Hello is this good build?

ChauvyPigBreaker.8752 · April 7, 2020

Is this build good after the new patch I am new and trying to learn.

Thank you for your time :)

DeceiverX.8361 · April 7, 2020

No. D/D + D/P is a recipe for disaster and totally pointless and redundant. Berserker stats in WvW is stupid and asking to get killed as soon as the player fights with a brain or doesn't camp towers and gank/abuse pulls. Damage is reduced harshly and even the one-shot builds are barely if at all functional since nobody's playing glassy power.

The person in the video isn't a D/D player. They're a stealth/gank player swapping into D/D to nuke people for montage purposes. You can tell by the total absence of use of DB and DDagger and their unwillingness to actually fight.

And running HiS + SR + Wire?... Yikes. Even in the current meta without huge stability uptime. Swap D/P and shadow shot if they run. Or do the smart thing and play S/x alternate or even shortbow SA. Trickster+Withdraw and if you need cleanses, grab on-swap sigils or go SoA over ASignet because it was fixed/nerfed. IS, RFI, etc. are all substantially better skills to actually play D/D on. The only actually good choice here is Shadowstep, which is basically universal to all top-tier thief builds.

The gameplay in the video was cringey enough... the entire thing was ganking and stacking stealth, cheeky pulls, etc. Bad build to match a bad player.The audio I had to mute because it sounds like a ****ing eight year old on helium.

If you insist on playing D/D Core Burst, play Marauder or Valkyrie+Zerk&Valk Trinkets split with Marauder, then take DA/CS/Tr traits with HK in CS to get backstab to auto-crit and ToTC to get fury on Steal. Dagger kit should have Sigils of Accuracy and Cleansing, alternate will have bloodlust + cleansing or bloodlust + accuracy if you think you have enough and are playing S/x with the cleanses on IReturn.

Weapon alternate kit should be S/D for engage assist and dealing with block-heavy targets. Basic engage combo looks like (targeted IStrike/Skill 2)+Steal -> Swap D/D OOC Mid-animation-> Fight -> Swap S/D to clean up/class-specific combat -> disengage IReturn (S/D#2part2) just before it expires and repeat or do as necessary to make it work. Abuse IR and relevant mobility. D/D shouldn't be hard-camped and you'll need S/D for harder matchups.

Assassin's Signet is junk now. Withdraw heal + Shadowstep + RFI + Signet of Agility. Your focus shouldn't be on stealth because CnD is too easy to counterplay by good opponents and if you get blinded by any source you're screwed post-engage. Weapon skill evasion and smart cleansing and dodging helps get around this.

Practice hard and work to perfect various forms of animation cancelling and negate wasted frames. Learn when DB's evade frames are and when they're not (it's not a dodge on the full animation). Learn every enemy skill that you need to dodge. You'll get a proper hang of it a few hundred hours in but expect to die constantly because D/D is and always has been (save launch) weak AF in terms of the PvP modes.

babazhook.6805 · April 11, 2020

I find scorpion wire much more usable then suggested especially if paired with an on interrupt type sigil such as draining or absorption. It now uses the ammo system and with trickster traited you can get a real low cooldown on this. If you link with absorption you can use it to rip boons , with draining you get significant heals for sustain+added damage (it like a mini mug)

2 uses in 16 seconds is not all that bad in spite of its known issues.

Just assume you in a d/p set and like to use headshot now and then for that interrupt. Head shot is 4 INI. If you use SW twice in 16 seconds thats 8 ini saved over using headshot. That is more save INI then you gain back from RFI (not to denigrate RFI as that a very good skill). If you swap to your alternate weapons, it nice to know that SW can act as an interrupt even if there none in that set.

DeceiverX.8361 · April 11, 2020

@babazhook.6805 said:I find scorpion wire much more usable then suggested especially if paired with an on interrupt type sigil such as draining or absorption. It now uses the ammo system and with trickster traited you can get a real low cooldown on this. If you link with absorption you can use it to rip boons , with draining you get significant heals for sustain+added damage (it like a mini mug)
2 uses in 16 seconds is not all that bad in spite of its known issues.
Just assume you in a d/p set and like to use headshot now and then for that interrupt. Head shot is 4 INI. If you use SW twice in 16 seconds thats 8 ini saved over using headshot. That is more save INI then you gain back from RFI (not to denigrate RFI as that a very good skill). If you swap to your alternate weapons, it nice to know that SW can act as an interrupt even if there none in that set.

