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Official Ritualist thread


Elric.4713

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So I've been thinking about scepter some more and the fact that we need a new off-hand to pair it with. Well, if they don't want to give us new core weapons (they should) or pair scepter with something else for the new specialization, it could straight up change sword and axe skills when they're paired with it. For example, Temporal Rift can turn into Spirit Rift that work similarly but requires a target and after knocking it down applies vulnerability.

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@Doctor.1384 said:No one wants ritualist because you cant have greatsword on a ritualist because ritualist cant have greatsword

A rev that call some legend ritualist where utilities would be more legends :O that would work like kits on its utilities with diferent ffects o.O fused into the GS!!!While using this legend Rev would be locked into GS only and would Loose the F keys to swap legens.LEGENDARY LEGENDCEPTION!!!!!

On a serious note it is hard to predict wich and what will be added to Rev..Theres alot of characters from Cantha alone that would fit for amazing elite legends in theme and builds design.

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I agree that Rev has inspiration from Ritualist. As for the weapon I'd like greatsword as a fast paced ranged / minion option. Imagined when you shealth the weapon it becomes enchanted and starts moving around on its own and aiding you in combat. (think like how balthazar's sword moves around ) . when drawn it can be a fast paced melee power weapon thats damage comes from its skills not its AA. I mean sword does a good amount of sustain but its boring and no more legendary really compilements shiro well. I mean glint is kinda meh if you have a good build for might and jalus is ok but very passive.

Honestly a think rev could use a little love in the skills offered by most of its legends.

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@Elric.4713 said:So I've been thinking about scepter some more and the fact that we need a new off-hand to pair it with. Well, if they don't want to give us new core weapons (they should) or pair scepter with something else for the new specialization, it could straight up change sword and axe skills when they're paired with it. For example, Temporal Rift can turn into Spirit Rift that work similarly but requires a target and after knocking it down applies vulnerability.

It's a lot of hoops to jump through to get it to work. I had to design a mechanic that actually flies in the face of Revenant's core identity just to get close and it still wasn't even close enough.

You may be beginning to see its complications and its only going to get worse from here.

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@Doctor.1384 said:No one wants ritualist because you cant have greatsword on a ritualist because ritualist cant have greatsword

says who? I played a Rit/Derv Spirit's Strength Scythe build in GW1... Professions in GW1 weren't limited by weapon choice like they are in GW2, so literally any profession could use anything. There were some melee weapon Rit builds, that's just a fact. And GS on Rev for a Rit inspired E-spec wouldn't necessarily have to function as full melee either, which further adds to the idea that it would be possible to get a Rit inspired spec for Rev and also get GS at the same time. Personally, I'd rather Scepter + Focus, but think GS could work as well

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@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

@Doctor.1384 said:No one wants ritualist because you cant have greatsword on a ritualist because ritualist cant have greatsword

says who? I played a Rit/Derv Spirit's Strength Scythe build in GW1... Professions in GW1 weren't limited by weapon choice like they are in GW2, so literally any profession could use anything. There were some melee weapon Rit builds, that's just a fact. And GS on Rev for a Rit inspired E-spec wouldn't necessarily have to function as full melee either, which further adds to the idea that it would be possible to get a Rit inspired spec for Rev and also get GS at the same time. Personally, I'd rather Scepter + Focus, but think GS could work as well

Can confirm. Used to mess around with spirit strength and a spear, but I would dabble with melee weapons occasionally. Rits just didn't have enough armor for the front lines, but revs do.

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  • 4 weeks later...

It just dawn on me, but I'd love the next elite spec to be Nika and for or it be really power offensive. While, id prefer Greatsword I think it would be ok if we got dagger for both slots. Shiro imo for pve doesnt really go well with much and we basically just camp sword / sword. (I'll reiterate im talking for power here).

It terms of ritualist tho, they should add a legend to core for invocation filling that fantasy and add scepter/ focus / dagger with that. God knows rev is seriously lacking in the customization and its mainly due to our inability to customize our skill bars and extremely small weapon pool.

