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1 dodge in WVW is just.... terrible


scerevisiae.1972

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@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Curunen.8729 said:I'm gonna have to stick my neck on the line regarding mirrors - I kind of like them. Guaranteed weakness proc (unlike rng chaos armour), and can delay access to evade for when needed. And I'm also a huge skritt/magpie for visual effects, which mirrors don't fail to deliver on.

I believe all Deceptions aside from IA (which already has built in cloak) should spawn a mirror. Jaunt should spawn at previous location prior to teleport (strengthening in location evade access, but not in a line when running), Mirage Advance should spawn at previous location (so when you Retreat and detarget, you hit the mirror as well).

Regarding EM - problem now is, if we had 2 dodges returned this would be absolutely overpowered condi cleanse with 2 per dodge. It's also the stupidest trait redesign, in that it is the most uncreative and boring grandmaster major trait I can think of - only cleanse on dodge... like wow, that really excites me... :/ If they give 2 dodges back, then they should also change this trait once again.

Simply, IH should be baseline GM minor trait. There's nothing else to be said here that hasn't been said over what is soon going to be 3 years. It will make mirrors more impactful for all mirage builds (triggering clone evade and ambush), it will make all mirage builds more thematically consistent, and allow the whole spec to be balanced around it - rebalancing all clone ambushes and shifting appropriate amount of damage to player. Speed of Sand should be merged in baseline mirage cloak function.

Nomad's Endurance should absolutely be 2s vigour now. Also we mustn't ignore it gives 150 condi damage with vigour - ie 5 stacks of might worth of condi damage. Perhaps this could be changed to not be skewed to either condi or power. Otherwise vigour is giving big buff to condi, which also can build for more of it through Chaos, but not doing much for power.

Anyway, if Anet wants me to play TB/Dire/Rabid/etc cheese, then so be it. /shrug

Mirrors are awful because you can't control where they spawn and have to run/teleport to them, this make you predictable and makes you either waste time or a resource to get them. While your suggestions improve them they don't solve their issue.There were several suggestions how to make mirrors good since pof released.On top of mind make mirrors do damage if enemy passes through it. Make them get you a point automatically (kind of like clones dot thing) and you F5 to use them.(can't remember who suggested these ones, sorry).

As for visual effects I disagree, it's a rhombus that shatters, nothing special about it.

Tbh the only mirrors you can't control are the ones from Desert Distortion. The problem aside from that is Crystal Sands is very weak for an offensive skill (should do far more damage at least), and False Oasis only has value from the mirror in a stationary fight (due to 3s spawn delay). I think StG is actually decent in the current state of the game, though they could have maybe left it on 25s cooldown rather than increase to 30s.Jaunt nerfs have also had a harmful effect on existence of mirrors - when playing mirage in pve it's crazy how much you can port around all over the place.

Having said that, oddly there are very few mirrors on the spec at all - more like a small addition rather than core feature of the spec. So in that way things could be left as they are and still re-buff normal endurance/dodge access because it's not like mirage would suddenly have "perma evade111!!" with how few mirrors there are.I think Desert Distortion is a weird gimmick trait that potentially should be reconsidered.

Regarding F5, after Chrono, can't see any mesmer spec getting an F5. And tbh I prefer keeping same number of keybindings between specs.Hmm, well I like the shatter visual and sound from the mirror - is satisfying and fun both aurally and visually.

Not sure if I'd want enemies to be able to trigger mirrors - unless there is severe penalty for doing so, eg cc and damage, or triggering all clones to ambush, maybe direct endurance refund, otherwise the enemy can plan to tank damage and remove potential evades to continue pressure. But I do recognise the downsides to mirrors in terms of positioning and predictability - so possibly this could work as:
  • Enemies can break mirrors but doing so will give you and all clones mirage cloak (assuming IH baseline minor) and refund 25 endurance (so you soon have a dodge available).
  • If you break the mirror directly you only get mirage cloak as normal.

Maybe breaking a mirror should apply aoe daze? Just throwing ideas out.

The only mirrors used are from f4, apart from false oasis who is also bad, like you said stationary.