Yeah but you're wasting a utility slot for 4 initiative in comparison on D/D of all things, where those utility skills are more important than anything consider the kit lacks engage and disengage which is only available either gated by a swap cooldown into S/x or utility skills, and unlike headshot, also assumes you want to always be in melee range at the time of interruption or that the enemy won't stunbreak or pop a defensive cooldown when being pulled. SWire is also just slower in terms of the animation, so a misuse or random opponent stability means being penalized further than HShot.

It's kind of like taking a Sigil of Intelligence to get D/D swaps for backstab. Like yeah it works, but its use case is too low to justify. The reality is x/D isn't interrupting much at all except into only maybe guardian and necromancer, assuming the guard doesn't have stability and the necro isn't a reaper playing with support. Better to just take raw damage or defensive sigils.

You can just take RFI and get the initiative + stunbreak/dodge when you really need it, which is a lot more crucial to D/D since it's melee without a disengage and has a rather poor and expensive evade on DB given its cast time and animation.

Sure there's synergy, just the kit is too utility-skill-intensive to justify it for anything other than picking off and pulling in targets when in larger groups. I did use SWire on my interrupt Staff+X/P Daredevil and it worked well in duels, but that's also because the kit just has so much mobility and disengage with the sustain from playing both SA and Acro on top of Daredevil as well.

babazhook.6805 · April 11, 2020

@DeceiverX.8361 said:
@babazhook.6805 said:I find scorpion wire much more usable then suggested especially if paired with an on interrupt type sigil such as draining or absorption. It now uses the ammo system and with trickster traited you can get a real low cooldown on this. If you link with absorption you can use it to rip boons , with draining you get significant heals for sustain+added damage (it like a mini mug)
2 uses in 16 seconds is not all that bad in spite of its known issues.
Just assume you in a d/p set and like to use headshot now and then for that interrupt. Head shot is 4 INI. If you use SW twice in 16 seconds thats 8 ini saved over using headshot. That is more save INI then you gain back from RFI (not to denigrate RFI as that a very good skill). If you swap to your alternate weapons, it nice to know that SW can act as an interrupt even if there none in that set.

Yeah but you're wasting a utility slot for 4 initiative in comparison on D/D of all things, where those utility skills are more important than anything consider the kit lacks engage and disengage which is only available either gated by a swap cooldown into S/x or utility skills, and unlike headshot, also assumes you want to always be in melee range at the time of interruption or that the enemy won't stunbreak or pop a defensive cooldown when being pulled. SWire is also just slower in terms of the animation, so a misuse or random opponent stability means being penalized further than HShot.

It's kind of like taking a Sigil of Intelligence to get D/D swaps for backstab. Like yeah it works, but its use case is too low to justify. The reality is x/D isn't interrupting much at all except into only maybe guardian and necromancer, assuming the guard doesn't have stability and the necro isn't a reaper playing with support. Better to just take raw damage or defensive sigils.

You can just take RFI and get the initiative + stunbreak/dodge when you really need it, which is a lot more crucial to D/D since it's melee without a disengage and has a rather poor and expensive evade on DB given its cast time and animation.

Sure there's synergy, just the kit is too utility-skill-intensive to justify it for anything other than picking off and pulling in targets when in larger groups. I did use SWire on my interrupt Staff+X/P Daredevil and it worked well in duels, but that's also because the kit just has so much mobility and disengage with the sustain from playing both SA and Acro on top of Daredevil as well.

Well one issue I find since changes is boon rip hurt with the nerfs to Bountiful theft and rending shade. At the same time there really not a lot of loss to the ability to apply boons. D/d has no natural interrupts and the set suffers when trying to rip boons. RFI also saw a significant increase to the Cooldown making it less usable then it once was. If you are going trickster to lower that ICD you are not going to have any boon rip whatsoever. With lowered damage in the D/d power set , enemies that can get protection , regen might swiftness and the like up at will are going to be very hard to deal with unless you can clean out some of those boons. When I tried D/D myself I was finding the lack of boon theft very noticeable and I tried a number of things to try and address that (nullification etc) but found they just did not do enough in that respect where absorption did. A BT followed by SW can rip 5 boons and the second SW use ready to rip another three.

