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Your entitlement to my LFG requirements


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@Shikaru.7618 said:No thanks, I'll stick to the people that have LI. There are people like you who will make all welcome squads to teach them.

I still think using LI is not the best concept, its better than AP though, or the glory days of outright banning classes. I have over 30LI myself and when i see those requirements i just laugh. Im not the best player out there, i do slightly above average DPS(or so ive been told by the raid comms ive been with.) but the LI requirements tend to make me shy away from joining the group, even if its low.

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@Dante.1763 said:

@Shikaru.7618 said:No thanks, I'll stick to the people that have LI. There are people like you who will make all welcome squads to teach them.

I still think using LI is not the best concept, its better than AP though, or the glory days of outright banning classes. I have over 30LI myself and when i see those requirements i just laugh. Im not the best player out there, i do slightly above average DPS(or so ive been told by the raid comms ive been with.) but the LI requirements tend to make me shy away from joining the group, even if its low.

That's perfectly ok. You recognize that my group doesnt fit your needs and opt out. The system is working as intended. It's no sweat off your back if I'm stuck in lfg for 5 minutes longer.

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@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@Firebeard.1746 said:This is kind of a hilarious thread. Y'all realize that other MMOs get their raids reset regularly, right? So like if you're behind on say, EP and you come in late that tier, in WoW you can catch up as much as you can through other means and when the next tier hits, you're on the same level more or less as everyone else, so people can't ask for KP, etc before letting you in to groups at the beginning of the new tier. GW2 has this unique issue where there isn't really anything resetting anyone's progress and no content is ever outdated per se.

Not resetting progress means that there's no natural way that new players to jump into the content with experienced ones to allow for any kind of mixing. This is an issue with Strikes as well right now, they're starting to stratify just like raids (maybe not as bad, because plenty of people like me seem willing to PuG in a more casual manner and we still
GASP
actually succeed), but it's still a problem nonetheless that people are asking for KP in beginning group content. When I was learning boneskinner before EotN I actually didn't kick noob players I had in my group for this reason: I wanted them to have a good experience with the player base. That was probably my worst boneskinner clear ever and took longer, but I don't regret it at all for the impact it had on the new player who was fawning about how fun it was.

This "I just want my rewards and other people are a means of getting it" mentality is just becoming a symptom of the way progress works in high-end PVE content. I mean that's really what you're saying when you make LFGs like that, you're not willing to teach anyone else. Which is just as toxic as not being willing to try/learn new things. And makes the community seem unfriendly. Maybe that's why blow-out metas are the most popular content in the game. just sayin' some of you are the creators of your own problems...

EDIT: I want to make it clear that I like GW2's horizontal progression system, and I like that old content still has some value, it just brings its own challenges with it that neither the playerbase nor anet has done a good job of addressing.

There is a diference.If you see someone (you dont know) has a problem with math homework, you can decide to help him/her (in this example for free). This is you teaching strikes to new players. But at the same time you could go to a movie with friends.

When someone join strikes (with some lfg demands) without them, its like a kid that comes to you and give you his homework so you do it for him

And huge mistake you made is this: you asume that players ask for high requirements becausethey want loot fast. That is not always the case. I ask for high requirements (well, I only do strikEs with raid static but for same reason why I would ask for high requirements) because I dont care about the loot or kill.When I do strikes or raids, I want to have fun. And I have fun if players come together, they take responsibilities, they comunicate and they try to make every effort to not only kill the boss, but do so in as efective way as possible. We could just take anything, go there and kill it while talking about cats but then it would be ~10 minutes of a chore. Or we can wait 30 minutes doing something fun while waiting for one pug to join and ten have 5 minutes of fun.

Well in the long run if players aren't teaching new people, the number of people for your PuG will keep declining. The value of any mmo activity is in how much of the playet base it involves. If you take time to teach more people, you'll still get the fun you want, because you're communicating with them. Also, let's be real, there's usually less communication when people actually know what they're doing, and you're probably an outlier in the intent behind those high requirements.

