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The Death of Thief


darren.1064

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A lot of mat thief players arent comfortable with their abilities at that level on other classes so they continue to play their and do best they can within match. Some have stated they'd have left the class by now if they were good enough on others. In time I bet we see less thieves as long time thief players get comfortable on other classes that provide more help to a team then just decapping.

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@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:A lot of mat thief players arent comfortable with their abilities at that level on other classes so they continue to play their and do best they can within match. Some have stated they'd have left the class by now if they were good enough on others. In time I bet we see less thieves as long time thief players get comfortable on other classes that provide more help to a team then just decapping.

That may be true. I've known quite a few thiefs that now play ranger or other classes, but that's really unfair to ask from a gamer that likes the way a class works to change their class just because it's only got 1-2 usable builds. If that's happening with the top mat players--just think about all those average and not so good players. They're the majority of the pvp community, and I can tell you (if you haven't been in Gold or below in a long while) that they get SO MUCH HATE from other players telling them what to they're supposed to be doing--or to just not being at the right place in that curve to really help the team & causing losses.

Sometimes if you like a class you just have to suffer through seasons. I expect there's going to be a better balance patch in the next 1-2 seasons, now that the coefficient patch is fully realized. Can't tell you how many seasons I was pigeonholed into certain ranger builds because nothing else was really viable. I miss the days of being able to run around with spirits, (and those days are never coming back) but I still am not really changing all my gears and going other classes just because the things I wish could work. I just love the way ranger plays too much, and if it means I can't break out of Gold 3 because I don't want to always play the main viable meta builds...it's just what has to happen. But this also means that I'm demolishing thiefs in the lower ranks with impunity, so I can't really blame someone for wanting to throw in the towel.

I'm also not the same as most players, and I definitely feel for the average players that are bright-eyed and want to pvp...and then just get the light snuffed out of them.

I'm starting to think more and more that some skills need to be very separated between mAT, sPVP, and WvW. It would be more work on Anets part...but having that line drawn will enable more players at all levels to have more fun. That's the main thing that should matter (the fun) not "how good is this going to be in the mAT?"-Eros of Ascalon

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@Project exa.3204 said:Chiming in as a lifelong ranger here,

I'm not sure what needs to be done, but killing thiefs of any kind seems to be easier than ever. There are some super gimmicky playstyles out there right now that might get a win or two here and there...but overall thiefs seem to be comparatively much weaker post-coefficient update. I don't know why anyone would play one unless the only thing they wanted to do was decap points and be a +1. The 2v2 season was just a preview, and a buddy of mine stopped playing his thief almost all together. Running a thief in 2v2 in the mini season was like running into a brick wall for any team that capitalized on combos. The proper 5v5 matches exacerbate the combo problems now.

Now, post coefficient patch, the power creep is a little more noticeable. Rangers at least probably are rightfully due for a big nerf in the future. Just about anything a thief can do, I feel a ranger can do better somehow. Power? Check. Condi? Check. Survivability? Check. CC? Check. Mobility? Close enough to not notice. Even stealth? Rangers have it too & can abuse it if they really tried.

Thiefs may still be workable with certain builds to get wins, but if the only thing the thief can really do is decap points & pray there's no bunker...that definitely is not fun or fair to require from people that want to play thief. The last patch did a lot of things, but really benefitted rangers the most. It unlocked so many new different builds that are viable now. Thiefs? The opposite happened. There are less viable builds now.

This might be possibly TOO radical....but if Anet just made thiefs capable of killing through invulnerability or more unblockables--it would allow for many different thief builds to be put into play. It would be a perfect fit for a thief to cancel out a shrinking engi, or a guard, or a signet ranger AND it would make playing thief more fun again.

Just my two coppers!-Eros of Ascalon

omg Eros hello! it's Homi

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@Highlie.7641 said:You need to troll more and care less. a profession that becomes completely redundant with proper positioning can only be considered a meme,

thieves don't have a Role. what thieves are doing is an effect. Stop over rotating and thieves can't +1 or Decap….

you didn't actually read what I wrote, did you?

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@"Arheundel.6451" said:That overall..."arrogance" of thief players for having that mentality where : " I only die if I want to die and I kill you when I want"...makes my blood boil , do you think that people buy the game to be your personal toy in a virtual playground ?

Nobody in his right mind would play a game only to be in fear of a seemingly invincible enemy that can pop out of nowhere doing life threatening damage before slipping back into invisible mode

Let's start from removing stealth from GW2, that should bring back the idea of "high risk" for some burst builds in this game

+1

exactly this is one main reason why many do not play Guild Wars 2. With Guild Wars 2 being the most Bad Design Stealth Mechanic; what Profession comes into mind? Cetainly not Mesmer Profession but Thief Profession

since Guild Wars 2 beta, the majority of us constantly warned Anet to take Thief Profession stealth very seriously because it is game breaking in resulting in population drop with having negative consequences of word-of-mouth and streaming of its Toxicity of the game.

Fast forward, it came into existence-, 'Stay away from Guild Wars 2, Do Not Play Guild Wars 2 because you will be +1 shotted in stealth by a Thief class''You Can Perma-Stealth In Guild Wars 2' They do not see anything wrong with it' 'I wouldn't touch that game if i were you'

In addition, we have lost many players including many influential players who helped encouraged in game players including in helping attract new potential players.

The competitive gaming industry non-Guild Wars 2 players are afraid to play this game especially know that stealth is broken in the game with the help of a bad design class who are given full permission to abuse it at will, with having absolute any consequences-counter to it. 'Why bother play a game where stealth doesn't offer any counter' they would say.

8 years what necessary steps have taken to address this Toxic Bad Design Mechanic to draw 'new blood' into the game and to give comfort to the competitive gaming industry that they do not have to be afraid to come here?

ABSOLUTELY NONE!!

There is no 'if' anymore, It Is What Guild Wars 2 Present Stealth Mechanic As, Toxic-Stay Far Away!! You Will Regret It If You Are Willing To Risk It!!

