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I feel like it might be time we get a new class.


Thornwolf.9721

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As the title suggests I feel like it might be a good Idea to make a new class, reason being is that E-specs are great and all but upon further deep thought about it they only homogenize classes to be closer in tool kits. In reality all they do is typically add a weapon we can't use on X class with similar animations to Y class which functions close to the same, then we get utilities we don't already have access too. All this does is offer us new ways to play X class but it also makes it closer to Y class, in reality to more E-specs we get the closer we get to all being the same which is not how a game should go about working with their classes. (Id still like to see them, even if we got a new class.)

The Perks of a new class:

  1. New skill types that the class itself brings
  2. Potential new weapons, which can maybe be worked into E-specs which then can add to classes like warrior who are running out of weapons
  3. A new theme
  4. A new reason to play older content with the new shiny
  5. Potential to bring in something unique that is guild wars 2 (Revenant, messmer are the only guild wars exclusive classes. Could use more.)
  6. Creative freedom for the dev's that are not limited to, or linked to the classes we currently have
  7. Potential for some lore tid-bits
  8. Expansion of the repertoire for which guild was can claim to cater too.
  9. The chance to do something done poorly elsewhere, and make it better here.
  10. the chance to make something unique, which can attract new people and can be the poster child of the expansion. (Much like the guild wars expansions. Factions, nightfall.)

This then could even maybe wink and nod at things we have had, but never really had a chance to play with. They could for example bring in a Werebeast class, theme it around the norn but not link it explicitly to the norn. It could be a shaman and follow the teachings of the spirits of the wild, as we know anyone can follow their footsteps and thus anyone could in theory and given enough time become a shaman. (The elite specs could he havroun, and Lost Spirit)

They could bring in a golem-mancer, who can climb into golems or summon a small army of them to do the dirty work?

These classes could be made to choose their armor weight so you can decide how you want them to dress, and the cosmeitcs you wear so that way it opens up customization and potential in the creation process. This also gives them a reason to revisit character creation and customization; Classes should effect how your character looks and functions in the world and say a warrior could have scars and a necromancer could have additional warpaint or maybe even horns(For non-charr)? This then would make each class not only feel unique, but your character who is your avatar within the world to better reflect you as a person and the type of character it is you're trying to play.

I feel like sure it might upset balance, but won't E-specs as well? I mean balance is a fragile thing and to maintain it becoming stagnant is a must and I feel like guild wars might as well embrace how outlandish some of its classes can be and add to the roster rather than just try and make band-aid specs. Id love to see both, but if I had to choose I think Id pick a new class over E-specs because lets be honest? A new class is a true new way to play a game. An E-spec is just a new addition which borrows from other classes, to fill a gap your class might not be able to fill or potentially a playstyle your class can't run with due to its current set up. This isn't bad but its also not the best way to move forward, in an ideal world we could get new classes AND E-specs.

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I don't think that we will get another new class or even should.

Riot intentionally designed the revenant to fill the missing spot for a 3rd heavy armor using class and they surely don't want to break this symmetry again. Also giving the class the choice which kind of armor to wear will just result in almost everyone going for the heavy armor. You should consider that the 3 armor types are not equal when it comes to stats, heavy armor gives you more armor in the game. So the choice is not just about visuals, but also gameplay. And the big majority of players will choose the option that maxes out their stats.

Another point to consider: You say the new class could bring in a new thematic. But I think that every new thematic you could possibly come up with can already get tied in another existing class through elite specs. Which is exactly what elite specs are supposed to do, expanding the thematics of a class and gameplay.

Look at the 2 examples you have given for a new class:

  • Werebeast: You are channeling the spirits of the wild, transform into a werebeast. Thematically, this screams ranger. Can easily be made into a ranger elite spec
  • Golemancer: This obviously steps into the thematical niche of the engineer. While I personally don't want a golemancer elite spec for the engineer soon (the next elite spec should focus on chemical warfare in my opinion), if we are ever going to get a golemancer then they will surely become an elite spec for the engineer.

In general, there is just 1 point in the list of benefits of a new class which can't also get achieved through elite specs: experiencing old content with a new class. Which is also just partially true, since you can go do old content with a new elite spec as well, you are basically just missing out on the experience to level a new class....Creating a new class doesn't have enough benefits to get implemented, they should focus on delivering new well designed elite specs instead in the future.

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@"kharmin.7683" said:We can't get balance between the classes that we have now. Adding more would only complicate things further.

Balance is an illusion that is unreachable, not unless every class is the same and they play identically.. Unique mechanics, buffs, class Identity all spit in the face of "true balance" I honestly feel like we are in an OK space and once the next part of this balance patch goes live we might be in an even better place. A new class is needed, E-specs go against balance too and bring EVEN more balance issues than a new class would.

A new class is easier to balance, than a spec that interacts with existing class mechanics and class pieces that may or may not make a specific spec overpowered due to unknown variables.. Players will make variants of builds of which the dev's may or may not think about. When you say we you really mean "Me" Or "I" and honestly I feel your in a minority. A very vocal and otherwise willfully ignorant minority who poop on EVERYTHING anyone wants no matter what it is, it could be guild content, classes, more mounts or whatever else. If you don't agree that is completely fine but I Feel as though you're 100% wrong and im going to discredit and ignore your points you may bring up, as MMO-RPGS need big content to bring in new people and existing players who might of left.