As for F5 it's easy, give F5 to every mesmer spec. B)

Disagree regarding your break mirror suggestion. I mean it should get more benefits if you shatter than if foe break it. Still it would be a throwback to GW1 mesmer:If I break the mirror I take damage and deny an evade, if you catch it you get an evade and access to more damage.

Was thinking to disincentivise the enemy from breaking it (because I think right now if mirrors were suddenly two way breakable, they would be very easy for the enemy to just barge through and continue to pressure in melee), more than for the player to have control over when to break it.

Haha, sure they'll give F5... and in the process nerf F1, 2, 3 and 4 into dust. :p

@"pninak.1069" said:yea enemies don't really have a reason to destroy mirrors. it just makes them secondary clones. and why destroy mirrors where you need to attack 3 things at once vs just attacking the main mesmer in order to not giving it the opportunity to trigger them.Well I was only thinking about possibilities in the discussion with Lincolnbeard, though personal feeling is that I prefer them to remain breakable by the mirage only. Unless there is a solid idea otherwise - but I think this would have to come with many other changes, including trait reshuffle, skills etc.

Ah we are seeing this from different pov.I actually want the foe to break the mirror, suddenly, they're the ones being predictable.

I don't know if you played GW1, it is kind of the same idea of backfire+wastrel worry.In case you didn't, backfire was an hex similar to confusion, did x damage everytime you cast a spell.Wastrel's worry was also an hex (lasted 3sec) short CD, pretty spammable) that did y damage if you didn't cast a spell in those 3sec.So you're putting enemy into a choice do I cast a spell and get damaged while also cause damage on my target or do I take wastrel damage.Since wastrel was spammable you were forcing foe to cast a spell. And you could interrupt his cast.

Sadly I didn't play GW1 :( I see what you mean though about forcing the opponent into difficult "no-win" decisions. This would make sense to effectively lead the opponent on a dance through the mirrors!

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yea mesmer was the mindgamer in gw1. it sadly got accepted as a class at the very end only, because peopel didn't see the potential. Mesmer, ranger and assasin were rupter classes. for mesmer the targets were mostly casters for assa monks and for ranger caster too. Back then you had complete shutdown builds which could block your skillbar for 10 seconds. unless you used multiple different attribute skills. and mesmer had different options to force players to use or not use skills. for example there is another hex named diversion. it lasted 6 seconds had a loud noisy sound effect. now the hex does literally nothing on its own, but when the target uses a skill the skill will gain up to a minute additional recharge.

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@"pninak.1069" said:yea mesmer was the mindgamer in gw1. it sadly got accepted as a class at the very end only, because peopel didn't see the potential. Mesmer, ranger and assasin were rupter classes. for mesmer the targets were mostly casters for assa monks and for ranger caster too. Back then you had complete shutdown builds which could block your skillbar for 10 seconds. unless you used multiple different attribute skills. and mesmer had different options to force players to use or not use skills. for example there is another hex named diversion. it lasted 6 seconds had a loud noisy sound effect. now the hex does literally nothing on its own, but when the target uses a skill the skill will gain up to a minute additional recharge.

Mesmer had certain builds in some gvg comps through the game, but yeah, on the "last days" it got more prevalent.You made me remind blackout, amazing troll skill.

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yea I know the game is still there, but since I got gwamm I have nothing to really go for. I still have plans for custom builds, but rest is mostly just farming for an envoy weapon. Still come back to the game at times. Prefer a lot of stuff from gw1 over that of gw2. gw1 combat feels faster although it was lower dmg numbers and healthpools. I think for gw2 pvp example, that similiar to gw1 people mostly use builds from the internet. However in gw1 you atleast had custom builds that were able to shine in certain aspects even tho they didn't have the biggest range. like not being able to capture jade quarries.

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@"Ansau.7326" said:As someone who has mained mesmer since gw2 launch, I've realized there is a thing with anet not being comfortable with mesmers staying relevant in big scale fights. At the beggining we had glamour confusion build but it was destroyed like 6 months after game release. Later we had boonshare but it only lasted less than a year until it became subpar. And finally we had minstrel mantra chrono which was also destroyed 1 year after it was born.

