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Guardian as a whole compared to the rest.


Arken.3725

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This is obviously from an Spvp stand-point so we could just knock that out of the way right now. I wanted to go over Guardian as a whole and how it operates for both damage-output, sustain, mobility, cc access, ect and compare it to the rest of the cast. I've been wanting to do this for a while since I believe most if not all aspects of Guardian play revolves around actually thinking. What do I mean by this? Take a look.

-Sustain: When we talk about sustain for Guardian, we're looking at what keeps it alive, right? How does Guardian do this overall? It's heavily reliance on Aegis being the primary offender here. This forces a player into the Honor trait-line, even though it was nerfed, heavily. Never has there been so much emphasis on active play when comparing Aegis to anything else to sustain itself. While I love this, it's been VERY difficult to keep oneself alive with such play. Strong passives don't seem to exist here, even less-so with the significant nerfs as of late.

-Damage-output: When we look at damage-output, we not only have to look at how much damage is applied but also how it's applied. Guardians have notoriously had it difficult(from launch) at applying damage. Look at the tracking on every ranged weapon it has, look at how difficult it is to keep an enemy inside its main damage-source(symbols). Even if you look past at how difficult it is to apply said damage, the actual potential damage applied is even more pitiful. One would think that if something is difficult to, the action itself would be significant. Not the case here.

-Mobility: This one is rather simple. Anyone and their mothers could see Guardians mobility is and has been less than average. As a primarily melee-profession, one would think that decent speed would be applied but here, it is not. One aspect you could also take into account is the ability to stick on an opponent which would require solid speed or copious amounts of debilitating conditions which again, guardian does not have.

With all of this being said, It would be nice to get some insight from a developer as to why Guardian is designed this way. I can't understand it with nearly 9k hours played on it. Outside of all of this, I haven't even gone into the traits and skills but that's for another time.

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I've always (well, haven't brought it up for some time now) advocated for aegis and blind acting as a 0.5 sec block and 0.5 sec miss all attacks respectively. that way timing still plays a part but it gets a massive defense boost (teef will actually be able to have some defense now), and stacking boon/ condi duration wouldn't really work. obviously some things would have to be reworked.

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Before the March sPvP patch, DH was like 2 buffs from being meta. FB had good diversity within its roles (was a bit over performing too). But core was dead. With the new patch DH is out. Core is... not sure better or worse, still not viable.

There are few fundamental issues guardian that IMO prevent none FB builds to be sPvP viable:

Overall:

  1. HP pool. On it is own, not an issue, but it ensures that berserker amulet can never be used by power builds, which for the most part, lack damage.
  2. Lack of out of combat mobility and access to either 25% movement speed or swiftness in skills used on sPvP. The ensures that every fucking build must use either Traveler or Lynx, thus further loss in stats compared to every other build.
  3. Guardian offensive core lines, radiance and zeal, have zero sustain. This means you are bound to use multiple defensive/support lines. Comparison among heavy classes. Both warrior main core damage lines, Str and discipline, offer tons of sustain. Power rev, Invocation and Devastation have multiple sustain options. You want to play high damage power build as guardian? GL..
  4. Over reliance on multipliers. Need retaliation. Need target to stand in symbol. Need target to have vulnerability. Need target to have cripple. Need target to be tethered. These scenarios in sPvP are illogical. Again, compare to rev, sure you need fury (but access to that is like access to candy on Halloween) and vulnerability on target. Far less requirements.