New classes do this, WoW and BDO has proven this as has ESO and now that I think about it eventually all games add classes and while E-specs may semi-cover this we have had two generations of them. In an ideal world we would get a new class, and the third generation of E-specs with the new class utilizing new mechanics and not requiring an E-spec this expansion due to its entire foundation being new and having HoT, PoF and Canthan Mechanics considered when it was designed. It lacking an E-spec now, means its core can be built to be strong on its own and then when it does get an E-spec it won't be hindered by it (Much like Rev was due to herald.)

E-specs won't be a huge selling point, it will be an attention grabber but its not truly new. We need new, not more of the status quo and since a race is out of the question and many people don't want a new player race... why not a new class? It is something that can effect everyone, from meta to basic appearence and unique mechanics along with theme? It's time.. And its good to bring it up due to them being early on in development of the expansion, I want them consider this and maybe bring in more unique guild wars/tyrian classes that stand alone when compared to their competition. (It can be a driving force to bring people back, people play wow because of their classes and other games not filling the fantasy. I can't leave guild wars due to revenant being so interesting, and unique and other games have nothing like it. This is healthy for the game)

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@Kodama.6453 said:I don't think that we will get another new class or even should.

Riot intentionally designed the revenant to fill the missing spot for a 3rd heavy armor using class and they surely don't want to break this symmetry again. Also giving the class the choice which kind of armor to wear will just result in almost everyone going for the heavy armor. You should consider that the 3 armor types are not equal when it comes to stats, heavy armor gives you more armor in the game. So the choice is not just about visuals, but also gameplay. And the big majority of players will choose the option that maxes out their stats.

Another point to consider: You say the new class could bring in a new thematic. But I think that every new thematic you could possibly come up with can already get tied in another existing class through elite specs. Which is exactly what elite specs are supposed to do, expanding the thematics of a class and gameplay.

Look at the 2 examples you have given for a new class:

  • Werebeast: You are channeling the spirits of the wild, transform into a werebeast. Thematically, this screams ranger. Can easily be made into a ranger elite spec
  • Golemancer: This obviously steps into the thematical niche of the engineer. While I personally don't want a golemancer elite spec for the engineer soon (the next elite spec should focus on chemical warfare in my opinion), if we are ever going to get a golemancer then they will surely become an elite spec for the engineer.

In general, there is just 1 point in the list of benefits of a new class which can't also get achieved through elite specs: experiencing old content with a new class. Which is also just partially true, since you can go do old content with a new elite spec as well, you are basically just missing out on the experience to level a new class....Creating a new class doesn't have enough benefits to get implemented, they should focus on delivering new well designed elite specs instead in the future.

I said in an ideal world we would get both, E-specs do not equate to new classes. Especially on marketability.

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Not a good idea, new class would be an absurd amount of work.

Not only would you need a new class but it would have to come with 2 elite specs to make it "fair"Add to that it would imbalance the armour tiers.. adding a new light would make people want a new medium and heavy too so they wouldn't be able to add just 1 new class they'd need to add 3 and each of them would need 2 specs each too meaning to make adding new classes fair we'd need 3 new professions with 6 new elite specs, and then there's the balancing problem..

Just adding 9 new elite specs per expansion is already a headache.. adding 3 new professions now would be a foolish thing to do and likely do far more harm than good.

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@"Teratus.2859" said:Not a good idea, new class would be an absurd amount of work.

Not only would you need a new class but it would have to come with 2 elite specs to make it "fair"Add to that it would imbalance the armour tiers.. adding a new light would make people want a new medium and heavy too so they wouldn't be able to add just 1 new class they'd need to add 3 and each of them would need 2 specs each too meaning to make adding new classes fair we'd need 3 new professions with 6 new elite specs, and then there's the balancing problem..

Just adding 9 new elite specs per expansion is already a headache.. adding 3 new professions now would be a foolish thing to do and likely do far more harm than good.

Everything is an absurd amount of work, new maps, masteries, mounts, E-specs, guild stuff, WvW, PvP, Raids, Strikes, Visions and the list goes on? I suppose they should stop doing those as well since its an absurd level of work? I mean sure why not if it means we can get "Quality content." The arguement goes both ways friend.

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@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@"Teratus.2859" said:Not a good idea, new class would be an absurd amount of work.

Not only would you need a new class but it would have to come with 2 elite specs to make it "fair"Add to that it would imbalance the armour tiers.. adding a new light would make people want a new medium and heavy too so they wouldn't be able to add just 1 new class they'd need to add 3 and each of them would need 2 specs each too meaning to make adding new classes fair we'd need 3 new professions with 6 new elite specs, and then there's the balancing problem..

Just adding 9 new elite specs per expansion is already a headache.. adding 3 new professions now would be a foolish thing to do and likely do far more harm than good.

Everything is an absurd amount of work, new maps, masteries, mounts, E-specs, guild stuff, WvW, PvP, Raids, Strikes, Visions and the list goes on? I suppose they should stop doing those as well since its an absurd level of work? I mean sure why not if it means we can get "Quality content." The arguement goes both ways friend.

Yes but those things are expected and you could probably consider the normal amount of work for this game and has been for years.Adding new classes would be like adding another permanent work volume on top of all the current expectations.

