger is a class that applies constant pressure and I feel that it has a place in the meta. Do not nerf it into oblivion because people are too busy chasing rangers around the map instead of capping points. And as rangers are a pet class, it is important that the pets are seen as threats and not just random minis following the ranger around. The only change I would suggest is to increase the cd for pet revival from 60 secs to 300 seconds. Good pet management must be required which I feel is being neglected currently.

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@Tazer.2157 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Except it isn't necro mains asking for ranger to be addressed, well known top players in EU say it's broken, you can see them saying it in Sindrener's and Boyce's stream. You can also see these 2 players saying that they don't want ANet to hammer it down to useless but that it needs a lot of adjustments, small in size but a lot of them.

Also not seeing them in WvW? Are you blind or do you just choo choo with a tag all the time? There's loads of rangers dotted around adding into small fights or worse still adding into fights at duel spots.

They are the same people who said the tradeoff to the soulbeast is okay. I am sorry but when balance takes precedence over fun and engaging gameplay, I would not consider that good advice to listen to. Any change to gameplay must be made so that it improves the gameplay. Always add to the gameplay, do not remove from the gameplay and the changes made to soulbeast made it a boring 1 button class. A dumbed down version that I feel has the laziest gameplay among all the other classes. And what did the change do? It made people pick ranger. Ranger is fine where it is. It is strong against certain classes and weak against other. The only problem I have with ranger is the high utility of the greatsword. It has got damage, escape a block and a stun/recharge and in the hands of a skilled player, it is very hard to pin the ranger and take it down. But that is fine because a ranger is not really good at holding points and it is not a strong dueling class. A ranger is a class that applies constant pressure and I feel that it has a place in the meta. Do not nerf it into oblivion because people are too busy chasing rangers around the map instead of capping points. And as rangers are a pet class, it is important that the pets are seen as threats and not just random minis following the ranger around. The only change I would suggest is to increase the cd for pet revival from 60 secs to 300 seconds. Good pet management must be required which I feel is being neglected currently.

A top 10 player with God tier pet management can have its pets be killed by silver tier players on burn guard, sage weaver, sage brand, etc... and you're suggesting that a top 10 player should have the pet go on CD for 5 minutes because someone decided to drop a burn on node?

Pets cannot be condi cleared... cant dodge... and pets of concern have 16k hp with 1.6k armor (and that's when traited)...

This is absolutely bonkers of a suggestion.

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@Tazer.2157 said:They are the same people who said the tradeoff to the soulbeast is okay. I am sorry but when balance takes precedence over fun and engaging gameplay, I would not consider that good advice to listen to. Any change to gameplay must be made so that it improves the gameplay. Always add to the gameplay, do not remove from the gameplay and the changes made to soulbeast made it a boring 1 button class. A dumbed down version that I feel has the laziest gameplay among all the other classes. And what did the change do? It made people pick ranger. Ranger is fine where it is. It is strong against certain classes and weak against other. The only problem I have with ranger is the high utility of the greatsword. It has got damage, escape a block and a stun/recharge and in the hands of a skilled player, it is very hard to pin the ranger and take it down. But that is fine because a ranger is not really good at holding points and it is not a strong dueling class. A ranger is a class that applies constant pressure and I feel that it has a place in the meta. Do not nerf it into oblivion because people are too busy chasing rangers around the map instead of capping points. And as rangers are a pet class, it is important that the pets are seen as threats and not just random minis following the ranger around. The only change I would suggest is to increase the cd for pet revival from 60 secs to 300 seconds. Good pet management must be required which I feel is being neglected currently.

60 seconds is already insanely long to get locked out of pet swapping. 5 minutes absolutely ridiculous. So if our pets, which can't dodge or condi clear, that our builds rely on, die, that means we're completely useless for half the match if the enemy decides to keep us in combat?

No other class gets locked out for this long when the enemy decides to deal with their class mechanic. 60 seconds being shut out from boons, utility, condi clear, and offensive pressure is already a very significant disadvantage.

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Greetings Anet, you promised consistent fixes if something is clearly broken and Ranger/pets are currently busted beyond imagining not to mention rangers sustain with extremelly low cooldowns on greatsword and there almost innate ability to be halfway across the map if things get rough.

I can literally see no drawback in playing ranger atm.

Even the high end well skilled ranger players acknoledge that the class is indeed very broken currently.

You promised fixes if there was a clear and obvious problem, Ranger and Necro are both busted, so the ball is in you're court.

You have not delivered thus far, lets hope our faith in you was not misplaced.

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@dronte.3416 said:Lmao calling out Maul as the only problem. Take a look at how the bird hits, for example. Pet coefficients are f* up right now.

Btw both core nec and core ranger needs a nerf (focusing on pets)Wait sorry I changed my mind, I switched to core ranger (havent played for like 2 years) and I am climbing as f

Anet please dont nerf thx

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@Poledra Val.1490 said:Greetings Anet, you promised consistent fixes if something is clearly broken and Ranger/pets are currently busted beyond imagining not to mention rangers sustain with extremelly low cooldowns on greatsword and there almost innate ability to be halfway across the map if things get rough.