Now I actually liked RFI as much for the Immob cleanse as anything as being Imobbed really hurts the d/d build but if you trait withdraw you still get that and if you in daredevil you get it on dodge as well. RFI with daredevil just duplicates abilities you already have. Withdraw+RFI +Unhindered combat is overkill on all but the INI add.

Now the build linked is apparently core and RFI is likely more relevant there but you are still getting issues with the ability to get past boons.

DeceiverX.8361 · April 12, 2020

Dealing with enemy sustain is innate to D/D and why the kit is downright weak and always has been. SWire doesn't usually interrupt casts for protection and thus is only useful when trying to cover very specific timings on enemy stability or weaknesses otherwise. Worth noting that SWire also has a fair share of issues into multiple foes and various summon-based matchups like mesmer, ranger, and reflect-oriented builds, as you'll CC/pull yourself.

Dealing with boons ais just a facet of D/D itself that needs to be played around, and is generally a significant part of the skill involved with winning more challenging matchups with the kit. It never has priority, and the better the opponent, the more reactive and well-played it needs to be since that priority continues to drop pretty much into mathematically-unwinnable territory. Even against boonless opponents, you're often still on the backfoot in terms of damage, now more than ever, and this is why initiative and evasion are so substantive when pacing its damage, and why it favors HK with more vitality in the build than D/P and other weapon sets. Daredevil isn't typically good for the power build because losing DA or CS defeats the purpose of playing a burst-oriented weapon setup in the first place, and operating on multiple potent skills for Steal to reset with reworked Improv to reset (since most of D/D operates around steal for its bursts) really creates better synergy each combo. I understand the rationale you're presenting, but I don't think this works outside of anything but a predetermined duel with only a handful of classes, and has a lot less synergy with D/D than other options in most other scenarios where the benefits of RFI or SoA are just stronger choices.

Immob is also not as big a concern as you think, either, since DB can be cast while immobed, and the initiative can be fixed by RFI as well. Stuns are a way bigger problem which is why the stunbreak is so helpful, and RFI is the superior trick when considering D/D's weak points, especially since S/x IS/IR swap combo which D/D heavily depends on also brings innate condition cleansing can can be casted during immob if the skills are available. It's not uncommon for me to intentionally eat a short, low-damage immob as to give my opponents the false sense of security to combo me down, and then dodge their major big-tell skill(s) with DB to force their cooldowns, use regular evades during their last-ditch efforts to generate the burst to kill me, and then come out ahead on available damage or reset with IR just enough to heal a bit and recover some initiative and re-engage when their potent cooldowns still tick.

It's actually one of the particular problems the kit has into warrior, as its skills are all too low cooldown to punish and warrior's mobility too high relative to D/D to leverage the utility S/D brings and the damage on D/D not being enough to place meaningful burst unless they play full glass.

I think Daredevil is generally counter-productive because you often have to dodge after landing CnD since people will try to AoE CC or burst/control the area immediately in melee range, and UC creates too much of a gap distance-wise so the enemy can just walk out of the backstab unless you burn the second dodge, meaning you end up wasting pretty much all the benefits of playing DrD. And obviously Bound and LT self-reveal preventing the backstab (and the point of the kit) from working.

D/D has a very, very narrow scope of abilities and options that actually work well with it because the weapon skills themselves are not cohesive and do not offer enough power to play the kit in isolation.

Even though I have my entire kit set up for D/D and play it very well as to leverage every skill on the bar, I still probably spend about 75% of the fights in S/D to bide time until the CnD+Bbackstab burst combo is safely available and my health high enough to take a few hits. It's just how D/D is and always will be until DB and Dagger are reworked into more usable utility effects like how Shadow Shot and Headshot function.

