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Guild Wars 2: Remastered


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@Ashantara.8731 said:

@Josiah.2967 said:To be honest.... I would be happy with better performance.

Upgrading hardware is no guarantee to improved performance. That shows how bad the engine is.

Yes, a better performance/CPU utilization etc and a few updated textures is all this game needs. None of this:

@GW Noob.6038 said:New high-tech engine, like Unreal Engine 4? Yes, please!

Blade & Soul is doing it...

Then go play Blade & Soul.I'm gunna...

Is there anything you
don't
want changed? More sci-fi, VR, no JPs, Unreal Engine... insane.Are you stalking me? o.O

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@Veryl.7861 said:Nonetheless there are many many people who suffer from overheating computers and low framerates still dedicated to GW2 for a reason. It's a perfect unique game with it's own lore and own way of storytelling. This could be easily solved if it was so easy to convert DX9 to DX12 Ultimate (with RTX and Ansel provided by Nvidia)Now I can't look in Anet's wallet so I don't know if it's too much to cost to buy licences for a new engine but heck.. there are even free possibilities like Unreal engine provides us nowdays.

Just a few points I'd like to mention here.

  • People who suffer from overheating problems can break down to multiple factors (dust, clogged ventilations, dried up thermal paste, background tasks using cpu power), while GW2 is CPU intensive it doesn't stress it as much as one would imagine, the game is certainly not to blame here.
  • You speak of RTX as if everyone can afford or has one, also don't forget some GW2 players are also AMD users.
  • DX12 is a dead end API being locked to 1 OS and the Xbox (which is still Win10 based), Vulkan would be a much wiser choice due to its' wider cross platform support while still offering the same level of performance.
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Only if they make it so it uses more of the graphics card and less of the processor as it uses a TON of processing power because when they made the game it was made with potato computers in mind. I think its safe to say we can move away from demanding the processor do most of the heavy lifting~

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@Hannelore.8153 said:The problem isn't the engine, this is a common misconception from players who don't know how modern computer graphics work.~SNIP~

I'd rather them put that money into polishing older content (like Central Tyria) up to expansion quality. And if anything needs a complete rewrite, I'd say its their server software because it just doesn't seem very efficient.

The server software, or more technically the software that let's them update on the fly without shutting the servers down like every other game out there is not the problem, all those problems you talk about have nothing to do with the servers...have you bothered to look at a trace route from the AWS data center to your house? That's been the problem in the past and still is to this day in most(not all) cases of lag, and the fact they don't have it housed on servers in 10 different regions of the world(only 2 I'm aware of besides the one in China) one en Europe(Germany I believe) and one on the East Coast of the U.S.(somewhere in New York).

The other thing is that you where right about, or whomever mentioned it, no one wants to wait a year or two while they completely rewrite the base engine to utilize all of today's bells and whistles(and multi-threading/multi-cores) so people can forget that idea from the get go.

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@coso.9173 said:all MMOS slowly or quickly get better graphics, and those who can't get a better PC have to sadly suck it up and can't be used as an argument for not upgrading it. if it was the case we would still be playing text only adventure games or Atari.

Just remember that not everyone can afford the latest and greatest. That's why the engine has not been updated. They have to cater to their biggest audience, the more casual gamers that might not be able to, or know how, to upgrade to a better system made for running a higher end system. If they kept the ability to use both graphics modes, old and new, then it would work out, but knowing the way most people just want them to get rid of the old and stick to the new, it would not work at all. They would alienate their more budget-conscious audience, which is the majority. I get the need and want for an updated engine to take advantage of modern hardware, but they have to find the best way to execute that without doing the above, which is not easy.

A good example was Aion that had the original, not-as-pretty older engine and the newer, but still not that optimized, pretty graphics engine. They allowed you to choose between then two and it was nice since people with older system could still play without issue and people with beefier systems could enjoy the better graphics and overall improvements. If Anet can do that, I'm sure they would, but it doesn't seem feasible and literally telling people to suck it up and spend money they don't have to appease the more minor audience seems selfish, in my opinion. This is another factor as to why some older MMOs still have an audience. While I would love an upgraded engine, at the same time, I don't want people excluded for the sake of new, shiny graphics.