Imo I want the legend to be a memorable character with a SOLID weapon and skill set. Kalla was awful because she came from no where im terms of gw1 lore, her weapon shortbow was wonky (bloodbane path of frustration and seven arrow of missing) and the spirits that suck with geometry. It was half decent at condi but has always felt like hybrid. I really hope the 3rd elite will do better because kalla and glint have honestly been a such a hard let down.

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@Lily.1935 said:

@Lily.1935 said:Ritualist summons the dead. The revenant has no such limitations. This might be hard for you to hear this, but the only limitation the Revenant has is that the person they're channeling has to currently be in the mists. It doesn't mean they have to be dead. We saw this with Palawa Joko in the Living story and its likely that the revenant could channel someone like Arkk who never technically died but is lost in the mists. You want to hyper narrow the Revenant's scope to the Death magic that the Ritualist and Necromancer both share. When there is no such limitations. Revenant magic is chaotic and unstable. The stabilizing element is their Legend which grants them access to their abilities. They are more akin to a Blue mage. I will not ignore some of the similarities they have with both necromancer and Ritualist, they do have some. But I also can't ignore the Identity of the ritualist which is that of a Shaman dancer, using bones and ashes to commune with the dead.

I think it's a bit deeper than that. Revenants have to channel someone which had a significant enough impact to leave a strong echo in the Mists. Joko, for instance, is an individual who has shaped Elonian history for centuries, and not just in the obvious way - the rise to power of the Ossa family and the founding of the Order of Whispers were both in response to him. He's definitely a revenant legend candidate, albeit probably one the PC will never use thanks to that "ugh, never again" response. There are actually pretty strong signs that, contrary to what the PC thought, Joko had already left the mists at that point, but there was still enough there to use.

Characters whose main claim to fame is opposing a particular villain, however, do not seem to qualify - in these cases, it's the villain that created a big enough impact for the legend to form around. For instance, Shiro represents the events of Factions and the Jade Wind - Vizu, Archemorous, and the others are part of Shiro's legend. The exception seems to be when the primary actor is of the power level of a god or Elder Dragon, or is a dependent champion of an Elder Dragon, such as the Great Destroyer. Now, I don't think ArenaNet has explicitly stated that these are the requirements, but it does seem to fit what we've seen thus far - a legend must have had a significant impact on at least one culture, and they have to do so at least partially on their own initiative rather than simply trying to stop someone else.

Ironically, if we were to have another legend focused around summoning spirits, I could see it being King Adelbern.

There is a problem with this hypothesis of yours. And that's Mallyx. Mallyx is not a significant demon in the lore of Tyria and had little individual impact on the story. Varesh Ossa on the other hand was quite prominent. There is no suggestion that the Revenant can channels legends that are currently in Tyria, although considering that Time is irrelevant to the mists, they could channel a version of King Adelbern. Although if you wanted to play like the king he'd function more like a Minion Master as opposed to a Spirit spammer since he's acting as a commander of forces not a conjurer of the mists.

The Legends must be significant enough in some way. Either powerful or legendary. Much of what the Revenant does would technically allow them to act as any profession in the game, They could channel a necromancer or warrior just fine and gain there abilities. Arkk is a legend that could be channeled. If personal legend is a factor, he's known among Mist being. Otherwise his mother who spearheaded the fractals project in the first place would be a legend enough to be called on.

Usoku Is such a legend that would satisfy your criteria though. His actions are influenced by Shiro, but Shiro's actions were influenced by a minor demon in the story.

Um yes Mallyx was huge tho, He was a last general of Abaddon and was out to kill Kormir AFTER she had ascended to godhood. A feat well within his capabilities. He was lvl 33 in Hard Mode meaning he was stronger than Abaddon himself. He was damn near unkillable in GW1. No, he was part of the main story but he did play a huge part of the story in the Realm of Torment. I like the fact the GW2 gives him a nod as rev is suppose to be a veteran class its nice to see hardcore GW1 stuff acknowledge. Varesh was just a traitor by comparison and not even relevant in term of power.

