Hey Anet, where the Thief nerfs at?

[pninak.1069]

I thought the game game intented that you use your weapon in combat. I don't see it as an issue in pvp, because I wait for dmg first before doing smth. I just think nullifying effects of bullets and pretty much every thrown projectile makes no sense. Pvp sucks anyways. and I am hardly in wvw. I am just doing wvw for quick dailies to avoid pvp.

[Sobx.1758]

@pninak.1069 said:Pvp sucks anyways. and I am hardly in wvw. I am just doing wvw for quick dailies to avoid pvp.

...then why are you even complaining about anything wvw/pvp related? :p

[pninak.1069]

Because I hate glitches. it is one of the reasons why I don't like speedrunning too, because they break the game on purpose.

[Sobx.1758]

@pninak.1069 said:Because I hate glitches. it is one of the reasons why I don't like speedrunning too, because they break the game on purpose.

Ok, but as it was already mentioned that's not a glitch.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

@Nemanja.8501 said:

@jpsssss.7530 said:Real talks, yes they're useless in blobs, but in havoc/small-scale they're the nutz. Thieves have too much defensive capabilities (stealth, evades, mobility, stuns and resets for these) while still maintaining the ability to 100 to 0 most classes before counter play can even happen. No class should have the best defensive abilities in perma-stealth (and the target breaks) and mobility, and the highest spike damage on literally no cooldown.

TL;DR Thief is still too overloaded.

I agree, i was fighting today vs theif as a mesmer and I can say that I am very dissapointed by the recent changes in gw2.

Thief was running away 3 kilometers from me, i was trying to kill him half an hour. What is that?They removed hammer damage from warrior making it almost useless but improved thiefs to fly all over the map.... o.O

You are both correct in that thieves can still do absurd damage, but not about the cooldowns or about the lack of counterplay, or about having all of those strengths in one build. Most builds dedicated to burst are extreme one trick ponies now, in that they have no flexibility if something goes wrong. Builds with the required utility and flexibility to sustain an offensive cannot burst you from 100-0 without opportunity for counterplay. Let's take my glass DE build as an example; yes, my build can do 20k+ in under a second to glassy players with no protection or damage mitigation, so I can get cheap kills vs glassy enemies. There are some important drawbacks though:

1) The burst only works if they let it happen, the mark hits 2 seconds before the burst on average because of the cast time on binding shadow, so if you're aware you can counter it by dodging or using a defensive skill.

2) The build uses two offensive utilities to achieve that damage (assassin signet and binding shadow), having nowhere near 20k damage without them. This forces a 30s cooldown on the burst, meaning I can't do anything to you for 30s if it misses. That ought to be plenty of opportunity for you to escape or heal up.

3) The burst is neutered by taking dura runes, earth runes for added magnetic aura (works automatically) or surging runes for shocking aura (needs timing, but adds hard CC to shut down the combo entirely). These are available to all classes, should you wish to take them, and would allow you to turn and smack me with your own burst, a trade of blows I will probably lose. Unfortunately, most players panic when they get hit hard, and instead of turning and hitting the thief with their own burst, they choke.

4) I don't build for perma stealth because of weapon choices and the fact that using two offensive utilities means the third has to be shadowstep for a stunbreak, meaning if I use my stealth from heal and shadow meld to approach the target unseen, I don't have enough stealth to wait for the offensive utilities to come off cooldown if I whiff the burst. If I stay in the fight after the burst and you're not dead, odds are I soon will be.

5) Pretty much no matter the build, I am not going to be one shotting a trailblazer or bunker build. So if you struggle with thieves bursting you, run a bunker condi build and use effects that are instant cast to attack the thief when he's attacking and at his most vulnerable. Think of things like building on condi rev's traited conditions on legend swap by slotting geomancy, hydromancy, doom and torment sigils, and using legend swap then weapon swap as the thief engages in melee to proc all the sigils at once and nuke him. Works with necro shroud too, with traited weakening shroud to further weaken the thief's damage.

This means, if you are aware enough to dodge/block/do ANYTHING between mark applying and binding shadow hitting, you will force me to disengage, and force a 30s window before I can do anything meaningful again. Almost every high burst thief build running assassin signet has a similar restriction. If someone doesn't consider taking toughness or damage mitigation like protection, doesn't take advantage of the weaknesses in my build, and plays with the reaction times of a potato, I can't really be blamed for that now can I?

[pninak.1069]

you got 5 seconds to get the burst and don't get revealed when failing to hit or while blinded. sure it has a 1 second cd on backstab, but you still gonna be invisible and profit from 4 seconds from using signet. that's happened to me just a few weeks ago. I dodged the initial spike, but he was able to deliver a second backstab just 1 second after. and how come we get punishied for blinding you. it makes no sense. as a mirage player in wvw I am pretty much forced to waste a utility skill in order to save my dodge.

