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The Death of Thief


darren.1064

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@"Sekai.2987" said:well after over 1k people saw it live on stream with teapot and even more now with posted here i think its obvious how good condi thief is and its not anymore about "thief is dead" but more about people dont want to change their playstyle, this also means to change from power to condition dmg if its necessary and if its simply the better build until the next balance patch, dont cling to your old build guys

I mean tbh, noone exactly called condi thief being good before today. Hell, even now Im not sure how much its condi thief being good, and how much its people being unprepared for it. Besides, condi thief is a different playstyle, and a boring one at that.

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@"Tayga.3192" said:Nobody expected condi thief so nobody specced into cleansing.I'm sad I can't play because of ping issues because the mesmer build I use would be very strong vs "condi thief-renegade meta" up to P2 I think. Tested prepatch: they got nerfed, I didn't.

"Nobody speced into cleansing" oh you know except for the double prot holo with insane condition conversion, and misha with elusive mind over infinite horizon.

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wow another braindead condi thief build? why people don't realize how thief is cheese at coreonly thief that takes skill is the ones that required to play the macro game

tHieF iS dEaD

I used to give no opinion on "thieves are sheeps", but now I am convinced they really are.

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

@Vancho.8750 said:This is really funny cause every thief main is being melodramatic, OU NOWS, thief can't oneshot people anymore like the last kitten patch and get all points. It is not even benched like most professions when they get the nerf bat, it is still meta. It is not like the previous season thieves were forcing people deeper in the bunker role since you couldn't catch up to them and they did hyper damage, thieves had their fun but now "ou my the turntables", everyone is on some type of bunker build, it is not like it wasn't expected.Thief meta just sucks for everyone else.I don't see much whining from warriors since they are kinda meh this patch, not bad, not good but still kinda there doing their thing , but then again rolling core necro or fb would probably be better.Calm your mammaries the current bunker builds would get a shave and thief will be able to stab them to death again, it is not like there aren't viable builds for thief.

name a viable non-cheese build for thief.Well i can't cause the class is kinda cheese by default. Maybe they will make the next elite non cheese.

Okay, now name a viable build for thief that uses cheese. I'll make it easier for you.Here you go
,
. It is really funny cause there are allot of builds for thief on metabatlle and then looked at warrior having 2 which are kinda the same, lol. I think only engi had more builds listed then thief.

I looked at those for 30 seconds and I can tell you right now that none of those builds are doing anything but showcasing my point further. They're simple +1 and decapping builds. None of them are winning a single 1v1.Well i ain't seeing warriors winning teamfights or reapers winning 1v1 welcome to the pigeonholed club your class is bad at something by design.

The more you talk with thieves or mesmers..the more you realize how much they are affected by a
god complex
, it's like they're out of touch with reality..they're asking for a build that snip-snap around the map at will, engage/disengage equally at will and ofc be able to 1v1 and win against anybody.....really

no. i'm asking to do damage. With every comment i'm bringing yall legit points. You guys are bringing opinions. I want a build that doesn't feel like tickles to a clown. Instead I do 500 damage an autoattack or 5k a Backstab. All while being the easiest profession to kill. I'm not asking for more than other professions. I'm asking for the bare minimum.

if you want to do damage, give up your mobility and stealth. simple.

No it's simple that THAT isnt a rule at all any further than some forum posters opinions on such. They indeed can have high burst, mobility and stealth while being squishy so...

if you have stealth and mobility and high burst, it does not matter how squishy you are. You either one-shot or disengage and vanish at will. Squishiness does not even matter.

Thief is broken and should not even be allowed in pvp or wvw until stealth is removed - or has some massive, REAL drawbacks.

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Thief is in a weird place. It went from high mobility high risk high reward to -> high mobility high sustain you can't kill me but I can't kill you.

Thief play style is like that of a fly right now:

  • It moves real fast and randomly
  • It gets all up in your face with low damage
  • It can't kill you but it pisses you off
  • So you get enraged and try to chase it
  • But it's too fast and you can't catch it while it runs away
  • Eventually you #$%^ up and stub your toe on something and the fly wins

^ That is for real what Thief play is right now. It doesn't beat you directly. It beats you by goading you into doing stupid things.