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@Hitomi Shadowleaf.5629 said:

@Lily.1935 said:Ritualist summons the dead. The revenant has no such limitations. This might be hard for you to hear this, but the only limitation the Revenant has is that the person they're channeling has to currently be in the mists. It doesn't mean they have to be dead. We saw this with Palawa Joko in the Living story and its likely that the revenant could channel someone like Arkk who never technically died but is lost in the mists. You want to hyper narrow the Revenant's scope to the Death magic that the Ritualist and Necromancer both share. When there is no such limitations. Revenant magic is chaotic and unstable. The stabilizing element is their Legend which grants them access to their abilities. They are more akin to a Blue mage. I will not ignore some of the similarities they have with both necromancer and Ritualist, they do have some. But I also can't ignore the Identity of the ritualist which is that of a Shaman dancer, using bones and ashes to commune with the dead.

I think it's a bit deeper than that. Revenants have to channel someone which had a significant enough impact to leave a strong echo in the Mists. Joko, for instance, is an individual who has shaped Elonian history for centuries, and not just in the obvious way - the rise to power of the Ossa family and the founding of the Order of Whispers were both in response to him. He's definitely a revenant legend candidate, albeit probably one the PC will never use thanks to that "ugh, never again" response. There are actually pretty strong signs that, contrary to what the PC thought, Joko had already left the mists at that point, but there was still enough there to use.

Characters whose main claim to fame is opposing a particular villain, however, do not seem to qualify - in these cases, it's the villain that created a big enough impact for the legend to form around. For instance, Shiro represents the events of Factions and the Jade Wind - Vizu, Archemorous, and the others are part of Shiro's legend. The exception seems to be when the primary actor is of the power level of a god or Elder Dragon, or is a dependent champion of an Elder Dragon, such as the Great Destroyer. Now, I don't think ArenaNet has explicitly stated that these are the requirements, but it does seem to fit what we've seen thus far - a legend must have had a significant impact on at least one culture, and they have to do so at least partially on their own initiative rather than simply trying to stop someone else.

Ironically, if we were to have another legend focused around summoning spirits, I could see it being King Adelbern.

There is a problem with this hypothesis of yours. And that's Mallyx. Mallyx is not a significant demon in the lore of Tyria and had little individual impact on the story. Varesh Ossa on the other hand was quite prominent. There is no suggestion that the Revenant can channels legends that are currently in Tyria, although considering that Time is irrelevant to the mists, they could channel a version of King Adelbern. Although if you wanted to play like the king he'd function more like a Minion Master as opposed to a Spirit spammer since he's acting as a commander of forces not a conjurer of the mists.

The Legends must be significant enough in some way. Either powerful or legendary. Much of what the Revenant does would technically allow them to act as any profession in the game, They could channel a necromancer or warrior just fine and gain there abilities. Arkk is a legend that could be channeled. If personal legend is a factor, he's known among Mist being. Otherwise his mother who spearheaded the fractals project in the first place would be a legend enough to be called on.

Usoku Is such a legend that would satisfy your criteria though. His actions are influenced by Shiro, but Shiro's actions were influenced by a minor demon in the story.

Um yes Mallyx was huge tho, He was a last general of Abaddon and was out to kill Kormir AFTER she had ascended to godhood. A feat well within his capabilities. He was lvl 33 in Hard Mode meaning he was stronger than Abaddon himself. He was kitten near unkillable in GW1. No, he was part of the main story but he did play a huge part of the story in the Realm of Torment. I like the fact the GW2 gives him a nod as rev is suppose to be a veteran class its nice to see hardcore GW1 stuff acknowledge. Varesh was just a traitor by comparison and not even relevant in term of power.

Power is not the determining factor. There really isn't a criteria on what legends can be summoned at all. Mallyx isn't a well known historical figure. This is just fact. How powerful he was is irrelevant. Look at Ventari. A very well known legend, but not known for his power. In his time he was no more powerful than your average centaur commander which we killed dozens in the story like they were nothing. He was a pacifist first. His legend is one that can be called on too. If power was a determining factor Ventari would be too weak

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  • 4 months later...

@Hitomi Shadowleaf.5629 said:It just dawn on me, but I'd love the next elite spec to be Nika and for or it be really power offensive. While, id prefer Greatsword I think it would be ok if we got dagger for both slots. Shiro imo for pve doesnt really go well with much and we basically just camp sword / sword. (I'll reiterate im talking for power here).