In conclusion; i am no longer able to defend this game anymore because history is written all over the internet. With 8 Years with continuation history, there is nothing i can do but watch at a distance

A distance as being a Guild Wars 2 beta player and as a Guild Wars 1 veteran.....speaking the same...repetitive Truth

Toxicity Is The Death To Competitive Gaming and To Players Experience~~

Toxicity Is Non Negotiable and no amount of money thrown at it or to cover it up will stop it!!

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@Burnfall.9573 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:That overall..."arrogance" of thief players for having that mentality where : " I only die if I want to die and I kill you when I want"...makes my blood boil , do you think that people buy the game to be your personal toy in a virtual playground ?

Nobody in his right mind would play a game only to be in fear of a seemingly invincible enemy that can pop out of nowhere doing life threatening damage before slipping back into invisible mode

Let's start
from removing stealth from GW2
, that should bring back the idea of "high risk" for some burst builds in this game

+1

exactly this is one main reason why many do not play Guild Wars 2. With Guild Wars 2 being the most Bad Design Stealth Mechanic; what Profession comes into mind? Cetainly not Mesmer Profession but Thief Profession

since Guild Wars 2 beta, the majority of us constantly warned Anet to take Thief Profession stealth very seriously because it is game breaking in resulting in population drop with having negative consequences of word-of-mouth and streaming of its Toxicity of the game.

Fast forward, it came into existence-, 'Stay away from Guild Wars 2, Do Not Play Guild Wars 2 because you will be +1 shotted in stealth by a Thief class'

In addition, we have lost many players including many influential players who helped encouraged in game players including in helping attract new potential players.

The competitive gaming industry non-Guild Wars 2 players are afraid to play this game especially know that stealth is broken in the game with the help of a bad design class who are given full permission to abuse it at will, with having absolute any consequences-counter to it. 'Why bother play a game where stealth doesn't offer any counter' they would say.

8 years what necessary steps have taken to address this Toxic Bad Design Mechanic to draw 'new blood' into the game and to give comfort to the competitive gaming industry that they do not have to be afraid to come here?

ABSOLUTELY NONE!!

Stealth is not badly design. It's one of the only things keeping thief from being completely eliminated from Guild Wars 2 right now. The original Guild Wars assassin even had Shadow Form which is a derivative of what we currently play with now. Stealth is not the problem since multiple professions have skills and traits that reveal thieves from stealth or force thieves into a position where we are unable to go into stealth. Ranger, Engineer, Warrior, Rev, Necro. That of itself shows that stealth already has counterplay. Now if you want to be emotional and just live in a state of fear about thieves going into stealth, or if you want to use counterplay against the profession is your choice. Furthermore, thief has never just 1shot people out of stealth unless they are fellow members of the glass army. Glass builds have always been categorized as high risk, high reward. If a core elementalist or another thief presents themselves running a high risk builds, then they're obviously willing to accept the high risk consequences. Lets go into builds that have historically provided the most counterplay to thieves: scrappers, core necro and scourge, spellbreaker warriors, core and druid and soulbeast ranger, among other builds providing support like tempest, all guardians and even herald revenants. All of these professions have skills or traits to counter thief stealth, so obviously these classes are provided with some form of way to combat thieves unlike your mentality would suggest. If you think thief is so easy, then why don't you try playing it and getting back to me?

Furthermore, the past of thief should and shouldn't have an effect on where thief is currently at. Yes some thief skills were absolutely overtuned: Assassin's Signet is a skill that I think should be absolutely nerfed due to the insane amount of power it gives. However, when thieves are at a point where there is nowhere or nothing for them to do in games aside from decapping, there's a problem. Not to mention if a thief is forced into a fight for a decap, they are absolutely going to die due to having no damage or sustain. Some currently popular side "noders" (I hate the word node) include engineers, revenants, rangers, guardians and necros. Classes that i've already outlined have plentiful counterplay to thief stealth. However stealth is not the problem in these fights: damage, sustain, initiative are what separates thieves from these other professions. A thief can have all the skill in the world, think Vallun or whoever the other big thief streamer is. You can put them against a gold tier engineer or even gold/silver ranger and I can absolutely guarantee that Vallun will 100% lose every single time. Sorry Vallun, don't block me or focus me in games. So if thieves can only decap as long as there's nobody on the point (and since this is now officially Bunker Wars) what's the point of even joining a game as you'll be inefficient and able to even contribute anything to your team or the game?

I know you won't be able to provide a single answer, but think: if there's already plentiful counterplay to thief, why should thieves be forced down and pigeonholed into the sunken place just because people at your skill level can't play? I can guarantee you thieves in silver/gold aren't just one shotting people out of stealth because that's out of their skill level. While I support thief not being a gimmick profession as can be seen with the condi builds that pop up and quite simply shouldn't exist, the power builds require 100% skill and to say anything else is simply blasphemous.

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This is really funny cause every thief main is being melodramatic, OU NOWS, thief can't oneshot people anymore like the last fucking patch and get all points. It is not even benched like most professions when they get the nerf bat, it is still meta. It is not like the previous season thieves were forcing people deeper in the bunker role since you couldn't catch up to them and they did hyper damage, thieves had their fun but now "ou my the turntables", everyone is on some type of bunker build, it is not like it wasn't expected.Thief meta just sucks for everyone else.I don't see much whining from warriors since they are kinda meh this patch, not bad, not good but still kinda there doing their thing , but then again rolling core necro or fb would probably be better.Calm your mammaries the current bunker builds would get a shave and thief will be able to stab them to death again, it is not like there aren't viable builds for thief.

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@"Vancho.8750" said:This is really funny cause every thief main is being melodramatic, OU NOWS, thief can't oneshot people anymore like the last kitten patch and get all points. It is not even benched like most professions when they get the nerf bat, it is still meta. It is not like the previous season thieves were forcing people deeper in the bunker role since you couldn't catch up to them and they did hyper damage, thieves had their fun but now "ou my the turntables", everyone is on some type of bunker build, it is not like it wasn't expected.Thief meta just sucks for everyone else.I don't see much whining from warriors since they are kinda meh this patch, not bad, not good but still kinda there doing their thing , but then again rolling core necro or fb would probably be better.Calm your mammaries the current bunker builds would get a shave and thief will be able to stab them to death again, it is not like there aren't viable builds for thief.

name a viable non-cheese build for thief.