Core problems:

  1. Core virtues are garbage. Virtues gives them some power, but VoC in particular is pathetic.
  2. Virtues as a line that supposed to offer both damage and sustain, offers not much on the sustain side, and almost none on the damage. Lets face it, the only reason anyone takes this line is for the stability on Courage. If that trait is moved to another line I would never use virtues... anywhere? It has no place in PvE either. I assume that Anet thinks that Unscathed Contender provides near constant 20% damage, but non one runs this cuz its uptime in PvP (or even PvE) is none existent.
  3. Core has no access to CC. GS 5, and hammer garbage CC. But hammer is the worst guardian weapon (and probably is the worst across all classes), so it is GS. That one unreliable CC is not going to cut it.
  4. IMP core power builds anchor of effectiveness is LoW. It gives you a time window to play aggressive. People who played core guardian back in the good days understand this better. You played a bit evasive when its time window is out, and very aggressive when it is available. You could also use as a trap. You give the illusion that you are out of options against a melee opponent, the get close, then boom, LoW plus GS2. They eat it thinking they will down, to just realize you near full HP and they are dying. Meh.. being too nostaligic... In any case, decreasing the skill heal would be fine. Decreasing its CD, means core has less ability to play offensive.

Not so related, core condi is better. Still as easy as ever to counter, but it is better than before. I think if you have support, and good allies dropping condi, you can easily do well now, compared to before.

DH:

  1. No access to retaliation. This makes using radiance impossible. Beside LB, this makes playing full melee not an option.
  2. Pre march patch, I think LB was underrated. TS needed a slight buff, and LB 5 needed the damage re-disturbed a bit, so it is not top heavy. But of course, the anchor skill of the weapon in sPvP got completely trashed. Plus TS was over nerfed compared to most other power skills (close to 40% between CD and damage).
  3. Too many useless trait. It is so bad that the sPvP builds runs the same traits as the PvE build, cuz all none dps traits are obsolete.

At any rate, even if some of power build issues got resolved, power damage as a whole is not sPvP viable, unless you are a thief or running something like SB warrior. There are much deeper fundamental issues with sPvP now, that just making adjustments to one class, would not do make it viable (unless it is some crazy shit). I ran core power a couple of times. Full GS2 deals like 5.5K damage. You cannot kill anything. You cannot even cleave... I think sPvP now is a lost cause. There needs to be another patch on the same level as the March patch. I do not see this happening. And Anet only seemingly concern is that FB is not too dominant in sPvP. Patch notes over the last 1.5 years clearly indicate that the current balance devs have no clue how anything but FB operates in PvP. And from the balance patch, they clearly lack the competence necessary to even see how specific elements will be broken, even when players told them specifically about them. And it looks we are back to quarterly balance patches. Which would work when you have a semi stable setting. That will not work now.

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@Stand The Wall.6987 said:I've always (well, haven't brought it up for some time now) advocated for aegis and blind acting as a 0.5 sec block and 0.5 sec miss all attacks respectively. that way timing still plays a part but it gets a massive defense boost (teef will actually be able to have some defense now), and stacking boon/ condi duration wouldn't really work. obviously some things would have to be reworked.

Damn, that would require alot of reworked engineer skills. How would you envision pulsing blinds to work here then? Like smoke bomb, would the enemy miss the whole time as long as they stand inside the smoke bomb?

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@"otto.5684" Excellent post, let me compound off of you my friend.

With the over-reliance on Aegis, you're stuck always dedicating a single trait-line to Honor. Funny thing about Honor is that it's far superior(even after the nerfs) to self-sustain the Guardian than Valor ever was. In fact, without FB, your access to Aegis is actually quite small(pop F3 and shield 4). It's also problematic that Guardian has notoriously had terrible healing-skills as well. Shelter, Litany, Shout-heal and Signet heals are so terrible by virtue(get it haha). In fact, the cd nerf to Litany made zero sense to me since it was such a terrible skill to begin with. Let's go over the plethora of outdated(and un fun) skills Guardian has access to.

Healing SkillsShelter: Long CD, only form of channeled block with a relatively low heal. Why has this never really been utilized? Could be the long cd, mediocre heal, abundance of unblockable interrupts. Irregardless, this has been irrelevant since the dark-ages.

Litany: This healing skill is the polar-opposite of ones such as Infuse-light and Defiant stance. Which do you guys think is harder to achieve, dealing damage to heal yourself of taking damage to heal yourself? rhetorical. Not to mention this now has the same cd and is infinitely harder to achieve the same results.