Balancing 9 classes and 18 Elite specs is already difficult and painful enough.. with the next expansion that's potentially another 9 elite specs thrown in on top..Adding 3 whole new proffessions with 6-9 elite specs on top of that would be absurdly foolish and needlessly pointless.. I wouldn't be surprised if some classes and specs got straight up written off with that kind of workload demand.Some would claim that already happens with the current list of classes and specs.

There's good reason why some content gets ignored for a while and why so many masteries end up as irrelevant.Hell people are always complaining about this class or that class in one game mode or another, just because perfecting balancing is impossible as you said doesn't mean you should intentionally make it a total clusterkitten just for the sake of adding something new.That's very short term gains for monumental long term problems, it's just not worth it.

This is more or less the reason why Gw2's duel profession system was scrapped in the first place, not to mention why so many Gw1 skills got axed.As much as I've love more skills and duel professions it would totally break the game.. same as new classes would at this point.Elite Specs are the best solution to this problem even if they also contribute to it.

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@Teratus.2859 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:Not a good idea, new class would be an absurd amount of work.

Not only would you need a new class but it would have to come with 2 elite specs to make it "fair"Add to that it would imbalance the armour tiers.. adding a new light would make people want a new medium and heavy too so they wouldn't be able to add just 1 new class they'd need to add 3 and each of them would need 2 specs each too meaning to make adding new classes fair we'd need 3 new professions with 6 new elite specs, and then there's the balancing problem..

Just adding 9 new elite specs per expansion is already a headache.. adding 3 new professions now would be a foolish thing to do and likely do far more harm than good.

Everything is an absurd amount of work, new maps, masteries, mounts, E-specs, guild stuff, WvW, PvP, Raids, Strikes, Visions and the list goes on? I suppose they should stop doing those as well since its an absurd level of work? I mean sure why not if it means we can get "Quality content." The arguement goes both ways friend.

Yes but those things are expected and you could probably consider the normal amount of work for this game and has been for years.Adding new classes would be like adding another permanent work volume on top of all the current expectations.

Balancing 9 classes and 18 Elite specs is already difficult and painful enough.. with the next expansion that's potentially another 9 elite specs thrown in on top..Adding 3 whole new proffessions with 6-9 elite specs on top of that would be absurdly foolish and needlessly pointless.. I wouldn't be surprised if some classes and specs got straight up written off with that kind of workload demand.Some would claim that already happens with the current list of classes and specs.

There's good reason why some content gets ignored for a while and why so many masteries end up as irrelevant.Hell people are always complaining about this class or that class in one game mode or another, just because perfecting balancing is impossible as you said doesn't mean you should intentionally make it a total clusterkitten just for the sake of adding something new.That's very short term gains for monumental long term problems, it's just not worth it.

This is more or less the reason why Gw2's duel profession system was scrapped in the first place, not to mention why so many Gw1 skills got axed.As much as I've love more skills and duel professions it would totally break the game.. same as new classes would at this point.Elite Specs are the best solution to this problem even if they also contribute to it.

I actually think they could Axe the E-specs together, and compromise by making three new classes with two E-specs each. This means that sure our current roster would get nothing new but there are TONS of people I've spoken too who don't want E-specs at all.. (Insane I know)

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@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:Not a good idea, new class would be an absurd amount of work.

Not only would you need a new class but it would have to come with 2 elite specs to make it "fair"Add to that it would imbalance the armour tiers.. adding a new light would make people want a new medium and heavy too so they wouldn't be able to add just 1 new class they'd need to add 3 and each of them would need 2 specs each too meaning to make adding new classes fair we'd need 3 new professions with 6 new elite specs, and then there's the balancing problem..

Just adding 9 new elite specs per expansion is already a headache.. adding 3 new professions now would be a foolish thing to do and likely do far more harm than good.

Everything is an absurd amount of work, new maps, masteries, mounts, E-specs, guild stuff, WvW, PvP, Raids, Strikes, Visions and the list goes on? I suppose they should stop doing those as well since its an absurd level of work? I mean sure why not if it means we can get "Quality content." The arguement goes both ways friend.

Yes but those things are expected and you could probably consider the normal amount of work for this game and has been for years.Adding new classes would be like adding another permanent work volume on top of all the current expectations.

Balancing 9 classes and 18 Elite specs is already difficult and painful enough.. with the next expansion that's potentially another 9 elite specs thrown in on top..Adding 3 whole new proffessions with 6-9 elite specs on top of that would be absurdly foolish and needlessly pointless.. I wouldn't be surprised if some classes and specs got straight up written off with that kind of workload demand.Some would claim that already happens with the current list of classes and specs.

There's good reason why some content gets ignored for a while and why so many masteries end up as irrelevant.Hell people are always complaining about this class or that class in one game mode or another, just because perfecting balancing is impossible as you said doesn't mean you should intentionally make it a total clusterkitten just for the sake of adding something new.That's very short term gains for monumental long term problems, it's just not worth it.

This is more or less the reason why Gw2's duel profession system was scrapped in the first place, not to mention why so many Gw1 skills got axed.As much as I've love more skills and duel professions it would totally break the game.. same as new classes would at this point.Elite Specs are the best solution to this problem even if they also contribute to it.

I actually think they could Axe the E-specs together, and compromise by making three new classes with two E-specs each. This means that sure our current roster would get nothing new but there are TONS of people I've spoken too who don't want E-specs at all.. (Insane I know)

That might appease some people but I'd think it would disappoint more overall.