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@darren.1064 said:

@"Vancho.8750" said:This is really funny cause every thief main is being melodramatic, OU NOWS, thief can't oneshot people anymore like the last kitten patch and get all points. It is not even benched like most professions when they get the nerf bat, it is still meta. It is not like the previous season thieves were forcing people deeper in the bunker role since you couldn't catch up to them and they did hyper damage, thieves had their fun but now "ou my the turntables", everyone is on some type of bunker build, it is not like it wasn't expected.Thief meta just sucks for everyone else.I don't see much whining from warriors since they are kinda meh this patch, not bad, not good but still kinda there doing their thing , but then again rolling core necro or fb would probably be better.Calm your mammaries the current bunker builds would get a shave and thief will be able to stab them to death again, it is not like there aren't viable builds for thief.

name a viable non-cheese build for thief.Well i can't cause the class is kinda cheese by default. Maybe they will make the next elite non cheese.

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@Vancho.8750 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:This is really funny cause every thief main is being melodramatic, OU NOWS, thief can't oneshot people anymore like the last kitten patch and get all points. It is not even benched like most professions when they get the nerf bat, it is still meta. It is not like the previous season thieves were forcing people deeper in the bunker role since you couldn't catch up to them and they did hyper damage, thieves had their fun but now "ou my the turntables", everyone is on some type of bunker build, it is not like it wasn't expected.Thief meta just sucks for everyone else.I don't see much whining from warriors since they are kinda meh this patch, not bad, not good but still kinda there doing their thing , but then again rolling core necro or fb would probably be better.Calm your mammaries the current bunker builds would get a shave and thief will be able to stab them to death again, it is not like there aren't viable builds for thief.

name a viable non-cheese build for thief.Well i can't cause the class is kinda cheese by default. Maybe they will make the next elite non cheese.

Okay, now name a viable build for thief that uses cheese. I'll make it easier for you.

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@darren.1064 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:This is really funny cause every thief main is being melodramatic, OU NOWS, thief can't oneshot people anymore like the last kitten patch and get all points. It is not even benched like most professions when they get the nerf bat, it is still meta. It is not like the previous season thieves were forcing people deeper in the bunker role since you couldn't catch up to them and they did hyper damage, thieves had their fun but now "ou my the turntables", everyone is on some type of bunker build, it is not like it wasn't expected.Thief meta just sucks for everyone else.I don't see much whining from warriors since they are kinda meh this patch, not bad, not good but still kinda there doing their thing , but then again rolling core necro or fb would probably be better.Calm your mammaries the current bunker builds would get a shave and thief will be able to stab them to death again, it is not like there aren't viable builds for thief.

name a viable non-cheese build for thief.Well i can't cause the class is kinda cheese by default. Maybe they will make the next elite non cheese.

Okay, now name a viable build for thief that uses cheese. I'll make it easier for you.Here you go
,
. It is really funny cause there are allot of builds for thief on metabatlle and then looked at warrior having 2 which are kinda the same, lol. I think only engi had more builds listed then thief.
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@Vancho.8750 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:This is really funny cause every thief main is being melodramatic, OU NOWS, thief can't oneshot people anymore like the last kitten patch and get all points. It is not even benched like most professions when they get the nerf bat, it is still meta. It is not like the previous season thieves were forcing people deeper in the bunker role since you couldn't catch up to them and they did hyper damage, thieves had their fun but now "ou my the turntables", everyone is on some type of bunker build, it is not like it wasn't expected.Thief meta just sucks for everyone else.I don't see much whining from warriors since they are kinda meh this patch, not bad, not good but still kinda there doing their thing , but then again rolling core necro or fb would probably be better.Calm your mammaries the current bunker builds would get a shave and thief will be able to stab them to death again, it is not like there aren't viable builds for thief.

name a viable non-cheese build for thief.Well i can't cause the class is kinda cheese by default. Maybe they will make the next elite non cheese.

Okay, now name a viable build for thief that uses cheese. I'll make it easier for you.Here you go
,
. It is really funny cause there are allot of builds for thief on metabatlle and then looked at warrior having 2 which are kinda the same, lol. I think only engi had more builds listed then thief.

I looked at those for 30 seconds and I can tell you right now that none of those builds are doing anything but showcasing my point further. They're simple +1 and decapping builds. None of them are winning a single 1v1.

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@darren.1064 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:This is really funny cause every thief main is being melodramatic, OU NOWS, thief can't oneshot people anymore like the last kitten patch and get all points. It is not even benched like most professions when they get the nerf bat, it is still meta. It is not like the previous season thieves were forcing people deeper in the bunker role since you couldn't catch up to them and they did hyper damage, thieves had their fun but now "ou my the turntables", everyone is on some type of bunker build, it is not like it wasn't expected.Thief meta just sucks for everyone else.I don't see much whining from warriors since they are kinda meh this patch, not bad, not good but still kinda there doing their thing , but then again rolling core necro or fb would probably be better.Calm your mammaries the current bunker builds would get a shave and thief will be able to stab them to death again, it is not like there aren't viable builds for thief.

name a viable non-cheese build for thief.Well i can't cause the class is kinda cheese by default. Maybe they will make the next elite non cheese.

Okay, now name a viable build for thief that uses cheese. I'll make it easier for you.Here you go
,
. It is really funny cause there are allot of builds for thief on metabatlle and then looked at warrior having 2 which are kinda the same, lol. I think only engi had more builds listed then thief.

