Fractals: community is being irrational

[AllNightPlayer.1286]

I don’t understand the LFG community as their demands are irrational.My problem is, that I finally want to start challenge mode fractals, but there’s no chance to ever get into a group. I’ve done T4 fractals on daily basis for at least two years. I’ve read those nice guides and saw all those videos about the challenge modes. Of course, you have to do it for real, too, in order to really learn the CM’s mechanics. But currently, there’s no way, I can ever enter a group, since I—of course—haven’t earned my KP yet.I know those typical demands, like P + F, which I follow along. But the CM is such a shut tight circle at the moment, it’s impossible to get in—and I’m not even a “newbie” to this game. And don’t tell me to wait for a “training lfg” or something like this. In all my years in EU, I never saw those things pop up in fractal lfg, unlike raids, there you see them from time to time.

So tell me, how can a fractal T4 “veteran”, who finally wants do some more challenging fractal content, ever get in CM groups?

[Excursion.9752]

I suggest you try to start your own static group or look for a guild that has a focus on Fractals. Then you could find like minded people probably having the same problems you are encountering.

[Linken.6345]

Dont wait for training groups for fractals, start your own.

[Infusion.7149]

People in LFG just want their dailies done , which is why the bar is ever increasing. If you want to start on anything just make your own group with people you know IMO

[Kaldo.4170]

Fractal LFG is a joke, I see people requesting healers and P+F for tier 3 recs. As long as people know what are they doing, T4 can be done with just pots and without a healer, everything else is just a waste and a crutch. CM is a different story but most of the requirements in it are just as absurd and over the top.

[ArchonWing.9480]

Find a regular t4 group and if it does well, just casually ask if they would like to take a shot at 99CM afterwards. It helps if it's a daily. Sometimes this works, sometimes it doesn't. If you fail, it's all good. Ideally, you already want to have a firebrigade since that's the best chance of success and no funky instabilities like no pain no gain.

This works better than just asking people you've never played with to do a cm with you, or waiting 30 minutes for people to never come. You want people that aren't in a hurry and are willing to try. I won't lie; this probably has a low chance of succeeding. However, it is better than 0!

Also if you have a good run with someone, add them to your f list and tell them to add you. You may build up a group eventually.

[Bridget Morrigan.1752]

Training groups exist--that's how I learned to CM--but you're right in that they're rare enough to be almost invisible if you're not on at the right times. I think those times might be later in the evening, a few hours after reset. I do them on Saturdays sometimes, and you'll usually see it advertised not as training but "chill but know fights" because I am not always in the mood to explain every mechanic, and I keep having to replace my headset. (Not this Saturday, though, because I'm getting close to Fractal Goddess and am just anxious to get it done.)

I agree that joining a fractal guild is probably your best place to start. CM's is one of those places where you can meet people that you can cultivate relationships with over time and end up with people that you enjoy playing with who can pull their own weight. So consider it a social exercise as much or more than a generating killproof exercise.

[Hex.2579]

Join a fractal guild, or any that advertise they'd teach you. Training groups do exist, I agree. I do trainings a lot. Though, most of the time, I lack people to even make a group whole. Since I just do it for fun and whenever I can. It boils down to a waiting game hoping someone would join up to do it with. People don't generally gravitate towards training groups. Bless them, they must have had bad experiences in the past. So it goes both ways for players wanting to join. Demands, supplies, all that jazz. Fractal guilds have a lot more competent players who are inclined to help because it's in their to-do daily tasks anyways.Training runs I've done, people aren't as bad as most folks believe to be. Actually, they're much better players in terms of "awareness", rather than just stand, stack, and dps like a bot.

CMs are easy, except a certain parts that are hard hitting when it comes to new people who aren't familiar, and not used to the cluster fuk AoE. That's about it. It's kinda sad that most don't want to take the time to play with new players, and just advertise absurd requirements to get things done quick. Trust me, CMs aren't bad at all. You should advertise on your own, some will join up. It may take a bit but the group will fill up. Ask someone to take the reign, they'd be happy to help. Otherwise, join up a fractal guild/group.

[AllNightPlayer.1286]

I just tried a run recently with a group, which didn’t want KP. Oh my, horrible. CM might be hard, but failing the normal T4 mechanics? And I thought, I wouldn’t do good, since I’ve never been in there myself.