Receive the light: On paper, this actually doesn't seem so bad. However, the trait that pairs with it has been outdated and I think it turns a lot of people off to investing into it. Biggest issue you'll find is successfully channeling all of the pulses with the sheer amount of CC in the game.

Signet of Resolve: This one's easy. Incredibly long cd, incredibly long cast-time, FAR less than average passive-aspect for a signet with a decent heal. Self-explanatory if you ask me as to why this one is horrible.

Purification: This used to be a solid heal until it got nerfed 3 times. Now it has a semi-longish cast-time with an average heal. It's still far better than the four mentioned above but that doesn't speak volumes here. The only reason why this is decent(ish) and possibly litany is it's often paired with meditation heal trait.

Mantra of Solace: I love this heal because it has the risky aspect of charging it with the benefit of using the ageis and heals skillfully. That's mostly gone though. This heal alone forces a fb to always spec into the honor trait-line but now the benefit doesn't match the risk involved. Even when specced with Healing-power the actual heals given don't feel impactful anymore.

I'll go over my personal opinion on utilities and traits next.

For those curious about our current weaponry and what I think of it, this thread still holds relevance. https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/76689/arkens-discussion-on-guardian-weaponry#latest

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Ya man. For honor, my thought process was to nerf aegis heal. Instead Anet nerfed the FB mantra heal. I really wish that FB is less invested in healing power, but nope. And since the mantra heal now sucks you are further relying on honor.

LoW is dependent on damage levels. It was extremely valuable when core was strong. Right now, it kinda is unusable for power builds in sPvP. Reminding core heals are beyond terrible.

IMO, purification was strong pre patch, and is even slightly stronger now. But of course DH only, and must invest in traps. So no real use outside of medi trapper DH which is Currently dead.

For utilities to make it simple, it goes as follows: are you playing FB? Yes, use mantras and RF. No, are you using mediations? No, why are you playing PvP?

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This is an extension to the op and the post above but regarding traits this time. I'll do my best to make it easy to read by separating them by their respective lines.

ZealMinors: Regarding all of these being symbol-based, a mechanic that requires all benefits requiring both the target and the person casting to stand still in a very small circle. This goes pretty much against what this game is about with all the talk on mobility and position Here goes:

  • Zealots speed: Gives no speed and is on a relatively long cd for it's terrible benefit that you have no control over. Symbolic exposure: Pretty solid trait for what it offers if you can keep an enemy in it. Symbolic Power: Same thing as exposure but again, this is reinforcing two things: One, to keep someone standing in a small circle and 2: Forcing investment into honor for Writ of Persistence.

Majors: The overall scheme with the useful selections here are modifiers and maximizing them, the rest are incredibly subpar.
Adept-tier

  • Wrathful Spirit: got a buff to add Fury, this trait is incredibly reliant on FB since it has much more access to aegis than the rest of the builds. Fiery Wrath: Even though this helps maximizing modifiers further, it doesn't feel 7% is worth the investment compared to the other two. Zealous Scepter: I would say this is the 2nd choice among the three since its duration got heavily nerfed but it relies once again, heavily on FB, Loremaster specifically.

Master-tier

  • Furious Focus: This is the only good choice out of the three even though it got nerfed a bit recently. I'm not going to even go over the other two master-tier traits since they're so terrible it's not even worth mentioning.

Grandmaster-tier

  • Symbolic Avenger: This the only good choice as well, and it's not even that great. A mere 10% for a GM isn't even that strong if you ask me. Also, the other two are just as bad majority of the master-tier traits that they're not even worth considering.