I looked at those for 30 seconds and I can tell you right now that none of those builds are doing anything but showcasing my point further. They're simple +1 and decapping builds. None of them are winning a single 1v1.Well i ain't seeing warriors winning teamfights or reapers winning 1v1 welcome to the pigeonholed club your class is bad at something by design.
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@Vancho.8750 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:This is really funny cause every thief main is being melodramatic, OU NOWS, thief can't oneshot people anymore like the last kitten patch and get all points. It is not even benched like most professions when they get the nerf bat, it is still meta. It is not like the previous season thieves were forcing people deeper in the bunker role since you couldn't catch up to them and they did hyper damage, thieves had their fun but now "ou my the turntables", everyone is on some type of bunker build, it is not like it wasn't expected.Thief meta just sucks for everyone else.I don't see much whining from warriors since they are kinda meh this patch, not bad, not good but still kinda there doing their thing , but then again rolling core necro or fb would probably be better.Calm your mammaries the current bunker builds would get a shave and thief will be able to stab them to death again, it is not like there aren't viable builds for thief.

name a viable non-cheese build for thief.Well i can't cause the class is kinda cheese by default. Maybe they will make the next elite non cheese.

Okay, now name a viable build for thief that uses cheese. I'll make it easier for you.Here you go
,
. It is really funny cause there are allot of builds for thief on metabatlle and then looked at warrior having 2 which are kinda the same, lol. I think only engi had more builds listed then thief.

I looked at those for 30 seconds and I can tell you right now that none of those builds are doing anything but showcasing my point further. They're simple +1 and decapping builds. None of them are winning a single 1v1.Well i ain't seeing warriors winning teamfights or reapers winning 1v1 welcome to the pigeonholed club your class is bad at something by design.

So.... You agree that warriors, reapers and thieves all need buffs? great. Therefore you agree with my post. You would know that if you actually read it.

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@Vancho.8750 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:This is really funny cause every thief main is being melodramatic, OU NOWS, thief can't oneshot people anymore like the last kitten patch and get all points. It is not even benched like most professions when they get the nerf bat, it is still meta. It is not like the previous season thieves were forcing people deeper in the bunker role since you couldn't catch up to them and they did hyper damage, thieves had their fun but now "ou my the turntables", everyone is on some type of bunker build, it is not like it wasn't expected.Thief meta just sucks for everyone else.I don't see much whining from warriors since they are kinda meh this patch, not bad, not good but still kinda there doing their thing , but then again rolling core necro or fb would probably be better.Calm your mammaries the current bunker builds would get a shave and thief will be able to stab them to death again, it is not like there aren't viable builds for thief.

name a viable non-cheese build for thief.Well i can't cause the class is kinda cheese by default. Maybe they will make the next elite non cheese.

Okay, now name a viable build for thief that uses cheese. I'll make it easier for you.Here you go
,
. It is really funny cause there are allot of builds for thief on metabatlle and then looked at warrior having 2 which are kinda the same, lol. I think only engi had more builds listed then thief.

I looked at those for 30 seconds and I can tell you right now that none of those builds are doing anything but showcasing my point further. They're simple +1 and decapping builds. None of them are winning a single 1v1.Well i ain't seeing warriors winning teamfights or reapers winning 1v1 welcome to the pigeonholed club your class is bad at something by design.

The more you talk with thieves or mesmers..the more you realize how much they are affected by a god complex, it's like they're out of touch with reality..they're asking for a build that snip-snap around the map at will, engage/disengage equally at will and ofc be able to 1v1 and win against anybody.....really

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:This is really funny cause every thief main is being melodramatic, OU NOWS, thief can't oneshot people anymore like the last kitten patch and get all points. It is not even benched like most professions when they get the nerf bat, it is still meta. It is not like the previous season thieves were forcing people deeper in the bunker role since you couldn't catch up to them and they did hyper damage, thieves had their fun but now "ou my the turntables", everyone is on some type of bunker build, it is not like it wasn't expected.Thief meta just sucks for everyone else.I don't see much whining from warriors since they are kinda meh this patch, not bad, not good but still kinda there doing their thing , but then again rolling core necro or fb would probably be better.Calm your mammaries the current bunker builds would get a shave and thief will be able to stab them to death again, it is not like there aren't viable builds for thief.

name a viable non-cheese build for thief.Well i can't cause the class is kinda cheese by default. Maybe they will make the next elite non cheese.

Okay, now name a viable build for thief that uses cheese. I'll make it easier for you.Here you go
,
. It is really funny cause there are allot of builds for thief on metabatlle and then looked at warrior having 2 which are kinda the same, lol. I think only engi had more builds listed then thief.

I looked at those for 30 seconds and I can tell you right now that none of those builds are doing anything but showcasing my point further. They're simple +1 and decapping builds. None of them are winning a single 1v1.Well i ain't seeing warriors winning teamfights or reapers winning 1v1 welcome to the pigeonholed club your class is bad at something by design.

The more you talk with thieves or mesmers..the more you realize how much they are affected by a
god complex
, it's like they're out of touch with reality..they're asking for a build that snip-snap around the map at will, engage/disengage equally at will and ofc be able to 1v1 and win against anybody.....really

no. i'm asking to do damage. With every comment i'm bringing yall legit points. You guys are bringing opinions. I want a build that doesn't feel like tickles to a clown. Instead I do 500 damage an autoattack or 5k a Backstab. All while being the easiest profession to kill. I'm not asking for more than other professions. I'm asking for the bare minimum.

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@darren.1064 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:This is really funny cause every thief main is being melodramatic, OU NOWS, thief can't oneshot people anymore like the last kitten patch and get all points. It is not even benched like most professions when they get the nerf bat, it is still meta. It is not like the previous season thieves were forcing people deeper in the bunker role since you couldn't catch up to them and they did hyper damage, thieves had their fun but now "ou my the turntables", everyone is on some type of bunker build, it is not like it wasn't expected.Thief meta just sucks for everyone else.I don't see much whining from warriors since they are kinda meh this patch, not bad, not good but still kinda there doing their thing , but then again rolling core necro or fb would probably be better.Calm your mammaries the current bunker builds would get a shave and thief will be able to stab them to death again, it is not like there aren't viable builds for thief.

name a viable non-cheese build for thief.Well i can't cause the class is kinda cheese by default. Maybe they will make the next elite non cheese.

Okay, now name a viable build for thief that uses cheese. I'll make it easier for you.Here you go
,
. It is really funny cause there are allot of builds for thief on metabatlle and then looked at warrior having 2 which are kinda the same, lol. I think only engi had more builds listed then thief.

