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Vote your favourite all-round WvW class that can do both, zerg + roaming


enkidu.5937

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After the introduction of build templates, I'm currently looking for a class with access to builds for both, zerg and roaming. Engi comes to my mind easily: Support-Scrapper + Holo. Guard seems to have as an awesome arsenal atm: Firebrand (full support or burn + side-support) + Power-DH-Trapper or Burn Core Guard. Maybe Warrior?

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@DanAlcedo.3281 said:The fact that ranger is even on the list brought tears to my eye.

Good one.

Actually I've seen a few top GvG guilds using rangers recently in their 15-20 men comps for GvGs.Elite Archaelogists (eA) definitely used them and I think Dead didn't even dodge (DED)?Not sure what their build is but they have been using the ranger's immobilize roots to seperate and focus bomb targets.I assume they can also be employed at blob level.

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Don't care if Necro is a bad roamer. It's my main and I play and enjoy all of it's specs. Usually playing Scourge or core Necro when roaming/small scale and Reaper in zergs. Of the classes I have; Necro/Engi/Ranger/Warr, Necro is the one I feel like I can do anything with.

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Guardian , although for roaming you're more likely to see people on DH due to mobility via Wings of Resolve movement trait (Soaring Devastation) because sword teleporting and Greatsword leap sometimes just aren't enough. Because scourges are rarer when roaming and most core necros don't run corrupt boon , the only major common threat is well played spellbreakers which you can facetank with condi firebrand on dire/trailblazer after damage nerfs to power builds.

Post-patch I would say engineer is in a decent spot although stunbreaks overall are weaker across all classes.Squadplay: play scrapper , even as DPS you can run med kit / elixir gun (has stunbreak) for condi clearsRoaming: It has a decent matchup against condi and power as holo , but mainly due to CC output rather than damage (the photon forge damage was cut and so was the Prime Light Beam). Scrappers with mortar or bomb kit have high pressure due to the kits not being nerfed although mortar has slow projectiles and bomb kit has a delay.

Others:

Necro has had mobility problems for roaming so I wouldn't say necro; you can sort of get around this by Traveler's runes. Pre-patch it was weak to rifle deadeyes and soulbeast rangers. While you wouldn't use Lich Form in squads it's common to see it roaming since it hasn't been nerfed.

With spellbreaker warrior post-patch you get kited a lot unless you run gimmick rifle/longbow as swap. Arcing slice still does decent damage on Greatsword and sword is intact more or less but burst on axe, hammer, dagger all are weaker. Mending is the preferred heal due to healing signet heal reductions and Might Makes Right nerfs.

With revenant it has a CC problem (lost stunbreak on legend swap) unless you run condi rev which has some mobility issues (you have leap and not much else). Couple this with stunbreaks requiring energy and templates still messing the order of utility skills. Staff 5 windup is huge and does minimal damage so staff is basically a block + condi cleanse weapon now. Pre-patch it was weak to condi mirage and sword thieves (weakness/blind/immob).

Elementalist is typically run with staff (tempest/weaver/core) in squads but for roaming unless you're full marauder not on staff or sword weaver (which gets kited and you can't weaponswap in combat) it really is better for teamfights.

Mesmer works less effective than engineer in squads for stealth. In roaming you are unlikely to see chrono, it's typically condi mirage (which has one dodge now) or core condi / power shatter.Thief doesn't work in large-scale unless you run marauder staff daredevil and are on point with positioning but works for roaming (sword pistol, dagger pistol mainly); kill potential in WvW is far lower in WvW post-patch versus trailblazer setups.With ranger you really don't want it in most squads. With the nerf to Greatsword's maul it doesn't have as much power burst potential and the condi weapons are slow ramp condis (bleed mostly).

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If you're looking for the most well-rounded class in the game it's not even a contest. It is Ele hands down.It has good builds with all damage types, essentially with all its weapons, at all scales and on all specs. It even has multiple options with different weapons and specs at the same scale, like being largely useful at large scale on both Core, Tempest and Weaver and on both staff and Dagger+X. The same goes for smaller scale, there are good builds for Sc/D, Sc/F, Sw/D, D/D etc.There is so much variety in the class so if you are looking to play one character and one character alone that is where you can get some depth. As a reminder we're talking about the most versatile class, not necessarily the best at one specific thing.

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@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:The fact that ranger is even on the list brought tears to my eye.

Good one.

I see you have a long way to go to learn the way of the ranger.Melee Soulbeast is absolutely brutal in zergs.

Video and build?

Im willing to change my mind. Im always for more diversity but nobody could proof me wrong so far.

I found the recent eA vs Late GvG video.eA is running a Druid in their comp.Perhaps only really organised and skilled groups can pull it off.But their Druid root immobilises seems pretty scary when they use it to separate targets for focus bombs.

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@Spartacus.3192 said:

@"Len.1879" said:Guardian is currently great in both roaming when utilising burning and you are a valuable and often rare asset to zergs as full support.