RadianceMinors: It feels as if 2/3's of the minors here feel relatively useless outside of Radiant Power, especially Renewed Justice which is completely useless while in a fight. Justice is blind paired with just a high-cooldown virtue feels lacking

Majors: This line isn't heavily focused on symbols but rather self-empowerment but does a poor job at it when compared to the overall strength of Zeal.Adept-tier

  • Inner Fire: This has been the same since release and since you have an abundance of Fury access, this feels redundant and useless. Right-Hand Strength; This used to be good when it gave an extra 15% crit chance on main-hand weapons but the nerf to give it such low stats doesn't even feel worth the investment. Healer's Retribution: This is the only sensible choice since it pairs well with the only good GM trait.

Master-tier

  • Retribution: It's a very boring trait but the best once out of all the master-tier traits. It's not even worth discussing the other two ever since their recent nerfs have felled them into irrelevancy.

Grandmaster-tier

  • Righteous Instincts: The only real choice out of the three, even though it got nerfed heavily. Once again, the other two aren't even worth talking about due to how terrible they are. The nerf to RF pushed Radiance out of the power-scene in favor of Zeal. Hell, even if they buffed it back it wouldn't compete.

ValorMinors: The recent change to Steadfast Courage was excellent but the duration is way too short. Once again, outside of FB, Guardian lacks a lot of access to Aegis. Might of the protector used to be good but since they added an ICD, it's fallen to the wayside as crap. Valorous Defense is just....what? This one is completely useless.

Majors: The overall theme of this line is to provide selfish sustain but it does a very poor job overall.Adept-tier

  • Smiter's Boon: The only real choice in this line to provide decent self-sustain. It's gotten nerfed so much but it's THAT much better compared to the other two that it's not even a consideration to look at the others.

Master-tier

  • The only real choices for this one are either the boring Stalwart Defender or Strength in Numbers. Both of which aren't interactive at all and are relatively weak but still far superior to Communal Defenses. Holy geez this tier is terrible.

Grandmaster-tier

  • Once again, the only real reason you pick this line is for meditation-investment. The other traits aren't even in the same stratosphere in terms of effectiveness.

HonorMinors: This line does a much better job at selfish sustain and team sustain compared to Valor that it's not even funny. Granted selfless Daring got nerfed recently, it still provides OK sustain. I miss what Purity of Body used to be: 10% more dmg when you were less than 100% endurance. This 15% endurance is pretty bad.

Majors: You're investing into symbols here, nothing else comes close to being useful.

Adept-tier

  • You're only real choice here is Protector's Restoration, even though it got nerfed unnecessarily. The other two are terrible due to the fact that Mace is still bugged and they really destroyed the rez trait here. Not worth it.

Master-tier

  • Pure of Heart is still the go-to pick here, even with the nerfs as of late. For some reason, the other two got nerfed just as hard if not more even though they were completely useless. This one's obvious for your pick.

Grandmaster-tier

  • Once again, you're picking WoP. Back when pure support was a thing, I could see Force of Will but that's not longer the case. Not to mention the shout-trait providing nothing of significant value for your team. You're running at max 1 shout in your build.

VirtuesMinors: Guardians don't really have access to very long duration boons anymore. FB nerfs saw to that. Power of the virtuous feels in a strange spot as such, same with Virtue of Retribution. Retal as it stands is both a terribly mindless boon and annoying poke-damage. It's a weaker confusion but in far more abundance. I'd see removal of this boon if I could.

Majors: This trait-line no longer sees value in pvp anymore outside of core/dh. It doesn't provide enough of anything in particular to want to invest in.

Adept-tier

  • All three of these are absolutely terrible but again, if you had to choose one, go with Retaliatory Subconscious. Nuff said here.

Master-tier

  • Glacial heart was used often back when condi-brand could be a thing, no longer. You're only real choice here is Absolute resolution for sustain. The new inspiring virtue is so underwhelming that it ain't even funny.

Grandmaster-tier

  • Once again, Permeating Wrath saw use but no longer. Sage-brand is dead along with this traits usefulness. Indomitable Courage is your only choice here.

