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The Death of Thief


darren.1064

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:Maybe next elite speck will be 1v1 duelist with one weapon slot, so it would have to be less mobile but have better damage. Maybe a GS would fit.But till then being mobile and doing kitten ton of damage doesn't fit.

Dont think it should be a GS. Maybe offhand sword, maybe Mace, but Greatsword is just not thematically appropriate for theif in any version.

I agree, dual sword thief duelist would fit tho, when I think gs duelist I think of war/rev and only one has gs, really hoping the other does come cantha lol. Dual sword/gs shiro all day every day.

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:Maybe next elite speck will be 1v1 duelist with one weapon slot, so it would have to be less mobile but have better damage. Maybe a GS would fit.But till then being mobile and doing kitten ton of damage doesn't fit.

Why doesn't it, cuz u dont think it fits? Who made the rule high mobility= low burst?U know high sustained damage and high burst damage are both a thing and in most mmos high mobility archetypes like rogues get high burst as well so they can get in quick and do the damage the need to do before gtfo cuz their usually also squishy, hense high mobility and evades. Higher sustain classes usually have lower bursts but higher sustained damage because the can stay in the fight long enough to deal it.I love the community lmao let's make up our own rules to coincide with our bias against thief and call it the rule even though goes against the actual tropes made by all past mmo's.

I believe so far you have been asking for an opener with crippling dmg so high that not even a high sustain spec could survive it but then again...you first ask for dmg, then duelling abilities and then both in the same instance.....you seem to be wanting both.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:Maybe next elite speck will be 1v1 duelist with one weapon slot, so it would have to be less mobile but have better damage. Maybe a GS would fit.But till then being mobile and doing kitten ton of damage doesn't fit.

Why doesn't it, cuz u dont think it fits? Who made the rule high mobility= low burst?U know high sustained damage and high burst damage are both a thing and in most mmos high mobility archetypes like rogues get high burst as well so they can get in quick and do the damage the need to do before gtfo cuz their usually also squishy, hense high mobility and evades. Higher sustain classes usually have lower bursts but higher sustained damage because the can stay in the fight long enough to deal it.I love the community lmao let's make up our own rules to coincide with our bias against thief and call it the rule even though goes against the actual tropes made by all past mmo's.

also in those MMS tanks are tanky to the point of immortality or mages have aoe that covers entire screens in 1shot pulsing fields, gw2 is no other MMO.balance it properly not in a stupid way othe MMOs are balanced.

Yeah but what's properly? Properly in 75% of the community minds would see the rogue spec no longer resembling anything rogue like. If it somehow was still rogue like it be useless cuz umm look at almost all non thief players post about balancing thief aka delete it or make it useless.

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:Maybe next elite speck will be 1v1 duelist with one weapon slot, so it would have to be less mobile but have better damage. Maybe a GS would fit.But till then being mobile and doing kitten ton of damage doesn't fit.

Why doesn't it, cuz u dont think it fits? Who made the rule high mobility= low burst?U know high sustained damage and high burst damage are both a thing and in most mmos high mobility archetypes like rogues get high burst as well so they can get in quick and do the damage the need to do before gtfo cuz their usually also squishy, hense high mobility and evades. Higher sustain classes usually have lower bursts but higher sustained damage because the can stay in the fight long enough to deal it.I love the community lmao let's make up our own rules to coincide with our bias against thief and call it the rule even though goes against the actual tropes made by all past mmo's.

I believe so far you have been asking for an opener with crippling dmg so high that not even a high sustain spec could survive it but then again...you first ask for dmg, then duelling abilities and then both in the same instance.....you seem to be wanting both.

Nope! Not even close. I want a burst that does more than tickle most of the high sustain classes, autos that do more than 300-500 which is like a mosquito buzzing around most classes. I do not want one hit ko backstabs at all but I want a class to at least be at 30% hp if I set up a backstab, land it,land few autos and a heart seeker which is pretty balanced sounding to me from a squishy burst class. As it stands right now in ur so called fine state of thief the thief cant even +1 a enemy and down it quick even if its burst and follow ups land lol yeah balanced if u are biased and dislike the class maybe. I never stated I want one shots on any class but as it is now not only do tanks out burst thief thee burst class but some ranger pets as well lmao..... balanced.

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:Maybe next elite speck will be 1v1 duelist with one weapon slot, so it would have to be less mobile but have better damage. Maybe a GS would fit.But till then being mobile and doing kitten ton of damage doesn't fit.

Why doesn't it, cuz u dont think it fits? Who made the rule high mobility= low burst?U know high sustained damage and high burst damage are both a thing and in most mmos high mobility archetypes like rogues get high burst as well so they can get in quick and do the damage the need to do before gtfo cuz their usually also squishy, hense high mobility and evades. Higher sustain classes usually have lower bursts but higher sustained damage because the can stay in the fight long enough to deal it.I love the community lmao let's make up our own rules to coincide with our bias against thief and call it the rule even though goes against the actual tropes made by all past mmo's.

I believe so far you have been asking for an opener with crippling dmg so high that not even a high sustain spec could survive it but then again...you first ask for dmg, then duelling abilities and then both in the same instance.....you seem to be wanting both.

Nope! Not even close. I want a burst that does more than tickle most of the high sustain classes, autos that do more than 300-500 which is like a mosquito buzzing around most classes. I do not want one hit ko backstabs at all but I want a class to at least be at 30% hp if I set up a backstab, land it,land few autos and a heart seeker which is pretty balanced sounding to me from a squishy burst class. As it stands right now in ur so called fine state of thief the thief cant even +1 a enemy and down it quick even if its burst and follow ups land lol yeah balanced if u are biased and dislike the class maybe. I never stated I want one shots on any class but as it is now not only do tanks out burst thief thee burst class but some ranger pets as well lmao..... balanced.