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@Zaklex.6308 said:

@Hannelore.8153 said:The problem isn't the engine, this is a common misconception from players who don't know how modern computer graphics work.~SNIP~

I'd rather them put that money into polishing older content (like Central Tyria) up to expansion quality. And if anything needs a complete rewrite, I'd say its their server software because it just doesn't seem very efficient.

The server software, or more technically the software that let's them update on the fly without shutting the servers down like every other game out there is not the problem, all those problems you talk about have nothing to do with the servers...have you bothered to look at a trace route from the AWS data center to your house? That's been the problem in the past and still is to this day in most(not all) cases of lag, and the fact they don't have it housed on servers in 10 different regions of the world(only 2 I'm aware of besides the one in China) one en Europe(Germany I believe) and one on the East Coast of the U.S.(somewhere in New York).

The other thing is that you where right about, or whomever mentioned it, no one wants to wait a year or two while they completely rewrite the base engine to utilize all of today's bells and whistles(and multi-threading/multi-cores) so people can forget that idea from the get go.

ArenaNet has confirmed that problems like skill lag are server-side, and have repeatedly implemented many workarounds, like 30min cooldown on summoning items, reducing map populations (WvW got reductions just from mounts being introduced), hiding minis, etc. Its also part of why alot of skills were nerfed to no longer summon minions, such as the Guardian weapons.

The game even had server-side culling at one point because of the known deficiencies of the engine, but it was exploitable.

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Presuming Anet has metrics which shows them what hardware (and OS) people are using to play the game. They could probably require higher specs (nvidia 8800 is 13+ years old at this point) to something say 7 years old and not loose that many customers (and I wonder, if someone doesn't have the money to update their 13 year old laptop, is that person also spending much money on gems?)I'd have that with the expansion, maybe Anet can use it as a basis to spend some effort on engine improvements. Having it use multithreading effectively would be a big win for a lot of the user base, and a fairly minimal loss for those with cpus with 2 cores. However, only Anet themselves (or folks that have worked for them) really know how easy any updates are.However, I have to imagine that without some update, the game will slowly bleed out users - old users will get tired of poor performance, and new users will install the game and say 'performance sucks', and move to something that does perform well. Which long term would then not bode well for Anet or the game.

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Yeah lots of bad information here.Simply put, upgrading to DirectX12 would do nothing for performance. They would have to re-write the entire rendering pipeline to take advantage of it.

They should be doing this, and I don't understand why they aren't. This game is the only thing keeping the company floating, and they don't appear to be planning for any eventualities like when AMD and nVidia stop caring about DX9 features in their cards.

We can only hope they aren't idiots and are actually building something and just haven't told us. Maybe it will be the next expansion. It would explain why it took so long.

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That would be nice, but Anet will never do it. They can't even manage to get out new LW content properly or address QoL solutions without adding another layer of issues to the game. Remastering games is something Blizzard has more of a track record in. They should also remaster GW 1 before touching this.

If there is ever new blood in the management team and finally someone with an actual vision for the game and its longevity, this might be possible.

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  • 1 month later...

I think the idea of a remastered version along with the older version would woud great to allow people with older and newer computers to be allowed to run it. I think its great to not limit themselves to a small % of the people who play games who are running the top of the line computers. I am fortunate enough to have a computer that can run it with other modern games but there was a point starting off where I didnt. Me personally, would rather have smaller content patches and allow a remastered or updated version that would run better the only downside will be the cost in resources to get it done.

I think overall we will just end up dealing with it until a new game comes out or they surprise with the 3rd expansion being an overall updated version of the game. I think that would be the best option due to we know nothing about it and they could take that extra time to come out with a more stable and better optimized platform. I think the way GW2 is setup is the game can last for many more years by adding more living world and so on. I think dropping a GW3 so soon would be a bad thing when this game has a lot more areas and potential it could bring to the table to setup an even better foundation for the next game if there is one. My biggest complaint about GW2 compared to GW1 was I missed cross classing but it really wouldnt work well with the way this game is setup.