If they added new classes and give nothing to old ones many might feel cheated by it, probably more so than just not having new specs.If the new professions came with expansions too there would be no end of pay to win claims from those who only play the pvp side and don't care for buying new content.Specially if the new professions and their specs are just poorly balanced.

Pretty sure a similar thing happened when the first batch of Elite specs came out as well.The last thing a lot of people want to do with new content too is roll a whole new character, learn how to use it and and rush to the new stuff, most want to take their favourites and just jump straight on and play.Providing they came with an expansion which considering the work load required I'd assume would be the only way to do it.

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@Teratus.2859 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:Not a good idea, new class would be an absurd amount of work.

Not only would you need a new class but it would have to come with 2 elite specs to make it "fair"Add to that it would imbalance the armour tiers.. adding a new light would make people want a new medium and heavy too so they wouldn't be able to add just 1 new class they'd need to add 3 and each of them would need 2 specs each too meaning to make adding new classes fair we'd need 3 new professions with 6 new elite specs, and then there's the balancing problem..

Just adding 9 new elite specs per expansion is already a headache.. adding 3 new professions now would be a foolish thing to do and likely do far more harm than good.

Everything is an absurd amount of work, new maps, masteries, mounts, E-specs, guild stuff, WvW, PvP, Raids, Strikes, Visions and the list goes on? I suppose they should stop doing those as well since its an absurd level of work? I mean sure why not if it means we can get "Quality content." The arguement goes both ways friend.

Yes but those things are expected and you could probably consider the normal amount of work for this game and has been for years.Adding new classes would be like adding another permanent work volume on top of all the current expectations.

Balancing 9 classes and 18 Elite specs is already difficult and painful enough.. with the next expansion that's potentially another 9 elite specs thrown in on top..Adding 3 whole new proffessions with 6-9 elite specs on top of that would be absurdly foolish and needlessly pointless.. I wouldn't be surprised if some classes and specs got straight up written off with that kind of workload demand.Some would claim that already happens with the current list of classes and specs.

There's good reason why some content gets ignored for a while and why so many masteries end up as irrelevant.Hell people are always complaining about this class or that class in one game mode or another, just because perfecting balancing is impossible as you said doesn't mean you should intentionally make it a total clusterkitten just for the sake of adding something new.That's very short term gains for monumental long term problems, it's just not worth it.

This is more or less the reason why Gw2's duel profession system was scrapped in the first place, not to mention why so many Gw1 skills got axed.As much as I've love more skills and duel professions it would totally break the game.. same as new classes would at this point.Elite Specs are the best solution to this problem even if they also contribute to it.

I actually think they could Axe the E-specs together, and compromise by making three new classes with two E-specs each. This means that sure our current roster would get nothing new but there are TONS of people I've spoken too who don't want E-specs at all.. (Insane I know)

That might appease some people but I'd think it would disappoint more overall.

If they added new classes and give nothing to old ones many might feel cheated by it, probably more so than just not having new specs.If the new professions came with expansions too there would be no end of pay to win claims from those who only play the pvp side and don't care for buying new content.Specially if the new professions and their specs are just poorly balanced.

Pretty sure a similar thing happened when the first batch of Elite specs came out as well.The last thing a lot of people want to do with new content too is roll a whole new character, learn how to use it and and rush to the new stuff, most want to take their favourites and just jump straight on and play.Providing they came with an expansion which considering the work load required I'd assume would be the only way to do it.

So why not just not do any of it? Just leave classes as they are. No pay to win then yea? People will bitch no matter what they do. Might as well go big or go home at this point.. The community is upset no matter WHAT they do, or HOW they do it.

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E-specs are a major selling point of the expansions and I would guess that the big majority of people are looking forward to getting new specs to enhance their already beloved characters. Axing e-specs in favour of a new class surely won't happen.

And there are many points you didn't address. Like I said, they finally reached a balance between the armor classes with the addition of revenant. Why would they want to destroy this again by adding another class? And giving free choice on armor classes doesn't make sense gameplaywise since everyone will choose the heavy armor then anyway simply because of the armor benefit.

And e-specs are able to deliver most of the things you are asking for with a new class like new mechanics, new thematics, new lore.... all this stuff can easily be done by giving us new exciting e-specs.

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@Kodama.6453 said:E-specs are a major selling point of the expansions and I would guess that the big majority of people are looking forward to getting new specs to enhance their already beloved characters. Axing e-specs in favour of a new class surely won't happen.

And there are many points you didn't address. Like I said, they finally reached a balance between the armor classes with the addition of revenant. Why would they want to destroy this again by adding another class? And giving free choice on armor classes doesn't make sense gameplaywise since everyone will choose the heavy armor then anyway simply because of the armor benefit.

And e-specs are able to deliver most of the things you are asking for with a new class like new mechanics, new thematics, new lore.... all this stuff can easily be done by giving us new exciting e-specs.

E-specs really don't I am looking forward too them, but as I said they are a selling point for people already invested in the game. Those outside of our sphere will just shrug it off, as is the case with many people I know personally. They never cared about mounts or E-specs.... they want something the game doesn't provide which is a theme we have yet to cover, which an E-spec might not be able to tackle. (Because then like the ones who had their own theme they might need to be siphoned down because they have too much going on.)