So you want a spec dealing 70% of any target health with the ability to try again if you fail?....how exactly am I considered biased and you not?

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:Maybe next elite speck will be 1v1 duelist with one weapon slot, so it would have to be less mobile but have better damage. Maybe a GS would fit.But till then being mobile and doing kitten ton of damage doesn't fit.

Why doesn't it, cuz u dont think it fits? Who made the rule high mobility= low burst?U know high sustained damage and high burst damage are both a thing and in most mmos high mobility archetypes like rogues get high burst as well so they can get in quick and do the damage the need to do before gtfo cuz their usually also squishy, hense high mobility and evades. Higher sustain classes usually have lower bursts but higher sustained damage because the can stay in the fight long enough to deal it.I love the community lmao let's make up our own rules to coincide with our bias against thief and call it the rule even though goes against the actual tropes made by all past mmo's.

also in those MMS tanks are tanky to the point of immortality or mages have aoe that covers entire screens in 1shot pulsing fields, gw2 is no other MMO.balance it properly not in a stupid way othe MMOs are balanced.

Yeah but what's properly? Properly in 75% of the community minds would see the rogue spec no longer resembling anything rogue like. If it somehow was still rogue like it be useless cuz umm look at almost all non thief players post about balancing thief aka delete it or make it useless.

it is not relevant what average person thinks, average person is retarded.

edit, IF and its a big IF with the current devs, IF they nerf necro/holo/ranger/rev/fb/whatever , thief will be fine.peeps land 3-6k stabs and feel useless but lemme tell you, when im on wizard ammy on mesmer and get chunked for 10k with a combo it REALLY screws me over, its just other classes having insane HP pools ( 50k+ necro ) or kinghts amulet/demo prot holo with pulsing heals etc etc

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:Maybe next elite speck will be 1v1 duelist with one weapon slot, so it would have to be less mobile but have better damage. Maybe a GS would fit.But till then being mobile and doing kitten ton of damage doesn't fit.

Why doesn't it, cuz u dont think it fits? Who made the rule high mobility= low burst?U know high sustained damage and high burst damage are both a thing and in most mmos high mobility archetypes like rogues get high burst as well so they can get in quick and do the damage the need to do before gtfo cuz their usually also squishy, hense high mobility and evades. Higher sustain classes usually have lower bursts but higher sustained damage because the can stay in the fight long enough to deal it.I love the community lmao let's make up our own rules to coincide with our bias against thief and call it the rule even though goes against the actual tropes made by all past mmo's.

I believe so far you have been asking for an opener with crippling dmg so high that not even a high sustain spec could survive it but then again...you first ask for dmg, then duelling abilities and then both in the same instance.....you seem to be wanting both.

Nope! Not even close. I want a burst that does more than tickle most of the high sustain classes, autos that do more than 300-500 which is like a mosquito buzzing around most classes. I do not want one hit ko backstabs at all but I want a class to at least be at 30% hp if I set up a backstab, land it,land few autos and a heart seeker which is pretty balanced sounding to me from a squishy burst class. As it stands right now in ur so called fine state of thief the thief cant even +1 a enemy and down it quick even if its burst and follow ups land lol yeah balanced if u are biased and dislike the class maybe. I never stated I want one shots on any class but as it is now not only do tanks out burst thief thee burst class but some ranger pets as well lmao..... balanced.

So you want a spec dealing 70% of any target health with the ability to try again if you fail?....how exactly am I considered biased and you not?

The fact that they'd have to try again means breathing room for the opponent as well, now knowing thiefs there allows for the many counterplay available. Why do u think it's ok for thief to be squishy and take little damage before being downed if misplayed is ok but thief should be required to land far more hits to down his opponent. A thief can be downed in 3 or four and sometimes less decent hits. Why shouldn't it have the damage to quickly deal damage comparable to high hp/armor classes? U sound like a player who crys and gets mad everytime ur out played lol like it's the classes design fault every time. U want thief to be free kill? If a thief can be downed quickly cuz low hp/armor why should it take a long time to down its opponent?Lol ur saying it's fine as a non thief player, best known thief player now with damage nerfs on thief cant in high level play even effectively down half the classes in a decent time in a +1 lmao that's 2v1.... states should ring some bells about thiefs dps but ok I'm sure u know thiefs state better than a long time top lv thief player being u dont play thief or atleast anywhere to the level sind does. Just be honest u like thief being weak as $hit at u dont want it buffed to point fighting them may be a challenge again, and to ur frail ego.

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"Vancho.8750" said:Maybe next elite speck will be 1v1 duelist with one weapon slot, so it would have to be less mobile but have better damage. Maybe a GS would fit.But till then being mobile and doing kitten ton of damage doesn't fit.

Why doesn't it, cuz u dont think it fits? Who made the rule high mobility= low burst?U know high sustained damage and high burst damage are both a thing and in most mmos high mobility archetypes like rogues get high burst as well so they can get in quick and do the damage the need to do before gtfo cuz their usually also squishy, hense high mobility and evades. Higher sustain classes usually have lower bursts but higher sustained damage because the can stay in the fight long enough to deal it.I love the community lmao let's make up our own rules to coincide with our bias against thief and call it the rule even though goes against the actual tropes made by all past mmo's.

