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The Death of Thief


darren.1064

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

In the other hand he might say , that specific spec existed since launch . People where fixated about what the streamers are using atm .While some other like those French teams , thought outside the box and used that WvWvW spec

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

Burnfall is linking videos from 2013 attempting to talk about the state of thief today. If Burnfall wanted to contribute to the conversation that we're having then Burnfall can post a video of thief from within the past 2 months. But from 7 years ago? nah not on this post.

nothing changed design wise from 2013, if anything its even worse due to dagger storm. He complains about design, I find Initiative as one of the worst designed thing ever personally.

I actually do have a question, since I noticed you only have 9,000 AP. Did you actually even play back in 2013? I can promise you Dagger Storm is not the thief skill that's oppressing you as it throws 8 daggers over 3? seconds. I can promise you initiative isn't the problem because most of our initiative is spent on defensive measures instead of offensive. And I can promise you that design wise thief is completely different from 2013 compared to now. If i'm correct, ranked wasn't even a thing in 2013.

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@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

In the other hand he might say , that specific spec existed since launch . People where fixated about what the streamers are using atm .While some other like those French teams , thought outside the box and used that WvWvW spec

Every combination of weapons has existed since launch. Doesnt mean that they were good, nor that they were unchanged. In case of P/D, neither is the case. It wasnt a good weaponset for a very long time, and it saw massive changes a while back with the addition of unload on skill 3.

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

In the other hand he might say , that specific spec existed since launch . People where fixated about what the streamers are using atm .While some other like those French teams , thought outside the box and used that WvWvW spec

Every combination of weapons has existed since launch. Doesnt mean that they were good, nor that they were unchanged. In case of P/D, neither is the case. It wasnt a good weaponset for a very long time, and it saw massive changes a while back with the addition of unload on skill 3.

The majority might had been nerfed since launch . And yet , those 2 French teams used it to counter the established meta and win

I should congratulate the 2 teams , for moving the meta forward . I am looking forward to the no-stack-tournament in July .My boyfriend seem kinda happy atm, and i am going to ''punish'' him later for the giggles:)

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@darren.1064 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

Burnfall is linking videos from 2013 attempting to talk about the state of thief today. If Burnfall wanted to contribute to the conversation that we're having then Burnfall can post a video of thief from within the past 2 months. But from 7 years ago? nah not on this post.

nothing changed design wise from 2013, if anything its even worse due to dagger storm. He complains about design, I find Initiative as one of the worst designed thing ever personally.

I actually do have a question, since I noticed you only have 9,000 AP. Did you actually even play back in 2013? I can promise you Dagger Storm is not the thief skill that's oppressing you as it throws 8 daggers over 3? seconds. I can promise you initiative isn't the problem because most of our initiative is spent on defensive measures instead of offensive. And I can promise you that design wise thief is completely different from 2013 compared to now. If i'm correct, ranked wasn't even a thing in 2013.

alrighty, lets do it differently.tell me how thief changed DESIGN wise since the launch ?how initiative system changed?

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@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

In the other hand he might say , that specific spec existed since launch . People where fixated about what the streamers are using atm .While some other like those French teams , thought outside the box and used that WvWvW spec

Every combination of weapons has existed since launch. Doesnt mean that they were good, nor that they were unchanged. In case of P/D, neither is the case. It wasnt a good weaponset for a very long time, and it saw massive changes a while back with the addition of unload on skill 3.

The majority might had been nerfed since launch . And yet , those 2 French teams used it to counter the established meta and win

The build worked out. But the video burnfall shows, as usual, is irrelevant.

I should congratulate the 2 teams , for moving the meta forward . I am looking forward to the no-stack-tournament in July .My boyfriend seem kinda happy atm, and i am going to ''punish'' him later for the giggles:)

A thief player who doesnt loathe condi thief? Preposterous.

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

In the other hand he might say , that specific spec existed since launch . People where fixated about what the streamers are using atm .While some other like those French teams , thought outside the box and used that WvWvW spec

Every combination of weapons has existed since launch. Doesnt mean that they were good, nor that they were unchanged. In case of P/D, neither is the case. It wasnt a good weaponset for a very long time, and it saw massive changes a while back with the addition of unload on skill 3.

The majority might had been nerfed since launch . And yet , those 2 French teams used it to counter the established meta and win

The build worked out. But the video burnfall shows, as usual, is irrelevant.

I should congratulate the 2 teams , for moving the meta forward . I am looking forward to the no-stack-tournament in July .My boyfriend seem kinda happy atm, and i am going to ''punish'' him later for the giggles:)

A thief player who doesnt loathe condi thief? Preposterous.

Its not entirely irrelevant .The Sustain was not on par with the current meta (especially the warrior) , based on the video . And thieves had multiply nerfs since then

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

Burnfall is linking videos from 2013 attempting to talk about the state of thief today. If Burnfall wanted to contribute to the conversation that we're having then Burnfall can post a video of thief from within the past 2 months. But from 7 years ago? nah not on this post.

nothing changed design wise from 2013, if anything its even worse due to dagger storm. He complains about design, I find Initiative as one of the worst designed thing ever personally.

I actually do have a question, since I noticed you only have 9,000 AP. Did you actually even play back in 2013? I can promise you Dagger Storm is not the thief skill that's oppressing you as it throws 8 daggers over 3? seconds. I can promise you initiative isn't the problem because most of our initiative is spent on defensive measures instead of offensive. And I can promise you that design wise thief is completely different from 2013 compared to now. If i'm correct, ranked wasn't even a thing in 2013.

alrighty, lets do it differently.tell me how thief changed DESIGN wise since the launch ?how initiative system changed?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow%27s_Rejuvenationhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Kleptomaniac/historyhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Roll_for_Initiative/history

Base initiative for thief has always been 12 and you could trait up for an additional 3 stealth through the trickery traitline. However, initiative was more "expensive" to come by back in 2012-2013. As you can see, skills like Roll For Initiative had a cooldown of 60 seconds way back when as opposed to the 35 second cooldown that it currently has. To make up for initiative being such an expensive commodity to come by, thieves did way more damage back then as opposed to now. Thieves were also (as I have noted) the #1 1v1 profession back then. So as the basics of initiative have been moderately unchanged, the ways that you come by initiative have changed plentiful. While initiative is still hard to come by and skills like Unload that would give u 3 initiative back in pvp for completion now only give 1 initiative back which led to the near demise of P/P thief. As skills have also become more expensive to use in PvP, we have reached a moment in PvP arenas where thieves frequently run out of initiative and unlike the old days when thieves had the damage to climb out of sticky situations, thieves don't do enough damage to win fights nor do they have the same access to initiative that they once had. If this answers your question.

