energy cost and cool downs

[xXMapcoXx.9614]

Ok, a little disclaimer: I know this thread will not trigger any dramatic rework, however with that said i simple just want an answer to the choices. I know this topic has been talk to death and seeing as we are no major chances have been made i seriously doubt this will amount to much. I just got to know why is revenant force to have energy cost and cool downs? I know you revy plays love this for some odd reason. It force you to completely ignore a majorty of skills on you bar because you are force to save your energy for you utilifty skills. I know one argument was the fact that revy gets access to mores skills, well so does the ele and they are not force to juggle energy cost with cd.

[Hitomi Shadowleaf.5629]

Its a call back to GW1 style of play, if it doesn't appeal to you. There are 8 other classes. I've played Rev since HoT launch and it feels good in PvE, my only complaints about it are the lack of weapons and elites spec that dont suit my taste. But I understand that should issues are my problem.

[Zaret.1450]

First in wich pve mode are you playing ,raid fract? And in what build ? Because the condi renegade and alacrene both have less problems with the energy+cd sistem .2 the say rev would be too strong if it got the cd meck out and compare it with the thief and so on wich is stupid in my opinion, you cant compare thief with rev , thiefs only have one option to play around and its dmg , and dont come with the sup because thats a boss especific mech that doesnt work anywere else and also thief resource doesnt work with upkeeps so in fact its different .Now that said the problem revs have with energy +cd is that we have cds similar or even longer than other classes and we also have an energy mechanic that is in fact the worst resource in the game , to point the cons : we start with only half the resource in a fight wich is 50 out of 100 and each legend swap gets us back to 50 also the trait suposed to help in the swap makes us get to 75 if we swap under 10 energy in the previous legend , yes we have an energy regeneration per second but being honest in most legends the strongest skills are the upkeeps , also lets imagine we dont use the upkeeps and instead use only normal skills , then using the trait to get to 75 in swap is useless as it would be almost imposible to swap under 10 energy , that makes you start alwais at 50 and having to wait to regain energy, also we have the energy cost wich is absurd , half of our skills are just utility skills that are situational and some of them are for very specific situations ,so revs having more skills than other clases is plain kitten false , also the skills we could need uaualy have an energy cost around 20-25 energy (come more) wich having a 50 energy base is the same as just being able to use 2 skills in a row and having to wait to be able to use other skill , now about having more skills than others ... Lets count the weapons we have divided per set ok?1 power : sword /sword , hammer , staff(wich is more utility than dmg but well)2condi: mace/axe ,shortbow (yes axe is condi like it or not )3utility:shield (if it is even used because it is awful) and staffOk now in power swords are fine , sw3 is slow as hell even when sb smokescale skill is the same but faster they dont want to touch sw3 ok, hammer has just being nerfed to oblivion and bugged till its painfull, mace/axe and sb are good , sb has problems in pvp wich could be solved but just why bother right? Staff is great , mediocre dmg a heal that is at most a pain in the ass but a lot of evades and blocs just what we needed having a dwarf and glint legends that could do great having the block instead of our weapon right? Shield ... Is it even used , i mean is it even suposed to work because that block is like being in cuaranteen waiting for death realy, no movement no way to come back if some enemy suround you just waiting for death .So that are our weapons , pretty usefull right ? Maybe we can make weapon combos ... No wait , in most cases we use only one of them ? What? So usualy sb in pvp modes work awfull so its not worthit? In raid the only power weapon is sword wich is also used in sup and healer buids because staff is for cc only and isnt realy needed? Hammer is so nerfed that its almost not worth in pvp ?.... Ok lets continue with legends ok ? Were suposed to have 10 different suport skills to choose allwais so we have a huge advantage right? Lets count them1shiro: heal , well its a siphon than you use to deal more dmg because the heal is not that good , you heal more with traits , impossible odds , well litheraly the only skill you use in raid when in shiro, the two movement skills that i still think should be like the old ranger sword skill , we already have tons of gap closers on legend and on weapons (if you think we need this one then...well ill never get how your brain works) and the elite , a cc with vulne and a bit of dmg , mmm i still think it doesnt deserve to be an elite , dont know nerf the vuln staks the range or number of targets but i think it doesnt deserve to be a elite so change it to a normal skill.2:dwarf good heal , upkeep pretty usefull as dmg dealer and dmg reduction, road is fine , maybe a bit more duration or make it longer or whider as it seems to short, chains ,maybe a little bit dmg ? And a good ult as it is a good dmg reductor , too spensive maybe for the duration but good for its purpose wich is tanking .Mallinx : well after the recent changes id only do a change make the heal heal you and give resistance for 3 secs or so instead of having one heal and one resistance skill , dunno it looks more natural that way i think4 ventari : cool mechanick , a bit difficult to control but not bad , that ult is a bit akward for me but its not bad5 glint: sooo.... All upkeeps is funny for a meme and could work fine if it was in a different way but , well , common buffs that everyone has and power that cant even get to 25 unless you use everything to get it to 25 , consumes are not that bad but again that ult is not worth to be an ult( where is that skill we saw rythlok use in the cinematic ? That would be a good ult even without consume ( dunno make that skill so it consumes all upkeeps and hit harder per upkeep consumed with a fire field atached and voila a great ult for herald that is also amazing to see) also the herald mech could be improved as its a bit more of the same .6 renegade: finaly both strong and weak things , this will make a lot of people angry but it has to be said , orders from above with its trait is broken strong and also one of the few things that makes revs still alive , its one button to get a 10 man perma alacrity if you build concentration , sorry but i think its boring and i dont like it , maybe something like staking kalla stacks to finaly consume them in exchange for alacrity? And also reworking the other skills to have a similar effect , i mean stack kalla to get more power or stack kalla to get more bombs , all in one trait that takes the stack buffs in exchange for upgraded skills, then next thing will have people against and in favor but kallas sumons , they are fucking wells , someone had to say it , theyre wells that can be killed so why not making them like companions , at least so they can get boons like power , quickness and so on and also be affected by burn and debuffs , like nigros pets because now are nigros wells but killable so one thing or the other dont start creating things that dont work.far from that theyre usefull in their way ( if theyre not killed , im being too obsesed with that but WELLS THAT CAN DIE MAN )Now that i think about it i didnt say how all the skills work and why you alwqis end up using only one or two per legend in each game mode ... Well youll have to play rev to get it anyway so if you dont understand play rev and see yourself only thing ill say is when you dont have usefull skills in your current level and you still have 30 energy so you swap legends and use the skill you needed , then you look at your energy and the swap cd , well hope you dont need the upkeep or other skill too and find yourself under 10 energy and a 9 sec swap cd thats all.Traits could be reworked , in special one litlle trait caled charged mists that is a GM trait needed by everyone but also in need of a buff , a litle area buff trait in a full self dmg line that could be better in a line related to our legends giving exclusive buff depending on the legend youre in ... And so on but i think we get the point right ?For all those revenants reading this , good luck , and may our revs either get back to the mists or get some deserved buffs in both stregth and fun playstile.