It terms of ritualist tho, they should add a legend to core for invocation filling that fantasy and add scepter/ focus / dagger with that. God knows rev is seriously lacking in the customization and its mainly due to our inability to customize our skill bars and extremely small weapon pool.

Imo I want the legend to be a memorable character with a SOLID weapon and skill set. Kalla was awful because she came from no where im terms of gw1 lore, her weapon shortbow was wonky (bloodbane path of frustration and seven arrow of missing) and the spirits that suck with geometry. It was half decent at condi but has always felt like hybrid. I really hope the 3rd elite will do better because kalla and glint have honestly been a such a hard let down.

I think Nika is really unlikely to happen because of thematical reasons.Nika is first and foremost an assassin. We already have a legendary assassin, Shiro Tagachi. I don't think that they will add another Canthan assassin to revenants legends.

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@Hitomi Shadowleaf.5629 said:It just dawn on me, but I'd love the next elite spec to be Nika and for or it be really power offensive. While, id prefer Greatsword I think it would be ok if we got dagger for both slots. Shiro imo for pve doesnt really go well with much and we basically just camp sword / sword. (I'll reiterate im talking for power here).

It terms of ritualist tho, they should add a legend to core for invocation filling that fantasy and add scepter/ focus / dagger with that. God knows rev is seriously lacking in the customization and its mainly due to our inability to customize our skill bars and extremely small weapon pool.

Imo I want the legend to be a memorable character with a SOLID weapon and skill set. Kalla was awful because she came from no where im terms of gw1 lore, her weapon shortbow was wonky (bloodbane path of frustration and seven arrow of missing) and the spirits that suck with geometry. It was half decent at condi but has always felt like hybrid. I really hope the 3rd elite will do better because kalla and glint have honestly been a such a hard let down.

Eh, power revenant has a lot of options. Herald works better with power than conditions, although it is sometimes used as a 'least bad' partner for Mallyx condition builds because Glint at least brings some conditions while bringing some strong sustain. Kalla, for all that shortbow is a hybrid weapon, actually works a lot better with power than conditions (consider that three out of four of her offensive spirits scale with power, and the one that IS condition-oriented is bad to the point where it might almost be a buff to simply delete it from the bar so you don't accidentally waste energy on it). Even in core, Jalis is a pretty good alternative power option, and in some content is actually preferred over Shiro for CC, stability, and/or extra durability.

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gonna just go re-roll then, Honestly Id rather them remove the class than force it to have another renegade like spec. I will never understand when there is SO MUCH unique and rich lore and characters out there WHY people need to force this class to become the ritualist. Please shove it on something,, anything else and let us get a unique legend thats not just freak'n togo.

Whatever, give me my bunny thumper and Ill hop to ranger. Like for real~ Im over caring about the lore/theme of this class with how its players think.

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@Thornwolf.9721 said:gonna just go re-roll then, Honestly Id rather them remove the class than force it to have another renegade like spec. I will never understand when there is SO MUCH unique and rich lore and characters out there WHY people need to force this class to become the ritualist. Please shove it on something,, anything else and let us get a unique legend thats not just freak'n togo.

Whatever, give me my bunny thumper and Ill hop to ranger. Like for real~ Im over caring about the lore/theme of this class with how its players think.

People don't force anything, Rev is reimagined Rit thematically and it's quite obvious. Engineer got the gameplay and Rev the theme. You may not like it but that's how it is and you're welcome to swap professions as Rev is not a Twilight wielding brooding edgelord you want it to be. Renegade did get spirits, but if you bothered to read my first post you'd know that I'd like the next one (whether they call it Ritualist or not) to draw inspiration from Channeling magic and spice up our bruiser-ish gameplay.

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@Thornwolf.9721 said:anything else and let us get a unique legend thats not just freak'n togo.