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

UNOwen, pull up my history as evidence with main Thief Profession Players who knows me well enough. I've been calling out for Thief Profession to be redesigned and speaking the honest Truth that nerfing them will not change anything and i use History to prove just that.

I realized that nerfing Thief Profession will do more hard than good to the player experience

I do support other Thief Profession constructive suggestions as to how put Thief back into line, being a healthy competitive Profession. Why not? I Same way that i am very Passionate about Necromancer and Mesmer Profession, they deserve that same chance.

My suggestions as the way they have always been before (look up my history), is for Anet to deal with the core root problems than everything else will follow.

Why do we constantly have to deal with the same repetitive problems from 8,7,6,5,4,3,2 years ago? That is the key!!

Shouldn't History be used as a tool to help us learn, improve and to prevent past problems from surfing again?

Shouldn't History be used as a tool to help us decrease Toxicity and to hopefully remove it all together?

Shouldn't History be used to create new growth, new ideas with new visions?

This is what i stand for and this is what i continue to address without sugar-coating the Truth

Thief Profession should've been in much healthier state with having new designs with new improvisation and it deserves it including its passionate players.

I've always said this, i Sympathize Thief Profession for being solely designed as Toxic,to do harm, wrong than good. I've always stood by Thief Profession players in game and defend them against other Toxic Professions (see my recent history experiences) because it is not their fault, they don't deserve to be treated unfairly.

Designing a Profession to do Toxicity bidding is wrong because Thief Profession are worth more than that....it is part of the team.

Intentionally designing a (Judas complex) Profession just for financial mean and with other mean, is cruel at the most. Which is why i will not remain silent until Thief Profession is in a better place

-Burnfall-

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@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

In the other hand he might say , that specific spec existed since launch . People where fixated about what the streamers are using atm .While some other like those French teams , thought outside the box and used that WvWvW spec

Every combination of weapons has existed since launch. Doesnt mean that they were good, nor that they were unchanged. In case of P/D, neither is the case. It wasnt a good weaponset for a very long time, and it saw massive changes a while back with the addition of unload on skill 3.

The majority might had been nerfed since launch . And yet , those 2 French teams used it to counter the established meta and win

The build worked out. But the video burnfall shows, as usual, is irrelevant.

I should congratulate the 2 teams , for moving the meta forward . I am looking forward to the no-stack-tournament in July .My boyfriend seem kinda happy atm, and i am going to ''punish'' him later for the giggles:)

A thief player who doesnt loathe condi thief? Preposterous.

Its not entirely irrelevant .

It is entirely irrelevant. The build wasnt good, since then we had a complete overhaul of not just the trait system, but also conditions as a whole. Skill 3 saw numerous changes, skill 4 a couple, and at that point in time people had yet to figure out how to easily stop Shadow Refuge (why do you think noone uses it anymore) and CnD (why do you think D/D thief fell off the face of the earth). And thats not even getting into how cherrypicked the video is.

The Sustain was not on par with the current meta (especially the warrior) , based on the video . And thieves had multiply nerfs since then

Funny thing that. Sustain on Warrior was actually much better. Healing Signet was nerfed several times since then. Adrenal Healing was nerfed, and you dont get free healing power from traits anymore. Thats just another sign that the video is cherrypicked. Oh and, P/D condi thief specifically was never nerfed. Just buffed. Over and Over.

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@Burnfall.9573 said:

@"Leonidrex.5649" said:you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

UNOwen, pull up my history as evidence with main Thief Profession Players who knows me well enough. I've been calling out for Thief Profession to be redesigned and speaking the honest Truth that nerfing them will not change anything and i use History to prove just that.

I realized that nerfing Thief Profession will do more hard than good to the player experience

I do support other Thief Profession constructive suggestions as to how put Thief back into line, being a healthy competitive Profession. Why not? I Same way that i am very Passionate about Necromancer and Mesmer Profession, they deserve that same chance.

My suggestions as the way they have always been before (look up my history), is for Anet to deal with the core root problems than everything else will follow.

Why do we constantly have to deal with the same repetitive problems from 8,7,6,5,4,3,2 years ago? That is the key!!

Shouldn't History be used as a tool to help us learn, improve and to prevent past problems from surfing again?

Shouldn't History be used as a tool to help us decrease Toxicity and to hopefully remove it all together?

Shouldn't History be used to create new growth, new ideas with new visions?

This is what i stand for and this is what i continue to address without sugar-coating the Truth

Thief Profession should've been in much healthier state with having new designs with new improvisation and it deserves it including its passionate players.

I've always said this, i Sympathize Thief Profession for being solely designed as Toxic,to do harm, wrong than good. I've always stood by Thief Profession players in game and defend them against other Toxic Professions (see my recent history experiences) because it is not their fault, they don't deserve to be treated unfairly.

Designing a Profession to do Toxicity bidding is wrong because Thief Profession are worth more than that....it is part of the team.

Intentionally designing a (Judas complex) Profession just for financial mean and with other mean, is cruel at the most. Which is why i will not remain silent until Thief Profession is in a better place

-Burnfall-

"Go Ahead And Log Out For Me Baby"

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

In the other hand he might say , that specific spec existed since launch . People where fixated about what the streamers are using atm .While some other like those French teams , thought outside the box and used that WvWvW spec

Every combination of weapons has existed since launch. Doesnt mean that they were good, nor that they were unchanged. In case of P/D, neither is the case. It wasnt a good weaponset for a very long time, and it saw massive changes a while back with the addition of unload on skill 3.

The majority might had been nerfed since launch . And yet , those 2 French teams used it to counter the established meta and win

The build worked out. But the video burnfall shows, as usual, is irrelevant.