I believe so far you have been asking for an opener with crippling dmg so high that not even a high sustain spec could survive it but then again...you first ask for dmg, then duelling abilities and then both in the same instance.....you seem to be wanting both.

Nope! Not even close. I want a burst that does more than tickle most of the high sustain classes, autos that do more than 300-500 which is like a mosquito buzzing around most classes. I do not want one hit ko backstabs at all but I want a class to at least be at 30% hp if I set up a backstab, land it,land few autos and a heart seeker which is pretty balanced sounding to me from a squishy burst class. As it stands right now in ur so called fine state of thief the thief cant even +1 a enemy and down it quick even if its burst and follow ups land lol yeah balanced if u are biased and dislike the class maybe. I never stated I want one shots on any class but as it is now not only do tanks out burst thief thee burst class but some ranger pets as well lmao..... balanced.

So you want a spec dealing 70% of any target health with the ability to try again if you fail?....how exactly am I considered biased and you not?

The fact that they'd have to try again means breathing room for the opponent as well, now knowing thiefs there allows for the many counterplay available. Why do u think it's ok for thief to be squishy and take little damage before being downed if misplayed is ok but thief should be required to land far more hits to down his opponent. A thief can be downed in 3 or four and sometimes less decent hits. Why shouldn't it have the damage to quickly deal damage comparable to high hp/armor classes? U sound like a player who crys and gets mad everytime ur out played lol like it's the classes design fault every time. U want thief to be free kill? If a thief can be downed quickly cuz low hp/armor why should it take a long time to down its opponent?

becouse its FAR easier for a thief to land a hit then almost any other class, play warrior and tell me how easy it is to touch a thief, and then tell me they should deal somewhat same damage. you hitting your enemies several times more is BASE RESOULT, you are NOT outplaying necro by hitting them twice as often, if anything they are outplaying you if that happens. When I fight a necro as mesmer and i trade blow for blow I will die before they lose 20% hp, 4-5 hits for one is more in line with going even, if I want to "outplay" them I have to roll them with propably 10 hits for every one I take.

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:Maybe next elite speck will be 1v1 duelist with one weapon slot, so it would have to be less mobile but have better damage. Maybe a GS would fit.But till then being mobile and doing kitten ton of damage doesn't fit.

Why doesn't it, cuz u dont think it fits? Who made the rule high mobility= low burst?U know high sustained damage and high burst damage are both a thing and in most mmos high mobility archetypes like rogues get high burst as well so they can get in quick and do the damage the need to do before gtfo cuz their usually also squishy, hense high mobility and evades. Higher sustain classes usually have lower bursts but higher sustained damage because the can stay in the fight long enough to deal it.I love the community lmao let's make up our own rules to coincide with our bias against thief and call it the rule even though goes against the actual tropes made by all past mmo's.

I believe so far you have been asking for an opener with crippling dmg so high that not even a high sustain spec could survive it but then again...you first ask for dmg, then duelling abilities and then both in the same instance.....you seem to be wanting both.

Nope! Not even close. I want a burst that does more than tickle most of the high sustain classes, autos that do more than 300-500 which is like a mosquito buzzing around most classes. I do not want one hit ko backstabs at all but I want a class to at least be at 30% hp if I set up a backstab, land it,land few autos and a heart seeker which is pretty balanced sounding to me from a squishy burst class. As it stands right now in ur so called fine state of thief the thief cant even +1 a enemy and down it quick even if its burst and follow ups land lol yeah balanced if u are biased and dislike the class maybe. I never stated I want one shots on any class but as it is now not only do tanks out burst thief thee burst class but some ranger pets as well lmao..... balanced.

So you want a spec dealing 70% of any target health with the ability to try again if you fail?....how exactly am I considered biased and you not?

The fact that they'd have to try again means breathing room for the opponent as well, now knowing thiefs there allows for the many counterplay available. Why do u think it's ok for thief to be squishy and take little damage before being downed if misplayed is ok but thief should be required to land far more hits to down his opponent. A thief can be downed in 3 or four and sometimes less decent hits. Why shouldn't it have the damage to quickly deal damage comparable to high hp/armor classes? U sound like a player who crys and gets mad everytime ur out played lol like it's the classes design fault every time. U want thief to be free kill? If a thief can be downed quickly cuz low hp/armor why should it take a long time to down its opponent?

You're not outplaying anybody here buddy...you're just teleporting from 1200 range while being completely invisible and expect to deal 70% of a target health regardless of their armor rating.....wth are you even outplaying here?

You're not a warrior baiting dodges or somebody landing a nice combo after avoiding the enemy burst......you're just a stealth gimmick crap oneshot...you're not outplaying anybody..you never did

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:Maybe next elite speck will be 1v1 duelist with one weapon slot, so it would have to be less mobile but have better damage. Maybe a GS would fit.But till then being mobile and doing kitten ton of damage doesn't fit.

Why doesn't it, cuz u dont think it fits? Who made the rule high mobility= low burst?U know high sustained damage and high burst damage are both a thing and in most mmos high mobility archetypes like rogues get high burst as well so they can get in quick and do the damage the need to do before gtfo cuz their usually also squishy, hense high mobility and evades. Higher sustain classes usually have lower bursts but higher sustained damage because the can stay in the fight long enough to deal it.I love the community lmao let's make up our own rules to coincide with our bias against thief and call it the rule even though goes against the actual tropes made by all past mmo's.

I believe so far you have been asking for an opener with crippling dmg so high that not even a high sustain spec could survive it but then again...you first ask for dmg, then duelling abilities and then both in the same instance.....you seem to be wanting both.