These are all just my insight on core Guardian. As you can see, at least 70% of these are absolutely useless and even the ones you take are as such. You're just stuck picking something. Let me know what you guys think.

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Honestly they have gutted so much of the Core Guardian trying get a handle on each of the Elites as they came out that not only have they made Core Guardian an absolute joke but they have as usual over reacted in their approach on the Elites so much so that I have shelved my various Guardians(3) for anything in the competitive side of the game be it PvP or WvW. I'm hoping that at some point they come to the realization of how much of a hole that they have put the Guardian and our various Elites in but I'm not holding my breath.

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Without strong mechanics (durational blocks, stealth, evasion on skills, amazing mobility, ect) it's difficult to keep this ship floating. Interesting and fun interactive traits would also be nice. Maybe even some updated skills.

It would be awesome if whoever's job is to look at guardian would take a look here. Some transparency would be awesome.

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@Arken.3725 said:Without strong mechanics (durational blocks, stealth, evasion on skills, amazing mobility, ect) it's difficult to keep this ship floating. Interesting and fun interactive traits would also be nice. Maybe even some updated skills.

It would be awesome if whoever's job is to look at guardian would take a look here. Some transparency would be awesome.

Thematically, guardian should be the very last class to ever get access to stealth....

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@Arken.3725 said:Without strong mechanics (durational blocks, stealth, evasion on skills, amazing mobility, ect) it's difficult to keep this ship floating. Interesting and fun interactive traits would also be nice. Maybe even some updated skills.

It would be awesome if whoever's job is to look at guardian would take a look here. Some transparency would be awesome.

Transparency, LMAO....

Example, just from last patch, the change to Heavy Light. Beside moving the CC to skill base (which was the only reason anyone used this trait), the 15% extra damage on CC to me tells me whoever made this change, not only never played DH or understands anything about guardian design, they did not fucking bother to read the what the other GM that does. A 15% flat to tethered targets which lasts 10 fucking seconds. So.. here is some transparency for you...

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Here is what I think

1) I think the scepter should go back to being 1200 range and the auto attack should be a chain attack that just hits the target , and not orbs flying out.

2) I think the Virtues and Dragonhunter traitline should have a trait similar to Loremaster in Firebrand where we retain Virtues passives while they are on cooldown.

3) I think Virtues is the traitline in most need of a complete rework. Absolute Resolution, Permeating Wrath, and Indomitable Courage are actually a well round of talents it just good there not all in the same slot. The main issue I have is that we shouldn't have to take an entire trait line just for Indomitable Courage where basically everything else is pointless.

4)I think all virtues on F3 should be a stunbreak and the point from number 2 could easily replace Indomitable Courage.

5)The effect when you hit a foe when disabled needs to stop, because it is becoming a trend of terrible traits. I think the stability on heavy light is okay, but the cripple and chill ones are useless.

6) I think Firebrand is basically gonna get berserkered or Chronomancered. It does to much and I don't think they can really fix it. I feel what probably needs to happen is merge the tome skills into active abilities for the virtues. The F3 could be a stunbreak and the taunt skill and 1 skill. Then make a trait that when used it drops a symbol that is the number 4 currently.

The f1 could be pull enemies to you and drop the number 4 and throw in the weakness effect from number 2.The f2 could be the convert conditions into boons and give swiftness and regeneration, and a set heal like wings of resolve like 2500 or something AOE.Make it drop the river pulse heal as a symbol when traited. So rework a trait to relate to the F3 and F2.

Thats just some of my thoughts. There is a lot that needs to be worked on.

What I would personally love is the mantras to be like 360 or 450 range instead of 180. The Axe auto attack to be a midrange weapon instead of a melee, so something like 450 to 600 range.

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Play something other than Guardian the you can realize how nice you have it. I mean damn, people complaining about Guardians being weak are the most extreme casuals ever. They are meta in every single game mode. I play Guardian and it is boring as hell because of how easy it is. Get over yourself already. Fact is, if you think Gaurdian is difficult to play or underpowered in any way, then you are just bad at the game.