I should congratulate the 2 teams , for moving the meta forward . I am looking forward to the no-stack-tournament in July .My boyfriend seem kinda happy atm, and i am going to ''punish'' him later for the giggles:)

A thief player who doesnt loathe condi thief? Preposterous.

Its not entirely irrelevant .

It is
entirely
irrelevant. The build wasnt good, since then we had a complete overhaul of not just the trait system, but also conditions as a whole. Skill 3 saw numerous changes, skill 4 a couple, and at that point in time people had yet to figure out how to easily stop Shadow Refuge (why do you think noone uses it anymore) and CnD (why do you think D/D thief fell off the face of the earth). And thats not even getting into how cherrypicked the video is.

The Sustain was not on par with the current meta (especially the warrior) , based on the video . And thieves had multiply nerfs since then

Funny thing that. Sustain on Warrior was actually much better. Healing Signet was nerfed several times since then. Adrenal Healing was nerfed, and you dont get free healing power from traits anymore. Thats just another sign that the video is cherrypicked. Oh and, P/D condi thief specifically was never nerfed. Just buffed. Over and Over.

But people in the tournaments used the Shadow refuge . In solo que , you cant cordinate with stranger , that why is not used .CND was also used from 2 French teams to win the tournaments .

If we look other classes like Memsers and the rest on the video , we can see the the Vanilia was a less sustain that the current .So if P/D dagger thieve had problems before , it wouldn't make it to the ''now'' era and win vs all the Bunker meta was we are plagued .I mean , that some spec went under the radar , because people are so fixed about what streamers are doing

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@Burnfall.9573 said:

@"Leonidrex.5649" said:you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

UNOwen, pull up my history as evidence with main Thief Profession Players who knows me well enough. I've been calling out for Thief Profession to be redesigned and speaking the honest Truth that nerfing them will not change anything and i use History to prove just that.

Im well aware of your history. Your bias, your irrational hatred of thief, and the fact that despite how much you obsess with the class, you dont seem to care to research anything about it.

I realized that nerfing Thief Profession will do more hard than good to the player experience

Ill believe that when pigs fly.

I do support other Thief Profession constructive suggestions as to how put Thief back into line, being a healthy competitive Profession. Why not? I Same way that i am very Passionate about Necromancer and Mesmer Profession, they deserve that same chance.

Please. You want to remove anything thief has without compensation. Your idea of a "healthy" thief is a useless thief.

My suggestions as the way they have always been before (look up my history), is for Anet to deal with the core root problems than everything else will follow.

Im aware of your suggestions. They fix "core problems" that arent problems, and are almost all terrible suggestions to the point where I question if youve ever played a single game of thief.

Why do we constantly have to deal with the same repetitive problems from 8,7,6,5,4,3,2 years ago? That is the key!!

We dont. I mean I guess sometimes a problem repeats, bunker builds, Necro being unkillable, things like that. But for the most part, we get new troubles.

Shouldn't History be used as a tool to help us learn, improve and to prevent past problems from surfing again?

Shouldn't History be used as a tool to help us decrease Toxicity and to hopefully remove it all together?

Shouldn't History be used to create new growth, new ideas with new visions?

Big talk for someone who doesnt learn from history.

This is what i stand for and this is what i continue to address without sugar-coating the Truth

You dont care for the truth. If you cared for the truth you wouldnt constantly spam misleading videos and make grandious essays that obfuscate the fact that youre talking utter nonsense.

Thief Profession should've been in much healthier state with having new designs with new improvisation and it deserves it including its passionate players.

Thief doesnt need a redesign. Thief doesnt even really need any changes. Out of combat stealth does, but thief is far from the only culprit there (your beloved Mesmer for a long time was a bigger problem there).

I've always said this, i Sympathize Thief Profession for being solely designed as Toxic,to do harm, wrong than good. I've always stood by Thief Profession players in game and defend them against other Toxic Professions (see my recent history experiences) because it is not their fault, they don't deserve to be treated unfairly.

"Toxic". You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think means. Thief was not designed to be "toxic". It was designed to represent the tricky, underhanded approach. They achieve what other classes achieve by indirect methods. Indirect defense, indirect offense, yadda yadda. There are only 2 problems that came to be with thief. Out of combat stealth, but again, thats a general problem. And in sPvP exclusively, Shortbow 5. It gave Thief unparalleled mobility. And if thief has both that and is the best duelist, things break. But you never talk about shortbow 5. No you talk about actively bad things like in-combat stealth and other such nonsense.

Designing a Profession to do Toxicity bidding is wrong because Thief Profession are worth more than that....it is part of the team.

Intentionally designing a (Judas complex) Profession just for financial mean and with other mean, is cruel at the most. Which is why i will not remain silent until Thief Profession is in a better place

Please, the "better place" you envision for thief is in the trash.

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@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

In the other hand he might say , that specific spec existed since launch . People where fixated about what the streamers are using atm .While some other like those French teams , thought outside the box and used that WvWvW spec

Every combination of weapons has existed since launch. Doesnt mean that they were good, nor that they were unchanged. In case of P/D, neither is the case. It wasnt a good weaponset for a very long time, and it saw massive changes a while back with the addition of unload on skill 3.

The majority might had been nerfed since launch . And yet , those 2 French teams used it to counter the established meta and win

The build worked out. But the video burnfall shows, as usual, is irrelevant.

I should congratulate the 2 teams , for moving the meta forward . I am looking forward to the no-stack-tournament in July .My boyfriend seem kinda happy atm, and i am going to ''punish'' him later for the giggles:)

A thief player who doesnt loathe condi thief? Preposterous.

Its not entirely irrelevant .

It is
entirely
irrelevant. The build wasnt good, since then we had a complete overhaul of not just the trait system, but also conditions as a whole. Skill 3 saw numerous changes, skill 4 a couple, and at that point in time people had yet to figure out how to easily stop Shadow Refuge (why do you think noone uses it anymore) and CnD (why do you think D/D thief fell off the face of the earth). And thats not even getting into how cherrypicked the video is.