Agree. Never understood the fascination with Togo. He‘s one of the most boring characters in the whole franchise imo.The only thing he did that made him a hero, or worthy of „legend“ status, was the treaty with the Tengu, which would give us a Legendary Negotiator Stance. (And the peace didn‘t last long, with the growing canthan xenophobia).Aside from that he’s just a side character in Shiro‘s story, a victim to grant Shiro his life back.

Revenants aren‘t boring paperwork negotiators.

Not to mention Togo is just another human, another canthan one, too.I don‘t think Anet is going to add another one into the legend lineup. Each legend until now has been another species.

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@Elric.4713 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:gonna just go re-roll then, Honestly Id rather them remove the class than force it to have another renegade like spec. I will never understand when there is SO MUCH unique and rich lore and characters out there WHY people need to force this class to become the ritualist. Please shove it on something,, anything else and let us get a unique legend thats not just freak'n togo.

Whatever, give me my bunny thumper and Ill hop to ranger. Like for real~ Im over caring about the lore/theme of this class with how its players think.

People don't force anything, Rev is reimagined Rit thematically and it's quite obvious. Engineer got the gameplay and Rev the theme. You may not like it but that's how it is and you're welcome to swap professions as Rev is not a Twilight wielding brooding edgelord you want it to be. Renegade did get spirits, but if you bothered to read my first post you'd know that I'd like the next one (whether they call it Ritualist or not) to draw inspiration from Channeling magic and spice up our bruiser-ish gameplay.

I dont want it to be a twilight wielding edgelord, I want something thats cooler than ritualist. I dont want to channel ANOTHER human and I dont want to be tied to ritualist as a profession when there are two other classes who fit the theme as well. Guardian in the art book is referenced as being the spiritual successor and has monk, paragon and ritualist teachings rolled into one. Warrior got paragon when guardian would of fit it better (Spellbreaker is the paragon) Likely and hopefully revenant gets something more inspired and isn't pushed into ritualist because they have similarities.. Ritualist is to warlock, as revenant is to demon hunter. Both classes are different and both shouldn't be limited by the other. I mean the community around rev clearly don't know jack about the class; Rytlock is the first and revenant does not exist within cantha at this point. Ritualist has more in common with necromancer as it deals with the dead but not nessacarily the mists itself. I think that guardian could use a theme darker than what its had and ritualist could offer that too them. I think that their virtues turning to ashes would be cool, being given turrets with the spirits would be neat and allowing for their weapon to use channeling magic would be cool as well.... plus it would allow revenant some time to breath and to not just become a carbon clone of something that it was meant to move away from. This is just as bad as the greatsword arguement.... its litterally the same arguement but for different things; When we have more lore and worthy characters than just Togo because you know if we get Rit; He will be the legend. And I do not want that once so ever.

@Raknar.4735 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:anything else and let us get a unique legend thats not just freak'n togo.

Agree. Never understood the fascination with Togo. He‘s one of the most boring characters in the whole franchise imo.The only thing he did that made him a hero, or worthy of „legend“ status, was the treaty with the Tengu, which would give us a Legendary Negotiator Stance. (And the peace didn‘t last long, with the growing canthan xenophobia).Aside from that he’s just a side character in Shiro‘s story, a victim to grant Shiro his life back.

Revenants aren‘t boring paperwork negotiators.

Not to mention Togo is just another human, another canthan one, too.I don‘t think Anet is going to add another one into the legend lineup. Each legend until now has been another species.

Considering the want for this? I wont be surprised. I mean likely the want I have for a Norn character so we can have a norse themed legend; Will never come to frution. Hell I wouldn't mind an asruan one either as we know Zinn was a big guy as was gaad and oola. Olaf basically had become a king to the norn, and asgeir is a champion with svanir being their version of loki/fenrir/jormungandr.... all three would be freaking baller to have as a legend. But everyone is hung up on togo and ritualist.... makes me sick.

I want to throw this out there too NEITHER one of the E-specs for ritualist fit with their expansion, Kalla was picked because of what she stood for. Glint was chosen because of what she represents, Going based on their track record the next legend wont be canthan and wont come from cantha. Given that cantha likely does not have revenants as rytlock was the first; I believe we will get something from kryta and the mainland and it will either be a norn or an asuran. Given the lore about Olaf and Asgeir I think they are the most likely canidates.... both are pretty big names too.