I looked at those for 30 seconds and I can tell you right now that none of those builds are doing anything but showcasing my point further. They're simple +1 and decapping builds. None of them are winning a single 1v1.Well i ain't seeing warriors winning teamfights or reapers winning 1v1 welcome to the pigeonholed club your class is bad at something by design.

The more you talk with thieves or mesmers..the more you realize how much they are affected by a
god complex
, it's like they're out of touch with reality..they're asking for a build that snip-snap around the map at will, engage/disengage equally at will and ofc be able to 1v1 and win against anybody.....really

no. i'm asking to do damage. With every comment i'm bringing yall legit points. You guys are bringing opinions. I want a build that doesn't feel like tickles to a clown. Instead I do 500 damage an autoattack or 5k a Backstab. All while being the easiest profession to kill. I'm not asking for more than other professions. I'm asking for the bare minimum.

@Vancho.8750 said:This is really funny cause every thief main is being melodramatic, OU NOWS, thief can't oneshot people anymore like the last kitten patch and get all points. It is not even benched like most professions when they get the nerf bat, it is still meta. It is not like the previous season thieves were forcing people deeper in the bunker role since you couldn't catch up to them and they did hyper damage, thieves had their fun but now "ou my the turntables", everyone is on some type of bunker build, it is not like it wasn't expected.Thief meta just sucks for everyone else.I don't see much whining from warriors since they are kinda meh this patch, not bad, not good but still kinda there doing their thing , but then again rolling core necro or fb would probably be better.Calm your mammaries the current bunker builds would get a shave and thief will be able to stab them to death again, it is not like there aren't viable builds for thief.

name a viable non-cheese build for thief.Well i can't cause the class is kinda cheese by default. Maybe they will make the next elite non cheese.

Okay, now name a viable build for thief that uses cheese. I'll make it easier for you.Here you go
,
. It is really funny cause there are allot of builds for thief on metabatlle and then looked at warrior having 2 which are kinda the same, lol. I think only engi had more builds listed then thief.

I looked at those for 30 seconds and I can tell you right now that none of those builds are doing anything but showcasing my point further. They're simple +1 and decapping builds. None of them are winning a single 1v1.Well i ain't seeing warriors winning teamfights or reapers winning 1v1 welcome to the pigeonholed club your class is bad at something by design.

The more you talk with thieves or mesmers..the more you realize how much they are affected by a
god complex
, it's like they're out of touch with reality..they're asking for a build that snip-snap around the map at will, engage/disengage equally at will and ofc be able to 1v1 and win against anybody.....reallyI think i said something along these lines somewhere in the post, mostly to fuck with some guy for some forum pvp. But the build you play kinda tells something about you as a person, and when you think about it thief and mesmer by design have unfair advantage.It also correlates usually to that the chat raggers in pvp are thieves, mesmers or the FOTM.
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@Vancho.8750 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:This is really funny cause every thief main is being melodramatic, OU NOWS, thief can't oneshot people anymore like the last kitten patch and get all points. It is not even benched like most professions when they get the nerf bat, it is still meta. It is not like the previous season thieves were forcing people deeper in the bunker role since you couldn't catch up to them and they did hyper damage, thieves had their fun but now "ou my the turntables", everyone is on some type of bunker build, it is not like it wasn't expected.Thief meta just sucks for everyone else.I don't see much whining from warriors since they are kinda meh this patch, not bad, not good but still kinda there doing their thing , but then again rolling core necro or fb would probably be better.Calm your mammaries the current bunker builds would get a shave and thief will be able to stab them to death again, it is not like there aren't viable builds for thief.

name a viable non-cheese build for thief.Well i can't cause the class is kinda cheese by default. Maybe they will make the next elite non cheese.

Okay, now name a viable build for thief that uses cheese. I'll make it easier for you.Here you go
,
. It is really funny cause there are allot of builds for thief on metabatlle and then looked at warrior having 2 which are kinda the same, lol. I think only engi had more builds listed then thief.

I looked at those for 30 seconds and I can tell you right now that none of those builds are doing anything but showcasing my point further. They're simple +1 and decapping builds. None of them are winning a single 1v1.Well i ain't seeing warriors winning teamfights or reapers winning 1v1 welcome to the pigeonholed club your class is bad at something by design.

The more you talk with thieves or mesmers..the more you realize how much they are affected by a
god complex
, it's like they're out of touch with reality..they're asking for a build that snip-snap around the map at will, engage/disengage equally at will and ofc be able to 1v1 and win against anybody.....really

no. i'm asking to do damage. With every comment i'm bringing yall legit points. You guys are bringing opinions. I want a build that doesn't feel like tickles to a clown. Instead I do 500 damage an autoattack or 5k a Backstab. All while being the easiest profession to kill. I'm not asking for more than other professions. I'm asking for the bare minimum.

@Vancho.8750 said:This is really funny cause every thief main is being melodramatic, OU NOWS, thief can't oneshot people anymore like the last kitten patch and get all points. It is not even benched like most professions when they get the nerf bat, it is still meta. It is not like the previous season thieves were forcing people deeper in the bunker role since you couldn't catch up to them and they did hyper damage, thieves had their fun but now "ou my the turntables", everyone is on some type of bunker build, it is not like it wasn't expected.Thief meta just sucks for everyone else.I don't see much whining from warriors since they are kinda meh this patch, not bad, not good but still kinda there doing their thing , but then again rolling core necro or fb would probably be better.Calm your mammaries the current bunker builds would get a shave and thief will be able to stab them to death again, it is not like there aren't viable builds for thief.

name a viable non-cheese build for thief.Well i can't cause the class is kinda cheese by default. Maybe they will make the next elite non cheese.

Okay, now name a viable build for thief that uses cheese. I'll make it easier for you.Here you go
,
. It is really funny cause there are allot of builds for thief on metabatlle and then looked at warrior having 2 which are kinda the same, lol. I think only engi had more builds listed then thief.

I looked at those for 30 seconds and I can tell you right now that none of those builds are doing anything but showcasing my point further. They're simple +1 and decapping builds. None of them are winning a single 1v1.Well i ain't seeing warriors winning teamfights or reapers winning 1v1 welcome to the pigeonholed club your class is bad at something by design.