I can literally see no drawback in playing ranger atm.

Even the high end well skilled ranger players acknoledge that the class is indeed very broken currently.

You promised fixes if there was a clear and obvious problem, Ranger and Necro are both busted, so the ball is in you're court.

You have not delivered thus far, lets hope our faith in you was not misplaced.

Drawbacks:

  1. Birds/Tigers actually explode when focused at all. And then 50% of the Core Ranger's damage output is on a 60s CD.
  2. Can't peel/disengage for #$%^. When 2v1 focused by competent players at all, it dies. <- This is the first big reason why Core Ranger is not viable for tournament, because it lacks the disengage play required to stay alive long enough to do anything at all, in higher tiered play environments.

The 2nd reason why Core Ranger or Soulbeast is not viable for tournament, is because the majority of the bell curve or bellow community always gets it nerfed from being able to do so. Let me explain something to you very carefully. Ok so all of the objects that have been placed in the pvp maps, those were meant to be used for LOS and positioning. These are mechanics designed into the game that were meant to be used against Longbows and Rifles and Shortbows and all ranged projectiles. However, bell curve and bellow players ignore this. They are the types of players who walk into the middle of Eternal Coliseum mid and stand there on the node while a Deadeye is shooting at them, and completely ignore the 4 pillars and the boxes around the node. When they die to the DE or a Ranger, they come into this forum and complain about how OP high the damage is. Higher tiered players above the bell curve wouldn't let that happen. 1 - They have good map awareness and would position themselves with an object in between themselves and the ranged attacker before he even arrives to the team fight. 2 - If they were caught unaware which does happen sometimes, they quickly react an begin to LOS.

So what we are really talking about here, is the point where players rise from ignoring LOS mechanics, to utilizing them. Rangers are very OP in environments where players ignore LOS mechanics, and this is where all of the complaining is coming from. However, in environments where players do utilize these mechanics often and know how to exploit them, the effectiveness of Ranger drops through the floor to where it is no longer viable amongst high tiered play. <- This is because the large bulk of the community complains about how high powered ranged is, as they choose to ignore built in game mechanics that were meant to be used to deal with the ranged. And then Arenanet listens to this bulk of QQ, and Ranger gets balanced around that, instead of around high tiered players who actually utilize all the mechanics granted to them.

Ranger is a weird class due to the difference in effectiveness between bellow bell curve and above bell curve for the above reasons ^ Ranger is very strong against bad players, but Ranger is just bad against good players. Unfortunately for all of the reasons described, Arenanet struggles to find a cherry sweet spot to settle the balance so that it works for everyone.

Pretty much sums it up.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Poledra Val.1490 said:Greetings Anet, you promised consistent fixes if something is clearly broken and Ranger/pets are currently busted beyond imagining not to mention rangers sustain with extremelly low cooldowns on greatsword and there almost innate ability to be halfway across the map if things get rough.

I can literally see no drawback in playing ranger atm.

Even the high end well skilled ranger players acknoledge that the class is indeed very broken currently.

You promised fixes if there was a clear and obvious problem, Ranger and Necro are both busted, so the ball is in you're court.

You have not delivered thus far, lets hope our faith in you was not misplaced.

Drawbacks:
  1. Birds/Tigers actually explode when focused at all. And then 50% of the Core Ranger's damage output is on a 60s CD.
  2. Can't peel/disengage for #$%^. When 2v1 focused by competent players at all, it dies. <- This is the first big reason why Core Ranger is not viable for tournament, because it lacks the disengage play required to stay alive long enough to do anything at all, in higher tiered play environments.

The 2nd reason why Core Ranger or Soulbeast is not viable for tournament, is because the majority of the bell curve or bellow community always gets it nerfed from being able to do so. Let me explain something to you very carefully. Ok so all of the objects that have been placed in the pvp maps, those were meant to be used for LOS and positioning. These are mechanics designed into the game that were meant to be used against Longbows and Rifles and Shortbows and all ranged projectiles. However, bell curve and bellow players ignore this. They are the types of players who walk into the middle of Eternal Coliseum mid and stand there on the node while a Deadeye is shooting at them, and completely ignore the 4 pillars and the boxes around the node. When they die to the DE or a Ranger, they come into this forum and complain about how OP high the damage is. Higher tiered players above the bell curve wouldn't let that happen. 1 - They have good map awareness and would position themselves with an object in between themselves and the ranged attacker before he even arrives to the team fight. 2 - If they were caught unaware which does happen sometimes, they quickly react an begin to LOS.