But beyond that, in the recent years anet has taken a very dull and toxic approach to balance mesmer by adding huge trade offs, and the worst part is it seems anet doesn't has any intention to revert it. Mesmer is doomed to live with trade off mechanics that work against its main ones.

  • Core: Overnerfed core specs because elites "are" too strong.
  • Chrono: No IP in an elite based on shatters.
  • Mirage: 1 dodge in an elite based on dodges.

In Vanilla, mesmer was one of the hardest classes to play, with complex damage setups but without any of the passive sustain most other professions had (clone death build was the exception, but an exclusive WvW dueling build has never been relevant for anet or gw2).

With HoT and new trait system based on specs, anet finally put mesmer in a similar level as the rest. Suddenly, the community realized mesmer being equal as others was not ok and the doom of mesmer began.Happened with chrono at the beggining (apparently it was ok for druids, scrappers and guards to be unkillable tanks but not chrono), happened with mirage (apparently it was ok for thiefs and weavers to jump and evade through everything but not for mirages), and happened for core power mesmer (it is ok for thieves, soulbeasts and holos to cc+oneshot you from stealth with 2-3 skills but not for mesmers when you burn half of your skill set).

This unreasonable drama reaction has led anet to act like they did. They cannot balance mesmer in a sensible way because the community doesn't want a balanced mesmer, they are only fine as long as mesmer is nerfed. Unfortunately, when this trend and behavior extends for years, surprise surprise, that's what we end up with.

Once you have experience with several profession you realize how much higher the bar is set for mesmer compared to others. How much you need to chain skills and mechanics to achieve mediocre results, when others is 1 button = 8k AoE damage or speading condis faster than covid. And how your sustain is entirely based on limited evades and the few invuls/blocks that are easily outplayed, when others is let me show you how I spend 20s chaining evades/invuls/blocks or how my sustained healing beats your DPS.

My suggestion, forget about mesmer and have fun with anything else.

The community doesn't want a glorified pet class oppressing the rest of the playerbase because in the end , the only time when mesmer became popular was when pet specs were viable like core sword phantasm camper - chrono bunker and staff camper IH condi mirage...basically every time mesmer had access to some brainless low effort=huge reward buid.

I remember learning that core phantasm build back in the days, signet of illusions was used ...can't remember and the build was all about keeping the phantasm alive , it was dealing 5-6k dmg while you could go tanky...took one day to learn it..then we had chrono bunker...urghhhh...finally condi mirage..god.

Oh and blur into stealth into dodge evasive reflect into distortion into stealth into blur again into something else like chaos field...that's not something..."easily outplayed" lol, that's an invulnerability chain not even unblockable go through because we're talking about evasion frames acting as an invulnerability....time to face reality, GW2 mesmer got nothing of the complex class in GW1, the current one is simply a badly designed super duellist with easily abusing mechanics

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"Ansau.7326" said:As someone who has mained mesmer since gw2 launch, I've realized there is a thing with anet not being comfortable with mesmers staying relevant in big scale fights. At the beggining we had glamour confusion build but it was destroyed like 6 months after game release. Later we had boonshare but it only lasted less than a year until it became subpar. And finally we had minstrel mantra chrono which was also destroyed 1 year after it was born.

But beyond that, in the recent years anet has taken a very dull and toxic approach to balance mesmer by adding huge trade offs, and the worst part is it seems anet doesn't has any intention to revert it. Mesmer is doomed to live with trade off mechanics that work against its main ones.
  • Core: Overnerfed core specs because elites "are" too strong.
  • Chrono: No IP in an elite based on shatters.
  • Mirage: 1 dodge in an elite based on dodges.

In Vanilla, mesmer was one of the hardest classes to play, with complex damage setups but without any of the passive sustain most other professions had (clone death build was the exception, but an exclusive WvW dueling build has never been relevant for anet or gw2).

With HoT and new trait system based on specs, anet finally put mesmer in a similar level as the rest. Suddenly, the community realized mesmer being equal as others was not ok and the doom of mesmer began.Happened with chrono at the beggining (apparently it was ok for druids, scrappers and guards to be unkillable tanks but not chrono), happened with mirage (apparently it was ok for thiefs and weavers to jump and evade through everything but not for mirages), and happened for core power mesmer (it is ok for thieves, soulbeasts and holos to cc+oneshot you from stealth with 2-3 skills but not for mesmers when you burn half of your skill set).