Id love to see a "great" solo roaming build for guardian please.

I mean... that is not really the scope of this thread, but I run [&DQEqHxAbLhkmDyYPBAF4AUgBSAFMAQQBNwE3AQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA=] with a Dire and Trailblazer mix and Balthasar runes, Sc/T + GS, for both solo and small scale roaming. If you need help with your build or have any questions regarding it, feel free to PM me.

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@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:The fact that ranger is even on the list brought tears to my eye.

Good one.

I see you have a long way to go to learn the way of the ranger.Melee Soulbeast is absolutely brutal in zergs.

Video and build?

Im willing to change my mind. Im always for more diversity but nobody could proof me wrong so far.I'm not sure if it is absolutely brutal in zergs given demands on group utility, however, I can reveal that I played alot of melee Soulbeast prepatch and it is still passable post-patch albeit not as purposeful in the lower damage environment. I used to call it "the ultimate clowning build" and by that I don't necessarily mean that I was clowning around with it but rather that it was one of the most self-sufficient builds to play solo in a larger scale environment if you had the chops to do that.

The build then was a modified sPvP boonbeast adapted to the then WvW realities of mega burst. The Ranger was one of few classes who could reliably "dual tank" by utilizing a combination of it's 100% protection trait and another tank of some kind. That's what it took to feel somewhat "tanky" in the pre-patch burst environment. So I would have one set each of Diviner and Commander gear depending on what I wanted to do. Commander would combine a protection tank with a toughness tank and add some more boontime on the runes. It would get its ferocity by picking both free-ferocity traits and still land around 200%. Diviner could either be more offensive (needing less boontime from runes and getting ferocity from the gear) or slip in a bit of a DR-tank with food and runes. Often times I would mix and match armor, weapons and jewellery from the two sets depending on how much tank a situation required and how much damage I could get away with.

The build utilizes all its traits rather effectively by making good use of both GS and Axe traits (and mightstacking with the boontime on Axes), stances and getting cleanses from survival skills. So I'd run either Stance or Survival heal, along with Stability stance, Stunbreak survival, something optional (Stance, Survival, Signet) as the third and then Wolfpack. All in all, you actually got a tank despite the balance back then and you could divebomb with ease while maintaining a good personal source of stab, cleanse and breaks as well as very nice mobility with GS, Beast and Reflex. Axes to stack might and when not being able to close distance. GS for burst damage. That sort of flexibility and having almost every button you push do one or more useful things is what makes the build good and solo-able in a group enviroment. So, clowning? Well, I'd generally use it when I wouldn't want to join a squad as I felt they were mostly clowning and/or when I couldn't muster friends to havoc together, so when the situation demanded solo havoc play, it was one of the best options out here, being self-sufficient and useful on your own. You'd essentially play it more like a Thief.

After the patch you can go full Diviner as you will be tanky enough from protection alone. The build still works the same. You may even be able to swap in a berserker GS and still be tanky enough to push your peak damage a bit. The pet nerf means that you can't really combine pets as before but Eagle (dmg and leap) and Alpine wolf (invul tank and leap) are both solid choices. So are the common pets like Smokescale (you lack blasts but your can leap-stealth yourself or setup for small groups). You can also keep an LB in your bag for OOC-swaps should the environment not let you get close enough, you won't have the full berserker burst but might-stacked Diviner is not terrible LB damage for an off-suit adaptation.

All in all, it's still a decent enough build post-patch to cloud, havoc or possibly even roam a bit on (while it doesn't excel there), the class nerfs hit it more than the damage nerfs relatively (you can still Frostbite and Maul people for half their HP) but the biggest change is actually that being able to dual-tank was a rather unique thing that isn't necessary anymore so there are more classes and builds popping up in similar roles. The environment has changed more than the build and the build itself remains pretty okay despite both damage and class nerfs.

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@DanAlcedo.3281 said:The fact that ranger is even on the list brought tears to my eye.

Good one.

i always wonder, if i get 50 rangers who know how to play together how hard i will wreck tru a massive zone blob.all these arrows flying in from all sides cus u dont need stack just massive cloud wrecking zone blob in no time im pretty sure every commander will switch map vs this.

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@reddie.5861 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:The fact that ranger is even on the list brought tears to my eye.

Good one.

i always wonder, if i get 50 rangers who know how to play together how hard i will wreck tru a massive zone blob.all these arrows flying in from all sides cus u dont need stack just massive cloud wrecking zone blob in no time im pretty sure every commander will switch map vs this.

We once fought a group with a lot of rangers in small-scale that really troubled us for a while. The tide turned rather quickly when our guards started to put up reflects.

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@reddie.5861 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:The fact that ranger is even on the list brought tears to my eye.

Good one.

i always wonder, if i get 50 rangers who know how to play together how hard i will wreck tru a massive zone blob.all these arrows flying in from all sides cus u dont need stack just massive cloud wrecking zone blob in no time im pretty sure every commander will switch map vs this.