So what we are really talking about here, is the point where players rise from ignoring LOS mechanics, to utilizing them. Rangers are very OP in environments where players ignore LOS mechanics, and this is where all of the complaining is coming from. However, in environments where players do utilize these mechanics often and know how to exploit them, the effectiveness of Ranger drops through the floor to where it is no longer viable amongst high tiered play. <- This is because the large bulk of the community complains about how high powered ranged is, as they choose to ignore built in game mechanics that were meant to be used to deal with the ranged. And then Arenanet listens to this bulk of QQ, and Ranger gets balanced around that, instead of around high tiered players who actually utilize all the mechanics granted to them.

Ranger is a weird class due to the difference in effectiveness between bellow bell curve and above bell curve for the above reasons ^ Ranger is very strong against bad players, but Ranger is just bad against good players. Unfortunately for all of the reasons described, Arenanet struggles to find a cherry sweet spot to settle the balance so that it works for everyone.

Pretty much sums it up.

Rangers have plenty of disengage? Half the time it feels like most of my team is chasing some ranger across the map. I mean sure it isn’t as good as a thief, but it has plenty of disengage. Soulbeast especially if you run a bird. Obviously it isn’t as good as thief or some of the warrior builds but it’s still more than enough. Even more than Mesmer right now unless the mes is running portal, which is just a waste in solo queue.

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I'm just being honest here but : Pets do too much for their Profession.

Every Profession has their special mechanics, things to play around.Ranger straight up has a semi automated beat-stick baked into their class and passes it off as a legitimate Profession mechanic.

It's almost as bad as Necromancer on the level of simplicity.As many have mentioned, a Ranger vs a bad player is GGEZ but a Ranger vs a good player is a bad joke.Necromancers are the exact same.

Difference is that Necromancer actually has to not be AFK to do that crazy stuff they can pull off, meanwhile Pets can be played semi AFK and still manage to pressure someone.

Just my two cents guys, don't have to agree with me here.

Just throwing it out there that Engi Turret was nerfed many times for some reason while automated Pets still exist, performing several times more than Turrets or Minions.

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@"cptaylor.2670" said:

@"Poledra Val.1490" said:Greetings Anet, you promised consistent fixes if something is clearly broken and Ranger/pets are currently busted beyond imagining not to mention rangers sustain with extremelly low cooldowns on greatsword and there almost innate ability to be halfway across the map if things get rough.

I can literally see no drawback in playing ranger atm.

Even the high end well skilled ranger players acknoledge that the class is indeed very broken currently.

You promised fixes if there was a clear and obvious problem, Ranger and Necro are both busted, so the ball is in you're court.

You have not delivered thus far, lets hope our faith in you was not misplaced.

Drawbacks:
  1. Birds/Tigers actually explode when focused at all. And then 50% of the Core Ranger's damage output is on a 60s CD.
  2. Can't peel/disengage for #$%^. When 2v1 focused by competent players at all, it dies. <- This is the first big reason why Core Ranger is not viable for tournament, because it lacks the disengage play required to stay alive long enough to do anything at all, in higher tiered play environments.

The 2nd reason why Core Ranger or Soulbeast is not viable for tournament, is because the majority of the bell curve or bellow community always gets it nerfed from being able to do so. Let me explain something to you very carefully. Ok so all of the objects that have been placed in the pvp maps, those were meant to be used for LOS and positioning. These are mechanics designed into the game that were meant to be used against Longbows and Rifles and Shortbows and all ranged projectiles. However, bell curve and bellow players ignore this. They are the types of players who walk into the middle of Eternal Coliseum mid and stand there on the node while a Deadeye is shooting at them, and completely ignore the 4 pillars and the boxes around the node. When they die to the DE or a Ranger, they come into this forum and complain about how OP high the damage is. Higher tiered players above the bell curve wouldn't let that happen. 1 - They have good map awareness and would position themselves with an object in between themselves and the ranged attacker before he even arrives to the team fight. 2 - If they were caught unaware which does happen sometimes, they quickly react an begin to LOS.

So what we are really talking about here, is the point where players rise from ignoring LOS mechanics, to utilizing them. Rangers are very OP in environments where players ignore LOS mechanics, and this is where all of the complaining is coming from. However, in environments where players do utilize these mechanics often and know how to exploit them, the effectiveness of Ranger drops through the floor to where it is no longer viable amongst high tiered play. <- This is because the large bulk of the community complains about how high powered ranged is, as they choose to ignore built in game mechanics that were meant to be used to deal with the ranged. And then Arenanet listens to this bulk of QQ, and Ranger gets balanced around that, instead of around high tiered players who actually utilize all the mechanics granted to them.

Ranger is a weird class due to the difference in effectiveness between bellow bell curve and above bell curve for the above reasons ^ Ranger is very strong against bad players, but Ranger is just bad against good players. Unfortunately for all of the reasons described, Arenanet struggles to find a cherry sweet spot to settle the balance so that it works for everyone.

Pretty much sums it up.

Rangers have plenty of disengage? Half the time it feels like most of my team is chasing some ranger across the map. I mean sure it isn’t as good as a thief, but it has plenty of disengage. Soulbeast especially if you run a bird. Obviously it isn’t as good as thief or some of the warrior builds but it’s still more than enough. Even more than Mesmer right now unless the mes is running portal, which is just a waste in solo queue.