All we can do is wait and hope that they actually read these and take some of these ideas into consideration. I think this game has a lot of potential and is a lot of fun even with the current engine and so on.

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@"Kobi.8347" said:The games are huge cause the developers got lazy and don't compress the content to spare CPU cycles (mostly because the Xbox One and PS4 consoles have weak CPUs), there's lots of new features in both Vulkan and DirectX12 which help with assets management a lot, which show again you have no idea what you talking about.

It's not laziness. Compression means a dip in quality. Games that take large amounts of disk space but happen to be "small" content wise are huge largely because of one if not two reasons - really big texture files (talking 2k-4k here,) and lossless audio. Art assets are just memory hogs all around. It's generally understood that the average piece of computer hardware is capable of producing some pretty good sound even if they can't make full use of high quality audio files, and disk space is only becoming more cost efficient, so file size for lossless audio is considered an acceptable trade off. 2k-4k textures are still in that sketchy territory where most people aren't going to be able to run them without their frame rates sweeping the floor.

Otherwise, on the topic at hand, what really needs to happen is that Anet needs to upgrade their engine. At least Direct X 10-12 support. How their studio is set up and the funding available is the issue though. I don't expect the guys that would be coding in DX12 support to also be sculpting art assets, but they could probably be involved to some degree in event scripting. Really depends on how many hats everyone is expected to wear.

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@SinisterSlay.6973 said:Yeah lots of bad information here.Simply put, upgrading to DirectX12 would do nothing for performance. They would have to re-write the entire rendering pipeline to take advantage of it.

They should be doing this, and I don't understand why they aren't. This game is the only thing keeping the company floating, and they don't appear to be planning for any eventualities like when AMD and nVidia stop caring about DX9 features in their cards.

We can only hope they aren't idiots and are actually building something and just haven't told us. Maybe it will be the next expansion. It would explain why it took so long.

The whole time I was reading this thread, I was wondering if they could use the upcoming expansion as a way to improve/upgrade things.

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@videoboy.4162 said:The whole time I was reading this thread, I was wondering if they could use the upcoming expansion as a way to improve/upgrade things.I'm not sure that would be feasible. That might require a re-work of the entire code base for all of the content released prior to this expansion. To me, that seems like an awful amount of work. Would ANet trust the expansion release to not be marred by whatever was implemented to address the other portions of the code to upgrade the entire game?

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@Randulf.7614 said:I'm not against it unless it impedes or delays future content. This is very much way, way low down the priority list vs actual content.

There IS an engine team working at Arenanet, they are responsible for all the visual/engine upgrades we got over the years, starting with the new shaders required to make the karka skin back with southsun, the flame patches used by wyverns in Heart of Thorns and of course the new post processing in Path of Fire and onward. There is zero reason to believe that working on the engine and modernizing it would suddenly mean slower content releases. Character models, sounds, music, dialogue, text can remain the exact same between engine versions.

Working on the engine would slow down content releases is like saying working on new mount skins will slow down releases. Different teams, different responsibilities.

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@kharmin.7683 said:

@videoboy.4162 said:The whole time I was reading this thread, I was wondering if they could use the upcoming expansion as a way to improve/upgrade things.I'm not sure that would be feasible. That might require a re-work of the entire code base for all of the content released prior to this expansion. To me, that seems like an awful amount of work. Would ANet trust the expansion release to not be marred by whatever was implemented to address the other portions of the code to upgrade the entire game?

I was probably unclear. I was thinking updating/upgrading in parts, not the whole thing at once. I know they do small-medium updates alongside the release of many of their other patches. I thought maybe an expansion would allow room for a larger one this time. Like, maybe the expansion came with an upgrade to Dx12 or maybe a group of texture enhancements to bring older armor more in line with newer armor. I didn't mean the expansion + an entirely new engine. =D

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Just to make people aware that upgrading directx or other engines will not automatic improve graphics, the features needs to be coded in.