This unreasonable drama reaction has led anet to act like they did. They cannot balance mesmer in a sensible way because the community doesn't want a balanced mesmer, they are only fine as long as mesmer is nerfed. Unfortunately, when this trend and behavior extends for years, surprise surprise, that's what we end up with.

Once you have experience with several profession you realize how much higher the bar is set for mesmer compared to others. How much you need to chain skills and mechanics to achieve mediocre results, when others is 1 button = 8k AoE damage or speading condis faster than covid. And how your sustain is entirely based on limited evades and the few invuls/blocks that are easily outplayed, when others is let me show you how I spend 20s chaining evades/invuls/blocks or how my sustained healing beats your DPS.

My suggestion, forget about mesmer and have fun with anything else.

The community doesn't want a glorified pet class oppressing the rest of the playerbase because in the end , the only time when mesmer became popular was when
pet specs
were viable like core sword phantasm camper - chrono bunker and staff camper IH condi mirage...basically every time mesmer had access to some brainless low effort=huge reward buid.

I remember learning that core phantasm build back in the days, signet of illusions was used ...can't remember and the build was all about keeping the phantasm alive , it was dealing 5-6k dmg while you could go tanky...took one day to learn it..then we had chrono bunker...urghhhh...finally condi mirage..god.

Oh and blur into stealth into dodge evasive reflect into distortion into stealth into blur again into something else like chaos field...that's not something..."easily outplayed" lol, that's an invulnerability chain not even unblockable go through because we're talking about
evasion frames acting as an invulnerability
....time to face reality, GW2 mesmer got nothing of the complex class in GW1, the current one is simply a badly designed super duellist with easily abusing mechanics

At this point who cares. The only thing that mesmers with common sense do now is run like a chicken when a bruiser with sustain or a revenan/herald appears on the screen, also when they smell a thief even if they can't watch them. But if at some point someone discover something to make them shine, it'll be obliterated again asap. The past is history, when someone with "illusion" was working to make mesmers a thing, the nighmare is the future. Now, better play something else.

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yea the one dodge doesn't keep me from playing. and I think mirage is ment to be a condi spec, because of nomad's defense. but at the same time all other classes seem to be overlooked. mostly firebrand. since gw2 tries to make it similiar to gw1 with giving classes aspects of another class we have this nonsense. Now I hope we get a no lission spec for cantha release. then peopel won't complain about stuff they lie about or don't seem to care to further look into. If IH was the issue you wouldn't complain about mesmer's condi dmg.

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"Ansau.7326" said:As someone who has mained mesmer since gw2 launch, I've realized there is a thing with anet not being comfortable with mesmers staying relevant in big scale fights. At the beggining we had glamour confusion build but it was destroyed like 6 months after game release. Later we had boonshare but it only lasted less than a year until it became subpar. And finally we had minstrel mantra chrono which was also destroyed 1 year after it was born.

But beyond that, in the recent years anet has taken a very dull and toxic approach to balance mesmer by adding huge trade offs, and the worst part is it seems anet doesn't has any intention to revert it. Mesmer is doomed to live with trade off mechanics that work against its main ones.
  • Core: Overnerfed core specs because elites "are" too strong.
  • Chrono: No IP in an elite based on shatters.
  • Mirage: 1 dodge in an elite based on dodges.

In Vanilla, mesmer was one of the hardest classes to play, with complex damage setups but without any of the passive sustain most other professions had (clone death build was the exception, but an exclusive WvW dueling build has never been relevant for anet or gw2).

With HoT and new trait system based on specs, anet finally put mesmer in a similar level as the rest. Suddenly, the community realized mesmer being equal as others was not ok and the doom of mesmer began.Happened with chrono at the beggining (apparently it was ok for druids, scrappers and guards to be unkillable tanks but not chrono), happened with mirage (apparently it was ok for thiefs and weavers to jump and evade through everything but not for mirages), and happened for core power mesmer (it is ok for thieves, soulbeasts and holos to cc+oneshot you from stealth with 2-3 skills but not for mesmers when you burn half of your skill set).