That is misinformed. An example of when the community takes 2 or 3 different build structures that a class can run, and then in their mind they cram it all together and believe that there is this one build that is doing everything.

  1. Core Ranger gets only this for disengage - Greatsword #3 Swoop - Longbow #3 stealth - And then super speed on Quick Zephyr if you want to count that. No one wastes time with Smokescale field stealthing on Core Ranger because there isn't enough leap/blasts on Core to make it effective. In no way does Core Ranger have anywhere near the disengage factor as: Warrior/Spellbreaker with multiple movement skills and ability to ignore immobilization - No where even near the disengage as any Thief build - Doesn't even compare to the disengage of Soulbeast - Dude what? Core Ranger has no where even NEAR the stealth & disengage factor of a Mesmer/Mirage, not even close. You're talking ground target teleports, stealth skills that don't require hitting a target to use, and in some cases super speed on just about every utility used. As much as anti-ranger advocates would want to argue this, the Core Ranger's disengage factor is more on par with a Reaper honestly.
  2. Soulbeast is where there is disengage factor. And no, it isn't coming from bird swoop. The swoop was nerfed into a much higher CD than it was before. 25s cool down non traited, 18s with trait, that's terrible in merge for the lack of other utility on the bird. Soulbeasts aren't aiming at big bird autos. They are aiming for utility in merge play. If a Soulbeast has great disengage, it is using Rock Gazelle F2, which is an equal distance traversed to swoop "1200 range" and on only a 12s CD. The Gazelle also offers CC, Worldy Impact, and an F1 skill that hits hard & fast easy to land. Regardless, the Soulbeast can GS3Swoop into Gazelle or Bird F2 1200 range into LB3 stealth into Smokescale field 2x leaps & blast from Clarion = actual stealth uptime worth using = real disengage factor, enough to shake things like Heralds & DP Thieves & Mesmers. However, the Soulbeast cannot stay and brawl in the same way that a Core Ranger can in 1v1s because the Soulbeast has to run primarily DPS traits/utilities. It can't take hits like Core Ranger to be able to stand on a node. The Soulbeast either kills fast or gets killed fast or must run. Only rarely does it have opportune moments to stay in one place for very long to brawl, because it straight loses to other metas where the players are of same skill, and it gets focused immediately when other players see they have an opportunity to attack a DPS spec. Even if the Soulbeast is of high skill factor, to be able to survive he'll be kiting off node and losing that node just as quickly as he took it.

So understand that there are two very different specs being ran here, with two very different roles:

  • Core Ranger - It's tanky. It's good in 1v1 side node fights where pets have more realistic survivability. Terrible in team fights where AoE DPS is being tossed all over because pets explode too fast to be utilized. Good in solo queue at bell curve or bellow. Bad in high tiers because people don't fall for pet gimmicks and coordinated DPS output is way way way too high for pet sustain to remain practical, or even the Core Ranger's limited ability to kite for that matter. This build is just a gimmick that works well in solo for side nodding against around bell curve opponent teams who haven't the coordination to know how to deal with it. Rather than +ing against it, players often don't communicate and then they begin trying to ignore it rather than kill it. This has always been the case with strong side node presence in yolo queue, Core Ranger is no different other than the psychological effect that the pet makes people feel like they are being 2v1'd.
  • Soulbeast - Great mobility/disengage, 2nd only to Thief or a Herald that is chasing. Still excellent DPS + potential, though most of it is single strike oriented. It's just as bad as Core Ranger in team fights for different reasons. It can side node in 1v1 if the Soulbeast player is good and knows what he's doing, however it is mandatory to play primarily off node against most of the dominant bruiser classes including Core Rangers, because it cannot afford to take hits. So the Soulbeast is not a primary node presence, but rather something more akin to a DP Thief with a longbow.

Where a Core Ranger could hold a node against anything 1v1 but die when he gets 2v1'd, the opposite takes effect for Soulbeast. The Soulbeast can't hold a node for @#$% but it can run and survive 2v1s. Core Ranger is a Side Node duelist. Soulbeast is a DPS +.

They aren't the same thing, they don't do the same things, they aren't the same build.

@"cptaylor.2670 " Sorry, this wasn't all aimed at you. Just needed to get this off my chest in light off all this bellow the bell curve amalgamated Ranger complaint lately. People can complain about and make w/e suggestions they want as far as I'm concerned. I just want to see them doing it with accurate understanding.

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@Yasai.3549 said:I'm just being honest here but : Pets do too much for their Profession.

Every Profession has their special mechanics, things to play around.Ranger straight up has a semi automated beat-stick baked into their class and passes it off as a legitimate Profession mechanic.

It's almost as bad as Necromancer on the level of simplicity.As many have mentioned, a Ranger vs a bad player is GGEZ but a Ranger vs a good player is a bad joke.Necromancers are the exact same.