35 melee soulbeasts, 5 heal druids and 10 pew ones would give most zergs a run for their money.

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@hobotnicax.7918 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:The fact that ranger is even on the list brought tears to my eye.

Good one.

i always wonder, if i get 50 rangers who know how to play together how hard i will wreck tru a massive zone blob.all these arrows flying in from all sides cus u dont need stack just massive cloud wrecking zone blob in no time im pretty sure every commander will switch map vs this.

35 melee soulbeasts, 5 heal druids and 10 pew ones would give most zergs a run for their money.In theory, anything can own a zerg.

Imagine 50 mantra heal greatsword mesmers. One click heals the entire stacked zerg to 100% hp from 20%. Another click instantly kill ~20-30 stacked enemies at 1200 range because they do not use a projectiles so no walls will stop it. And they have 100% uptime on stealth.

All your melee soulbeasts would be dead before they could blink.

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@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"DanAlcedo.3281" said:The fact that ranger is even on the list brought tears to my eye.

Good one.

i always wonder, if i get 50 rangers who know how to play together how hard i will wreck tru a massive zone blob.all these arrows flying in from all sides cus u dont need stack just massive cloud wrecking zone blob in no time im pretty sure every commander will switch map vs this.

35 melee soulbeasts, 5 heal druids and 10 pew ones would give most zergs a run for their money.In theory, anything can own a zerg.

Imagine 50 mantra heal greatsword mesmers. One click heals the entire stacked zerg to 100% hp from 20%. Another click instantly kill ~20-30 stacked enemies at 1200 range because they do not use a projectiles so no walls will stop it. And they have 100% uptime on stealth.

All your melee soulbeasts would be dead before they could blink.

I've seen a lot of small groups or "special occasion" zergs that are all one class more than a few times, but the one I want to see most and never have is a full Engi zerg. I want to see like at least 20 people, Scrappers, Holo's and Engi's, all comp'd up, and I want to see them wreck face.

Obviously you're very right, anything could work in theory, so I'm not saying this would be as good in practice... Still, Engi being the jack of all trades as it is, I feel like it could be pretty legit and I want to see it so bad. I could just imagine like.. A few Scrappers giving heals and perma Super Speed behind the glass core Engi's with Bomb Kit at the frontline, some Prot Holo's and DPS Scrappers up there too. They'd all be so fast and would have so much melee pressure.

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@Dawdler.8521 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:The fact that ranger is even on the list brought tears to my eye.

Good one.

i always wonder, if i get 50 rangers who know how to play together how hard i will wreck tru a massive zone blob.all these arrows flying in from all sides cus u dont need stack just massive cloud wrecking zone blob in no time im pretty sure every commander will switch map vs this.

35 melee soulbeasts, 5 heal druids and 10 pew ones would give most zergs a run for their money.In theory, anything can own a zerg.

Imagine 50 mantra heal greatsword mesmers. One click heals the entire stacked zerg to 100% hp from 20%. Another click instantly kill ~20-30 stacked enemies at 1200 range because they do not use a projectiles so no walls will stop it. And they have 100% uptime on stealth.

All your melee soulbeasts would be dead before they could blink.

Gg on the pun

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@reddie.5861 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:The fact that ranger is even on the list brought tears to my eye.

Good one.

i always wonder, if i get 50 rangers who know how to play together how hard i will wreck tru a massive zone blob.all these arrows flying in from all sides cus u dont need stack just massive cloud wrecking zone blob in no time im pretty sure every commander will switch map vs this.

You forgot the missle reflection/denial/...

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@hobotnicax.7918 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:The fact that ranger is even on the list brought tears to my eye.

Good one.

I see you have a long way to go to learn the way of the ranger.Melee Soulbeast is absolutely brutal in zergs.

I am well known for my bias for rangers. I’ve played ranger almost since the beginning of this game. It’s not as brutal as it used to be in group fighting. The nerfs have hurt it. I have switched to my burn guard as my main group/roaming class. I eat rangers for dinner after roasting them to death these days.

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@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:I've seen a lot of small groups or "special occasion" zergs that are all one class more than a few times, but the one I want to see most and never have is a full Engi zerg. I want to see like at least 20 people, Scrappers, Holo's and Engi's, all comp'd up, and I want to see them wreck face.Oh we've done that. Not been so much the last couple years, but we used to do "one class raids" for laughs. I was part of an all engie one, 50ish people.

The first couple of fights vs a 50+ meta zerg was hilarious. You think it lags in fights now? Try it with everyone bombing supply drop. When they pushed into us, they where literally like a train being flattened by a steel wall. They dropped dead where they ran. That night we also had a fight where we expanded the pirateship meta with the battleship meta. Everyone switched to mortars.

Unfortunely, humans got brains and brains can learn. A single class zerg isnt all all that flexible in the long term, because unlike theory everyone isnt synched to perfection. This was also before the engie had proper dps specs or meta healers.

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