Am sure that anet would love to improve it but the work would take longer then it will to release an expansion pack, whole game code needs to reviewed and edited.

ESO directx11 also has performance issue with their engine i believe, and they have a much more funding then anet (correct me if am wrong).

MMORPG are much more complex then the usual games, there are single player games with a simplier engines yet still have issues with directx upgrade.

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  • 2 weeks later...

New Graphic Cards are supporting the new Direct X version. To have the performace you expect when buying a new Graphic card is not that big if the game codec is running on an older Direct X version.I Upgraded from NVidia 960 to a NVidia 1070. Some effects have been added but not as much as expected. Compared to a Game that have been coded for Direct X 11/12 the imporve after this upgrade was not as expected.

Maybe this will bring back more players to GW2 if the game is beeing moved to an actual Direct X version that will use and support today features of newer graphic Cards.

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Ryzen 3600X, GeForce 1060. Wandering around Lion's Arch, same graphics settings. For DX12 I'm using configuration options in d912pxy that use more CPU rather than GPU.

Using DX12 you can see that the CPU load is spread much more evenly across the cores, which gives greater room for CPU spikes. Also although it's not really evident in this example, in large battles it tends to be CPU-limited with DX9 (primarily due to that one core that's permanently at 95+%), whereas with DX12 it's GPU-limited. DX12 is also a lot smoother esp. while panning the camera. And both minimum and maximum FPS are higher for me under DX12 (it's the first I've ever spent a lot of my time at my 75FPS refresh rate ...).

This is using a DX9 -> DX12 converter, which naturally limits what can be done. It's a proof of concept that there are significant benefits even with a fairly minimal DX12 implementation.

DX9gw2-dx9.png

DX12 (note - DX12 uses the Graphics_1 GPU engine, at least with nVidia, and that's not reported in Utilization - the small bit of usage at the end in 3D is when I switched from GW2 to screenshot Task Manager).gw2-dx12.png

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@"Randulf.7614" said:I'm not against it unless it impedes or delays future content. This is very much way, way low down the priority list vs actual content.

Hopefully a new engine could improve the development of content. Right now, it seems that some types of content require tremendous amounts of work, QA, and tweaking to ensure it goes into the game without bugs. As part of remastering, I'd think ANet could go to the drawing board, and re-think, how they design, create, implement, and render different types of content to create a concise workflow with greater efficiency. Perhaps new licenced technologies or engines exists that can push the tools for the content team to another level.

The technology isn't simply about what runs on a client computer to put the pixels on the screen. Behind the engine is a chain of tools and processes that work behind the scenes to get content ready for the engine. The back and front of this content pipeline could be very intricately, and interdependently put together. And as a part of an exercise in changing engines, or remastering content, can be to rebuild this pipeline to be more efficient.

I don't think games companies talk in detail of how their technologies have helped or hurt their process. It is probably somewhat proprietary information. But, my optimism is that, a push to revamp technologies and engines can lead to cheaper, better, and less buggy content. Maybe even open up the possibilities of making content previously though too expensive to implement vs the benefits.

We want the game to grow, and not just in the amount of content. But in the types of content being delivered, and the quality of each release. If the current way of doing things is holding this growth back, then by all means, any chance to change things, small to big, should be considered, irrespective of how it might affect short term delivery of things. With some people saying UE5 tools could be a real boon to the development process it makes me wonder...

It would no doubt be a daunting, resource intensive task, but... That is what I would value the most of a "remaster", not spruced up existing content, but a foundation for improved content delivery into the future.

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all i can say there engin is geting old and need a better 1 but i know that cost alot of moneyi also play BDO on ultra setting but to tell the truth that game runs better then GW2 for mei think there old engin cant keep up anymore with so much informationi DC alot for no reason ? mostly in a story what i hate so much becouse i need to do it all over again :( the trading post is very slow mabye to many players use it

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@"Veryl.7861" said:I adress this forum post to all developers working on the latest releases.I've discussed World Polishing before but what I really wish for is a remastered version of GW2.