Difference is that Necromancer actually has to not be AFK to do that crazy stuff they can pull off, meanwhile Pets can be played semi AFK and still manage to pressure someone.

Just my two cents guys, don't have to agree with me here.

Just throwing it out there that Engi Turret was nerfed many times for some reason while automated Pets still exist, performing several times more than Turrets or Minions.

Turrets are utility skills.

Pets are a class kit, like Reaper Shroud or Photon Forge or Firebrand Tomes.

I was wondering if maybe the pets were intended to be effective?

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:I'm just being honest here but : Pets do too much for their Profession.

Every Profession has their special mechanics, things to play around.Ranger straight up has a semi automated beat-stick baked into their class and passes it off as a legitimate Profession mechanic.

It's almost as bad as Necromancer on the level of simplicity.As many have mentioned, a Ranger vs a bad player is GGEZ but a Ranger vs a good player is a bad joke.Necromancers are the exact same.

Difference is that Necromancer actually has to not be AFK to do that crazy stuff they can pull off, meanwhile Pets can be played semi AFK and still manage to pressure someone.

Just my two cents guys, don't have to agree with me here.

Just throwing it out there that Engi Turret was nerfed many times for some reason while automated Pets still exist, performing several times more than Turrets or Minions.

Turrets are utility skills.

Pets are a class kit, like Reaper Shroud or Photon Forge or Firebrand Tomes.

I was wondering if maybe the pets were intended to be effective?

And you can only have one of them active at the same time not five like turrets or minions.

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@Axl.8924 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Except it isn't necro mains asking for ranger to be addressed, well known top players in EU say it's broken, you can see them saying it in Sindrener's and Boyce's stream. You can also see these 2 players saying that they don't want ANet to hammer it down to useless but that it needs a lot of adjustments, small in size but a lot of them.

Also not seeing them in WvW? Are you blind or do you just choo with a tag all the time? There are loads of rangers dotted around adding into small fights or worse still adding into fights at duel spots.

Your wrong though, I'm a necro main and I defended ranger a lot, heck I've even defended mesmers.

There are people out there who don't care what happens to other classes but some of us do care because we play multiple classes for fun. We aren't competitive like you guys, so our most important aspect is that a class is enjoyable, in fact, I will probably never be competitive ever.

@Revolution.5409 said:Necros are preparing for the huge nerfs that awaits them with the next patch.

Yes, birds and cats will be nerfed and it is also fine, but also complaining about the rest of the Ranger profession at this point is either a L2P problem or there are many trolls who want to see Ranger also out of the competitive scenario after Druid and Slb.

We are ready to be deleted from SPVP you mean yeah its going to happen, maybe even WVW, and back to necro mains complaining about being free kills and always over nerfed.

I'm wrong? How am I wrong? I said top players and streamers like Sindrener and Boyce are also asking for ranger to be addressed and they do say how broken it is on their streams. Someone else made the presupposition that it was necromancers asking for nerfs, coincidentally the guy mentioned below, direct your comment at him.

As for fun, it's fun for 1 person to never have to sweat in a fight, have all chances to win and not have to think too hard about what the enemy is doing, not so fun for the person on the other end who can't mess up once or they lose automatically.

@Arheundel.6451 I literally named them and the rest of what you said had no relevance to what I stated, they're saying it's overtuned in both damage and survivability and it needs toning down. They and I also don't want to see it Chrono'd just a lot of little changes all over to bring it down.

@Tazer.2157 Agreed about greatsword, don't agree about pet death CD, that would be very punishing especially against condi builds that murder pets super easy. Ranger needs small adjustments across the board, maybe 1 or 2 major hits on damage mods but it's going to be a slow process or it'll be chrono'd.

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@apharma.3741 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Except it isn't necro mains asking for ranger to be addressed, well known top players in EU say it's broken, you can see them saying it in Sindrener's and Boyce's stream. You can also see these 2 players saying that they don't want ANet to hammer it down to useless but that it needs a lot of adjustments, small in size but a lot of them.

Also not seeing them in WvW? Are you blind or do you just choo with a tag all the time? There are loads of rangers dotted around adding into small fights or worse still adding into fights at duel spots.

Your wrong though, I'm a necro main and I defended ranger a lot, heck I've even defended mesmers.

There are people out there who don't care what happens to other classes but some of us do care because we play multiple classes for fun. We aren't competitive like you guys, so our most important aspect is that a class is enjoyable, in fact, I will probably never be competitive ever.

@Revolution.5409 said:Necros are preparing for the huge nerfs that awaits them with the next patch.

Yes, birds and cats will be nerfed and it is also fine, but also complaining about the rest of the Ranger profession at this point is either a L2P problem or there are many trolls who want to see Ranger also out of the competitive scenario after Druid and Slb.

We are ready to be deleted from SPVP you mean yeah its going to happen, maybe even WVW, and back to necro mains complaining about being free kills and always over nerfed.