The Sustain was not on par with the current meta (especially the warrior) , based on the video . And thieves had multiply nerfs since then

Funny thing that. Sustain on Warrior was actually much better. Healing Signet was nerfed several times since then. Adrenal Healing was nerfed, and you dont get free healing power from traits anymore. Thats just another sign that the video is cherrypicked. Oh and, P/D condi thief specifically was never nerfed. Just buffed. Over and Over.

But people in the tournaments used the Shadow refuge . In solo que , you cant cordinate with stranger , that why is not used .CND was also used from 2 French teams to win the tournaments .

If we look other classes like Memsers and the rest on the video , we can see the the Vanilia was a less sustain that the current .So if P/D dagger thieve had problems before , it wouldn't make it to the ''now'' era and win vs all the Bunker meta was we are plagued .I mean , that some spec went under the radar , because people are so fixed about what streamers are doing

Absolutely not true. Shadow Refuge is amazing for stealthing the entire team to begin a game. And it's also not like you can't simply type out your plans as the match begins or between spawns. Shadow Refuge isn't used because Shadow Refuge is absolutely terrible and any thief inside will get absolutely destroyed by AoE from literally every other profession just to go into stealth for like 10 seconds. Not to mention every other profession that has PBAoE reveal like necros and engineers that would laugh in the face of a thief that just went into shadow refuge and got revealed in less than 2 seconds. It turns you into a deer in headlights as you're getting absolutely hammered and have only two options: To stay in the stealth field and get downed, or to bounce and get revealed for 3 seconds where you'll likely also die. I promise you nobody outside of silver uses Shadow Refuge because of every option a thief has, a 60 second CD that functions as a death trap is not the route you want to go in a game so methodical and fast paced now.

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@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@"Leonidrex.5649" said:you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

In the other hand he might say , that specific spec existed since launch . People where fixated about what the streamers are using atm .While some other like those French teams , thought outside the box and used that WvWvW spec

Every combination of weapons has existed since launch. Doesnt mean that they were good, nor that they were unchanged. In case of P/D, neither is the case. It wasnt a good weaponset for a very long time, and it saw massive changes a while back with the addition of unload on skill 3.

The majority might had been nerfed since launch . And yet , those 2 French teams used it to counter the established meta and win

The build worked out. But the video burnfall shows, as usual, is irrelevant.

I should congratulate the 2 teams , for moving the meta forward . I am looking forward to the no-stack-tournament in July .My boyfriend seem kinda happy atm, and i am going to ''punish'' him later for the giggles:)

A thief player who doesnt loathe condi thief? Preposterous.

Its not entirely irrelevant .

It is
entirely
irrelevant. The build wasnt good, since then we had a complete overhaul of not just the trait system, but also conditions as a whole. Skill 3 saw numerous changes, skill 4 a couple, and at that point in time people had yet to figure out how to easily stop Shadow Refuge (why do you think noone uses it anymore) and CnD (why do you think D/D thief fell off the face of the earth). And thats not even getting into how cherrypicked the video is.

The Sustain was not on par with the current meta (especially the warrior) , based on the video . And thieves had multiply nerfs since then

Funny thing that. Sustain on Warrior was actually much better. Healing Signet was nerfed several times since then. Adrenal Healing was nerfed, and you dont get free healing power from traits anymore. Thats just another sign that the video is cherrypicked. Oh and, P/D condi thief specifically was never nerfed. Just buffed. Over and Over.

But people in the tournaments used the Shadow refuge . In solo que , you cant cordinate with stranger , that why is not used .CND was also used from 2 French teams to win the tournaments .

Did they? Oh they probably were using the shadow field combo since the stealth attack has 100% projectile finisher. No the reason Shadow Refuge isnt used isnt "because you cant coordinate with strangers" (you can, thats why you smoke field + blast people in solo Q). Its because its bad. Plop down a shadow refuge, and you just signal to your enemies "Chuck AoEs here and we will drop like flies". And for out of combat stealthing up, Smoke field + blast is just better.

If we look other classes like Memsers and the rest on the video , we can see the the Vanilia was a less sustain that the current .So if P/D dagger thieve had problems before , it wouldn't make it to the ''now'' era and win vs all the Bunker meta was we are plagued .I mean , that some spec went under the radar , because people are so fixed about what streamers are doing

Dunno about all the classes, but nah, Mesmers sustained used to be way better. Its no comparision. And condis used to be way worse. As I said, the video is irrelevant, the build, the systems and the enemies have nothing in common with right now.

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"Leonidrex.5649" said:you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

In the other hand he might say , that specific spec existed since launch . People where fixated about what the streamers are using atm .While some other like those French teams , thought outside the box and used that WvWvW spec

Every combination of weapons has existed since launch. Doesnt mean that they were good, nor that they were unchanged. In case of P/D, neither is the case. It wasnt a good weaponset for a very long time, and it saw massive changes a while back with the addition of unload on skill 3.

The majority might had been nerfed since launch . And yet , those 2 French teams used it to counter the established meta and win

The build worked out. But the video burnfall shows, as usual, is irrelevant.

I should congratulate the 2 teams , for moving the meta forward . I am looking forward to the no-stack-tournament in July .My boyfriend seem kinda happy atm, and i am going to ''punish'' him later for the giggles:)

A thief player who doesnt loathe condi thief? Preposterous.

Its not entirely irrelevant .

It is
entirely
irrelevant. The build wasnt good, since then we had a complete overhaul of not just the trait system, but also conditions as a whole. Skill 3 saw numerous changes, skill 4 a couple, and at that point in time people had yet to figure out how to easily stop Shadow Refuge (why do you think noone uses it anymore) and CnD (why do you think D/D thief fell off the face of the earth). And thats not even getting into how cherrypicked the video is.

The Sustain was not on par with the current meta (especially the warrior) , based on the video . And thieves had multiply nerfs since then

Funny thing that. Sustain on Warrior was actually much better. Healing Signet was nerfed several times since then. Adrenal Healing was nerfed, and you dont get free healing power from traits anymore. Thats just another sign that the video is cherrypicked. Oh and, P/D condi thief specifically was never nerfed. Just buffed. Over and Over.

But people in the tournaments used the Shadow refuge . In solo que , you cant cordinate with stranger , that why is not used .CND was also used from 2 French teams to win the tournaments .