I understand a hear what you're saying, but we need a big selling point which will bring lots of attention to the game. HoT had revenant and E-specs, and masteries and all of those systems.

PoF wasn't as big of a deal because it just had mounts, which didn't really draw people from outside of our community. They need to pull in the old fans who have left, maintain us and gain new fans that will be new to the game as a whole. E-specs alone won't do this~

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@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:Not a good idea, new class would be an absurd amount of work.

Not only would you need a new class but it would have to come with 2 elite specs to make it "fair"Add to that it would imbalance the armour tiers.. adding a new light would make people want a new medium and heavy too so they wouldn't be able to add just 1 new class they'd need to add 3 and each of them would need 2 specs each too meaning to make adding new classes fair we'd need 3 new professions with 6 new elite specs, and then there's the balancing problem..

Just adding 9 new elite specs per expansion is already a headache.. adding 3 new professions now would be a foolish thing to do and likely do far more harm than good.

Everything is an absurd amount of work, new maps, masteries, mounts, E-specs, guild stuff, WvW, PvP, Raids, Strikes, Visions and the list goes on? I suppose they should stop doing those as well since its an absurd level of work? I mean sure why not if it means we can get "Quality content." The arguement goes both ways friend.

Yes but those things are expected and you could probably consider the normal amount of work for this game and has been for years.Adding new classes would be like adding another permanent work volume on top of all the current expectations.

Balancing 9 classes and 18 Elite specs is already difficult and painful enough.. with the next expansion that's potentially another 9 elite specs thrown in on top..Adding 3 whole new proffessions with 6-9 elite specs on top of that would be absurdly foolish and needlessly pointless.. I wouldn't be surprised if some classes and specs got straight up written off with that kind of workload demand.Some would claim that already happens with the current list of classes and specs.

There's good reason why some content gets ignored for a while and why so many masteries end up as irrelevant.Hell people are always complaining about this class or that class in one game mode or another, just because perfecting balancing is impossible as you said doesn't mean you should intentionally make it a total clusterkitten just for the sake of adding something new.That's very short term gains for monumental long term problems, it's just not worth it.

This is more or less the reason why Gw2's duel profession system was scrapped in the first place, not to mention why so many Gw1 skills got axed.As much as I've love more skills and duel professions it would totally break the game.. same as new classes would at this point.Elite Specs are the best solution to this problem even if they also contribute to it.

I actually think they could Axe the E-specs together, and compromise by making three new classes with two E-specs each. This means that sure our current roster would get nothing new but there are TONS of people I've spoken too who don't want E-specs at all.. (Insane I know)

I would pick new E spec over new classes. I can't swap the class on my character.

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How would a new class be a bigger selling point than e-specs? E-specs not only give me new stuff for the class(es) I play, but also a big reason to revisit the ones I don't. Among 9 of them, I'm bound to find at least one to love, and that was the case for both HoT and PoF. A new class is a hit or miss, that even if I do like, it would require me to stop playing my existing characters.

As for new players, how does a new class make a difference? The existing classes would be as new to them as the 10th one.

As for PoF only adding mounts, I saw tons of mentions of GW2 in general gaming fora and on reddit simply because how good the execution of mounts was. Nobody is going to discuss an mmo because they added a new class, why would that be noteworthy to a non-player?

Then, there's the problem of e-specs for that class. Would anet have to launch the class together with the two e-specs the other classes have and a third for Cantha? If yes, it's a huge amount of work, 33% more e-specs to make on top of designing an entire new class. If no, then how do you make the class not feel extremely shallow and rushed compared to the other 9 and how do you make it diverse enough to have a place in the game's multiple game modes?

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I would rather new elite specs. They are much better than a new class in many ways that have already been covered. If Anet somehow has the resources to do both in the expansion, then I would rather they added other things instead of a new class. They could add new base weapons to some classes or even fill in the missing utility and elite skills. They could also make new skills that are earnable from the Luxons and Kurzicks, similar to certain skills in GW1. There are many ways they could add to progress our characters alongside the elite specs. They could make some of these harder to unlock as longer term goals, since the elite spec is the main thing everyone wants to unlock easily and play straight away.

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@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:Not a good idea, new class would be an absurd amount of work.

Not only would you need a new class but it would have to come with 2 elite specs to make it "fair"Add to that it would imbalance the armour tiers.. adding a new light would make people want a new medium and heavy too so they wouldn't be able to add just 1 new class they'd need to add 3 and each of them would need 2 specs each too meaning to make adding new classes fair we'd need 3 new professions with 6 new elite specs, and then there's the balancing problem..

Just adding 9 new elite specs per expansion is already a headache.. adding 3 new professions now would be a foolish thing to do and likely do far more harm than good.

Everything is an absurd amount of work, new maps, masteries, mounts, E-specs, guild stuff, WvW, PvP, Raids, Strikes, Visions and the list goes on? I suppose they should stop doing those as well since its an absurd level of work? I mean sure why not if it means we can get "Quality content." The arguement goes both ways friend.

Yes but those things are expected and you could probably consider the normal amount of work for this game and has been for years.Adding new classes would be like adding another permanent work volume on top of all the current expectations.