I'm wrong? How am I wrong? I said top players and streamers like Sindrener and Boyce are also asking for ranger to be addressed and they do say how broken it is on their streams. Someone else made the presupposition that it was necromancers asking for nerfs, coincidentally the guy mentioned below, direct your comment at him.

As for fun, it's fun for 1 person to never have to sweat in a fight, have all chances to win and not have to think too hard about what the enemy is doing, not so fun for the person on the other end who can't mess up once or they lose automatically.

@Arheundel.6451 I literally named them and the rest of what you said had no relevance to what I stated, they're saying it's overtuned in both damage and survivability and it needs toning down. They and I also don't want to see it Chrono'd just a lot of little changes all over to bring it down.

@Tazer.2157 Agreed about greatsword, don't agree about pet death CD, that would be very punishing especially against condi builds that murder pets super easy. Ranger needs small adjustments across the board, maybe 1 or 2 major hits on damage mods but it's going to be a slow process or it'll be chrono'd.

NVm i take it back misread something.

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@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Except it isn't necro mains asking for ranger to be addressed, well known top players in EU say it's broken, you can see them saying it in Sindrener's and Boyce's stream. You can also see these 2 players saying that they don't want ANet to hammer it down to useless but that it needs a lot of adjustments, small in size but a lot of them.

Also not seeing them in WvW? Are you blind or do you just choo with a tag all the time? There are loads of rangers dotted around adding into small fights or worse still adding into fights at duel spots.

Your wrong though, I'm a necro main and I defended ranger a lot, heck I've even defended mesmers.

There are people out there who don't care what happens to other classes but some of us do care because we play multiple classes for fun. We aren't competitive like you guys, so our most important aspect is that a class is enjoyable, in fact, I will probably never be competitive ever.

@Revolution.5409 said:Necros are preparing for the huge nerfs that awaits them with the next patch.

Yes, birds and cats will be nerfed and it is also fine, but also complaining about the rest of the Ranger profession at this point is either a L2P problem or there are many trolls who want to see Ranger also out of the competitive scenario after Druid and Slb.

We are ready to be deleted from SPVP you mean yeah its going to happen, maybe even WVW, and back to necro mains complaining about being free kills and always over nerfed.

I'm wrong? How am I wrong? I said top players and streamers like Sindrener and Boyce are also asking for ranger to be addressed and they do say how broken it is on their streams. Someone else made the presupposition that it was necromancers asking for nerfs, coincidentally the guy mentioned below, direct your comment at him.

As for fun, it's fun for 1 person to never have to sweat in a fight, have all chances to win and not have to think too hard about what the enemy is doing, not so fun for the person on the other end who can't mess up once or they lose automatically.

@Arheundel.6451 I literally named them and the rest of what you said had no relevance to what I stated, they're saying it's overtuned in both damage and survivability and it needs toning down. They and I also don't want to see it Chrono'd just a lot of little changes all over to bring it down.

@Tazer.2157 Agreed about greatsword, don't agree about pet death CD, that would be very punishing especially against condi builds that murder pets super easy. Ranger needs small adjustments across the board, maybe 1 or 2 major hits on damage mods but it's going to be a slow process or it'll be chrono'd.

NVm i take it back misread something.

No probs, we all do sometimes. I hope they don't nerf necro too much.

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@apharma.3741 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Except it isn't necro mains asking for ranger to be addressed, well known top players in EU say it's broken, you can see them saying it in Sindrener's and Boyce's stream. You can also see these 2 players saying that they don't want ANet to hammer it down to useless but that it needs a lot of adjustments, small in size but a lot of them.

Also not seeing them in WvW? Are you blind or do you just choo with a tag all the time? There are loads of rangers dotted around adding into small fights or worse still adding into fights at duel spots.

Your wrong though, I'm a necro main and I defended ranger a lot, heck I've even defended mesmers.

There are people out there who don't care what happens to other classes but some of us do care because we play multiple classes for fun. We aren't competitive like you guys, so our most important aspect is that a class is enjoyable, in fact, I will probably never be competitive ever.

@Revolution.5409 said:Necros are preparing for the huge nerfs that awaits them with the next patch.

Yes, birds and cats will be nerfed and it is also fine, but also complaining about the rest of the Ranger profession at this point is either a L2P problem or there are many trolls who want to see Ranger also out of the competitive scenario after Druid and Slb.

We are ready to be deleted from SPVP you mean yeah its going to happen, maybe even WVW, and back to necro mains complaining about being free kills and always over nerfed.

I'm wrong? How am I wrong? I said top players and streamers like Sindrener and Boyce are also asking for ranger to be addressed and they do say how broken it is on their streams. Someone else made the presupposition that it was necromancers asking for nerfs, coincidentally the guy mentioned below, direct your comment at him.

As for fun, it's fun for 1 person to never have to sweat in a fight, have all chances to win and not have to think too hard about what the enemy is doing, not so fun for the person on the other end who can't mess up once or they lose automatically.