Nope! Not even close. I want a burst that does more than tickle most of the high sustain classes, autos that do more than 300-500 which is like a mosquito buzzing around most classes. I do not want one hit ko backstabs at all but I want a class to at least be at 30% hp if I set up a backstab, land it,land few autos and a heart seeker which is pretty balanced sounding to me from a squishy burst class. As it stands right now in ur so called fine state of thief the thief cant even +1 a enemy and down it quick even if its burst and follow ups land lol yeah balanced if u are biased and dislike the class maybe. I never stated I want one shots on any class but as it is now not only do tanks out burst thief thee burst class but some ranger pets as well lmao..... balanced.

So you want a spec dealing 70% of any target health with the ability to try again if you fail?....how exactly am I considered biased and you not?

The fact that they'd have to try again means breathing room for the opponent as well, now knowing thiefs there allows for the many counterplay available. Why do u think it's ok for thief to be squishy and take little damage before being downed if misplayed is ok but thief should be required to land far more hits to down his opponent. A thief can be downed in 3 or four and sometimes less decent hits. Why shouldn't it have the damage to quickly deal damage comparable to high hp/armor classes? U sound like a player who crys and gets mad everytime ur out played lol like it's the classes design fault every time. U want thief to be free kill? If a thief can be downed quickly cuz low hp/armor why should it take a long time to down its opponent?

You're not outplaying anybody here buddy...you're just teleporting from 1200 range while being completely invisible and expect to deal 70% of a target health regardless of their armor rating.....wth are you even outplaying here?

You're not a warrior baiting dodges or somebody landing a nice combo after avoiding the enemy burst......
you're just a stealth gimmick kitten oneshot
...you're not outplaying anybody..you never did

this guy was definitely a free kill for thieves before this last balance patch

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"Vancho.8750" said:Maybe next elite speck will be 1v1 duelist with one weapon slot, so it would have to be less mobile but have better damage. Maybe a GS would fit.But till then being mobile and doing kitten ton of damage doesn't fit.

Why doesn't it, cuz u dont think it fits? Who made the rule high mobility= low burst?U know high sustained damage and high burst damage are both a thing and in most mmos high mobility archetypes like rogues get high burst as well so they can get in quick and do the damage the need to do before gtfo cuz their usually also squishy, hense high mobility and evades. Higher sustain classes usually have lower bursts but higher sustained damage because the can stay in the fight long enough to deal it.I love the community lmao let's make up our own rules to coincide with our bias against thief and call it the rule even though goes against the actual tropes made by all past mmo's.

I believe so far you have been asking for an opener with crippling dmg so high that not even a high sustain spec could survive it but then again...you first ask for dmg, then duelling abilities and then both in the same instance.....you seem to be wanting both.

Nope! Not even close. I want a burst that does more than tickle most of the high sustain classes, autos that do more than 300-500 which is like a mosquito buzzing around most classes. I do not want one hit ko backstabs at all but I want a class to at least be at 30% hp if I set up a backstab, land it,land few autos and a heart seeker which is pretty balanced sounding to me from a squishy burst class. As it stands right now in ur so called fine state of thief the thief cant even +1 a enemy and down it quick even if its burst and follow ups land lol yeah balanced if u are biased and dislike the class maybe. I never stated I want one shots on any class but as it is now not only do tanks out burst thief thee burst class but some ranger pets as well lmao..... balanced.

So you want a spec dealing 70% of any target health with the ability to try again if you fail?....how exactly am I considered biased and you not?

The fact that they'd have to try again means breathing room for the opponent as well, now knowing thiefs there allows for the many counterplay available. Why do u think it's ok for thief to be squishy and take little damage before being downed if misplayed is ok but thief should be required to land far more hits to down his opponent. A thief can be downed in 3 or four and sometimes less decent hits. Why shouldn't it have the damage to quickly deal damage comparable to high hp/armor classes? U sound like a player who crys and gets mad everytime ur out played lol like it's the classes design fault every time. U want thief to be free kill? If a thief can be downed quickly cuz low hp/armor why should it take a long time to down its opponent?

becouse its FAR easier for a thief to land a hit then almost any other class, play warrior and tell me how easy it is to touch a thief, and then tell me they should deal somewhat same damage. you hitting your enemies several times more is BASE RESOULT, you are NOT outplaying necro by hitting them twice as often, if anything they are outplaying you if that happens. When I fight a necro as mesmer and i trade blow for blow I will die before they lose 20% hp, 4-5 hits for one is more in line with going even, if I want to "outplay" them I have to roll them with propably 10 hits for every one I take.

I'm not asking for thief to do 70% of a classes hp on a single backstab I'm asking for a small general blanket buff to thiefs skills and slight general decrease in the sustain of classes in the game. I'm saying if a thief sets up and lands a backstab bursts and gets off some autos and a heart seeker they should be doing enough dps given how squishy they are for that handful of attacks to pressure a class enough to put thief on even ground considering its squishyness cuz as of now the bs, auto and hs will take like 15% or 20% and the opponent will shrug that off and with classes defensive abilities the thief has to grossly out play the opponent which is fine but as it stands u have to grossly outplay them three times longer than u should have to given the little pressure u can take as a thief before disengaging.

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@darren.1064 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:Maybe next elite speck will be 1v1 duelist with one weapon slot, so it would have to be less mobile but have better damage. Maybe a GS would fit.But till then being mobile and doing kitten ton of damage doesn't fit.