Did they? Oh they probably were using the shadow field combo since the stealth attack has 100% projectile finisher. No the reason Shadow Refuge isnt used isnt "because you cant coordinate with strangers" (you can, thats why you smoke field + blast people in solo Q). Its because its bad. Plop down a shadow refuge, and you just signal to your enemies "Chuck AoEs here and we will drop like flies". And for out of combat stealthing up, Smoke field + blast is just better.

If we look other classes like Memsers and the rest on the video , we can see the the Vanilia was a less sustain that the current .So if P/D dagger thieve had problems before , it wouldn't make it to the ''now'' era and win vs all the Bunker meta was we are plagued .I mean , that some spec went under the radar , because people are so fixed about what streamers are doing

Dunno about all the classes, but nah, Mesmers sustained used to be way better. Its no comparision. And condis used to be way worse. As I said, the video is irrelevant, the build, the systems and the enemies have nothing in common with right now.

But the video is kinda relevant . The majority of thieves only got nerfed all these years while the sustain was increased dramatically .That means there are even more hidden old PvP/WvWvW specs to be used again . And we should not get fixed on what the streamers are doing .Just like 2 French teams -un baquet de fromaz

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@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@"Leonidrex.5649" said:you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

In the other hand he might say , that specific spec existed since launch . People where fixated about what the streamers are using atm .While some other like those French teams , thought outside the box and used that WvWvW spec

Every combination of weapons has existed since launch. Doesnt mean that they were good, nor that they were unchanged. In case of P/D, neither is the case. It wasnt a good weaponset for a very long time, and it saw massive changes a while back with the addition of unload on skill 3.

The majority might had been nerfed since launch . And yet , those 2 French teams used it to counter the established meta and win

The build worked out. But the video burnfall shows, as usual, is irrelevant.

I should congratulate the 2 teams , for moving the meta forward . I am looking forward to the no-stack-tournament in July .My boyfriend seem kinda happy atm, and i am going to ''punish'' him later for the giggles:)

A thief player who doesnt loathe condi thief? Preposterous.

Its not entirely irrelevant .

It is
entirely
irrelevant. The build wasnt good, since then we had a complete overhaul of not just the trait system, but also conditions as a whole. Skill 3 saw numerous changes, skill 4 a couple, and at that point in time people had yet to figure out how to easily stop Shadow Refuge (why do you think noone uses it anymore) and CnD (why do you think D/D thief fell off the face of the earth). And thats not even getting into how cherrypicked the video is.

The Sustain was not on par with the current meta (especially the warrior) , based on the video . And thieves had multiply nerfs since then

Funny thing that. Sustain on Warrior was actually much better. Healing Signet was nerfed several times since then. Adrenal Healing was nerfed, and you dont get free healing power from traits anymore. Thats just another sign that the video is cherrypicked. Oh and, P/D condi thief specifically was never nerfed. Just buffed. Over and Over.

But people in the tournaments used the Shadow refuge . In solo que , you cant cordinate with stranger , that why is not used .CND was also used from 2 French teams to win the tournaments .

Did they? Oh they probably were using the shadow field combo since the stealth attack has 100% projectile finisher. No the reason Shadow Refuge isnt used isnt "because you cant coordinate with strangers" (you can, thats why you smoke field + blast people in solo Q). Its because its bad. Plop down a shadow refuge, and you just signal to your enemies "Chuck AoEs here and we will drop like flies". And for out of combat stealthing up, Smoke field + blast is just better.

If we look other classes like Memsers and the rest on the video , we can see the the Vanilia was a less sustain that the current .So if P/D dagger thieve had problems before , it wouldn't make it to the ''now'' era and win vs all the Bunker meta was we are plagued .I mean , that some spec went under the radar , because people are so fixed about what streamers are doing

Dunno about all the classes, but nah, Mesmers sustained used to be way better. Its no comparision. And condis used to be way worse. As I said, the video is irrelevant, the build, the systems and the enemies have nothing in common with right now.

But the video is kinda relevant . The majority of thieves only got nerfed all these years while the sustain was increased dramatically .That means there are even more hidden old PvP/WvWvW specs to be used again . And we should not get fixed on what the streamers are doing .Just like 2 French teams -un baquet de fromaz

Its irrelevant. It shows nothing of value in any way shape or form. It shows a build that doesnt exist anymore, using traits that work completely different now, relying on conditions that work completely different now, against enemies that are completely different. It wasnt a "hidden old spec". The new P/D, the one that is completely different, people were aware of it. But it has been generally dismissed due to the abundance of condi cleanses. It seems people in this tournament were unprepared.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

Burnfall is linking videos from 2013 attempting to talk about the state of thief today. If Burnfall wanted to contribute to the conversation that we're having then Burnfall can post a video of thief from within the past 2 months. But from 7 years ago? nah not on this post.

nothing changed design wise from 2013, if anything its even worse due to dagger storm. He complains about design, I find Initiative as one of the worst designed thing ever personally.

I mean just the fact that traits were shuffled around completely changed. Or that acrobatics got a lot worse. And eh, initiative is actually a pretty neat design, its the implementation that falls behind. Most builds only have one, maybe 2 buttons worth pressing, which makes thief combat-wise a one-trick pony. Costs are also so prohibitively high that you cant use many skills, so your damage has to come mostly from autoattacks.

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@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@"Leonidrex.5649" said:you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

In the other hand he might say , that specific spec existed since launch . People where fixated about what the streamers are using atm .While some other like those French teams , thought outside the box and used that WvWvW spec

Every combination of weapons has existed since launch. Doesnt mean that they were good, nor that they were unchanged. In case of P/D, neither is the case. It wasnt a good weaponset for a very long time, and it saw massive changes a while back with the addition of unload on skill 3.

The majority might had been nerfed since launch . And yet , those 2 French teams used it to counter the established meta and win

The build worked out. But the video burnfall shows, as usual, is irrelevant.

I should congratulate the 2 teams , for moving the meta forward . I am looking forward to the no-stack-tournament in July .My boyfriend seem kinda happy atm, and i am going to ''punish'' him later for the giggles:)

A thief player who doesnt loathe condi thief? Preposterous.

Its not entirely irrelevant .