The more you talk with thieves or mesmers..the more you realize how much they are affected by a
god complex
, it's like they're out of touch with reality..they're asking for a build that snip-snap around the map at will, engage/disengage equally at will and ofc be able to 1v1 and win against anybody.....reallyI think i said something along these lines somewhere in the post, mostly to kitten with some guy for some forum pvp. But the build you play kinda tells something about you as a person, and when you think about it thief and mesmer by design have unfair advantage.It also correlates usually to that the chat raggers in pvp are thieves, mesmers or the FOTM.

And what unfair advantage do thieves have?

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@darren.1064 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:This is really funny cause every thief main is being melodramatic, OU NOWS, thief can't oneshot people anymore like the last kitten patch and get all points. It is not even benched like most professions when they get the nerf bat, it is still meta. It is not like the previous season thieves were forcing people deeper in the bunker role since you couldn't catch up to them and they did hyper damage, thieves had their fun but now "ou my the turntables", everyone is on some type of bunker build, it is not like it wasn't expected.Thief meta just sucks for everyone else.I don't see much whining from warriors since they are kinda meh this patch, not bad, not good but still kinda there doing their thing , but then again rolling core necro or fb would probably be better.Calm your mammaries the current bunker builds would get a shave and thief will be able to stab them to death again, it is not like there aren't viable builds for thief.

name a viable non-cheese build for thief.Well i can't cause the class is kinda cheese by default. Maybe they will make the next elite non cheese.

Okay, now name a viable build for thief that uses cheese. I'll make it easier for you.Here you go
,
. It is really funny cause there are allot of builds for thief on metabatlle and then looked at warrior having 2 which are kinda the same, lol. I think only engi had more builds listed then thief.

I looked at those for 30 seconds and I can tell you right now that none of those builds are doing anything but showcasing my point further. They're simple +1 and decapping builds. None of them are winning a single 1v1.Well i ain't seeing warriors winning teamfights or reapers winning 1v1 welcome to the pigeonholed club your class is bad at something by design.

The more you talk with thieves or mesmers..the more you realize how much they are affected by a
god complex
, it's like they're out of touch with reality..they're asking for a build that snip-snap around the map at will, engage/disengage equally at will and ofc be able to 1v1 and win against anybody.....really

no. i'm asking to do damage. With every comment i'm bringing yall legit points. You guys are bringing opinions. I want a build that doesn't feel like tickles to a clown. Instead I do 500 damage an autoattack or 5k a Backstab. All while being the easiest profession to kill. I'm not asking for more than other professions. I'm asking for the bare minimum.

@Vancho.8750 said:This is really funny cause every thief main is being melodramatic, OU NOWS, thief can't oneshot people anymore like the last kitten patch and get all points. It is not even benched like most professions when they get the nerf bat, it is still meta. It is not like the previous season thieves were forcing people deeper in the bunker role since you couldn't catch up to them and they did hyper damage, thieves had their fun but now "ou my the turntables", everyone is on some type of bunker build, it is not like it wasn't expected.Thief meta just sucks for everyone else.I don't see much whining from warriors since they are kinda meh this patch, not bad, not good but still kinda there doing their thing , but then again rolling core necro or fb would probably be better.Calm your mammaries the current bunker builds would get a shave and thief will be able to stab them to death again, it is not like there aren't viable builds for thief.

name a viable non-cheese build for thief.Well i can't cause the class is kinda cheese by default. Maybe they will make the next elite non cheese.

Okay, now name a viable build for thief that uses cheese. I'll make it easier for you.Here you go
,
. It is really funny cause there are allot of builds for thief on metabatlle and then looked at warrior having 2 which are kinda the same, lol. I think only engi had more builds listed then thief.

I looked at those for 30 seconds and I can tell you right now that none of those builds are doing anything but showcasing my point further. They're simple +1 and decapping builds. None of them are winning a single 1v1.Well i ain't seeing warriors winning teamfights or reapers winning 1v1 welcome to the pigeonholed club your class is bad at something by design.

The more you talk with thieves or mesmers..the more you realize how much they are affected by a
god complex
, it's like they're out of touch with reality..they're asking for a build that snip-snap around the map at will, engage/disengage equally at will and ofc be able to 1v1 and win against anybody.....reallyI think i said something along these lines somewhere in the post, mostly to kitten with some guy for some forum pvp. But the build you play kinda tells something about you as a person, and when you think about it thief and mesmer by design have unfair advantage.It also correlates usually to that the chat raggers in pvp are thieves, mesmers or the FOTM.

And what unfair advantage do thieves have?Mobility, stealth, instant teleport attacks and more dodges then everyone else, and the ability to disengage whenever, most of the attacks are not well telegraphed or telegraphed at all and when they are they can be covered with range or stealth. If thief has has damage it dictates that there wouldn't not be any other glassier builds same issue that scourge had where you couldn't play any other teamfight builds. If thief can 1v1 kill people and run fast around the map it forces everyone to build just for that one person reducing the viable builds in the game. No one likes to play the tune of one person.
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@darren.1064 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:This is really funny cause every thief main is being melodramatic, OU NOWS, thief can't oneshot people anymore like the last kitten patch and get all points. It is not even benched like most professions when they get the nerf bat, it is still meta. It is not like the previous season thieves were forcing people deeper in the bunker role since you couldn't catch up to them and they did hyper damage, thieves had their fun but now "ou my the turntables", everyone is on some type of bunker build, it is not like it wasn't expected.Thief meta just sucks for everyone else.I don't see much whining from warriors since they are kinda meh this patch, not bad, not good but still kinda there doing their thing , but then again rolling core necro or fb would probably be better.Calm your mammaries the current bunker builds would get a shave and thief will be able to stab them to death again, it is not like there aren't viable builds for thief.

name a viable non-cheese build for thief.Well i can't cause the class is kinda cheese by default. Maybe they will make the next elite non cheese.

Okay, now name a viable build for thief that uses cheese. I'll make it easier for you.Here you go
,
. It is really funny cause there are allot of builds for thief on metabatlle and then looked at warrior having 2 which are kinda the same, lol. I think only engi had more builds listed then thief.