Why doesn't it, cuz u dont think it fits? Who made the rule high mobility= low burst?U know high sustained damage and high burst damage are both a thing and in most mmos high mobility archetypes like rogues get high burst as well so they can get in quick and do the damage the need to do before gtfo cuz their usually also squishy, hense high mobility and evades. Higher sustain classes usually have lower bursts but higher sustained damage because the can stay in the fight long enough to deal it.I love the community lmao let's make up our own rules to coincide with our bias against thief and call it the rule even though goes against the actual tropes made by all past mmo's.

I believe so far you have been asking for an opener with crippling dmg so high that not even a high sustain spec could survive it but then again...you first ask for dmg, then duelling abilities and then both in the same instance.....you seem to be wanting both.

Nope! Not even close. I want a burst that does more than tickle most of the high sustain classes, autos that do more than 300-500 which is like a mosquito buzzing around most classes. I do not want one hit ko backstabs at all but I want a class to at least be at 30% hp if I set up a backstab, land it,land few autos and a heart seeker which is pretty balanced sounding to me from a squishy burst class. As it stands right now in ur so called fine state of thief the thief cant even +1 a enemy and down it quick even if its burst and follow ups land lol yeah balanced if u are biased and dislike the class maybe. I never stated I want one shots on any class but as it is now not only do tanks out burst thief thee burst class but some ranger pets as well lmao..... balanced.

So you want a spec dealing 70% of any target health with the ability to try again if you fail?....how exactly am I considered biased and you not?

The fact that they'd have to try again means breathing room for the opponent as well, now knowing thiefs there allows for the many counterplay available. Why do u think it's ok for thief to be squishy and take little damage before being downed if misplayed is ok but thief should be required to land far more hits to down his opponent. A thief can be downed in 3 or four and sometimes less decent hits. Why shouldn't it have the damage to quickly deal damage comparable to high hp/armor classes? U sound like a player who crys and gets mad everytime ur out played lol like it's the classes design fault every time. U want thief to be free kill? If a thief can be downed quickly cuz low hp/armor why should it take a long time to down its opponent?

You're not outplaying anybody here buddy...you're just teleporting from 1200 range while being completely invisible and expect to deal 70% of a target health regardless of their armor rating.....wth are you even outplaying here?

You're not a warrior baiting dodges or somebody landing a nice combo after avoiding the enemy burst......
you're just a stealth gimmick kitten oneshot
...you're not outplaying anybody..you never did

this guy was definitely a free kill for thieves before this last balance patch

You are always bound to lose to better players regardless of the class they play but..in the past the skill discrepancy between a thief and another player could have been so apparent and still the results would be different from expectations , all due to wrongly balanced mechanics, a fact that has been rightfully rectified with various balance patches . Now a bad player on a thief will go back always to where he belongs....respawn point

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:Maybe next elite speck will be 1v1 duelist with one weapon slot, so it would have to be less mobile but have better damage. Maybe a GS would fit.But till then being mobile and doing kitten ton of damage doesn't fit.

Why doesn't it, cuz u dont think it fits? Who made the rule high mobility= low burst?U know high sustained damage and high burst damage are both a thing and in most mmos high mobility archetypes like rogues get high burst as well so they can get in quick and do the damage the need to do before gtfo cuz their usually also squishy, hense high mobility and evades. Higher sustain classes usually have lower bursts but higher sustained damage because the can stay in the fight long enough to deal it.I love the community lmao let's make up our own rules to coincide with our bias against thief and call it the rule even though goes against the actual tropes made by all past mmo's.

I believe so far you have been asking for an opener with crippling dmg so high that not even a high sustain spec could survive it but then again...you first ask for dmg, then duelling abilities and then both in the same instance.....you seem to be wanting both.

Nope! Not even close. I want a burst that does more than tickle most of the high sustain classes, autos that do more than 300-500 which is like a mosquito buzzing around most classes. I do not want one hit ko backstabs at all but I want a class to at least be at 30% hp if I set up a backstab, land it,land few autos and a heart seeker which is pretty balanced sounding to me from a squishy burst class. As it stands right now in ur so called fine state of thief the thief cant even +1 a enemy and down it quick even if its burst and follow ups land lol yeah balanced if u are biased and dislike the class maybe. I never stated I want one shots on any class but as it is now not only do tanks out burst thief thee burst class but some ranger pets as well lmao..... balanced.

So you want a spec dealing 70% of any target health with the ability to try again if you fail?....how exactly am I considered biased and you not?

The fact that they'd have to try again means breathing room for the opponent as well, now knowing thiefs there allows for the many counterplay available. Why do u think it's ok for thief to be squishy and take little damage before being downed if misplayed is ok but thief should be required to land far more hits to down his opponent. A thief can be downed in 3 or four and sometimes less decent hits. Why shouldn't it have the damage to quickly deal damage comparable to high hp/armor classes? U sound like a player who crys and gets mad everytime ur out played lol like it's the classes design fault every time. U want thief to be free kill? If a thief can be downed quickly cuz low hp/armor why should it take a long time to down its opponent?

You're not outplaying anybody here buddy...you're just teleporting from 1200 range while being completely invisible and expect to deal 70% of a target health regardless of their armor rating.....wth are you even outplaying here?