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@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

@Vancho.8750 said:This is really funny cause every thief main is being melodramatic, OU NOWS, thief can't oneshot people anymore like the last kitten patch and get all points. It is not even benched like most professions when they get the nerf bat, it is still meta. It is not like the previous season thieves were forcing people deeper in the bunker role since you couldn't catch up to them and they did hyper damage, thieves had their fun but now "ou my the turntables", everyone is on some type of bunker build, it is not like it wasn't expected.Thief meta just sucks for everyone else.I don't see much whining from warriors since they are kinda meh this patch, not bad, not good but still kinda there doing their thing , but then again rolling core necro or fb would probably be better.Calm your mammaries the current bunker builds would get a shave and thief will be able to stab them to death again, it is not like there aren't viable builds for thief.

name a viable non-cheese build for thief.Well i can't cause the class is kinda cheese by default. Maybe they will make the next elite non cheese.

Okay, now name a viable build for thief that uses cheese. I'll make it easier for you.Here you go
,
. It is really funny cause there are allot of builds for thief on metabatlle and then looked at warrior having 2 which are kinda the same, lol. I think only engi had more builds listed then thief.

I looked at those for 30 seconds and I can tell you right now that none of those builds are doing anything but showcasing my point further. They're simple +1 and decapping builds. None of them are winning a single 1v1.Well i ain't seeing warriors winning teamfights or reapers winning 1v1 welcome to the pigeonholed club your class is bad at something by design.

The more you talk with thieves or mesmers..the more you realize how much they are affected by a
god complex
, it's like they're out of touch with reality..they're asking for a build that snip-snap around the map at will, engage/disengage equally at will and ofc be able to 1v1 and win against anybody.....really

no. i'm asking to do damage. With every comment i'm bringing yall legit points. You guys are bringing opinions. I want a build that doesn't feel like tickles to a clown. Instead I do 500 damage an autoattack or 5k a Backstab. All while being the easiest profession to kill. I'm not asking for more than other professions. I'm asking for the bare minimum.

if you want to do damage, give up your mobility and stealth. simple.

No it's simple that THAT isnt a rule at all any further than some forum posters opinions on such. They indeed can have high burst, mobility and stealth while being squishy so...

if you have stealth and mobility and high burst, it does not matter how squishy you are. You either one-shot or disengage and vanish at will. Squishiness does not even matter.

It does matter, in that there is a certain amount of time before you can swap to shortbow 5 and run away. But usually you dont die in that certain amount of time.

Thief is broken and should not even be allowed in pvp or wvw until stealth is removed - or has some massive, REAL drawbacks.

I dont get why people fixate on stealth that much, especially in the context of the underperforming in-combat stealth. For that matter ,thief has massive real drawbacks already. The fact that they cant ever fight anyone. Theyre exclusively a +1 and decap class. If their team doesnt facilitate their plays, they are completely useless.

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@"Poledra Val.1490" said:The biggest issue right now is that for some inexplicable reason thief always seems to have some of the most braindead builds in pvp, pistol condie thief requires once again much like its predecessor such little skill yet its mightily effective.

Blame the main design concept of thief with initiative , whenever you lower the skill ceiling for the class, you end up with "one hit wonder" builds running all over the place

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@Poledra Val.1490 said:The biggest issue right now is that for some inexplicable reason thief always seems to have some of the most braindead builds in pvp, pistol condie thief requires once again much like its predecessor such little skill yet its mightily effective.

It wouldn't exist if thief balance was taken seriously. If power builds did absolutely any damage, thief condi builds wouldn't even be around. Instead, you guys are gonna have to suffer because condi thief is the only way that thief can do damage currently.

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@darren.1064 said:

@Poledra Val.1490 said:The biggest issue right now is that for some inexplicable reason thief always seems to have some of the most braindead builds in pvp, pistol condie thief requires once again much like its predecessor such little skill yet its mightily effective.