This unreasonable drama reaction has led anet to act like they did. They cannot balance mesmer in a sensible way because the community doesn't want a balanced mesmer, they are only fine as long as mesmer is nerfed. Unfortunately, when this trend and behavior extends for years, surprise surprise, that's what we end up with.

Once you have experience with several profession you realize how much higher the bar is set for mesmer compared to others. How much you need to chain skills and mechanics to achieve mediocre results, when others is 1 button = 8k AoE damage or speading condis faster than covid. And how your sustain is entirely based on limited evades and the few invuls/blocks that are easily outplayed, when others is let me show you how I spend 20s chaining evades/invuls/blocks or how my sustained healing beats your DPS.

My suggestion, forget about mesmer and have fun with anything else.

The community doesn't want a glorified pet class oppressing the rest of the playerbase because in the end , the only time when mesmer became popular was when
pet specs
were viable like core sword phantasm camper - chrono bunker and staff camper IH condi mirage...basically every time mesmer had access to some brainless low effort=huge reward buid.

I remember learning that core phantasm build back in the days, signet of illusions was used ...can't remember and the build was all about keeping the phantasm alive , it was dealing 5-6k dmg while you could go tanky...took one day to learn it..then we had chrono bunker...urghhhh...finally condi mirage..god.

Oh and blur into stealth into dodge evasive reflect into distortion into stealth into blur again into something else like chaos field...that's not something..."easily outplayed" lol, that's an invulnerability chain not even unblockable go through because we're talking about
evasion frames acting as an invulnerability
....time to face reality, GW2 mesmer got nothing of the complex class in GW1, the current one is simply a badly designed super duellist with easily abusing mechanics

Lol, the so called glorified pet class is nothing but an illusion bigger than Mesmer itself. If there is one glorified pet class that's ranger and if there is a glorified class as a whole then it's guardian.

And look, we're in 2020, it's not 2011 when we were discovering gw2 would be a different game.Gw1 didn't have guards or engis, gw2 doesn't have monks or ritualists. I never get what's this fuzz of crying that Mesmer is not being like in gw1, we are in a freaking different game.

Core Phantasm... Good joke that it didn't made it past 2012 with the nerfs and once initial meta settle down.Chrono bunker lasted just few months like Chrono Phantasm did. If anything this game needs this, current broken condi rev is about to last more than Chrono broken versions did.

The rest is nothing but same rethoric I was explaining, anet gave Mesmer same treatment as others with elites and that's a problem for people...It's a problem that Mesmer has to burn their entire deffensive skill set to survive while others do the same by playing piano weapon skills or sit over their passive trait sustain.

Mesmer is doomed to be irrelevant because of a biased mentality like yours. Me or other Mesmer mains don't have any problem, we either move on from this game or sit in anything else that carry us.The only suffering is gw2.

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@Leap Of Faith.8263 said:Mesmer is no fun in wvw anymore. Been trying to make mirage work in wvw but it doesn’t work. Lack defense, already squishy, other class can so easily outsustain you without even trying. Mirage is probably the worst elite spec to play in wvw currently. It even beats druid.If anyone find something viable to play then do post on forums, will give it a try.Trailblazer condi mirage with double energy sigil and endurance food is 100% viable in wvw. You have tons of dodges. You just can't chain them anymore to absurd evasion levels, because your endurance pool is capped at 50.

If you start arguing now that you don't want to play condi and you don't want to use these sigils, but you want to play mirage, then let me tell you:

I can't play condi reaper, I can't play power core necro (both is not viable). And I don't even need to try to roam on any necro build without rune of speed. Welcome at the level of the rest of the classes with limited viable options. Mirage has been overpowered long enough.

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@KrHome.1920 said:

@Leap Of Faith.8263 said:Mesmer is no fun in wvw anymore. Been trying to make mirage work in wvw but it doesn’t work. Lack defense, already squishy, other class can so easily outsustain you without even trying. Mirage is probably the worst elite spec to play in wvw currently. It even beats druid.If anyone find something viable to play then do post on forums, will give it a try.Trailblazer condi mirage with double energy sigil and endurance food is 100% viable in wvw.