Anyway! So, the only solution would be joining a guild? My, my. As I said, the community is killing itself. There’s a reason, why raids are currently trending to be abandoned content like dungeons.

[lare.5129]

want cms +t4? and don't have kp? So make your own group. cms+t4 no kp.Also can append whit some class requirements if needed: scoure/scrapper/druidp+f for cms no one write. pf is default value for that :))

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@AllNightPlayer.1286 said:I just tried a run recently with a group, which didn’t want KP. Oh my, horrible. CM might be hard, but failing the normal T4 mechanics? And I thought, I wouldn’t do good, since I’ve never been in there myself.

Anyway! So, the only solution would be joining a guild? My, my. As I said, the community is killing itself. There’s a reason, why raids are currently trending to be abandoned content like dungeons.

Did you not read your own post? You've just described exactly why groups ask for KP to join them. It isn't irrational, it's common sense.

What is irrational is to enter the hardest fractal tier and not have all 3 pots, food and utility.What is irrational is to enter T4 without an understanding of the basic mechanics of the fight, which can be learned by playing in T1-T3What is irrational is thinking that since T4 gives the best loot, an individual player has earned the right to get it despite poor understanding of this profession, rotation, or the game in general.

I'm in the same boat as you, the barrier to entry into LFG is why I haven't bothered with CMs (that and having to do the same fractals every night, even if they are abridged, just doesn't interest me), but I wouldn't join a no KP LFG group for exactly the reason you describe, as I see that all the time these days in regular T4 LFGs.

So you think people asking for KP is a problem? No, they are the 'effect'....the 'cause' is quite something else.

But the advice given above is correct. There are fractal focused guilds that do CM training (no LFG), and then do party groups with low KP requirements so people can practice and get the KPs they need.

[AllNightPlayer.1286]

But they’re blocking the entrance for new people. In normal fractals, you have tiers you can climb. But CM? Either you’ve done it before or you’re out.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@"AllNightPlayer.1286" said:But they’re blocking the entrance for new people. In normal fractals, you have tiers you can climb. But CM? Either you’ve done it before or you’re out.

That is an accurate statement, but what I was saying in my post is there is a reason why the players put the KP requirement in place, and you yourself have seen what can happen when there is no gatekeeper.

Should players have to join a guild to get CM training, or have 100 KP in their bags to be able to join a group? No. In a perfect world there would be no need for that, because in that world, the only people who would join a group for CMs would be those capable of handling the content. As you said yourself "failing at normal T4 mechanics". Those people shouldn't be joining groups unless it was clearly understood that they are new, and then those who just want to get dailies done would put something like "EXP" in the title, and then players new to CMs wouldn't join that group.

But we don't live in a perfect world.Players do join groups they have no business joining.So the community has to figure out a way to use the LFG, but also ensuring they have as problem-free a run as possible (still no guarantees to that ofc).

These days I see people coming in to T4s who have no business being there. Power Reapers doing less DPS than the Alacrity Renegade, and doing 1/3rd of the damage I'm doing in the same group on my Power Reaper. Had they been playing something squishier like a Dragonhunter or Ele, they would have been downed repeatedly; instead they facetank it while in shroud, stay up, but do pitiful damage. I can just imagine what these types of players would do in a CM, and I fully understand why players wouldn't want to get grouped with them.

At one point in time I did fractals daily, at the same time, and I formed a quasi static: 2 support and 1 DPS, and we would LFG the rest. Smooth sailing since the two LFG slots would be frequently filled by players who had run with us before, and we were all at around the same level of skill, and would get our dailies/recs done in about 45 minutes...and we're talking back in the days of Birds + Slippery Slope (if you think Siren's or Twilight is a challenge now...).

But these days I do them sporadically, so I can't be in a static, and I'm forced to use LFG, which honestly makes me want to do them less and less, since it's a roll of the dice whether or not I have a smooth run, or people who can't handle solar blooms on Arkk (true story).

There is nothing wrong with players wanting to learn or train for content - we were all new to it at one point. But when players who have 100, 500, or more KP in their bags log in, they just want to go in and 1-shot the instance and get the daily done. Maybe later they would host a training group, or run with some new players, but for that moment, they just want to be in and out and collect their chests, and with the attitude the GW2 community has about this content, requiring KP is the only tool they have.

As I said, the requirement for KP is the 'effect', not the 'cause'.