It is
entirely
irrelevant. The build wasnt good, since then we had a complete overhaul of not just the trait system, but also conditions as a whole. Skill 3 saw numerous changes, skill 4 a couple, and at that point in time people had yet to figure out how to easily stop Shadow Refuge (why do you think noone uses it anymore) and CnD (why do you think D/D thief fell off the face of the earth). And thats not even getting into how cherrypicked the video is.

The Sustain was not on par with the current meta (especially the warrior) , based on the video . And thieves had multiply nerfs since then

Funny thing that. Sustain on Warrior was actually much better. Healing Signet was nerfed several times since then. Adrenal Healing was nerfed, and you dont get free healing power from traits anymore. Thats just another sign that the video is cherrypicked. Oh and, P/D condi thief specifically was never nerfed. Just buffed. Over and Over.

But people in the tournaments used the Shadow refuge . In solo que , you cant cordinate with stranger , that why is not used .CND was also used from 2 French teams to win the tournaments .

Did they? Oh they probably were using the shadow field combo since the stealth attack has 100% projectile finisher. No the reason Shadow Refuge isnt used isnt "because you cant coordinate with strangers" (you can, thats why you smoke field + blast people in solo Q). Its because its bad. Plop down a shadow refuge, and you just signal to your enemies "Chuck AoEs here and we will drop like flies". And for out of combat stealthing up, Smoke field + blast is just better.

If we look other classes like Memsers and the rest on the video , we can see the the Vanilia was a less sustain that the current .So if P/D dagger thieve had problems before , it wouldn't make it to the ''now'' era and win vs all the Bunker meta was we are plagued .I mean , that some spec went under the radar , because people are so fixed about what streamers are doing

Dunno about all the classes, but nah, Mesmers sustained used to be way better. Its no comparision. And condis used to be way worse. As I said, the video is irrelevant, the build, the systems and the enemies have nothing in common with right now.

But the video is kinda relevant . The majority of thieves only got nerfed all these years while the sustain was increased dramatically .That means there are even more hidden old PvP/WvWvW specs to be used again . And we should not get fixed on what the streamers are doing .Just like 2 French teams -un baquet

Sustain has not been increased dramatically. It just seems that way because damage for other classes has been somewhat stifled. While you have a point that people shouldn't get attached to what the streamers are doing, that really doesn't mean that they're representative of the entire thief player base. For example, Vallun and Sindrener are THE thief streamers because they play at a level far past most other thieves on GW2. Saying that just because the streamers are doing something doesnt mean that the rest of the thief players are also doing that because most people would be streamers themselves if they were doing what Vallun and Sindrener were doing. Furthermore, sustain has not been increased dramatically for thief. If anything, it's been cut even more but because of the current bunker meta that we're in, other professions aren't running builds that are punishing the poor state that thief sustain is in. Thief still has one of the lowest, if not the lowest sustainability's in GW2.

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"Leonidrex.5649" said:you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

In the other hand he might say , that specific spec existed since launch . People where fixated about what the streamers are using atm .While some other like those French teams , thought outside the box and used that WvWvW spec

Every combination of weapons has existed since launch. Doesnt mean that they were good, nor that they were unchanged. In case of P/D, neither is the case. It wasnt a good weaponset for a very long time, and it saw massive changes a while back with the addition of unload on skill 3.

The majority might had been nerfed since launch . And yet , those 2 French teams used it to counter the established meta and win

The build worked out. But the video burnfall shows, as usual, is irrelevant.

I should congratulate the 2 teams , for moving the meta forward . I am looking forward to the no-stack-tournament in July .My boyfriend seem kinda happy atm, and i am going to ''punish'' him later for the giggles:)

A thief player who doesnt loathe condi thief? Preposterous.

Its not entirely irrelevant .

It is
entirely
irrelevant. The build wasnt good, since then we had a complete overhaul of not just the trait system, but also conditions as a whole. Skill 3 saw numerous changes, skill 4 a couple, and at that point in time people had yet to figure out how to easily stop Shadow Refuge (why do you think noone uses it anymore) and CnD (why do you think D/D thief fell off the face of the earth). And thats not even getting into how cherrypicked the video is.

The Sustain was not on par with the current meta (especially the warrior) , based on the video . And thieves had multiply nerfs since then

Funny thing that. Sustain on Warrior was actually much better. Healing Signet was nerfed several times since then. Adrenal Healing was nerfed, and you dont get free healing power from traits anymore. Thats just another sign that the video is cherrypicked. Oh and, P/D condi thief specifically was never nerfed. Just buffed. Over and Over.

But people in the tournaments used the Shadow refuge . In solo que , you cant cordinate with stranger , that why is not used .CND was also used from 2 French teams to win the tournaments .

Did they? Oh they probably were using the shadow field combo since the stealth attack has 100% projectile finisher. No the reason Shadow Refuge isnt used isnt "because you cant coordinate with strangers" (you can, thats why you smoke field + blast people in solo Q). Its because its bad. Plop down a shadow refuge, and you just signal to your enemies "Chuck AoEs here and we will drop like flies". And for out of combat stealthing up, Smoke field + blast is just better.

If we look other classes like Memsers and the rest on the video , we can see the the Vanilia was a less sustain that the current .So if P/D dagger thieve had problems before , it wouldn't make it to the ''now'' era and win vs all the Bunker meta was we are plagued .I mean , that some spec went under the radar , because people are so fixed about what streamers are doing

Dunno about all the classes, but nah, Mesmers sustained used to be way better. Its no comparision. And condis used to be way worse. As I said, the video is irrelevant, the build, the systems and the enemies have nothing in common with right now.

But the video is kinda relevant . The majority of thieves only got nerfed all these years while the sustain was increased dramatically .That means there are even more hidden old PvP/WvWvW specs to be used again . And we should not get fixed on what the streamers are doing .Just like 2 French teams -un baquet de fromaz

Its irrelevant. It shows
nothing
of value in any way shape or form. It shows a build that doesnt exist anymore, using traits that work completely different now, relying on conditions that work completely different now, against enemies that are completely different. It wasnt a "hidden old spec". The new P/D, the one that is completely different, people were aware of it. But it has been generally dismissed due to the abundance of condi cleanses. It seems people in this tournament were unprepared.