Balancing 9 classes and 18 Elite specs is already difficult and painful enough.. with the next expansion that's potentially another 9 elite specs thrown in on top..Adding 3 whole new proffessions with 6-9 elite specs on top of that would be absurdly foolish and needlessly pointless.. I wouldn't be surprised if some classes and specs got straight up written off with that kind of workload demand.Some would claim that already happens with the current list of classes and specs.

There's good reason why some content gets ignored for a while and why so many masteries end up as irrelevant.Hell people are always complaining about this class or that class in one game mode or another, just because perfecting balancing is impossible as you said doesn't mean you should intentionally make it a total clusterkitten just for the sake of adding something new.That's very short term gains for monumental long term problems, it's just not worth it.

This is more or less the reason why Gw2's duel profession system was scrapped in the first place, not to mention why so many Gw1 skills got axed.As much as I've love more skills and duel professions it would totally break the game.. same as new classes would at this point.Elite Specs are the best solution to this problem even if they also contribute to it.

I actually think they could Axe the E-specs together, and compromise by making three new classes with two E-specs each. This means that sure our current roster would get nothing new but there are TONS of people I've spoken too who don't want E-specs at all.. (Insane I know)

That might appease some people but I'd think it would disappoint more overall.

If they added new classes and give nothing to old ones many might feel cheated by it, probably more so than just not having new specs.If the new professions came with expansions too there would be no end of pay to win claims from those who only play the pvp side and don't care for buying new content.Specially if the new professions and their specs are just poorly balanced.

Pretty sure a similar thing happened when the first batch of Elite specs came out as well.The last thing a lot of people want to do with new content too is roll a whole new character, learn how to use it and and rush to the new stuff, most want to take their favourites and just jump straight on and play.Providing they came with an expansion which considering the work load required I'd assume would be the only way to do it.

So why not just not do any of it? Just leave classes as they are. No pay to win then yea? People will kitten no matter what they do. Might as well go big or go home at this point.. The community is upset no matter WHAT they do, or HOW they do it.

Well as Kodama said they sell expansions for one.

But like I said adding new specs each expansion complicates things.. adding new professions turns said complications into a huge clusterkitten instead.Not worth it, specially if it flat out kills competitive modes which are always a mess after new specs come along.. dread to think what 3 new professions and 9 specs would do to it xD

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@Teratus.2859 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:Not a good idea, new class would be an absurd amount of work.

Not only would you need a new class but it would have to come with 2 elite specs to make it "fair"Add to that it would imbalance the armour tiers.. adding a new light would make people want a new medium and heavy too so they wouldn't be able to add just 1 new class they'd need to add 3 and each of them would need 2 specs each too meaning to make adding new classes fair we'd need 3 new professions with 6 new elite specs, and then there's the balancing problem..

Just adding 9 new elite specs per expansion is already a headache.. adding 3 new professions now would be a foolish thing to do and likely do far more harm than good.

Everything is an absurd amount of work, new maps, masteries, mounts, E-specs, guild stuff, WvW, PvP, Raids, Strikes, Visions and the list goes on? I suppose they should stop doing those as well since its an absurd level of work? I mean sure why not if it means we can get "Quality content." The arguement goes both ways friend.

Yes but those things are expected and you could probably consider the normal amount of work for this game and has been for years.Adding new classes would be like adding another permanent work volume on top of all the current expectations.

Balancing 9 classes and 18 Elite specs is already difficult and painful enough.. with the next expansion that's potentially another 9 elite specs thrown in on top..Adding 3 whole new proffessions with 6-9 elite specs on top of that would be absurdly foolish and needlessly pointless.. I wouldn't be surprised if some classes and specs got straight up written off with that kind of workload demand.Some would claim that already happens with the current list of classes and specs.

There's good reason why some content gets ignored for a while and why so many masteries end up as irrelevant.Hell people are always complaining about this class or that class in one game mode or another, just because perfecting balancing is impossible as you said doesn't mean you should intentionally make it a total clusterkitten just for the sake of adding something new.That's very short term gains for monumental long term problems, it's just not worth it.

This is more or less the reason why Gw2's duel profession system was scrapped in the first place, not to mention why so many Gw1 skills got axed.As much as I've love more skills and duel professions it would totally break the game.. same as new classes would at this point.Elite Specs are the best solution to this problem even if they also contribute to it.

I actually think they could Axe the E-specs together, and compromise by making three new classes with two E-specs each. This means that sure our current roster would get nothing new but there are TONS of people I've spoken too who don't want E-specs at all.. (Insane I know)

That might appease some people but I'd think it would disappoint more overall.

If they added new classes and give nothing to old ones many might feel cheated by it, probably more so than just not having new specs.If the new professions came with expansions too there would be no end of pay to win claims from those who only play the pvp side and don't care for buying new content.Specially if the new professions and their specs are just poorly balanced.

Pretty sure a similar thing happened when the first batch of Elite specs came out as well.The last thing a lot of people want to do with new content too is roll a whole new character, learn how to use it and and rush to the new stuff, most want to take their favourites and just jump straight on and play.Providing they came with an expansion which considering the work load required I'd assume would be the only way to do it.

So why not just not do any of it? Just leave classes as they are. No pay to win then yea? People will kitten no matter what they do. Might as well go big or go home at this point.. The community is upset no matter WHAT they do, or HOW they do it.

Well as Kodama said they sell expansions for one.