If you start arguing now that you don't want to play condi and you don't want to use these sigils, but you want to play mirage, then let me tell you:

I can't play condi reaper, I can't play power core necro. And I don't even need to try to roam on any necro build without rune of speed. Welcome at the level of the rest of the classes with limited viable options. Mirage has been overpowered long enough.

Food is for newbies.And yes condi mirage is viable on wvw (roaming), for one reason:
  • people suck in wvw.

And the build that's viable is a kitten chore, boring af.

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@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Leap Of Faith.8263 said:Mesmer is no fun in wvw anymore. Been trying to make mirage work in wvw but it doesn’t work. Lack defense, already squishy, other class can so easily outsustain you without even trying. Mirage is probably the worst elite spec to play in wvw currently. It even beats druid.If anyone find something viable to play then do post on forums, will give it a try.Trailblazer condi mirage with double energy sigil and endurance food is 100% viable in wvw.

If you start arguing now that you don't want to play condi and you don't want to use these sigils, but you want to play mirage, then let me tell you:

I can't play condi reaper, I can't play power core necro. And I don't even need to try to roam on any necro build without rune of speed. Welcome at the level of the rest of the classes with limited viable options. Mirage has been overpowered long enough.

Food is for newbies.The food is irrelevant as there is enough vigor and endurance via the sigils. But it completes the package and that's why it has to be named.

And yes condi mirage is viable on wvw (roaming), for one reason:
  • people suck in wvw.Maybe you suck at the build if you can't beat competent opponents with it. It's viable. End of Story.

And the build that's viable is a kitten chore, boring af.Then play another spec. I hate scourge and no one cares. That's how it is.
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@KrHome.1920 said:

@Leap Of Faith.8263 said:Mesmer is no fun in wvw anymore. Been trying to make mirage work in wvw but it doesn’t work. Lack defense, already squishy, other class can so easily outsustain you without even trying. Mirage is probably the worst elite spec to play in wvw currently. It even beats druid.If anyone find something viable to play then do post on forums, will give it a try.Trailblazer condi mirage with double energy sigil and endurance food is 100% viable in wvw.

If you start arguing now that you don't want to play condi and you don't want to use these sigils, but you want to play mirage, then let me tell you:

I can't play condi reaper, I can't play power core necro. And I don't even need to try to roam on any necro build without rune of speed. Welcome at the level of the rest of the classes with limited viable options. Mirage has been overpowered long enough.

Food is for newbies.The food is irrelevant as there is enough vigor and endurance via the sigils. But it completes the package and that's why it has to be named.

And yes condi mirage is viable on wvw (roaming), for one reason:
  • people suck in wvw.Maybe you suck at the build if you can't beat competent opponents with it. It's viable. End of Story.

And the build that's viable is a kitten chore, boring af.Then play another spec. I hate scourge and no one cares. That's how it is.

Naa, I can kill 1vX with it easily.But the point is still true, people suck a lot in wvw.I play another spec, power mesmer (and still kill 1vX) reinforcing the previous point even more.

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@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Leap Of Faith.8263 said:Mesmer is no fun in wvw anymore. Been trying to make mirage work in wvw but it doesn’t work. Lack defense, already squishy, other class can so easily outsustain you without even trying. Mirage is probably the worst elite spec to play in wvw currently. It even beats druid.If anyone find something viable to play then do post on forums, will give it a try.Trailblazer condi mirage with double energy sigil and endurance food is 100% viable in wvw.

If you start arguing now that you don't want to play condi and you don't want to use these sigils, but you want to play mirage, then let me tell you:

I can't play condi reaper, I can't play power core necro. And I don't even need to try to roam on any necro build without rune of speed. Welcome at the level of the rest of the classes with limited viable options. Mirage has been overpowered long enough.

Food is for newbies.The food is irrelevant as there is enough vigor and endurance via the sigils. But it completes the package and that's why it has to be named.

And yes condi mirage is viable on wvw (roaming), for one reason:
  • people suck in wvw.Maybe you suck at the build if you can't beat competent opponents with it. It's viable. End of Story.

And the build that's viable is a kitten chore, boring af.Then play another spec. I hate scourge and no one cares. That's how it is.