The tactic of go near and CND for stealth and then unload the channeling auto attack , or use the 3rd attack to run away from meeles , haven't changed much since that video .Guardians+ Eles (or any1 else) , shouldn't had been unprepared after they die for the 3rd time .They are pros , they know how to adapt to an old spec

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@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@"Leonidrex.5649" said:you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

In the other hand he might say , that specific spec existed since launch . People where fixated about what the streamers are using atm .While some other like those French teams , thought outside the box and used that WvWvW spec

Every combination of weapons has existed since launch. Doesnt mean that they were good, nor that they were unchanged. In case of P/D, neither is the case. It wasnt a good weaponset for a very long time, and it saw massive changes a while back with the addition of unload on skill 3.

The majority might had been nerfed since launch . And yet , those 2 French teams used it to counter the established meta and win

The build worked out. But the video burnfall shows, as usual, is irrelevant.

I should congratulate the 2 teams , for moving the meta forward . I am looking forward to the no-stack-tournament in July .My boyfriend seem kinda happy atm, and i am going to ''punish'' him later for the giggles:)

A thief player who doesnt loathe condi thief? Preposterous.

Its not entirely irrelevant .

It is
entirely
irrelevant. The build wasnt good, since then we had a complete overhaul of not just the trait system, but also conditions as a whole. Skill 3 saw numerous changes, skill 4 a couple, and at that point in time people had yet to figure out how to easily stop Shadow Refuge (why do you think noone uses it anymore) and CnD (why do you think D/D thief fell off the face of the earth). And thats not even getting into how cherrypicked the video is.

The Sustain was not on par with the current meta (especially the warrior) , based on the video . And thieves had multiply nerfs since then

Funny thing that. Sustain on Warrior was actually much better. Healing Signet was nerfed several times since then. Adrenal Healing was nerfed, and you dont get free healing power from traits anymore. Thats just another sign that the video is cherrypicked. Oh and, P/D condi thief specifically was never nerfed. Just buffed. Over and Over.

But people in the tournaments used the Shadow refuge . In solo que , you cant cordinate with stranger , that why is not used .CND was also used from 2 French teams to win the tournaments .

Did they? Oh they probably were using the shadow field combo since the stealth attack has 100% projectile finisher. No the reason Shadow Refuge isnt used isnt "because you cant coordinate with strangers" (you can, thats why you smoke field + blast people in solo Q). Its because its bad. Plop down a shadow refuge, and you just signal to your enemies "Chuck AoEs here and we will drop like flies". And for out of combat stealthing up, Smoke field + blast is just better.

If we look other classes like Memsers and the rest on the video , we can see the the Vanilia was a less sustain that the current .So if P/D dagger thieve had problems before , it wouldn't make it to the ''now'' era and win vs all the Bunker meta was we are plagued .I mean , that some spec went under the radar , because people are so fixed about what streamers are doing

Dunno about all the classes, but nah, Mesmers sustained used to be way better. Its no comparision. And condis used to be way worse. As I said, the video is irrelevant, the build, the systems and the enemies have nothing in common with right now.

But the video is kinda relevant . The majority of thieves only got nerfed all these years while the sustain was increased dramatically .That means there are even more hidden old PvP/WvWvW specs to be used again . And we should not get fixed on what the streamers are doing .Just like 2 French teams -un baquet de fromaz

Its irrelevant. It shows
nothing
of value in any way shape or form. It shows a build that doesnt exist anymore, using traits that work completely different now, relying on conditions that work completely different now, against enemies that are completely different. It wasnt a "hidden old spec". The new P/D, the one that is completely different, people were aware of it. But it has been generally dismissed due to the abundance of condi cleanses. It seems people in this tournament were unprepared.

The tactic of go near and CND for stealth and then unload the channeling auto attack , or use the 3rd attack to run away from meeles , haven't changed much since that video .

Except for the tiny detail, where that isnt the strategy. You dont really use CnD anymore. You use skill 3 then unload. Things have changed a lot.

Guardians+ Eles (or any1 else) , shouldn't had been unprepared after they die for the 3rd time .They are pros , they know how to adapt

You cant swap builds mid-game. Thats how they were unprepared.

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"Leonidrex.5649" said:you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

In the other hand he might say , that specific spec existed since launch . People where fixated about what the streamers are using atm .While some other like those French teams , thought outside the box and used that WvWvW spec

Every combination of weapons has existed since launch. Doesnt mean that they were good, nor that they were unchanged. In case of P/D, neither is the case. It wasnt a good weaponset for a very long time, and it saw massive changes a while back with the addition of unload on skill 3.

The majority might had been nerfed since launch . And yet , those 2 French teams used it to counter the established meta and win

The build worked out. But the video burnfall shows, as usual, is irrelevant.

I should congratulate the 2 teams , for moving the meta forward . I am looking forward to the no-stack-tournament in July .My boyfriend seem kinda happy atm, and i am going to ''punish'' him later for the giggles:)

A thief player who doesnt loathe condi thief? Preposterous.

Its not entirely irrelevant .

It is
entirely
irrelevant. The build wasnt good, since then we had a complete overhaul of not just the trait system, but also conditions as a whole. Skill 3 saw numerous changes, skill 4 a couple, and at that point in time people had yet to figure out how to easily stop Shadow Refuge (why do you think noone uses it anymore) and CnD (why do you think D/D thief fell off the face of the earth). And thats not even getting into how cherrypicked the video is.

The Sustain was not on par with the current meta (especially the warrior) , based on the video . And thieves had multiply nerfs since then

Funny thing that. Sustain on Warrior was actually much better. Healing Signet was nerfed several times since then. Adrenal Healing was nerfed, and you dont get free healing power from traits anymore. Thats just another sign that the video is cherrypicked. Oh and, P/D condi thief specifically was never nerfed. Just buffed. Over and Over.

But people in the tournaments used the Shadow refuge . In solo que , you cant cordinate with stranger , that why is not used .CND was also used from 2 French teams to win the tournaments .

Did they? Oh they probably were using the shadow field combo since the stealth attack has 100% projectile finisher. No the reason Shadow Refuge isnt used isnt "because you cant coordinate with strangers" (you can, thats why you smoke field + blast people in solo Q). Its because its bad. Plop down a shadow refuge, and you just signal to your enemies "Chuck AoEs here and we will drop like flies". And for out of combat stealthing up, Smoke field + blast is just better.