You're not a warrior baiting dodges or somebody landing a nice combo after avoiding the enemy burst......
you're just a stealth gimmick kitten oneshot
...you're not outplaying anybody..you never did

this guy was definitely a free kill for thieves before this last balance patch

You are always bound to lose to better players regardless of the class they play but..in the past the skill discrepancy between a thief and another player could have been so apparent and still the results would be different from expectations , all due to wrongly balanced mechanics, a fact that has been rightfully rectified with various balance patches . Now a bad player on a thief will go back always to where he belongs....respawn point

have you actually ever played thief?

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:Maybe next elite speck will be 1v1 duelist with one weapon slot, so it would have to be less mobile but have better damage. Maybe a GS would fit.But till then being mobile and doing kitten ton of damage doesn't fit.

Why doesn't it, cuz u dont think it fits? Who made the rule high mobility= low burst?U know high sustained damage and high burst damage are both a thing and in most mmos high mobility archetypes like rogues get high burst as well so they can get in quick and do the damage the need to do before gtfo cuz their usually also squishy, hense high mobility and evades. Higher sustain classes usually have lower bursts but higher sustained damage because the can stay in the fight long enough to deal it.I love the community lmao let's make up our own rules to coincide with our bias against thief and call it the rule even though goes against the actual tropes made by all past mmo's.

I believe so far you have been asking for an opener with crippling dmg so high that not even a high sustain spec could survive it but then again...you first ask for dmg, then duelling abilities and then both in the same instance.....you seem to be wanting both.

Nope! Not even close. I want a burst that does more than tickle most of the high sustain classes, autos that do more than 300-500 which is like a mosquito buzzing around most classes. I do not want one hit ko backstabs at all but I want a class to at least be at 30% hp if I set up a backstab, land it,land few autos and a heart seeker which is pretty balanced sounding to me from a squishy burst class. As it stands right now in ur so called fine state of thief the thief cant even +1 a enemy and down it quick even if its burst and follow ups land lol yeah balanced if u are biased and dislike the class maybe. I never stated I want one shots on any class but as it is now not only do tanks out burst thief thee burst class but some ranger pets as well lmao..... balanced.

So you want a spec dealing 70% of any target health with the ability to try again if you fail?....how exactly am I considered biased and you not?

The ability to do 70% with set up and the enemy failing to stop any part (after the backstab, of course), yeah? Idk, sounds reasonable. Thats what Rev does. Thats what Ranger does.

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:Maybe next elite speck will be 1v1 duelist with one weapon slot, so it would have to be less mobile but have better damage. Maybe a GS would fit.But till then being mobile and doing kitten ton of damage doesn't fit.

Why doesn't it, cuz u dont think it fits? Who made the rule high mobility= low burst?U know high sustained damage and high burst damage are both a thing and in most mmos high mobility archetypes like rogues get high burst as well so they can get in quick and do the damage the need to do before gtfo cuz their usually also squishy, hense high mobility and evades. Higher sustain classes usually have lower bursts but higher sustained damage because the can stay in the fight long enough to deal it.I love the community lmao let's make up our own rules to coincide with our bias against thief and call it the rule even though goes against the actual tropes made by all past mmo's.

I believe so far you have been asking for an opener with crippling dmg so high that not even a high sustain spec could survive it but then again...you first ask for dmg, then duelling abilities and then both in the same instance.....you seem to be wanting both.

Nope! Not even close. I want a burst that does more than tickle most of the high sustain classes, autos that do more than 300-500 which is like a mosquito buzzing around most classes. I do not want one hit ko backstabs at all but I want a class to at least be at 30% hp if I set up a backstab, land it,land few autos and a heart seeker which is pretty balanced sounding to me from a squishy burst class. As it stands right now in ur so called fine state of thief the thief cant even +1 a enemy and down it quick even if its burst and follow ups land lol yeah balanced if u are biased and dislike the class maybe. I never stated I want one shots on any class but as it is now not only do tanks out burst thief thee burst class but some ranger pets as well lmao..... balanced.

So you want a spec dealing 70% of any target health with the ability to try again if you fail?....how exactly am I considered biased and you not?

The fact that they'd have to try again means breathing room for the opponent as well, now knowing thiefs there allows for the many counterplay available. Why do u think it's ok for thief to be squishy and take little damage before being downed if misplayed is ok but thief should be required to land far more hits to down his opponent. A thief can be downed in 3 or four and sometimes less decent hits. Why shouldn't it have the damage to quickly deal damage comparable to high hp/armor classes? U sound like a player who crys and gets mad everytime ur out played lol like it's the classes design fault every time. U want thief to be free kill? If a thief can be downed quickly cuz low hp/armor why should it take a long time to down its opponent?

You're not outplaying anybody here buddy...you're just teleporting from 1200 range while being completely invisible and expect to deal 70% of a target health regardless of their armor rating.....wth are you even outplaying here?

You're not a warrior baiting dodges or somebody landing a nice combo after avoiding the enemy burst......
you're just a stealth gimmick kitten oneshot
...you're not outplaying anybody..you never did

See ur talking biased nonsense and are assuming what I'm doing in fight even,so we should take ur balance suggestions based on what? Ur lack of thief knowledge and ur fantasy scenarios? Lmao this is why anet needs to ignore players like u.I play dp only. I tele once SOMETIMES to steal and set up backstab or a lot of the times I save my steal. I time my blinds and use evades and smart use of blackpoweders in combo with HS to reposition to set up another backstab, lots of counter play vs BS at this point then I continue to use good timing blinds and evades with HS here and there to eventually down the enemy. This takes forever and I need to land about 30 hits by end of fight while avoiding what like 4 hits from the opponent lmao I call that grossly out playing hard especially since it takes well over a minute and a half. Somtimes u get the down and sometimes ur dps just won't keep up with their sustain and they will just keep out sustaining u while applying equal burst dps with sustained dps on top lol.I am fine having to avoid almost all hits and being downed if 3 or so connect on my but what I'm not fine with is while avoiding them taking over a minute to down the opponent cuz my bursts are so weak as $hit.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:Maybe next elite speck will be 1v1 duelist with one weapon slot, so it would have to be less mobile but have better damage. Maybe a GS would fit.But till then being mobile and doing kitten ton of damage doesn't fit.