Textures are all the same. Switching to another engine would only allow us to have better detail culling transparent textures and allows players to experience a higher framerate with more detail when zooming in.

Now from what I'm aware off is that the GW2 engine is the same as GW1's. This was because the original engine was good enough to provide people an experience like walking through a painting wich I very much appreciate.

Nonetheless there are many many people who suffer from overheating computers and low framerates still dedicated to GW2 for a reason. It's a perfect unique game with it's own lore and own way of storytelling. This could be easily solved if it was so easy to convert DX9 to DX12 Ultimate (with RTX and Ansel provided by Nvidia)Now I can't look in Anet's wallet so I don't know if it's too much to cost to buy licences for a new engine but heck.. there are even free possibilities like Unreal engine provides us nowdays.

Why I feel stubborn enough to ask for a Remastered version is because I have helped developing other games that released around 2002.I'm aware of polycount restrictions and texture minimizing for optimal use.. but isn't this way of working getting outdated?With technology ike RTX simple reflections in ice or water would be far more detailed and immerges the player to love this game even more.Another game called Black Dessert has remastered their game. Why can't anet?

About my thoughts on world polishing is a better way of guided by the lore of gw2 to update for example divinities reach castles in the sky that once were unreachable and now manditory for flying skyscale. The player finds out unrealistic balconies and doors that are even too smal for an asura to enter placed as mere scenery.

In the times of GW1 I wished for bump mapping and a day and night cycle. this GW2 has nailed because I love the way Supersample works although some still set it too native because of unrealistic lightning.

As our eyes confined to games getting more detailed every year our eyes are spoiled. Graphicwise/mechinacly and the high engine output that only allows people to play with more than decent desktops. I hope GW2 has the ambition to grow likewise by the effort other engines put into their game to optimize eyecandy for our lazy eyes that strive for the players mind to set priority ingame. GW2 has done a good job bringing out more visuals like infusions and legendary trinkets... But people still log off and they poof away into nothingness, Though when entering a portal the character has a nice transition to the other portal. maybe lorewise there could open possibilities to allow the player to log off but actually "standby" in the lore of gw2.

Cantha is upon us and I couldn't be more thrilled about this increddible expansion. I just really hope it's not in vain for those players who seek eyecandy to the fullest extend like I do.

GW2 is directX9 having an engine that only uses one CPU core. In a remastered version I'd imagine highering framerates and more "polishing" those ugly textures ore onesided ones to have as low polygons as the measure takes.

Question is: Is a remastered version of GW2 possible so we don't have to wait for GW3? honestly i dont think that's ever gonna happen. GW2 has all the assets a player needs to have fun in such an amazing game.

With all respect and love for the one's behind the screens.I hope the community can work together with the developers to inspire this game to be timeless as much as possible.

With love and being faithful,Van Marle

I think RTX is maybe a bit too much - given a LOT of work should be done to implement it (Only Blizzard has done RTX in their mmorpg, but that's blizzard they are swimming in money) and a completely new engine (for example Unreal like you mentioned) would mean the game would have to be written entirely from scratch again (8 years of developement needs to be written again in that case) would require an incredible amount of work and money probably. I think just updating to more modern standards of rendering techniques should be plenty and within their budget :D!

I too would like to see a remastered version, I think with upgrading rendering techniques and more engine optimization Guild Wars 2's potential could really be unfolded. I would like to see more maps with as much visual eyecandy as Grothmar Valley for example but with the same performance as core Tyria maps:)! With optimization I really do believe a lot more content/systems could come to Guild Wars 2 because developers will have an easier time implementing them without having worries about crashes and gamebreaking bugs.

A remastered version with world polishing and some big engine overhauls would make for an even more outstanding game than Guild Wars 2 already is, I fully agree with your statement:D!

Thank you for the interesting post!

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