Naa, I can kill 1vX with it easily.But the point is still true, people suck a lot in wvw.I play another spec, power mesmer (and still kill 1vX) reinforcing the previous point even more.

i went into WvW on my fractal berserker gear as core power shatter and 3 people couldnt kill me when I was just vibing about, wvw players are super bad lol

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@KrHome.1920 said:

@Leap Of Faith.8263 said:Mesmer is no fun in wvw anymore. Been trying to make mirage work in wvw but it doesn’t work. Lack defense, already squishy, other class can so easily outsustain you without even trying. Mirage is probably the worst elite spec to play in wvw currently. It even beats druid.If anyone find something viable to play then do post on forums, will give it a try.Trailblazer condi mirage with double energy sigil and endurance food is 100% viable in wvw.

If you start arguing now that you don't want to play condi and you don't want to use these sigils, but you want to play mirage, then let me tell you:

I can't play condi reaper, I can't play power core necro. And I don't even need to try to roam on any necro build without rune of speed. Welcome at the level of the rest of the classes with limited viable options. Mirage has been overpowered long enough.

Food is for newbies.The food is irrelevant as there is enough vigor and endurance via the sigils. But it completes the package and that's why it has to be named.

And yes condi mirage is viable on wvw (roaming), for one reason:
  • people suck in wvw.Maybe you suck at the build if you can't beat competent opponents with it. It's viable. End of Story.

And the build that's viable is a kitten chore, boring af.Then play another spec. I hate scourge and no one cares. That's how it is.

Viable? It can only played in a single rol and with a single build. Guardians with their specializations and others are viable with multiple builds and roles everywhere.

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@Heika.5403 said:

@Leap Of Faith.8263 said:Mesmer is no fun in wvw anymore. Been trying to make mirage work in wvw but it doesn’t work. Lack defense, already squishy, other class can so easily outsustain you without even trying. Mirage is probably the worst elite spec to play in wvw currently. It even beats druid.If anyone find something viable to play then do post on forums, will give it a try.Trailblazer condi mirage with double energy sigil and endurance food is 100% viable in wvw.

If you start arguing now that you don't want to play condi and you don't want to use these sigils, but you want to play mirage, then let me tell you:

I can't play condi reaper, I can't play power core necro. And I don't even need to try to roam on any necro build without rune of speed. Welcome at the level of the rest of the classes with limited viable options. Mirage has been overpowered long enough.

Food is for newbies.The food is irrelevant as there is enough vigor and endurance via the sigils. But it completes the package and that's why it has to be named.

And yes condi mirage is viable on wvw (roaming), for one reason:
  • people suck in wvw.Maybe you suck at the build if you can't beat competent opponents with it. It's viable. End of Story.

And the build that's viable is a kitten chore, boring af.Then play another spec. I hate scourge and no one cares. That's how it is.

Viable? Is can only played in a single rol and with a single build. Guardians with their specializations and others are viable with multiple builds and roles everywhere.

comparing to guard is unfair since they are broken in every gamemode lol

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@KrHome.1920 said:

@Leap Of Faith.8263 said:Mesmer is no fun in wvw anymore. Been trying to make mirage work in wvw but it doesn’t work. Lack defense, already squishy, other class can so easily outsustain you without even trying. Mirage is probably the worst elite spec to play in wvw currently. It even beats druid.If anyone find something viable to play then do post on forums, will give it a try.I can't play condi reaper, I can't play power core necro (both is not viable). And I don't even need to try to roam on any necro build without rune of speed. Welcome at the level of the rest of the classes with limited viable options. Mirage has been overpowered long enough.

Wait, what ?Are you comparing a GWENR class, moreover the god of teamfight since day 1 who get 10 more lootbags in few months than I did since 7 years to mesmers ?Thanks to powercreep the first become better to little scale while the second never touch the first teamfight level.I fail to see the rest of classes efficiency in WvW on my mesmer sry, when I play gwenr classes, my bags emptiers faster than anything, when I play ranger or thief, I die less than with my main mesmer while having easier damage output.What not to read thoses days.