Jugglemonkey.8741 · April 12, 2020

I ran into a D/D core thief last night, I play quite tanky for a thief on both power and condi so his opening burst wasn't taking me below 50%, making it hard for him to capitalise on the opening enough to guarantee a win. He died pretty easily to condi (no surprises, condi in general is too strong atm), and also became an easy kill on power once I got some distance and started focussing on immob. In fact, only time he won was when he hit me with a target painter before engaging, and even then it took him more than a couple of tries to get the damage in. So while he didn't play badly at all, he also didn't have the flexibility in his build to kill me easily if the opening burst didn't do enough damage. He was running smoke screen, shadow step and infiltrator's signet, and I'm pretty sure he was he was DA trick SA although I wasn't paying enough attention to notice if he had hidden killer.

babazhook.6805 · April 12, 2020

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:I ran into a D/D core thief last night, I play quite tanky for a thief on both power and condi so his opening burst wasn't taking me below 50%, making it hard for him to capitalise on the opening enough to guarantee a win. He died pretty easily to condi (no surprises, condi in general is too strong atm), and also became an easy kill on power once I got some distance and started focussing on immob. In fact, only time he won was when he hit me with a target painter before engaging, and even then it took him more than a couple of tries to get the damage in. So while he didn't play badly at all, he also didn't have the flexibility in his build to kill me easily if the opening burst didn't do enough damage. He was running smoke screen, shadow step and infiltrator's signet, and I'm pretty sure he was he was DA trick SA although I wasn't paying enough attention to notice if he had hidden killer.

D/D core has little in the way of engage potential which another reason IF going that route SW has to be considered. If the enemy breaks off or fights at range there little the d/d player can do outside the steal to close the gap. When on d/d power and the enemy in trouble you need to finish them quick and if all they need to is open range to ensure that does not happen there no gap closer outside the steal. SW plus steal is three closers (WHEN SW works) and infiltrators a fourth.

Now I do not play a d/d power build with that as my main weapon set but I do play d/d condition where I am in d/d all the time and gap closing is the number one issue. If facing a Ranger as example you can be killed before you even get in range of them. This will happen even if you in a dire build with higher toughness and vitality then a typical power build.

If in power and core you have less stealth, less dodges and evades , one port to as utility that can be used (infiltrators) and that about it . It far to easy to counter via range and mobility and especially since their burst so much weaker now. D/D power used to be able to rely on an opening burst to get that upper hand but that potential is much less now. RFI/Withdraw are generally gap openers. The problem with d/d core power is as not so much as opening a gap as it is closing one. When you use a withdraw you now have to close that gap again and are open to attacks when you do.

kash.9213 · April 12, 2020

@babazhook.6805 said:
@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:I ran into a D/D core thief last night, I play quite tanky for a thief on both power and condi so his opening burst wasn't taking me below 50%, making it hard for him to capitalise on the opening enough to guarantee a win. He died pretty easily to condi (no surprises, condi in general is too strong atm), and also became an easy kill on power once I got some distance and started focussing on immob. In fact, only time he won was when he hit me with a target painter before engaging, and even then it took him more than a couple of tries to get the damage in. So while he didn't play badly at all, he also didn't have the flexibility in his build to kill me easily if the opening burst didn't do enough damage. He was running smoke screen, shadow step and infiltrator's signet, and I'm pretty sure he was he was DA trick SA although I wasn't paying enough attention to notice if he had hidden killer.

D/D core has little in the way of engage potential which another reason IF going that route SW has to be considered. If the enemy breaks off or fights at range there little the d/d player can do outside the steal to close the gap. When on d/d power and the enemy in trouble you need to finish them quick and if all they need to is open range to ensure that does not happen there no gap closer outside the steal. SW plus steal is three closers (WHEN SW works) and infiltrators a fourth.

Now I do not play a d/d power build with that as my main weapon set but I do play d/d condition where I am in d/d all the time and gap closing is the number one issue. If facing a Ranger as example you can be killed before you even get in range of them. This will happen even if you in a dire build with higher toughness and vitality then a typical power build.

If in power and core you have less stealth, less dodges and evades , one port to as utility that can be used (infiltrators) and that about it . It far to easy to counter via range and mobility and especially since their burst so much weaker now. D/D power used to be able to rely on an opening burst to get that upper hand but that potential is much less now. RFI/Withdraw are generally gap openers. The problem with d/d core power is as not so much as opening a gap as it is closing one.

When you use a withdraw you now have to close that gap again and are open to attacks when you do.

I usually de-target for Withdraw and run it behind them. I kind of wish it was ground targeted like Shadowstep, I still take a dive off a wall or cliff once in awhile.