Why doesn't it, cuz u dont think it fits? Who made the rule high mobility= low burst?U know high sustained damage and high burst damage are both a thing and in most mmos high mobility archetypes like rogues get high burst as well so they can get in quick and do the damage the need to do before gtfo cuz their usually also squishy, hense high mobility and evades. Higher sustain classes usually have lower bursts but higher sustained damage because the can stay in the fight long enough to deal it.I love the community lmao let's make up our own rules to coincide with our bias against thief and call it the rule even though goes against the actual tropes made by all past mmo's.

also in those MMS tanks are tanky to the point of immortality or mages have aoe that covers entire screens in 1shot pulsing fields, gw2 is no other MMO.balance it properly not in a stupid way othe MMOs are balanced.

Yeah but what's properly? Properly in 75% of the community minds would see the rogue spec no longer resembling anything rogue like. If it somehow was still rogue like it be useless cuz umm look at almost all non thief players post about balancing thief aka delete it or make it useless.

it is not relevant what average person thinks, average person is kitten.

edit, IF and its a big IF with the current devs, IF they nerf necro/holo/ranger/rev/fb/whatever , thief will be fine.peeps land 3-6k stabs and feel useless but lemme tell you, when im on wizard ammy on mesmer and get chunked for 10k with a combo it REALLY screws me over, its just other classes having insane HP pools ( 50k+ necro ) or kinghts amulet/demo prot holo with pulsing heals etc etc

Its not 3-6k stabs unfortunately. Its closer to 3-4.5k. And the followup is not much better. If it was a 10k combo, thatd be a different story. Its not. But most of the time? Its like 8k tops. Lower than that normally. Thats the problem. Assassins Signet was already mandatory if you wanted to do damage prior to the patch. And then it got nerfed.

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:Maybe next elite speck will be 1v1 duelist with one weapon slot, so it would have to be less mobile but have better damage. Maybe a GS would fit.But till then being mobile and doing kitten ton of damage doesn't fit.

Why doesn't it, cuz u dont think it fits? Who made the rule high mobility= low burst?U know high sustained damage and high burst damage are both a thing and in most mmos high mobility archetypes like rogues get high burst as well so they can get in quick and do the damage the need to do before gtfo cuz their usually also squishy, hense high mobility and evades. Higher sustain classes usually have lower bursts but higher sustained damage because the can stay in the fight long enough to deal it.I love the community lmao let's make up our own rules to coincide with our bias against thief and call it the rule even though goes against the actual tropes made by all past mmo's.

also in those MMS tanks are tanky to the point of immortality or mages have aoe that covers entire screens in 1shot pulsing fields, gw2 is no other MMO.balance it properly not in a stupid way othe MMOs are balanced.

Yeah but what's properly? Properly in 75% of the community minds would see the rogue spec no longer resembling anything rogue like. If it somehow was still rogue like it be useless cuz umm look at almost all non thief players post about balancing thief aka delete it or make it useless.

it is not relevant what average person thinks, average person is kitten.

edit, IF and its a big IF with the current devs, IF they nerf necro/holo/ranger/rev/fb/whatever , thief will be fine.peeps land 3-6k stabs and feel useless but lemme tell you, when im on wizard ammy on mesmer and get chunked for 10k with a combo it REALLY screws me over, its just other classes having insane HP pools ( 50k+ necro ) or kinghts amulet/demo prot holo with pulsing heals etc etc

Its not 3-6k stabs unfortunately. Its closer to 3-4.5k. And the followup is not much better. If it was a 10k combo, thatd be a different story. Its not. But most of the time? Its like 8k tops. Lower than that normally. Thats the problem. Assassins Signet was already mandatory if you wanted to do damage prior to the patch. And then it got nerfed.

No point in arguing. I stated multiple times clearly what I expected and in no way shape or form said anything about one shot yet his arguement keeps using that as his main point of arguement, stating I just want to run around one shotting people lol as if he just ignore what the other persons saying and just spouts his nonsense to fit his arguement as if I said things i didn't even say lol. Hes proved himself in his statements that hes nothing more than a biased I want thief deleted cuz they kill me and their unfair player that can't take being out played lol.

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Chiming in as a lifelong ranger here,

I'm not sure what needs to be done, but killing thiefs of any kind seems to be easier than ever. There are some super gimmicky playstyles out there right now that might get a win or two here and there...but overall thiefs seem to be comparatively much weaker post-coefficient update. I don't know why anyone would play one unless the only thing they wanted to do was decap points and be a +1. The 2v2 season was just a preview, and a buddy of mine stopped playing his thief almost all together. Running a thief in 2v2 in the mini season was like running into a brick wall for any team that capitalized on combos. The proper 5v5 matches exacerbate the combo problems now.

Now, post coefficient patch, the power creep is a little more noticeable. Rangers at least probably are rightfully due for a big nerf in the future. Just about anything a thief can do, I feel a ranger can do better somehow. Power? Check. Condi? Check. Survivability? Check. CC? Check. Mobility? Close enough to not notice. Even stealth? Rangers have it too & can abuse it if they really tried.