@Arheundel.6451 I literally named them and the rest of what you said had no relevance to what I stated, they're saying it's overtuned in both damage and survivability and it needs toning down. They and I also don't want to see it Chrono'd just a lot of little changes all over to bring it down.

@Tazer.2157 Agreed about greatsword, don't agree about pet death CD, that would be very punishing especially against condi builds that murder pets super easy. Ranger needs small adjustments across the board, maybe 1 or 2 major hits on damage mods but it's going to be a slow process or it'll be chrono'd.

Not trying to argue with you, serious question:

Are these streamers saying that Core Ranger is OP or that it is broken as in, something is not working right?

Even I've been pointing in threads that something is up with pet damage. They are hitting harder than the coefficients say they should. And no, I don't mean marks mods and all that. I'm talking even with no buffs or marks mods active, the pets seem to be ignoring toughness or possibly a portion of their damage equation is hitting as life steal, bypassing toughness/prot values. I first noticed it while 1v1ing @"Bossun.2046" and my pets even with no boons or marks mods on, were always hitting harder than the actual Ranger's Rapid Fires & Mauls, which according to coefficient UI display, should definitely be hitting harder than the pets.

So in my finely worded description of the issue, I would say that: "Core Ranger/Soulbeast is not OP, but something is definitely wonky with pet damage and needs to be looked into."

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@Yasai.3549 said:

And you can only have one of them active at the same time not five like turrets or minions.

A single pet easily outclasses 5 turrets though.And Minions are essentially a pile of useless meat which serves only to hinder and cripple.

Yeah they are a class mechanic...Do you want only 1 skill in Death Shroud? Or only switch one skill with an ele attunement at the time?

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Except it isn't necro mains asking for ranger to be addressed, well known top players in EU say it's broken, you can see them saying it in Sindrener's and Boyce's stream. You can also see these 2 players saying that they don't want ANet to hammer it down to useless but that it needs a lot of adjustments, small in size but a lot of them.

Also not seeing them in WvW? Are you blind or do you just choo with a tag all the time? There are loads of rangers dotted around adding into small fights or worse still adding into fights at duel spots.

Your wrong though, I'm a necro main and I defended ranger a lot, heck I've even defended mesmers.

There are people out there who don't care what happens to other classes but some of us do care because we play multiple classes for fun. We aren't competitive like you guys, so our most important aspect is that a class is enjoyable, in fact, I will probably never be competitive ever.

@Revolution.5409 said:Necros are preparing for the huge nerfs that awaits them with the next patch.

Yes, birds and cats will be nerfed and it is also fine, but also complaining about the rest of the Ranger profession at this point is either a L2P problem or there are many trolls who want to see Ranger also out of the competitive scenario after Druid and Slb.

We are ready to be deleted from SPVP you mean yeah its going to happen, maybe even WVW, and back to necro mains complaining about being free kills and always over nerfed.

I'm wrong? How am I wrong? I said top players and streamers like Sindrener and Boyce are also asking for ranger to be addressed and they do say how broken it is on their streams. Someone else made the presupposition that it was necromancers asking for nerfs, coincidentally the guy mentioned below, direct your comment at him.

As for fun, it's fun for 1 person to never have to sweat in a fight, have all chances to win and not have to think too hard about what the enemy is doing, not so fun for the person on the other end who can't mess up once or they lose automatically.

@Arheundel.6451 I literally named them and the rest of what you said had no relevance to what I stated, they're saying it's overtuned in both damage and survivability and it needs toning down. They and I also don't want to see it Chrono'd just a lot of little changes all over to bring it down.

@Tazer.2157 Agreed about greatsword, don't agree about pet death CD, that would be very punishing especially against condi builds that murder pets super easy. Ranger needs small adjustments across the board, maybe 1 or 2 major hits on damage mods but it's going to be a slow process or it'll be chrono'd.

Not trying to argue with you, serious question:

Are these streamers saying that Core Ranger is OP or that it is broken as in, something is not working right?

Even I've been pointing in threads that something is up with pet damage. They are hitting harder than the coefficients say they should. And no, I don't mean marks mods and all that. I'm talking even with no buffs or marks mods active, the pets seem to be ignoring toughness or possibly a portion of their damage equation is hitting as life steal, bypassing toughness/prot values. I first noticed it while 1v1ing @"Bossun.2046" and my pets even with no boons or marks mods on, were always hitting harder than the actual Ranger's Rapid Fires & Mauls, which according to coefficient UI display, should definitely be hitting harder than the pets.

So in my finely worded description of the issue, I would say that: "Core Ranger/Soulbeast is not OP, but something is definitely wonky with pet damage and needs to be looked into."

idk I just hit different golems with both pet (owl and tiger) and maul and there doesn't seem to be a bug with pet damage and armor interaction.