Jugglemonkey.8741 · April 12, 2020

@kash.9213 said:
@babazhook.6805 said:
@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:I ran into a D/D core thief last night, I play quite tanky for a thief on both power and condi so his opening burst wasn't taking me below 50%, making it hard for him to capitalise on the opening enough to guarantee a win. He died pretty easily to condi (no surprises, condi in general is too strong atm), and also became an easy kill on power once I got some distance and started focussing on immob. In fact, only time he won was when he hit me with a target painter before engaging, and even then it took him more than a couple of tries to get the damage in. So while he didn't play badly at all, he also didn't have the flexibility in his build to kill me easily if the opening burst didn't do enough damage. He was running smoke screen, shadow step and infiltrator's signet, and I'm pretty sure he was he was DA trick SA although I wasn't paying enough attention to notice if he had hidden killer.

D/D core has little in the way of engage potential which another reason IF going that route SW has to be considered. If the enemy breaks off or fights at range there little the d/d player can do outside the steal to close the gap. When on d/d power and the enemy in trouble you need to finish them quick and if all they need to is open range to ensure that does not happen there no gap closer outside the steal. SW plus steal is three closers (WHEN SW works) and infiltrators a fourth.

Now I do not play a d/d power build with that as my main weapon set but I do play d/d condition where I am in d/d all the time and gap closing is the number one issue. If facing a Ranger as example you can be killed before you even get in range of them. This will happen even if you in a dire build with higher toughness and vitality then a typical power build.

If in power and core you have less stealth, less dodges and evades , one port to as utility that can be used (infiltrators) and that about it . It far to easy to counter via range and mobility and especially since their burst so much weaker now. D/D power used to be able to rely on an opening burst to get that upper hand but that potential is much less now. RFI/Withdraw are generally gap openers. The problem with d/d core power is as not so much as opening a gap as it is closing one.

When you use a withdraw you now have to close that gap again and are open to attacks when you do.

I usually de-target for Withdraw and run it behind them. I kind of wish it was ground targeted like Shadowstep, I still take a dive off a wall or cliff once in awhile.

Glad I'm not the only one who does that xD

@babazhook.6805 said:
@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:I ran into a D/D core thief last night, I play quite tanky for a thief on both power and condi so his opening burst wasn't taking me below 50%, making it hard for him to capitalise on the opening enough to guarantee a win. He died pretty easily to condi (no surprises, condi in general is too strong atm), and also became an easy kill on power once I got some distance and started focussing on immob. In fact, only time he won was when he hit me with a target painter before engaging, and even then it took him more than a couple of tries to get the damage in. So while he didn't play badly at all, he also didn't have the flexibility in his build to kill me easily if the opening burst didn't do enough damage. He was running smoke screen, shadow step and infiltrator's signet, and I'm pretty sure he was he was DA trick SA although I wasn't paying enough attention to notice if he had hidden killer.

D/D core has little in the way of engage potential which another reason IF going that route SW has to be considered. If the enemy breaks off or fights at range there little the d/d player can do outside the steal to close the gap. When on d/d power and the enemy in trouble you need to finish them quick and if all they need to is open range to ensure that does not happen there no gap closer outside the steal. SW plus steal is three closers (WHEN SW works) and infiltrators a fourth.

Now I do not play a d/d power build with that as my main weapon set but I do play d/d condition where I am in d/d all the time and gap closing is the number one issue. If facing a Ranger as example you can be killed before you even get in range of them. This will happen even if you in a dire build with higher toughness and vitality then a typical power build.

If in power and core you have less stealth, less dodges and evades , one port to as utility that can be used (infiltrators) and that about it . It far to easy to counter via range and mobility and especially since their burst so much weaker now. D/D power used to be able to rely on an opening burst to get that upper hand but that potential is much less now. RFI/Withdraw are generally gap openers. The problem with d/d core power is as not so much as opening a gap as it is closing one. When you use a withdraw you now have to close that gap again and are open to attacks when you do.

Yeah, I can see where you're going with scorpion wire for sure. He was using smoke screen to try to get a stealth advantage, not so useful vs a deadeye as I can easily match the stealth but it would be much more useful vs a soulbeast or something like that. I actually ran D/D on deadeye for a while before the Marked debuff was introduced, I still think deadeye is the best way to play that set atm as it has stealth options that don't involve being in melee range. That said, I don't really think dagger main hand is doing so well at the moment, there's better options if high burst out of nowhere is your aim.