Thiefs may still be workable with certain builds to get wins, but if the only thing the thief can really do is decap points & pray there's no bunker...that definitely is not fun or fair to require from people that want to play thief. The last patch did a lot of things, but really benefitted rangers the most. It unlocked so many new different builds that are viable now. Thiefs? The opposite happened. There are less viable builds now.

This might be possibly TOO radical....but if Anet just made thiefs capable of killing through invulnerability or more unblockables--it would allow for many different thief builds to be put into play. It would be a perfect fit for a thief to cancel out a shrinking engi, or a guard, or a signet ranger AND it would make playing thief more fun again.

Just my two coppers!-Eros of Ascalon

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@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:You're right, thief is so weak that 3/4 of the top 4 teams last mAT ran them, and I don't think this mAT will be any different.

Yeah, and that's cool and all. Top 3/4 teams of mAT will always be in the top 3/4 teams. If Anet only cares about the top 1% of players that type of mentality is 100% ok.Not talking about the top 1% of players, because no matter what they're going to make classes work. Talking about the 99% of players who jump into thief thinking it's going to be fun, and end up getting rekt because the learning curve is so steep or because they are expected to have a singular purpose & don't understand fully how to play it.

Do you disagree? You think that top 3/4 teams of mAT discredit the fact that thiefs (in general)--especially in solo or duo queue ranked where the majority of players play, makes the discussion points somehow NOT an issue? I don't.-Eros of Ascalon

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@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:You're right, thief is so weak that 3/4 of the top 4 teams last mAT ran them, and I don't think this mAT will be any different.

I think it's the same idea with everyone running mirages.

Counter-speccing. Like counterportal or, in thief's case, counterdecap + mobility.

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@Project exa.3204 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:You're right, thief is so weak that 3/4 of the top 4 teams last mAT ran them, and I don't think this mAT will be any different.

Yeah, and that's cool and all. Top 3/4 teams of mAT will always be in the top 3/4 teams. If Anet only cares about the top 1% of players that type of mentality is 100% ok.Not talking about the top 1% of players, because no matter what they're going to make classes work. Talking about the 99% of players who jump into thief thinking it's going to be fun, and end up getting rekt because the learning curve is so steep or because they are expected to have a singular purpose & don't understand fully how to play it.

Do you disagree? You think that top 3/4 teams of mAT discredit the fact that thiefs (in general)--especially in solo or duo queue ranked where the majority of players play, makes the discussion points somehow NOT an issue? I don't.-Eros of Ascalon

Thief is already a must have (pretty much) in high tier games. If you buff it for the mediocre people, it will just steamroll everything in high tier. We don't want a repeat of pre patch meta with double SA one shots.

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@Tayga.3192 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:You're right, thief is so weak that 3/4 of the top 4 teams last mAT ran them, and I don't think this mAT will be any different.

I think it's the same idea with everyone running mirages.

Counter-speccing. Like counterportal or, in thief's case, counterdecap + mobility.

It's really not, Misha is the only one pulling mirage off.

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@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:You're right, thief is so weak that 3/4 of the top 4 teams last mAT ran them, and I don't think this mAT will be any different.

Yeah, and that's cool and all. Top 3/4 teams of mAT will always be in the top 3/4 teams. If Anet only cares about the top 1% of players that type of mentality is 100% ok.Not talking about the top 1% of players, because no matter what they're going to make classes work. Talking about the 99% of players who jump into thief thinking it's going to be fun, and end up getting rekt because the learning curve is so steep or because they are expected to have a singular purpose & don't understand fully how to play it.

Do you disagree? You think that top 3/4 teams of mAT discredit the fact that thiefs (in general)--especially in solo or duo queue ranked where the majority of players play, makes the discussion points somehow NOT an issue? I don't.-Eros of Ascalon

Thief is already a must have (pretty much) in high tier games. If you buff it for the mediocre people, it will just steamroll everything in high tier. We don't want a repeat of pre patch meta with double SA one shots.

Here's my philosophy. mAT players and hardcore players are ALWAYS going to probably have a thief, because they've already reached the learning curve pinnacle and can maximize the usage. They're already at that level, so buffing them further (like how I mentioned to make them strike through invul or possibly shields) really only just secures their utility. Is it honestly fair that if you want to play pvp as a thief you better learn to play REAL GOOD and do mAT's because the ranked queues will throw you with some mixes that are extremely disadvantageous?

I honest to gosh think the focus on mAT causes a lot of problems in the pvp community. There's a much much smaller % of people playing mATs than solo or duo queue.Anet can keep nerfing metas that are abused in the mAT, but (with the exception of the coefficient patch) they've never tried to bridge that gap between new players WANTING to be better at pvp--and hardcore players stomping them / snuffing the fun out of them before they ever get the chance. Hardcore players will always always find builds that work, but new players and average players give up so easily. Those are the folks I think about the most...and to that point OP is right.

There has to be a place where thiefs belong that isn't just a +1 or point decapper in the majority pvp world. They have to be able to REALLY assassinate classes, to trade off for all the relative squishiness the majority have. Will this cause the ultra thiefs to feel stronger? Heck yes, but that's where it should rightfully be. As a Soulbeast I'm fine with the classes being toned down further if it means that there's greater balance / purpose to the specs. Thief is SUPPOSED to be that singular murderer that your team HAS to consider, or your team is going to get killed. It's not right now at all for the majority of bronze - gold games. That's the area that I care about, personally (not mAT)-Eros of Ascalon

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