It wouldn't exist if thief balance was taken seriously. If power builds did absolutely any damage, thief condi builds wouldn't even be around. Instead, you guys are gonna have to suffer because condi thief is the only way that thief can do damage currently.

That's not true u can play a full damage CS p/d build that had gbage clears, or swap swap out trick for SA and run out of ur universal resource after 2 skills. Vids show thief builds can in fact do high damage, to bad their so bad in every other regard thier useless for for the most part, hence why no other class is forced to run ALL damage traits to do decent dps while retaining usefulness lol but its thief so it's good as it is. Thief is especially good for high dps if u trait its 3 min cd thieves guild.

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Poledra Val.1490 said:The biggest issue right now is that for some inexplicable reason thief always seems to have some of the most braindead builds in pvp, pistol condie thief requires once again much like its predecessor such little skill yet its mightily effective.

It wouldn't exist if thief balance was taken seriously. If power builds did absolutely any damage, thief condi builds wouldn't even be around. Instead, you guys are gonna have to suffer because condi thief is the only way that thief can do damage currently.

That's not true u can play a full damage CS p/d build that had gbage clears, or swap swap out trick for SA and run out of ur universal resource after 2 skills. Vids show thief builds can un fact do high damage, to bad their so bad in every other regard thier useless for for the most part, hence why no other class is forced to run ALL damage traits to do decent dps while retaining usefulness lol but its thief so it's good as it is.

Know what counters P/D? D/P which is power based.

Oh and Thieves Guild should not be ran in ranked. No other class is forced to run a 3 minute CD elite just to do decent damage for 30 seconds. You can literally wait it out and then kill the thief pretty easily because thieves have no other backups currently.

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@darren.1064 said:

@"Poledra Val.1490" said:The biggest issue right now is that for some inexplicable reason thief always seems to have some of the most braindead builds in pvp, pistol condie thief requires once again much like its predecessor such little skill yet its mightily effective.

+1

'Madness Of P/D Condition - Thief WvW (Guild Wars 2 Gameplay)'
  • 7 years ago
  • 'Remember when ur on this build of mine do never ever expect to kill ur target as fast as u would as a Backstab( Dmg ) Thief'

1.) You're talking WvW, we're talking ranked PvP. This obviously isn't your area of expertise.2.) That video is SEVEN years old. In 2013 Obama had just been inaugurated into his second term.

if you need a positive answer, than you need to keep your attitude positive

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@Burnfall.9573 said:

@"Poledra Val.1490" said:The biggest issue right now is that for some inexplicable reason thief always seems to have some of the most braindead builds in pvp, pistol condie thief requires once again much like its predecessor such little skill yet its mightily effective.

+1

'Madness Of P/D Condition - Thief WvW (Guild Wars 2 Gameplay)'
  • 7 years ago
  • 'Remember when ur on this build of mine do never ever expect to kill ur target as fast as u would as a Backstab( Dmg ) Thief'

1.) You're talking WvW, we're talking ranked PvP. This obviously isn't your area of expertise.2.) That video is SEVEN years old. In 2013 Obama had just been inaugurated into his second term.

if you need a positive answer, than you need to keep your attitude positive

I don't want a positive answer from you. I want you to either contribute something thoughtful or leave honestly. And I know I'll get a warning and this comment will get taken down, but all you ever do is post nonsense to support your theories on why thief is the bad guy in situations when it's not even relevant. I'm a college student and if I submitted a paper or homework using your thought processes then I'd expect to fail the class honestly. Like really, say something worthwhile or just go to a different thread

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@darren.1064 said:

@"Poledra Val.1490" said:The biggest issue right now is that for some inexplicable reason thief always seems to have some of the most braindead builds in pvp, pistol condie thief requires once again much like its predecessor such little skill yet its mightily effective.