Taobella.6597 · April 12, 2020

well i am glad to see you are having fun :).

babazhook.6805 · April 13, 2020

@kash.9213 said:
@babazhook.6805 said:
@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:I ran into a D/D core thief last night, I play quite tanky for a thief on both power and condi so his opening burst wasn't taking me below 50%, making it hard for him to capitalise on the opening enough to guarantee a win. He died pretty easily to condi (no surprises, condi in general is too strong atm), and also became an easy kill on power once I got some distance and started focussing on immob. In fact, only time he won was when he hit me with a target painter before engaging, and even then it took him more than a couple of tries to get the damage in. So while he didn't play badly at all, he also didn't have the flexibility in his build to kill me easily if the opening burst didn't do enough damage. He was running smoke screen, shadow step and infiltrator's signet, and I'm pretty sure he was he was DA trick SA although I wasn't paying enough attention to notice if he had hidden killer.

D/D core has little in the way of engage potential which another reason IF going that route SW has to be considered. If the enemy breaks off or fights at range there little the d/d player can do outside the steal to close the gap. When on d/d power and the enemy in trouble you need to finish them quick and if all they need to is open range to ensure that does not happen there no gap closer outside the steal. SW plus steal is three closers (WHEN SW works) and infiltrators a fourth.

Now I do not play a d/d power build with that as my main weapon set but I do play d/d condition where I am in d/d all the time and gap closing is the number one issue. If facing a Ranger as example you can be killed before you even get in range of them. This will happen even if you in a dire build with higher toughness and vitality then a typical power build.

If in power and core you have less stealth, less dodges and evades , one port to as utility that can be used (infiltrators) and that about it . It far to easy to counter via range and mobility and especially since their burst so much weaker now. D/D power used to be able to rely on an opening burst to get that upper hand but that potential is much less now. RFI/Withdraw are generally gap openers. The problem with d/d core power is as not so much as opening a gap as it is closing one.

When you use a withdraw you now have to close that gap again and are open to attacks when you do.

I usually de-target for Withdraw and run it behind them. I kind of wish it was ground targeted like Shadowstep, I still take a dive off a wall or cliff once in awhile.

With the old traps and trappers runes I used to withdraw INto the target. That would drop a trap on top of them.

kash.9213 · April 13, 2020

@babazhook.6805 said:
@kash.9213 said:
@babazhook.6805 said:
@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:I ran into a D/D core thief last night, I play quite tanky for a thief on both power and condi so his opening burst wasn't taking me below 50%, making it hard for him to capitalise on the opening enough to guarantee a win. He died pretty easily to condi (no surprises, condi in general is too strong atm), and also became an easy kill on power once I got some distance and started focussing on immob. In fact, only time he won was when he hit me with a target painter before engaging, and even then it took him more than a couple of tries to get the damage in. So while he didn't play badly at all, he also didn't have the flexibility in his build to kill me easily if the opening burst didn't do enough damage. He was running smoke screen, shadow step and infiltrator's signet, and I'm pretty sure he was he was DA trick SA although I wasn't paying enough attention to notice if he had hidden killer.

D/D core has little in the way of engage potential which another reason IF going that route SW has to be considered. If the enemy breaks off or fights at range there little the d/d player can do outside the steal to close the gap. When on d/d power and the enemy in trouble you need to finish them quick and if all they need to is open range to ensure that does not happen there no gap closer outside the steal. SW plus steal is three closers (WHEN SW works) and infiltrators a fourth.

Now I do not play a d/d power build with that as my main weapon set but I do play d/d condition where I am in d/d all the time and gap closing is the number one issue. If facing a Ranger as example you can be killed before you even get in range of them. This will happen even if you in a dire build with higher toughness and vitality then a typical power build.

If in power and core you have less stealth, less dodges and evades , one port to as utility that can be used (infiltrators) and that about it . It far to easy to counter via range and mobility and especially since their burst so much weaker now. D/D power used to be able to rely on an opening burst to get that upper hand but that potential is much less now. RFI/Withdraw are generally gap openers. The problem with d/d core power is as not so much as opening a gap as it is closing one.