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@Shaogin.2679 said:Play something other than Guardian the you can realize how nice you have it. I mean kitten, people complaining about Guardians being weak are the most extreme casuals ever. They are meta in every single game mode. I play Guardian and it is boring as hell because of how easy it is. Get over yourself already. Fact is, if you think Gaurdian is difficult to play or underpowered in any way, then you are just bad at the game.

Just curious in what type of game mode do you play a Guardian(PvE, PvP, WvW and if PvP what Skill Rating have held and for how many seasons) because some of the players that are discussing these issues with the guardian(not myself because I'm just a filthy casual ) have played a Guardian in most every PvP season and held Plat tiers most every season so if you are implying that they don't know how to play by what standard are able to support your opinions .Mind you I'm not attacking you I am actually curious because if you can actually back up your argument with other than circular arguments and show that you are someone that does do Competitive PvP with some actual Rating regularly for multiple seasons I'm fairly sure most people would be interested in intelligent discussion.So please feel free to jump in .

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Sometimes I feel like it's determental to make lengthy posts since I'm fairly certain a lot of what was posted will probably be glossed over. Here in essence is what I'm trying to say:

  • damage application is terrible on guardian due to the reasons listed above, not to mention the vast majority of the time there are no special properties attached to them ( evasion, blocks, just to name a few).
  • mobility is also rough in a sense that you could specialize into getting to your target but good luck sticking on them (lack of debilitating conditions).
  • sustain revolved almost entirely around active play. This may not sound like a weakness but when such play keeps getting nerfed compared to stronger counterparts which are much easier to utilize, that's an issue.

These are just a few shorthand issues I feel the class is seeing.

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@Shaogin.2679 said:Play something other than Guardian the you can realize how nice you have it. I mean kitten, people complaining about Guardians being weak are the most extreme casuals ever. They are meta in every single game mode. I play Guardian and it is boring as hell because of how easy it is. Get over yourself already. Fact is, if you think Gaurdian is difficult to play or underpowered in any way, then you are just bad at the game.

I do. I play Warrior and rev In PvP. Power guardian builds have not been competitive in a very long time. I would not mind SB troll CC and evade meta. Or rev burst, pre March patch. Why does the only viable builds has to be a misfit of using symbols and FB that never should have existed? but does due to devs incompetence in understanding that having power builds revolve around an AOE melee DOT does not work? Yet they fucking double down on it to reinforce the worst aspects of FB design. Then instead of needing FB they fucking nerf the honor line...

I don’t want to play symbol FB, why the fuck is it the only playable build in sPvP?

PvE wise, ya guardian is good. Is, was and always will be. Cuz AI mobs are dumb and stand in AOE. Also, 20 stacks of fire in PvE is a thing. and of course, HP pools do not matter much. Neither does mobility.

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I find it weird how anet handles balance. For example I like to play mesmer as main class, but don't do it in pvp, because of how broken it is. It is pretty much just a metabattle build clown carnival with selfcreated builds pretty much getting the short end of the stick. gw1 had similiar issue with mainstream builds, but it atleast still rewards user created builds and has more different game modes.

I think if soulbest and mirage have a tradeoff for their classes every other class deserves to have one too.

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@pninak.1069 said:I find it weird how anet handles balance. For example I like to play mesmer as main class, but don't do it in pvp, because of how broken it is. It is pretty much just a metabattle build clown carnival with selfcreated builds pretty much getting the short end of the stick. gw1 had similiar issue with mainstream builds, but it atleast still rewards user created builds and has more different game modes.

I think if soulbest and mirage have a tradeoff for their classes every other class deserves to have one too.