But like I said adding new specs each expansion complicates things.. adding new professions turns said complications into a huge clusterkitten instead.Not worth it, specially if it flat out kills competitive modes which are always a mess after new specs come along.. dread to think what 3 new professions and 9 specs would do to it xD

Simple fix is that the NEW proffesion (No need to make three in one expansion, save two for the future ya know?) They don't receive E-specs this expansion due to the fact that they will have the current mantra/mechanics in their core kit. Meaning their core kit would already be on a kind of E-spec sort of phase; This means that one new class and the E-specs that came for other classes would still keep everyone happy.. Those who want something truly new, and hell maybe even new players that typically come for new classes would be appeased..

Ill be honest if every other freak'n game on the market can do it, and manage to make it work than A-net has no excuse outside of willpower and ability/creativity. And I know that the community has no faith in them to do anything right it seems like, hell even I don't believe in them as much as I used too. But I think if they wanted too they could do this and make it work; People said we would never see mounts and look what appeared magically one day. Races, classes hell all the stuff they've ever said they wouldn't do and all the things they say in general mean next to nothing. They change their mind all the time, so again if it became something they wanted to do for whatever reason im pretty sure that they would do it~ and not give a dang what we think or want. (They never have before, why start now.)

I personally just want a shapeshifting werebeast, or someone who becomes a big monster and can switch between stages of them-self. Yea like the druid from diablo/WoW but I want that because its a fantasy I enjoy. I wanted the norn to be that as a race and simply whenever they enter combat they transform into this werebeast that just lays into people. But they never let it happen, and honestly its a fantasy Id love to see in guild wars 2's engine and Id love to see racial classes/specs emerge that are entirely dependent on your race that take our racial skills and amp them/make passives around them so we can play that kind of fantasy. But the community again poo poos on anything thats not the status quo.

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People here are saying that new class is too much work, lol.

But your class is your game, and I'd love something new. Actually, new class is a lot easier to balance than the old ones - nobody has set expectations and there are no fanboys of any mechanic.

Why not just wear sword on every class and hit with autoattack through lv 1-80+

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That other MMOs introduce new classes is hardly a strong argument, it implies that because others do it, it's inherently desirable. There are wow players asking for different specialisations for the existing classes, especially those that are locked into dps for all 3 specs, so they would consider the fact gw2 gets new elite specs each expansion a better deal.

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@RabbitUp.8294 said:That other MMOs introduce new classes is hardly a strong argument, it implies that because others do it, it's inherently desirable. There are wow players asking for different specialisations for the existing classes, especially those that are locked into dps for all 3 specs, so they would consider the fact gw2 gets new elite specs each expansion a better deal.

Granted this is true, but at the same time every game has mounts which was the argument as to why people wanted them. Other games add new classes and those new classes build more hype than our E-specs. I know plenty of people who only went to WoW for demon hunter, or people who only went to BDO for the class they added at the time. A new class is something truly new, a E-spec is new mechanics for existing stuff that you have to reach end-game to begin playing with rather than a new class that new players can begin playing with immediately after getting the expansion.

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@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:Not a good idea, new class would be an absurd amount of work.

Not only would you need a new class but it would have to come with 2 elite specs to make it "fair"Add to that it would imbalance the armour tiers.. adding a new light would make people want a new medium and heavy too so they wouldn't be able to add just 1 new class they'd need to add 3 and each of them would need 2 specs each too meaning to make adding new classes fair we'd need 3 new professions with 6 new elite specs, and then there's the balancing problem..

Just adding 9 new elite specs per expansion is already a headache.. adding 3 new professions now would be a foolish thing to do and likely do far more harm than good.

Everything is an absurd amount of work, new maps, masteries, mounts, E-specs, guild stuff, WvW, PvP, Raids, Strikes, Visions and the list goes on? I suppose they should stop doing those as well since its an absurd level of work? I mean sure why not if it means we can get "Quality content." The arguement goes both ways friend.

Yes but those things are expected and you could probably consider the normal amount of work for this game and has been for years.Adding new classes would be like adding another permanent work volume on top of all the current expectations.

Balancing 9 classes and 18 Elite specs is already difficult and painful enough.. with the next expansion that's potentially another 9 elite specs thrown in on top..Adding 3 whole new proffessions with 6-9 elite specs on top of that would be absurdly foolish and needlessly pointless.. I wouldn't be surprised if some classes and specs got straight up written off with that kind of workload demand.Some would claim that already happens with the current list of classes and specs.

There's good reason why some content gets ignored for a while and why so many masteries end up as irrelevant.Hell people are always complaining about this class or that class in one game mode or another, just because perfecting balancing is impossible as you said doesn't mean you should intentionally make it a total clusterkitten just for the sake of adding something new.That's very short term gains for monumental long term problems, it's just not worth it.

This is more or less the reason why Gw2's duel profession system was scrapped in the first place, not to mention why so many Gw1 skills got axed.As much as I've love more skills and duel professions it would totally break the game.. same as new classes would at this point.Elite Specs are the best solution to this problem even if they also contribute to it.

I actually think they could Axe the E-specs together, and compromise by making three new classes with two E-specs each. This means that sure our current roster would get nothing new but there are TONS of people I've spoken too who don't want E-specs at all.. (Insane I know)

That might appease some people but I'd think it would disappoint more overall.

If they added new classes and give nothing to old ones many might feel cheated by it, probably more so than just not having new specs.If the new professions came with expansions too there would be no end of pay to win claims from those who only play the pvp side and don't care for buying new content.Specially if the new professions and their specs are just poorly balanced.