When you use a withdraw you now have to close that gap again and are open to attacks when you do.

I usually de-target for Withdraw and run it behind them. I kind of wish it was ground targeted like Shadowstep, I still take a dive off a wall or cliff once in awhile.

With the old traps and trappers runes I used to withdraw INto the target. That would drop a trap on top of them.

That whole action had to be fun to watch play out. Thinking back on GW2 history it's crazy what you can't pull off anymore and what we can pull off now.

babazhook.6805 · April 13, 2020

@kash.9213 said:
@babazhook.6805 said:
@kash.9213 said:
@babazhook.6805 said:
@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:I ran into a D/D core thief last night, I play quite tanky for a thief on both power and condi so his opening burst wasn't taking me below 50%, making it hard for him to capitalise on the opening enough to guarantee a win. He died pretty easily to condi (no surprises, condi in general is too strong atm), and also became an easy kill on power once I got some distance and started focussing on immob. In fact, only time he won was when he hit me with a target painter before engaging, and even then it took him more than a couple of tries to get the damage in. So while he didn't play badly at all, he also didn't have the flexibility in his build to kill me easily if the opening burst didn't do enough damage. He was running smoke screen, shadow step and infiltrator's signet, and I'm pretty sure he was he was DA trick SA although I wasn't paying enough attention to notice if he had hidden killer.

D/D core has little in the way of engage potential which another reason IF going that route SW has to be considered. If the enemy breaks off or fights at range there little the d/d player can do outside the steal to close the gap. When on d/d power and the enemy in trouble you need to finish them quick and if all they need to is open range to ensure that does not happen there no gap closer outside the steal. SW plus steal is three closers (WHEN SW works) and infiltrators a fourth.

Now I do not play a d/d power build with that as my main weapon set but I do play d/d condition where I am in d/d all the time and gap closing is the number one issue. If facing a Ranger as example you can be killed before you even get in range of them. This will happen even if you in a dire build with higher toughness and vitality then a typical power build.

If in power and core you have less stealth, less dodges and evades , one port to as utility that can be used (infiltrators) and that about it . It far to easy to counter via range and mobility and especially since their burst so much weaker now. D/D power used to be able to rely on an opening burst to get that upper hand but that potential is much less now. RFI/Withdraw are generally gap openers. The problem with d/d core power is as not so much as opening a gap as it is closing one.

When you use a withdraw you now have to close that gap again and are open to attacks when you do.

I usually de-target for Withdraw and run it behind them. I kind of wish it was ground targeted like Shadowstep, I still take a dive off a wall or cliff once in awhile.

With the old traps and trappers runes I used to withdraw INto the target. That would drop a trap on top of them.

That whole action had to be fun to watch play out. Thinking back on GW2 history it's crazy what you can't pull off anymore and what we can pull off now.

The other thing I would do with old traps and respite was preload a trap off the toolbar before the steal then steal with a port to wherein the trap would drop just as I got there. This would stealth me allowing a stealth attack as trap triggered. It required great timing and practice but was very effective. It felt much more rewarding when it was pulled off properly.

Yasai.3549 · April 14, 2020

Only time I have seen D/D actually being good is when played Condi on DD with Lotus and just evade spam all over a target then running away.Then trying again 20 seconds later.

Any other times I just push their face in.

Jugglemonkey.8741 · April 14, 2020

@babazhook.6805 said:
@kash.9213 said:
@babazhook.6805 said:
@kash.9213 said:
@babazhook.6805 said:
@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:I ran into a D/D core thief last night, I play quite tanky for a thief on both power and condi so his opening burst wasn't taking me below 50%, making it hard for him to capitalise on the opening enough to guarantee a win. He died pretty easily to condi (no surprises, condi in general is too strong atm), and also became an easy kill on power once I got some distance and started focussing on immob. In fact, only time he won was when he hit me with a target painter before engaging, and even then it took him more than a couple of tries to get the damage in. So while he didn't play badly at all, he also didn't have the flexibility in his build to kill me easily if the opening burst didn't do enough damage. He was running smoke screen, shadow step and infiltrator's signet, and I'm pretty sure he was he was DA trick SA although I wasn't paying enough attention to notice if he had hidden killer.