[Lighter.5631]

problem is not thief, problem is rev/proto/necro and they are getting nerf and thief will still be top.unless anet thinks rev/proto/necro are fine, then they will just buff thief damage and other classes' as well

[UNOwen.7132]

@Lighter.5631 said:problem is not thief, problem is rev/proto/necro and they are getting nerf and thief will still be top.unless anet thinks rev/proto/necro are fine, then they will just buff thief damage and other classes' as well

If bunkers are gone, Thief will do better. But, given how particularly pathetic the damage is now, I wouldnt be surprised if even then they were only viable. Thief does need damage buffs, at least to compensate for the Assassins Signet bugfix.

[Lighter.5631]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:problem is not thief, problem is rev/proto/necro and they are getting nerf and thief will still be top.unless anet thinks rev/proto/necro are fine, then they will just buff thief damage and other classes' as well

If bunkers are gone, Thief will do better. But, given how particularly pathetic the damage is now, I wouldnt be surprised if even then they were only viable. Thief does need damage buffs, at least to compensate for the Assassins Signet bugfix.

currently the damage is so low that ,except rev, nobody can kill daredevil, , unless ofc the daredevil over commit in trying to down the bunker.just like there's currently no damage to kill certain bunkersthere are way bigger window for thief to disengage and swift objective compared to pre nerf.

if daredevil damage is high enough to bust bunkers in a fast session, then everybody would be running thief instead of bunkers, because bunkers won't have the enough damage to counter pressure a good daredevil, simply because thief's hit and kit nature, constant stream of dps doesnt pressure thieves, burst damage does.so if they buffeding daredevil damage, they will surely buff other classes' damage as well.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

@pninak.1069 said:you got 5 seconds to get the burst and don't get revealed when failing to hit or while blinded. sure it has a 1 second cd on backstab, but you still gonna be invisible and profit from 4 seconds from using signet. that's happened to me just a few weeks ago. I dodged the initial spike, but he was able to deliver a second backstab just 1 second after. and how come we get punishied for blinding you. it makes no sense. as a mirage player in wvw I am pretty much forced to waste a utility skill in order to save my dodge.

Well, honestly if you're a mesmer player, you're struggling with thief less because thief is OP and more because mesmer got nerfed into the floor.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Lighter.5631 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:problem is not thief, problem is rev/proto/necro and they are getting nerf and thief will still be top.unless anet thinks rev/proto/necro are fine, then they will just buff thief damage and other classes' as well

If bunkers are gone, Thief will do better. But, given how particularly pathetic the damage is now, I wouldnt be surprised if even then they were only viable. Thief does need damage buffs, at least to compensate for the Assassins Signet bugfix.

currently the damage is so low that ,except rev, nobody can kill daredevil, , unless ofc the daredevil over commit in trying to down the bunker.just like there's currently no damage to kill certain bunkersthere are way bigger window for thief to disengage and swift objective compared to pre nerf.

Is ... this supposed to be a joke? I mean it has to be, given how wrong it is, but you dont appear to realise youre joking. Everyone can kill Daredevil. Condi builds in particular have a trivially easy time, but even power builds have no issue. That is unless the Daredevil goes full tank (including using Knights Amulet or something), but then the Daredevil just does no damage and still gets killed in the long run.

if daredevil damage is high enough to bust bunkers in a fast session, then everybody would be running thief instead of bunkers, because bunkers won't have the enough damage to counter pressure a good daredevil, simply because thief's hit and kit nature, constant stream of dps doesnt pressure thieves, burst damage does.so if they buffeding daredevil damage, they will surely buff other classes' damage as well.

Daredevil will never be able to "bust bunkers fast". Thats also not the goal. Its supposed to do a decent chunk of damage quickly to squishy targets (hence why bunkers existing in particular is bad, as youre never gonna be able to do noticable damage to them). It cant even do that.

[Lighter.5631]

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@pninak.1069 said:you got 5 seconds to get the burst and don't get revealed when failing to hit or while blinded. sure it has a 1 second cd on backstab, but you still gonna be invisible and profit from 4 seconds from using signet. that's happened to me just a few weeks ago. I dodged the initial spike, but he was able to deliver a second backstab just 1 second after. and how come we get punishied for blinding you. it makes no sense. as a mirage player in wvw I am pretty much forced to waste a utility skill in order to save my dodge.

Well, honestly if you're a mesmer player, you're struggling with thief less because thief is OP and more because mesmer got nerfed into the floor.

mesmer can shut down necro, but thief/rev wouldn't let them play.