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@KrHome.1920 said:

@Leap Of Faith.8263 said:Mesmer is no fun in wvw anymore. Been trying to make mirage work in wvw but it doesn’t work. Lack defense, already squishy, other class can so easily outsustain you without even trying. Mirage is probably the worst elite spec to play in wvw currently. It even beats druid.If anyone find something viable to play then do post on forums, will give it a try.Trailblazer condi mirage with double energy sigil and endurance food is 100% viable in wvw. You have tons of dodges. You just can't chain them anymore to absurd evasion levels, because your endurance pool is capped at 50.

If you start arguing now that you don't want to play condi and you don't want to use these sigils, but you want to play mirage, then let me tell you:

I can't play condi reaper, I can't play power core necro (both is not viable). And I don't even need to try to roam on any necro build without rune of speed. Welcome at the level of the rest of the classes with limited viable options. Mirage has been overpowered long enough.

Did i talk about roaming? Please read again.Roaming is one of the aspects of wvw.One of the guys on top explains why roaming part sucks pretty well.Since you talked about necro, in case you have been in wvw you will know half the squads are made of necro, for a good reason.

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@KrHome.1920 said:

@Leap Of Faith.8263 said:Mesmer is no fun in wvw anymore. Been trying to make mirage work in wvw but it doesn’t work. Lack defense, already squishy, other class can so easily outsustain you without even trying. Mirage is probably the worst elite spec to play in wvw currently. It even beats druid.If anyone find something viable to play then do post on forums, will give it a try.Trailblazer condi mirage with double energy sigil and endurance food is 100% viable in wvw. You have tons of dodges. You just can't chain them anymore to absurd evasion levels, because your endurance pool is capped at 50.

If you start arguing now that you don't want to play condi and you don't want to use these sigils, but you want to play mirage, then let me tell you:

I can't play condi reaper, I can't play power core necro (both is not viable). And I don't even need to try to roam on any necro build without rune of speed. Welcome at the level of the rest of the classes with limited viable options. Mirage has been overpowered long enough.

Everything is viable with trailblazer, double energy sigil and endurance food. I play Chrono right now and use in addition adventurer Rune and guess what, I can 1vX with it... god my brain hurts reading something like this.

Edit: sigil not signet -.-

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@scerevisiae.1972 said:

@pninak.1069 said:I think mirage is ment to be a condi spec

if that were true, wy does condi damage suck so hard on mesmer except vs single targets?

it's not even possible to come up with a gimmicky WVW/AOE condi spec that is even close to being good enough to play.

Summarizing it to mirage is a single target condition spec. And not even best at its very specific job. On top of my head i can think of condi rev, it does both aoe or single target better. Both of these apply torment majorly. But to apply 13-17 stacks of torment on enemy mirage has to 1st generate 3 clones then a shatter, a mirage cloak etc. On rev, you start mallyx elite, mace 3 and a few auto attacks and bam you have 20 torment stacks. My point being we can so the same thing that a condi mirage does, but with less effort and ease on rev.

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@Leap Of Faith.8263 said:Summarizing it to mirage is a single target condition spec.

yeah it's terrible design in a game where AOE is a major/critical part of 3 of 3 game modes.

back on topic:I tried berserker double greatsword + double energy sigil in WVW and while the burst is decent, an equivalently-geared staff weaver is way more destructive and just as survivable, so something is broken.

IMHO blatantly obvious 1 dodge in WVW was bad idea and needs buffed.

While i am whinging, i think mesmer traits are really badly organised.

IH feels absolutely mandatory, it's the defining trait of the mirage spec, should be baseline. New GM trait - create a mirage mirror when you gain stealth, plus shattering a mirage mirror does more dmg over a larger area.

Deception skills are very meh, especially Crystal Sands is very underpowered compared to e.g. necro serpent siphon and most people think that is crap too.

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@Yoci.2481 said:Mesmer is the duelist profession.

;)And it still is. But now, you have more diversity of roles:

  • In PvE: The Duelist of ambient creatures. Their terror.
  • In PvP: The assisted Assistant. Or the maiden, as you prefer to call it. You can't do nothing alone, but if you stop running you're finished, sigh.
  • In WvW: The Joke. (Not the Joker). With Otaku role compatibility.

    ;)

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