Pretty sure a similar thing happened when the first batch of Elite specs came out as well.The last thing a lot of people want to do with new content too is roll a whole new character, learn how to use it and and rush to the new stuff, most want to take their favourites and just jump straight on and play.Providing they came with an expansion which considering the work load required I'd assume would be the only way to do it.

So why not just not do any of it? Just leave classes as they are. No pay to win then yea? People will kitten no matter what they do. Might as well go big or go home at this point.. The community is upset no matter WHAT they do, or HOW they do it.

Well as Kodama said they sell expansions for one.

But like I said adding new specs each expansion complicates things.. adding new professions turns said complications into a huge clusterkitten instead.Not worth it, specially if it flat out kills competitive modes which are always a mess after new specs come along.. dread to think what 3 new professions and 9 specs would do to it xD

Simple fix is that the NEW proffesion (No need to make three in one expansion, save two for the future ya know?) They don't receive E-specs this expansion due to the fact that they will have the current mantra/mechanics in their core kit. Meaning their core kit would already be on a kind of E-spec sort of phase; This means that one new class and the E-specs that came for other classes would still keep everyone happy.. Those who want something truly new, and hell maybe even new players that typically come for new classes would be appeased..

That just wouldn't work.. having new classes as a base which can compare to old ones with elite specs would be absurdly OP.Either they would have massive powercreap on old classes or as a base they would have more base skills and trait lines to compensate which would cause even more issues down the road when they do get elite specs.This is the whole reason why Especs were limited to 1 per character and why you can't be a Reaper Scourge at the same time.. these new classes would essentially be that very thing if they were balanced this way, just lacking the mechanical changes of an Espec.

Anet has already said in the past it doesnt want Especs to replace or straight up enhance core kits but rather offer a different way to play a class.If they did bring in new classes it would have to be in line with this model with the same restrictions.. new class plus specs and it's just not worth doing for so many reasons.

Ill be honest if every other freak'n game on the market can do it, and manage to make it work than A-net has no excuse outside of willpower and ability/creativity. And I know that the community has no faith in them to do anything right it seems like, hell even I don't believe in them as much as I used too. But I think if they wanted too they could do this and make it work; People said we would never see mounts and look what appeared magically one day. Races, classes hell all the stuff they've ever said they wouldn't do and all the things they say in general mean next to nothing. They change their mind all the time, so again if it became something they wanted to do for whatever reason im pretty sure that they would do it~ and not give a dang what we think or want. (They never have before, why start now.)

Other games are not like Gw2 though, lord knows so many of them have balance issues because they added new classes etc.Early on Anet scrapped the duel profession system as I said and restricted Racial impact to largely cosmetic purposes.. hence racial skills being more of a gimmick than actually useful.This was done to avoid obvious balance problems that were not worth the headache.As others said too, Revenant was only added later on with it's first elite spec to round out the 9 classes and the lacking 3rd heavy armour class.Had there been a 3rd one from launch they never would have made the Revenant.. or at least they never would have given players the ability to play as one.

People said they'd never do mounts and if you recall there was a lot of uncertainty when they were announced.. then when we saw them and how they were done we realized how unique and different they were to how any other generic MMO does them and that sold a lot of people on them, myself included.When mounts did finally come into the game, despite upgrades to core Tyria maps they absolutely broke the game allowing them in core Tyria.Finding ways to break out of maps and skip content like Jumping puzzles is extremely easy to do with mounts even now, but this is ultimately harmless and only effects your personal experience if you choose to use them this way.Gliding if you remember was originally locked out of core Tyria for more or less the same reason.. and even back then these were valid concerns.

Ultimately what mounts and gliding didn't do though was drastically complicate balance between classes.This is mainly because they do not have combat utility outside of a single enter skill, plus the fact their uses are limited in competitive modes like WvW.That still doesn't stop people complaining about Warclaw being the biggest mistake Anet ever made though.. and to be fair, despite favouring the Warclaw there are some valid arguments against it.

I personally just want a shapeshifting werebeast, or someone who becomes a big monster and can switch between stages of them-self. Yea like the druid from diablo/WoW but I want that because its a fantasy I enjoy. I wanted the norn to be that as a race and simply whenever they enter combat they transform into this werebeast that just lays into people. But they never let it happen, and honestly its a fantasy Id love to see in guild wars 2's engine and Id love to see racial classes/specs emerge that are entirely dependent on your race that take our racial skills and amp them/make passives around them so we can play that kind of fantasy. But the community again poo poos on anything thats not the status quo.

You can argue for more use in PvE racial skills, I honestly would support that as it's something I too would like but just because they are gimmick skills doesn't mean you can't use them or make builds that do.I'd actually prefer racial skills to become F6-9 skills which would only be usable in open world PvE, not fractals, raids, strikes or any kind of content like that just the general PvE.But im not against PvE exclusive racial traitlines that enhance some elements of race.. that would be a fun thing to have and being forced to sacrifice a profession traitline to use it is something that would be a fair trade off.That said I have a Norn Warewolf build myself which isn't finished yet but im planning to run through the whole PvE game with it eventually just for fun.So you can play a shapeshifter if you want, you just can't be a shapeshifting monster that can obliterate all in it's path with ease.

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