I looked at those for 30 seconds and I can tell you right now that none of those builds are doing anything but showcasing my point further. They're simple +1 and decapping builds. None of them are winning a single 1v1.Well i ain't seeing warriors winning teamfights or reapers winning 1v1 welcome to the pigeonholed club your class is bad at something by design.

The more you talk with thieves or mesmers..the more you realize how much they are affected by a
god complex
, it's like they're out of touch with reality..they're asking for a build that snip-snap around the map at will, engage/disengage equally at will and ofc be able to 1v1 and win against anybody.....really

no. i'm asking to do damage. With every comment i'm bringing yall legit points. You guys are bringing opinions. I want a build that doesn't feel like tickles to a clown. Instead I do 500 damage an autoattack or 5k a Backstab. All while being the easiest profession to kill. I'm not asking for more than other professions. I'm asking for the bare minimum.

You want to do dmg or duel? Nobody has ever asked for thief to be limited to a +1 decapper...this is something you guys forced upon yourself by placing wrong expectations on the game. You cannot have and I repeat Cannot have a build capable of burst dmg, duelling and mobility all at the same time.....it's absurd.

If you want to burst , deal like 50% of the enemy HP to start with...fine by me..but that build must have close to zero sustain as payment for that level of dmgIf you want to duel, have the ability to sustain through duels, using whichever mechanic..fine by me but that build won't have godly burst as a token for the sustain

I don't care how many ninja movies you guys watched...this is a MMO, not a RPG with multiplayer, everybody entitled to have fun so things..."thief is supposed to be best 1v1" like hell....it's the player who makes the best 1vs1 not the name of the class

Basically or you burst or you duel! If no.....sorry can I duel also with a bunker tempest ? I am an elementalist and I am supposed to burn you to a crisp from 1500 range.......see how silly is it?

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I love how thief died JUST AFTER holosmith (counters thieves) became S tier and mirages (countered by thieves) got less common lmao

@"darren.1064" said:

Well i ain't seeing warriors winning teamfights or reapers winning 1v1 welcome to the pigeonholed club your class is bad at something by design.So.... You agree that warriors, reapers and thieves all need buffs? great. Therefore you agree with my post. You would know that if you actually read it.

I think you need to read this

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@Vancho.8750 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:This is really funny cause every thief main is being melodramatic, OU NOWS, thief can't oneshot people anymore like the last kitten patch and get all points. It is not even benched like most professions when they get the nerf bat, it is still meta. It is not like the previous season thieves were forcing people deeper in the bunker role since you couldn't catch up to them and they did hyper damage, thieves had their fun but now "ou my the turntables", everyone is on some type of bunker build, it is not like it wasn't expected.Thief meta just sucks for everyone else.I don't see much whining from warriors since they are kinda meh this patch, not bad, not good but still kinda there doing their thing , but then again rolling core necro or fb would probably be better.Calm your mammaries the current bunker builds would get a shave and thief will be able to stab them to death again, it is not like there aren't viable builds for thief.

name a viable non-cheese build for thief.Well i can't cause the class is kinda cheese by default. Maybe they will make the next elite non cheese.

Okay, now name a viable build for thief that uses cheese. I'll make it easier for you.Here you go
,
. It is really funny cause there are allot of builds for thief on metabatlle and then looked at warrior having 2 which are kinda the same, lol. I think only engi had more builds listed then thief.

I looked at those for 30 seconds and I can tell you right now that none of those builds are doing anything but showcasing my point further. They're simple +1 and decapping builds. None of them are winning a single 1v1.Well i ain't seeing warriors winning teamfights or reapers winning 1v1 welcome to the pigeonholed club your class is bad at something by design.

The more you talk with thieves or mesmers..the more you realize how much they are affected by a
god complex
, it's like they're out of touch with reality..they're asking for a build that snip-snap around the map at will, engage/disengage equally at will and ofc be able to 1v1 and win against anybody.....really

no. i'm asking to do damage. With every comment i'm bringing yall legit points. You guys are bringing opinions. I want a build that doesn't feel like tickles to a clown. Instead I do 500 damage an autoattack or 5k a Backstab. All while being the easiest profession to kill. I'm not asking for more than other professions. I'm asking for the bare minimum.

@Vancho.8750 said:This is really funny cause every thief main is being melodramatic, OU NOWS, thief can't oneshot people anymore like the last kitten patch and get all points. It is not even benched like most professions when they get the nerf bat, it is still meta. It is not like the previous season thieves were forcing people deeper in the bunker role since you couldn't catch up to them and they did hyper damage, thieves had their fun but now "ou my the turntables", everyone is on some type of bunker build, it is not like it wasn't expected.Thief meta just sucks for everyone else.I don't see much whining from warriors since they are kinda meh this patch, not bad, not good but still kinda there doing their thing , but then again rolling core necro or fb would probably be better.Calm your mammaries the current bunker builds would get a shave and thief will be able to stab them to death again, it is not like there aren't viable builds for thief.

name a viable non-cheese build for thief.Well i can't cause the class is kinda cheese by default. Maybe they will make the next elite non cheese.

Okay, now name a viable build for thief that uses cheese. I'll make it easier for you.Here you go
,
. It is really funny cause there are allot of builds for thief on metabatlle and then looked at warrior having 2 which are kinda the same, lol. I think only engi had more builds listed then thief.

I looked at those for 30 seconds and I can tell you right now that none of those builds are doing anything but showcasing my point further. They're simple +1 and decapping builds. None of them are winning a single 1v1.Well i ain't seeing warriors winning teamfights or reapers winning 1v1 welcome to the pigeonholed club your class is bad at something by design.

The more you talk with thieves or mesmers..the more you realize how much they are affected by a
god complex
, it's like they're out of touch with reality..they're asking for a build that snip-snap around the map at will, engage/disengage equally at will and ofc be able to 1v1 and win against anybody.....reallyI think i said something along these lines somewhere in the post, mostly to kitten with some guy for some forum pvp. But the build you play kinda tells something about you as a person, and when you think about it thief and mesmer by design have unfair advantage.It also correlates usually to that the chat raggers in pvp are thieves, mesmers or the FOTM.