@UNOwen.7132 said:

Is ... this supposed to be a joke? I mean it has to be, given how wrong it is, but you dont appear to realise youre joking. Everyone can kill Daredevil.you are not understanding, arent you.will be happy to demonstrate to you in game, pick any class that's not rev and try to shut me down, before you know it, ill be on the other side of the map decapping.thief only dies when he lets you, unless this thief tunnel visions and over commit but that's his mistake, thief has always been about the macro game.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Lighter.5631 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Is ... this supposed to be a joke? I mean it has to be, given how wrong it is, but you dont appear to realise youre joking.

Everyone

can kill Daredevil.you are not understanding, arent you.will be happy to demonstrate to you in game, pick any class that's not rev and try to shut me down, before you know it, ill be on the other side of the map decapping.

Thats ... completely besides the point? Good luck doing that in a bunker meta where people can and do guard points against thieves. Even in a non-bunker meta, if you can only decap, youre also not going to be too relevant.

[Lighter.5631]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Is ... this supposed to be a joke? I mean it has to be, given how wrong it is, but you dont appear to realise youre joking.

Everyone

can kill Daredevil.you are not understanding, arent you.will be happy to demonstrate to you in game, pick any class that's not rev and try to shut me down, before you know it, ill be on the other side of the map decapping.

Thats ... completely besides the point? Good luck doing that in a bunker meta where people can and do guard points against thieves.

that's exactly why thief is still played, bunkers has no mobility. you want to place one bunker on each point then you will be fighting 4v5 on mid and far.and why thief can play like that? because nobody has the ability to shut down a thief except rev, unless he lets them, that's why its able to run so free.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Lighter.5631 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Is ... this supposed to be a joke? I mean it has to be, given how wrong it is, but you dont appear to realise youre joking.

Everyone

can kill Daredevil.you are not understanding, arent you.will be happy to demonstrate to you in game, pick any class that's not rev and try to shut me down, before you know it, ill be on the other side of the map decapping.

Thats ... completely besides the point? Good luck doing that in a bunker meta where people can and do guard points against thieves.

that's exactly why thief is still played, bunkers has no mobility. unless you want to place one bunker on each point then you will be fighting 4v5 on mid and far.and why thief can play like that? because nobody can kill a thief except rev, unless he lets them, that's why its able to run so free.

Except thief isnt really played much. Most teams and even thief players have dropped thief, and the ones that havent say that they would, but thief is the only class theyre good at. And the reason is precisely because you can keep a bunker on a point, and fight with the rest mid. Sure, its a 4.25 vs 4 mid (thief is not worth a full player by a long shot in teamfights), but builds are so survivable now that it doesnt matter. You can easily win while making the enemy thief useless.

[Lighter.5631]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Is ... this supposed to be a joke? I mean it has to be, given how wrong it is, but you dont appear to realise youre joking.

Everyone

can kill Daredevil.you are not understanding, arent you.will be happy to demonstrate to you in game, pick any class that's not rev and try to shut me down, before you know it, ill be on the other side of the map decapping.

Thats ... completely besides the point? Good luck doing that in a bunker meta where people can and do guard points against thieves.

that's exactly why thief is still played, bunkers has no mobility. unless you want to place one bunker on each point then you will be fighting 4v5 on mid and far.and why thief can play like that? because nobody can kill a thief except rev, unless he lets them, that's why its able to run so free.

Except thief isnt really played much. Most teams and even thief players have dropped thief, and the ones that havent say that they would, but thief is the only class theyre good at. And the reason is precisely because you can keep a bunker on a point, and fight with the rest mid. Sure, its a 4.25 vs 4 mid (thief is not worth a full player by a long shot in teamfights), but builds are so survivable now that it doesnt matter. You can easily win while making the enemy thief useless.

thief isnt played too much in ranked, because ranked is a mess, requires carry, silver/gold are playing with plat and people don't know how to coordinate damage to tank down a bunker and maybe you can decap, but your team will die to a 2v1 or never kills anyone. the way to carry in ranked right now is to hold a point yourself.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Lighter.5631 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Is ... this supposed to be a joke? I mean it has to be, given how wrong it is, but you dont appear to realise youre joking.

Everyone

can kill Daredevil.you are not understanding, arent you.will be happy to demonstrate to you in game, pick any class that's not rev and try to shut me down, before you know it, ill be on the other side of the map decapping.

Thats ... completely besides the point? Good luck doing that in a bunker meta where people can and do guard points against thieves.

that's exactly why thief is still played, bunkers has no mobility. unless you want to place one bunker on each point then you will be fighting 4v5 on mid and far.and why thief can play like that? because nobody can kill a thief except rev, unless he lets them, that's why its able to run so free.