[Kulvar.1239]

@xXMapcoXx.9614 said:Ok, a little disclaimer: I know this thread will not trigger any dramatic rework, however with that said i simple just want an answer to the choices. I know this topic has been talk to death and seeing as we are no major chances have been made i seriously doubt this will amount to much. I just got to know why is revenant force to have energy cost and cool downs? I know you revy plays love this for some odd reason. It force you to completely ignore a majorty of skills on you bar because you are force to save your energy for you utilifty skills. I know one argument was the fact that revy gets access to mores skills, well so does the ele and they are not force to juggle energy cost with cd.

Stronger than average skills, energy so you can't use all your abilities on cooldown, cooldown to avoid spamming the strongest ability.Simple, neat, efficient. I love it. I find it to be the best design of all classes.

@Hitomi Shadowleaf.5629 said:Its a call back to GW1 style of play, if it doesn't appeal to you. There are 8 other classes. I've played Rev since HoT launch and it feels good in PvE, my only complaints about it are the lack of weapons and elites spec that dont suit my taste. But I understand that should issues are my problem.

I feel that too. I would love being able to use a longbow as I love Pharus looks.And I would love it if the offhand axe was a focus instead so I could do Mallyx + Bindings of Ipos.

[Taril.8619]

Energy Cost + CD's is fine. CD's prevent the Feef issue where you just spam literally the most optimal skill over and over and over. While Energy gives you more freedom to have lower CD skills.

My only qualm is sometimes certain abilities can feel like they have too high an energy cost, making them sit around being unused even if they're fine abilities. This is especially notable when not using Invocation for Charged Mists so you only have 50 energy upon switching Legend and with a skill that costs like 30 energy you're already practically out of energy immediately... Which ends up with Charged Mists being in nearly every build which kind of sucks...

As far as comparing to other classes, no other class gets access to multiple sets of utility skills (Including Elite skills), which is presumably the reason for the Energy limitation. While Elementalist pays for the 4x Weapon Skills with inability to swap weapons in combat as well as higher average skill CD's and Engie pays for the ability to swap to and from kits with their inability to swap weapons in combat and the loss of the utility/elite skill slot that holds the kit (Mitigated slightly by toolbelt actions, but then again, with a non-kit utility they get the toolbelt + the utility skill)

@Hitomi Shadowleaf.5629 said:I've played Rev since HoT launch and it feels good in PvE, my only complaints about it are the lack of weapons and elites spec that dont suit my taste. But I understand that should issues are my problem.

Yeah, lack of weapons is kind of lame. A new elite spec will help somewhat, but then pidgeonhole into having to use that elite in order to use the new weapon...

As a Power Rev it often feels like my only weapon options are S/S. With Hammer and Staff both feeling pretty crummy...

Not to mention, how annoying the lack of finishers can be (I still don't understand how Citadel Bombardment isn't a Blast finisher... It'd also be nice if Deathstrike and Frigid Blitz were Leap finishers too)

[Virdo.1540]

its just dumb. They wanted revs to be like thiefslow cooldown + energy cost

now we have high cooldowns and high energy costs. Why not play other classes which have the same CDs but no energy

People just dont know how to nerf revs ,if 2-3 players are permanently whining about them being op

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Virdo.1540 said:its just dumb. They wanted revs to be like thiefslow cooldown + energy cost

now we have high cooldowns and high energy costs. Why not play other classes which have the same CDs but no energy

People just dont know how to nerf revs ,if 2-3 players are permanently whining about them being op

Yeah that's just cuz the team isnt knowledgeable enough to properly balance the classes not just rev so they go the easiest laziest route. Look at thief, every patch increase ini on any problem skills and done lol. The teams not as good as people praise them for.

[Scoobaniec.9561]

I would balance this game better in a month than them in.. 8 yrs