+1

'Madness Of P/D Condition - Thief WvW (Guild Wars 2 Gameplay)'
  • 7 years ago
  • 'Remember when ur on this build of mine do never ever expect to kill ur target as fast as u would as a Backstab( Dmg ) Thief'

1.) You're talking WvW, we're talking ranked PvP. This obviously isn't your area of expertise.2.) That video is SEVEN years old. In 2013 Obama had just been inaugurated into his second term.

if you need a positive answer, than you need to keep your attitude positive

I don't want a positive answer from you. I want you to either contribute something thoughtful or leave honestly. And I know I'll get a warning and this comment will get taken down, but all you ever do is post nonsense to support your theories on why thief is the bad guy in situations when it's not even relevant. I'm a college student and if I submitted a paper or homework using your thought processes then I'd expect to fail the class honestly. Like really, say something worthwhile or just go to a different thread

Get rid of your Toxic Attitude-Sense of Entitlement, and Sense of Inferiority. Toxic Attitude will not help you achieve anything and will only hurt your goals

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@Burnfall.9573 said:

@"Poledra Val.1490" said:The biggest issue right now is that for some inexplicable reason thief always seems to have some of the most braindead builds in pvp, pistol condie thief requires once again much like its predecessor such little skill yet its mightily effective.

+1

'Madness Of P/D Condition - Thief WvW (Guild Wars 2 Gameplay)'
  • 7 years ago
  • 'Remember when ur on this build of mine do never ever expect to kill ur target as fast as u would as a Backstab( Dmg ) Thief'

1.) You're talking WvW, we're talking ranked PvP. This obviously isn't your area of expertise.2.) That video is SEVEN years old. In 2013 Obama had just been inaugurated into his second term.

if you need a positive answer, than you need to keep your attitude positive

I don't want a positive answer from you. I want you to either contribute something thoughtful or leave honestly. And I know I'll get a warning and this comment will get taken down, but all you ever do is post nonsense to support your theories on why thief is the bad guy in situations when it's not even relevant. I'm a college student and if I submitted a paper or homework using your thought processes then I'd expect to fail the class honestly. Like really, say something worthwhile or just go to a different thread

Get rid of your Toxic Attitude-Sense of Entitlement and Sense of Inferiority. Toxic Attitude will not help you achieve anything and will only hurt your goals.

I'm not toxic. I just don't care for the nonsense that you say.

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@darren.1064 said:

@"Poledra Val.1490" said:The biggest issue right now is that for some inexplicable reason thief always seems to have some of the most braindead builds in pvp, pistol condie thief requires once again much like its predecessor such little skill yet its mightily effective.

+1

'Madness Of P/D Condition - Thief WvW (Guild Wars 2 Gameplay)'
  • 7 years ago
  • 'Remember when ur on this build of mine do never ever expect to kill ur target as fast as u would as a Backstab( Dmg ) Thief'

1.) You're talking WvW, we're talking ranked PvP. This obviously isn't your area of expertise.2.) That video is SEVEN years old. In 2013 Obama had just been inaugurated into his second term.

if you need a positive answer, than you need to keep your attitude positive

I don't want a positive answer from you. I want you to either contribute something thoughtful or leave honestly. And I know I'll get a warning and this comment will get taken down, but all you ever do is post nonsense to support your theories on why thief is the bad guy in situations when it's not even relevant. I'm a college student and if I submitted a paper or homework using your thought processes then I'd expect to fail the class honestly. Like really, say something worthwhile or just go to a different thread

Get rid of your Toxic Attitude-Sense of Entitlement and Sense of Inferiority. Toxic Attitude will not help you achieve anything and will only hurt your goals.

I'm not toxic. I just don't care for the nonsense that you say.

@"Poledra Val.1490" said:The biggest issue right now is that for some inexplicable reason thief always seems to have some of the most braindead builds in pvp, pistol condie thief requires once again much like its predecessor such little skill yet its mightily effective.

+1

'Madness Of P/D Condition - Thief WvW (Guild Wars 2 Gameplay)'
  • 7 years ago
  • 'Remember when ur on this build of mine do never ever expect to kill ur target as fast as u would as a Backstab( Dmg ) Thief'

1.) You're talking WvW, we're talking ranked PvP. This obviously isn't your area of expertise.2.) That video is SEVEN years old. In 2013 Obama had just been inaugurated into his second term.

if you need a positive answer, than you need to keep your attitude positive

I don't want a positive answer from you. I want you to either contribute something thoughtful or leave honestly. And I know I'll get a warning and this comment will get taken down, but all you ever do is post nonsense to support your theories on why thief is the bad guy in situations when it's not even relevant. I'm a college student and if I submitted a paper or homework using your thought processes then I'd expect to fail the class honestly. Like really, say something worthwhile or just go to a different thread

Get rid of your Toxic Attitude-Sense of Entitlement and Sense of Inferiority. Toxic Attitude will not help you achieve anything and will only hurt your goals.