Except thief isnt really played much. Most teams and even thief players have dropped thief, and the ones that havent say that they would, but thief is the only class theyre good at. And the reason is precisely because you can keep a bunker on a point, and fight with the rest mid. Sure, its a 4.25 vs 4 mid (thief is not worth a full player by a long shot in teamfights), but builds are so survivable now that it doesnt matter. You can easily win while making the enemy thief useless.

thief isnt played too much in ranked, because ranked is a mess, requires carry, silver/gold are playing with plat and people don't know how to coordinate damage to tank down a bunker and maybe you can decap, but your team will die to a 2v1 or never kills anyone. the way to carry in ranked right now is to hold a point yourself.

Actually in ranked is where its still played a bit, because ranked lags behind and people think thief is a lot stronger than it is. Its in high level and AT play where thief is getting dropped the most. Just aint worth it.

[Lighter.5631]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Is ... this supposed to be a joke? I mean it has to be, given how wrong it is, but you dont appear to realise youre joking.

Everyone

can kill Daredevil.you are not understanding, arent you.will be happy to demonstrate to you in game, pick any class that's not rev and try to shut me down, before you know it, ill be on the other side of the map decapping.

Thats ... completely besides the point? Good luck doing that in a bunker meta where people can and do guard points against thieves.

that's exactly why thief is still played, bunkers has no mobility. unless you want to place one bunker on each point then you will be fighting 4v5 on mid and far.and why thief can play like that? because nobody can kill a thief except rev, unless he lets them, that's why its able to run so free.

Except thief isnt really played much. Most teams and even thief players have dropped thief, and the ones that havent say that they would, but thief is the only class theyre good at. And the reason is precisely because you can keep a bunker on a point, and fight with the rest mid. Sure, its a 4.25 vs 4 mid (thief is not worth a full player by a long shot in teamfights), but builds are so survivable now that it doesnt matter. You can easily win while making the enemy thief useless.

thief isnt played too much in ranked, because ranked is a mess, requires carry, silver/gold are playing with plat and people don't know how to coordinate damage to tank down a bunker and maybe you can decap, but your team will die to a 2v1 or never kills anyone. the way to carry in ranked right now is to hold a point yourself.

Actually in ranked is where its still played a bit, because ranked lags behind and people think thief is a lot stronger than it is. Its in high level and AT play where thief is getting dropped the most. Just aint worth it.

emm thief is getting dropped the most? compared to when? when there's 4 thief in every match? help me understand.some classes got dropped immediately, i dont know how top players would still be taking thief in the second mAT if it is really completely trash.here's the thing my stance is not saying thief is op, im just saying it's not trash.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Lighter.5631 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Is ... this supposed to be a joke? I mean it has to be, given how wrong it is, but you dont appear to realise youre joking.

Everyone

can kill Daredevil.you are not understanding, arent you.will be happy to demonstrate to you in game, pick any class that's not rev and try to shut me down, before you know it, ill be on the other side of the map decapping.

Thats ... completely besides the point? Good luck doing that in a bunker meta where people can and do guard points against thieves.

that's exactly why thief is still played, bunkers has no mobility. unless you want to place one bunker on each point then you will be fighting 4v5 on mid and far.and why thief can play like that? because nobody can kill a thief except rev, unless he lets them, that's why its able to run so free.

Except thief isnt really played much. Most teams and even thief players have dropped thief, and the ones that havent say that they would, but thief is the only class theyre good at. And the reason is precisely because you can keep a bunker on a point, and fight with the rest mid. Sure, its a 4.25 vs 4 mid (thief is not worth a full player by a long shot in teamfights), but builds are so survivable now that it doesnt matter. You can easily win while making the enemy thief useless.

thief isnt played too much in ranked, because ranked is a mess, requires carry, silver/gold are playing with plat and people don't know how to coordinate damage to tank down a bunker and maybe you can decap, but your team will die to a 2v1 or never kills anyone. the way to carry in ranked right now is to hold a point yourself.

Actually in ranked is where its still played a bit, because ranked lags behind and people think thief is a lot stronger than it is. Its in high level and AT play where thief is getting dropped the most. Just aint worth it.

emm thief is getting dropped the most? compared to when? when there's 4 thief in every match? help me understand.some classes got dropped immediately, i dont know how top players would still be taking thief in the second mAT if it is really completely trash.here's the thing my stance is not saying thief is op, im just saying it's not trash.

Before the patch, most teams ran 1 thief. Now most teams run 0 thief. And the ones that still run 1 thief for the most part say that they do it because their thief player cant play anything else, if they could they too would run 0 thief.