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I would note here that, strictly speaking, spellbreaker is closer to dervish than paragon. Yeah, there's the symbolism of the broken spears... but the skill names and effects associated with spellbreaker are closer to dervish than anything paragon had. Guardian is still the spiritual successor to paragon, spellbreaker is just something that grew out of the ashes of the Sunspear Order (which, symbolism aside, wasn't ALL Paragons).

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@Obtena.7952 said:I think Ritualist is too obvious a play for Anet ... and traditionally they turn things on their head and don't do what people would anticipate.

Yep. I was shocked when I saw in the Renegade the breakstun sharing place with the healing skill... Masterpiece movement, what a brilliant moment of genius! They surprised everyone with that unexpected moment of awe!

Related to the topic, not fan of Ritualist. Whatever weapon/s they chose, better have a defensive and movement skill, because the shield, short bow and trident are static as f. Before PoF I would love pistols, but ANet is unable to make viable ranged weapons for the class, so a mele gs would work (or even better, a mele hammer, or even a ground spear). Lore? Anything Norn, Kodan or even corrupted quaggan (Rev feels underdeveloped and lore isn't an exception).

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It is hard to predict then next spec for rev. Herald never worked in PvE. Thematically it is supposed to be support, but it is not. Renegade is a mess of dysfunctional designs that work through sheer buffs. It is now the leading power, condi and support build. Also, strongest range option.

Anet hamstringed themselves with locking utilities. Anything comes have to ensure it does not double-up on shiro’s mobility or jailis sustainability (though the later has many design issues).

Ranged power weapon would be ideal. Like guardian scepter. As much as people keep hammering on GS, I don’t think it is coming, ever. Thematically, does not work well with rev. From game play, ranged power is what is missing from rev arsenal. Could we see a change in how the new elite uses utilities? Would be nice, but I doubt Anet will be that creative.

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@"Silesium.5623" said:Revenant = Use legends to power up x Dervish = Use gods to power upHerald = Use Special Support Buff x Paragon = Use Special Support BuffKylla = Summon Charrs (spirits) x Ritualist = Summon SpiritsSo prop now they will make elita with assassin class mechanic.

Shiro is pretty much already assassin - it's even called Legendary Assassin Stance (even if I think it should possibly have been Legendary Envoy Stance). Personally, too, I'd also regard herald as being more dervish than paragon: the facets basically follow the theme of "bring up an enchantment, then consume the enchantment for an effect". I did a writeup back before HoT on how a dervish-like playstyle could be incorporated into GW2, and the Glint facets could well have used it as a design document. (I'm not saying they DID, it's much more likely that it was just convergent ideas, but still...)

Jalis and Mallyx are also both a bit dervish-like, albeit more in the sense of being AoE-focused melee combatants.

@otto.5684 said:It is hard to predict then next spec for rev. Herald never worked in PvE. Thematically it is supposed to be support, but it is not. Renegade is a mess of dysfunctional designs that work through sheer buffs. It is now the leading power, condi and support build. Also, strongest range option.

Anet hamstringed themselves with locking utilities. Anything comes have to ensure it does not double-up on shiro’s mobility or jailis sustainability (though the later has many design issues).

Ranged power weapon would be ideal. Like guardian scepter. As much as people keep hammering on GS, I don’t think it is coming, ever. Thematically, does not work well with rev. From game play, ranged power is what is missing from rev arsenal. Could we see a change in how the new elite uses utilities? Would be nice, but I doubt Anet will be that creative.

Rev has a ranged power weapon, it's core's only ranged weapon in fact, ArenaNet just needs to make it worth using outside of WvW.

Heck, even shortbow works fairly well with power builds.

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@draxynnic.3719 I know hammer exists. But... it is kinda where guardian LB and warrior rifle are. Some niche uses in PvP, and not much else. I am thinking the new weapon could be something similar to guardian scepter. Where it works in tandom with sword in PvE.

And ya, SB is the strongest rev ranged power weapon. Also the condi ranged weapon. Also, renegade has the best power, condi and support builds for rev. You can see the issue here.

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