I'm not toxic. I just don't care for the nonsense that you say.

your attitude is Toxic

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@Burnfall.9573 said:

@"Poledra Val.1490" said:The biggest issue right now is that for some inexplicable reason thief always seems to have some of the most braindead builds in pvp, pistol condie thief requires once again much like its predecessor such little skill yet its mightily effective.

+1

'Madness Of P/D Condition - Thief WvW (Guild Wars 2 Gameplay)'
  • 7 years ago
  • 'Remember when ur on this build of mine do never ever expect to kill ur target as fast as u would as a Backstab( Dmg ) Thief'

1.) You're talking WvW, we're talking ranked PvP. This obviously isn't your area of expertise.2.) That video is SEVEN years old. In 2013 Obama had just been inaugurated into his second term.

if you need a positive answer, than you need to keep your attitude positive

I don't want a positive answer from you. I want you to either contribute something thoughtful or leave honestly. And I know I'll get a warning and this comment will get taken down, but all you ever do is post nonsense to support your theories on why thief is the bad guy in situations when it's not even relevant. I'm a college student and if I submitted a paper or homework using your thought processes then I'd expect to fail the class honestly. Like really, say something worthwhile or just go to a different thread

Get rid of your Toxic Attitude-Sense of Entitlement and Sense of Inferiority. Toxic Attitude will not help you achieve anything and will only hurt your goals.

I'm not toxic. I just don't care for the nonsense that you say.

@"Poledra Val.1490" said:The biggest issue right now is that for some inexplicable reason thief always seems to have some of the most braindead builds in pvp, pistol condie thief requires once again much like its predecessor such little skill yet its mightily effective.

+1

'Madness Of P/D Condition - Thief WvW (Guild Wars 2 Gameplay)'
  • 7 years ago
  • 'Remember when ur on this build of mine do never ever expect to kill ur target as fast as u would as a Backstab( Dmg ) Thief'

1.) You're talking WvW, we're talking ranked PvP. This obviously isn't your area of expertise.2.) That video is SEVEN years old. In 2013 Obama had just been inaugurated into his second term.

if you need a positive answer, than you need to keep your attitude positive

I don't want a positive answer from you. I want you to either contribute something thoughtful or leave honestly. And I know I'll get a warning and this comment will get taken down, but all you ever do is post nonsense to support your theories on why thief is the bad guy in situations when it's not even relevant. I'm a college student and if I submitted a paper or homework using your thought processes then I'd expect to fail the class honestly. Like really, say something worthwhile or just go to a different thread

Get rid of your Toxic Attitude-Sense of Entitlement and Sense of Inferiority. Toxic Attitude will not help you achieve anything and will only hurt your goals.

I'm not toxic. I just don't care for the nonsense that you say.

your attitude is Toxic

If you'd like me to be less "toxic" then try saying something relevant, thoughtful and that will contribute to the conversation WE'RE having. Not just the silver tier agendas you're pushing.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

Burnfall is linking videos from 2013 attempting to talk about the state of thief today. If Burnfall wanted to contribute to the conversation that we're having then Burnfall can post a video of thief from within the past 2 months. But from 7 years ago? nah not on this post.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

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@darren.1064 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

Burnfall is linking videos from 2013 attempting to talk about the state of thief today. If Burnfall wanted to contribute to the conversation that we're having then Burnfall can post a video of thief from within the past 2 months. But from 7 years ago? nah not on this post.

nothing changed design wise from 2013, if anything its even worse due to dagger storm. He complains about design, I find Initiative as one of the worst designed thing ever personally.

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

Oh I almost forgot, the videos are also usually cherry-picked montages typically featuring bad builds.

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