Most other classes already have tradeoffs installed.Warrior: berserker replaces their burst skills with other skills, spellbreaker just has 2 adrenaline bars and access to level 1 burstsGuardian: both elite specs replace their virtues (f1-F3)Revenant: both elite specs replace the F2 skill (Ancient Echo)

Thief: both elite specs replace the F1 skill (Steal)Ranger: druid has weaker pets, soulbeast lost pet swap in combat nowEngineer: both elite specs replace the F5 skill (elite toolbelt), scrapper additionally gets a 180 vitality malus

Elementalist: tempest is missing a real trade off, weaver loses instant access to offhand skills of an attunementNecromancer: both elite specs replace the Death Shroud (F1)Mesmer: chronomancer replaces all shatter skills with other versions, mirage technically replaces the dodge roll, but I wouldn't really consider this a trade off, since mirage cloak is just better in every single situation imaginable, the 1 dodge roll penalty is PvP only as far as I know

So you just have to give tempest a trade off and mirage probably could also get one that affects PvE, not just PvP, and we are basically done with installing tradeoffs.

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Guardian is one of the strongest damage dealer classes in the game, the Snowcrows build alone can help you do up to 35k dps, that's more than I will ever do on my warrior alone. Dragon hunter and Firebrand are both really competitive damage dealers as a whole in all game modes. In terms of support, Guardian is still top dog, wholistically you don't need the Honor Line to be an effective support, you can actually take valor which puts emphasis on toughness and virtues which gives boon duration and virtue recharge( with firebrands it's book recharge) you just have to use your dodge rolls when you zerg.

At the moment in this current patch I can go full damage build DH with minstrels armor and never die in PvE as Guardian while remaining an effective damage dealer. I've actually watched several of your streams and your reliance on the Harrier Amulet really takes a lot away from your survival to thief level health pool from vitality. Maybe switch to something with vitality that way you don't need to rely on honor so much?

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@Aridon.8362 said:Guardian is one of the strongest damage dealer classes in the game, the Snowcrows build alone can help you do up to 35k dps, that's more than I will ever do on my warrior alone. Dragon hunter and Firebrand are both really competitive damage dealers as a whole in all game modes. In terms of support, Guardian is still top dog, wholistically you don't need the Honor Line to be an effective support, you can actually take valor which puts emphasis on toughness and virtues which gives boon duration and virtue recharge( with firebrands it's book recharge) you just have to use your dodge rolls when you zerg.

At the moment in this current patch I can go full damage build DH with minstrels armor and never die in PvE as Guardian while remaining an effective damage dealer. I've actually watched several of your streams and your reliance on the Harrier Amulet really takes a lot away from your survival to thief level health pool from vitality. Maybe switch to something with vitality that way you don't need to rely on honor so much?

PvE damage means nothing in PvP.

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@Drennon.7190 said:

@Aridon.8362 said:Guardian is one of the strongest damage dealer classes in the game, the Snowcrows build alone can help you do up to 35k dps, that's more than I will ever do on my warrior alone. Dragon hunter and Firebrand are both really competitive damage dealers as a whole in all game modes. In terms of support, Guardian is still top dog, wholistically you don't need the Honor Line to be an effective support, you can actually take valor which puts emphasis on toughness and virtues which gives boon duration and virtue recharge( with firebrands it's book recharge) you just have to use your dodge rolls when you zerg.

At the moment in this current patch I can go full damage build DH with minstrels armor and never die in PvE as Guardian while remaining an effective damage dealer. I've actually watched several of your streams and your reliance on the Harrier Amulet really takes a lot away from your survival to thief level health pool from vitality. Maybe switch to something with vitality that way you don't need to rely on honor so much?

PvE damage means nothing in PvP.

Wasn't guardian, or more specifically Firebrand, just recently nerfed heavily in PvP because it was dramatically overperforming?

The recent interview with a dev on Teapots stream also suggested that Dragonhunter performs very strong in the mid playing field (mid to top gold, low plat). Which means it might see tuning down, even though it is not over represented in the top PvP (plat 3+).

Which part of PvP are guardians currently having issues with?

Not even going to mention WvW and burnguard there.

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