And what unfair advantage do thieves have?Mobility, stealth, instant teleport attacks and more dodges then everyone else, and the ability to disengage whenever, most of the attacks are not well telegraphed or telegraphed at all and when they are they can be covered with range or stealth. If thief has has damage it dictates that there wouldn't not be any other glassier builds same issue that scourge had where you couldn't play any other teamfight builds. If thief can 1v1 kill people and run fast around the map it forces everyone to build just for that one person reducing the viable builds in the game. No one likes to play the tune of one person.

This will be my last comment because i'm tired of repeating what's already been covered. Stealth and mobility have already been touched upon by the original post by myself and other commentators multiple times so feel free to go back and read that. I will however touch upon dodges. A thief shares the lowest health pool along with two other professions: Guardian and Elementalist. A common theme amongst all three professions is the ability to blind, block, evade or CC. Guardian has several ways to gain aegis in a fight. Elementalist has lightning auras that make it impervious to all melee damage. Both classes also have access to a multitude of skills that allow them to dodge attacks. Weaver is the best example of this where I can think of four skills off the top of my head that have the sole purpose of dodging attacks. Sword #2 on Earth, Water #2 on the same set. The utility can be used twice. Thats four evades not even taking into consideration the fact that they can also dodge two extra times from endurance. 6 dodges overall but there is no complaints about the excessive amount of dodges and mobility that elementalists have as they are a profession that also has multiple shadowsteps and perma-swiftness to accompany these shadowsteps. Guardian has the heaviest armor, skills that allow it to dodge, 2 dodges from endurance, invulnerability skills, blind, CCs, and several skills that give it aegis. This is just base guardian. Not to mention all of the stuff DH and FB can do with their support and/or point control. What can a thief do? dodge 3 times and go into stealth. Thief has one skill that perma-blinds and blocks projectiles (for only 5? seconds) that I don't even like and a single skill that functions as a block. Aside from that the class has to rely on initiative to keep other professions from tearing through their medium armor that also has the lowest health pool if i need to remind you again. So yes thief can move quickly. They're the highest risk, highest reward profession there is. However right now there is no reward, simply risk. Lastly, if a profession has the highest skill ceiling and floor. Well it used to have both; now it just has one. If a profession has both, then yes they should definitely be able to turn a 5v5 game around. Should the hardest profession to play have no reward for playing and mastering it? It's not like thief streamers are walking around everywhere. It takes time-- literal months to get to the top tiers of thief gameplay. Why should they settle for less because you guys can't figure out some counterplay that it right there across multiple different professions.

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:This is really funny cause every thief main is being melodramatic, OU NOWS, thief can't oneshot people anymore like the last kitten patch and get all points. It is not even benched like most professions when they get the nerf bat, it is still meta. It is not like the previous season thieves were forcing people deeper in the bunker role since you couldn't catch up to them and they did hyper damage, thieves had their fun but now "ou my the turntables", everyone is on some type of bunker build, it is not like it wasn't expected.Thief meta just sucks for everyone else.I don't see much whining from warriors since they are kinda meh this patch, not bad, not good but still kinda there doing their thing , but then again rolling core necro or fb would probably be better.Calm your mammaries the current bunker builds would get a shave and thief will be able to stab them to death again, it is not like there aren't viable builds for thief.

name a viable non-cheese build for thief.Well i can't cause the class is kinda cheese by default. Maybe they will make the next elite non cheese.

Okay, now name a viable build for thief that uses cheese. I'll make it easier for you.Here you go
,
. It is really funny cause there are allot of builds for thief on metabatlle and then looked at warrior having 2 which are kinda the same, lol. I think only engi had more builds listed then thief.

I looked at those for 30 seconds and I can tell you right now that none of those builds are doing anything but showcasing my point further. They're simple +1 and decapping builds. None of them are winning a single 1v1.Well i ain't seeing warriors winning teamfights or reapers winning 1v1 welcome to the pigeonholed club your class is bad at something by design.

The more you talk with thieves or mesmers..the more you realize how much they are affected by a
god complex
, it's like they're out of touch with reality..they're asking for a build that snip-snap around the map at will, engage/disengage equally at will and ofc be able to 1v1 and win against anybody.....really

no. i'm asking to do damage. With every comment i'm bringing yall legit points. You guys are bringing opinions. I want a build that doesn't feel like tickles to a clown. Instead I do 500 damage an autoattack or 5k a Backstab. All while being the easiest profession to kill. I'm not asking for more than other professions. I'm asking for the bare minimum.

You want to do dmg or duel? Nobody has ever asked for thief to be limited to a +1 decapper...this is something you guys forced upon yourself by placing wrong expectations on the game.
You cannot have and I repeat Cannot
have a build capable of burst dmg, duelling and mobility all at the same time.....it's absurd.

If you want to burst , deal like 50% of the enemy HP to start with...fine by me..but that build must have close to zero sustain as payment for that level of dmgIf you want to duel, have the ability to sustain through duels, using whichever mechanic..fine by me but that build won't have godly burst as a token for the sustain

I don't care how many ninja movies you guys watched...this is a MMO, not a RPG with multiplayer, everybody entitled to have fun so things..."thief is supposed to be best 1v1" like hell....
it's the player who makes the best 1vs1 not the name of the class

Basically or you burst or you duel! If no.....sorry can I duel also with a bunker tempest ? I am an elementalist and I am supposed to burn you to a crisp from 1500 range.......see how silly is it?

do you actually have a brain?

Are you blind?...I can run 4-5 professions and memorize dozen of playstyles based on different builds and options ...where you can barely play a single profession..barely like 1-2 builds

Let me tell you one last thing ...the kind of thief you want...will never exist, any form of thief that will even get close to it will be bombed non stop by nerf threads. Do burst dmg or duel no both...learn to adapt or just leave

lol "a thief build that used to exist won't exist BeCauSe PeoPlE wIlL MaKe tHrEaDs WanTinG iT tO gEt nErFeD." Well you all should go better players then to deal with a class with 11,645 health and one block. One block across core and two elite specializations.

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