If we look other classes like Memsers and the rest on the video , we can see the the Vanilia was a less sustain that the current .So if P/D dagger thieve had problems before , it wouldn't make it to the ''now'' era and win vs all the Bunker meta was we are plagued .I mean , that some spec went under the radar , because people are so fixed about what streamers are doing

Dunno about all the classes, but nah, Mesmers sustained used to be way better. Its no comparision. And condis used to be way worse. As I said, the video is irrelevant, the build, the systems and the enemies have nothing in common with right now.

But the video is kinda relevant . The majority of thieves only got nerfed all these years while the sustain was increased dramatically .That means there are even more hidden old PvP/WvWvW specs to be used again . And we should not get fixed on what the streamers are doing .Just like 2 French teams -un baquet de fromaz

Its irrelevant. It shows
nothing
of value in any way shape or form. It shows a build that doesnt exist anymore, using traits that work completely different now, relying on conditions that work completely different now, against enemies that are completely different. It wasnt a "hidden old spec". The new P/D, the one that is completely different, people were aware of it. But it has been generally dismissed due to the abundance of condi cleanses. It seems people in this tournament were unprepared.

The tactic of go near and CND for stealth and then unload the channeling auto attack , or use the 3rd attack to run away from meeles , haven't changed much since that video .

Except for the tiny detail, where that isnt the strategy. You dont really use CnD anymore. You use skill 3 then unload. Things have changed a lot.

Guardians+ Eles (or any1 else) , shouldn't had been unprepared after they die for the 3rd time .They are pros , they know how to adapt

You cant swap builds mid-game. Thats how they were unprepared.

You can change class (or duplicate of the same class , with slight deviation or a newly character with its ultimate ready to be used (Time Wrap)) ... ehem ...i mean you get dc .... ofc ...(why streamers get dc from the game also , when a player change class ?)

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@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@"Leonidrex.5649" said:you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

In the other hand he might say , that specific spec existed since launch . People where fixated about what the streamers are using atm .While some other like those French teams , thought outside the box and used that WvWvW spec

Every combination of weapons has existed since launch. Doesnt mean that they were good, nor that they were unchanged. In case of P/D, neither is the case. It wasnt a good weaponset for a very long time, and it saw massive changes a while back with the addition of unload on skill 3.

The majority might had been nerfed since launch . And yet , those 2 French teams used it to counter the established meta and win

The build worked out. But the video burnfall shows, as usual, is irrelevant.

I should congratulate the 2 teams , for moving the meta forward . I am looking forward to the no-stack-tournament in July .My boyfriend seem kinda happy atm, and i am going to ''punish'' him later for the giggles:)

A thief player who doesnt loathe condi thief? Preposterous.

Its not entirely irrelevant .

It is
entirely
irrelevant. The build wasnt good, since then we had a complete overhaul of not just the trait system, but also conditions as a whole. Skill 3 saw numerous changes, skill 4 a couple, and at that point in time people had yet to figure out how to easily stop Shadow Refuge (why do you think noone uses it anymore) and CnD (why do you think D/D thief fell off the face of the earth). And thats not even getting into how cherrypicked the video is.

The Sustain was not on par with the current meta (especially the warrior) , based on the video . And thieves had multiply nerfs since then

Funny thing that. Sustain on Warrior was actually much better. Healing Signet was nerfed several times since then. Adrenal Healing was nerfed, and you dont get free healing power from traits anymore. Thats just another sign that the video is cherrypicked. Oh and, P/D condi thief specifically was never nerfed. Just buffed. Over and Over.

But people in the tournaments used the Shadow refuge . In solo que , you cant cordinate with stranger , that why is not used .CND was also used from 2 French teams to win the tournaments .

Did they? Oh they probably were using the shadow field combo since the stealth attack has 100% projectile finisher. No the reason Shadow Refuge isnt used isnt "because you cant coordinate with strangers" (you can, thats why you smoke field + blast people in solo Q). Its because its bad. Plop down a shadow refuge, and you just signal to your enemies "Chuck AoEs here and we will drop like flies". And for out of combat stealthing up, Smoke field + blast is just better.

If we look other classes like Memsers and the rest on the video , we can see the the Vanilia was a less sustain that the current .So if P/D dagger thieve had problems before , it wouldn't make it to the ''now'' era and win vs all the Bunker meta was we are plagued .I mean , that some spec went under the radar , because people are so fixed about what streamers are doing

Dunno about all the classes, but nah, Mesmers sustained used to be way better. Its no comparision. And condis used to be way worse. As I said, the video is irrelevant, the build, the systems and the enemies have nothing in common with right now.

But the video is kinda relevant . The majority of thieves only got nerfed all these years while the sustain was increased dramatically .That means there are even more hidden old PvP/WvWvW specs to be used again . And we should not get fixed on what the streamers are doing .Just like 2 French teams -un baquet de fromaz

Its irrelevant. It shows
nothing
of value in any way shape or form. It shows a build that doesnt exist anymore, using traits that work completely different now, relying on conditions that work completely different now, against enemies that are completely different. It wasnt a "hidden old spec". The new P/D, the one that is completely different, people were aware of it. But it has been generally dismissed due to the abundance of condi cleanses. It seems people in this tournament were unprepared.

The tactic of go near and CND for stealth and then unload the channeling auto attack , or use the 3rd attack to run away from meeles , haven't changed much since that video .

Except for the tiny detail, where that isnt the strategy. You dont really use CnD anymore. You use skill 3 then unload. Things have changed a lot.

Guardians+ Eles (or any1 else) , shouldn't had been unprepared after they die for the 3rd time .They are pros , they know how to adapt

You cant swap builds mid-game. Thats how they were unprepared.

You can change class (or duplicate of the same class , with slight deviation or a newly character with its ultimate ready to be used (Time Wrap)) ... ehem ...i mean you get dc .... ofc ...(why streamers get dc from the game also , when a player change class ?)

Only before the game starts. If you have no idea their thief is a condi thief, that isnt an option.

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