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@Erzian.5218 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Except it isn't necro mains asking for ranger to be addressed, well known top players in EU say it's broken, you can see them saying it in Sindrener's and Boyce's stream. You can also see these 2 players saying that they don't want ANet to hammer it down to useless but that it needs a lot of adjustments, small in size but a lot of them.

Also not seeing them in WvW? Are you blind or do you just choo with a tag all the time? There are loads of rangers dotted around adding into small fights or worse still adding into fights at duel spots.

Your wrong though, I'm a necro main and I defended ranger a lot, heck I've even defended mesmers.

There are people out there who don't care what happens to other classes but some of us do care because we play multiple classes for fun. We aren't competitive like you guys, so our most important aspect is that a class is enjoyable, in fact, I will probably never be competitive ever.

@Revolution.5409 said:Necros are preparing for the huge nerfs that awaits them with the next patch.

Yes, birds and cats will be nerfed and it is also fine, but also complaining about the rest of the Ranger profession at this point is either a L2P problem or there are many trolls who want to see Ranger also out of the competitive scenario after Druid and Slb.

We are ready to be deleted from SPVP you mean yeah its going to happen, maybe even WVW, and back to necro mains complaining about being free kills and always over nerfed.

I'm wrong? How am I wrong? I said top players and streamers like Sindrener and Boyce are also asking for ranger to be addressed and they do say how broken it is on their streams. Someone else made the presupposition that it was necromancers asking for nerfs, coincidentally the guy mentioned below, direct your comment at him.

As for fun, it's fun for 1 person to never have to sweat in a fight, have all chances to win and not have to think too hard about what the enemy is doing, not so fun for the person on the other end who can't mess up once or they lose automatically.

@Arheundel.6451 I literally named them and the rest of what you said had no relevance to what I stated, they're saying it's overtuned in both damage and survivability and it needs toning down. They and I also don't want to see it Chrono'd just a lot of little changes all over to bring it down.

@Tazer.2157 Agreed about greatsword, don't agree about pet death CD, that would be very punishing especially against condi builds that murder pets super easy. Ranger needs small adjustments across the board, maybe 1 or 2 major hits on damage mods but it's going to be a slow process or it'll be chrono'd.

Not trying to argue with you, serious question:

Are these streamers saying that Core Ranger is OP or that it is broken as in, something is not working right?

Even I've been pointing in threads that something is up with pet damage. They are hitting harder than the coefficients say they should. And no, I don't mean marks mods and all that. I'm talking even with no buffs or marks mods active, the pets seem to be ignoring toughness or possibly a portion of their damage equation is hitting as life steal, bypassing toughness/prot values. I first noticed it while 1v1ing @"Bossun.2046" and my pets even with no boons or marks mods on, were always hitting harder than the actual Ranger's Rapid Fires & Mauls, which according to coefficient UI display, should definitely be hitting harder than the pets.

So in my finely worded description of the issue, I would say that: "Core Ranger/Soulbeast is not OP, but something is definitely wonky with pet damage and needs to be looked into."

idk I just hit different golems with both pet (owl and tiger) and maul and there doesn't seem to be a bug with pet damage and armor interaction.

You need to be attacking players who are stacking toughness and have prot buff on. The golems only have "armor" value.

You'll see what I mean when you start attacking dudes wearing demolisher/resistance with prot buffs. Something is off with it. In that case scenario, I see my no boon no marks mod Mauls landing 10% of their health bar, and then some pet with no boons no marks mods chunking 25% of their health bar in one go. And yes, both the Maul and the pet F2 are both critical hitting.

It doesn't seem to happen all of the time. It seems to be something odd that when it happens, it stays active until you change maps or end a game. I was also wondering if what may be happening is that the marks mods aren't turning off on the pet when they are supposed to. what I mean is, say MOC was on the pet and after the pet attacked, the MOC should deactivate, and although the UI indicates that it did, maybe the MOC +50% is stuck in the pet's equation somehow and does not deactive. That would certainly explain what I have been seeing from time to time, as well as some of these seriously inflated pet damage numbers that people have been posting in screen shots lately. Like Birds dealing 5k on every auto attack. If you go in and test on a golem, you'll see that achieving those kind of numbers on a Ranger pet Is virtually impossible to do, yet we are seeing more and more screen shots of this stuff happening during random bell curve or bellow games, where I know for a fact that there isn't enough coordinated pet buffing going on to be able to achieve numbers like that.

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@Miellyn.6847 said:

Yeah they are a class mechanic...Do you want only 1 skill in Death Shroud? Or only switch one skill with an ele attunement at the time?

What's yur point?Make Turrets and Minions Profession mechanics then, so Turret Engi and Necro MM can have utility skills too.

Necro MM : 3 weaponsets and no utilities.Engi Turrets : 1 Weapon set, 5 toolbelt skills and no utilitiesCore Ranger : 2 weapon sets, 5 utilities, 2 pets with higher personal stats and damage than multiple Minions or Turrets combined, each pet also has their own health and own set of skills.

Also Ranger Pet AI is also significantly better than Turrets and Minions AI.

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