I teach new raiders almost every week. But only when I want to.Also I guess you never played with experianced raiders. There is alot of comunication required. Who cc on which bar, who block which mechanic, who does. Who use pulls when, the order of timewarps....Alot of comunication required

I almost never see training runs going. If you're willing to help people that's great, i can tell you based on the ratio of training to non training runs in lfg, that my opinion of raiders (and community as it matures in any content) as a whole is that they have no desire to work with newer players/teach mechanics. If you're truly doing as you say my comments were in no way aimed at you.

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@Firebeard.1746 said:

@Firebeard.1746 said:This is kind of a hilarious thread. Y'all realize that other MMOs get their raids reset regularly, right? So like if you're behind on say, EP and you come in late that tier, in WoW you can catch up as much as you can through other means and when the next tier hits, you're on the same level more or less as everyone else, so people can't ask for KP, etc before letting you in to groups at the beginning of the new tier. GW2 has this unique issue where there isn't really anything resetting anyone's progress and no content is ever outdated per se.

Not resetting progress means that there's no natural way that new players to jump into the content with experienced ones to allow for any kind of mixing. This is an issue with Strikes as well right now, they're starting to stratify just like raids (maybe not as bad, because plenty of people like me seem willing to PuG in a more casual manner and we still
GASP
actually succeed), but it's still a problem nonetheless that people are asking for KP in beginning group content. When I was learning boneskinner before EotN I actually didn't kick noob players I had in my group for this reason: I wanted them to have a good experience with the player base. That was probably my worst boneskinner clear ever and took longer, but I don't regret it at all for the impact it had on the new player who was fawning about how fun it was.

This "I just want my rewards and other people are a means of getting it" mentality is just becoming a symptom of the way progress works in high-end PVE content. I mean that's really what you're saying when you make LFGs like that, you're not willing to teach anyone else. Which is just as toxic as not being willing to try/learn new things. And makes the community seem unfriendly. Maybe that's why blow-out metas are the most popular content in the game. just sayin' some of you are the creators of your own problems...

EDIT: I want to make it clear that I like GW2's horizontal progression system, and I like that old content still has some value, it just brings its own challenges with it that neither the playerbase nor anet has done a good job of addressing.

There is a diference.If you see someone (you dont know) has a problem with math homework, you can decide to help him/her (in this example for free). This is you teaching strikes to new players. But at the same time you could go to a movie with friends.

When someone join strikes (with some lfg demands) without them, its like a kid that comes to you and give you his homework so you do it for him

And huge mistake you made is this: you asume that players ask for high requirements becausethey want loot fast. That is not always the case. I ask for high requirements (well, I only do strikEs with raid static but for same reason why I would ask for high requirements) because I dont care about the loot or kill.When I do strikes or raids, I want to have fun. And I have fun if players come together, they take responsibilities, they comunicate and they try to make every effort to not only kill the boss, but do so in as efective way as possible. We could just take anything, go there and kill it while talking about cats but then it would be ~10 minutes of a chore. Or we can wait 30 minutes doing something fun while waiting for one pug to join and ten have 5 minutes of fun.

Well in the long run if players aren't teaching new people, the number of people for your PuG will keep declining. The value of any mmo activity is in how much of the playet base it involves. If you take time to teach more people, you'll still get the fun you want, because you're communicating with them. Also, let's be real, there's usually less communication when people actually know what they're doing, and you're probably an outlier in the intent behind those high requirements.

I teach new raiders almost every week. But only when I want to.Also I guess you never played with experianced raiders. There is alot of comunication required. Who cc on which bar, who block which mechanic, who does. Who use pulls when, the order of timewarps....Alot of comunication required

I almost never see training runs going. If you're willing to help people that's great, i can tell you based on the ratio of training to non training runs in lfg, that my opinion of raiders (and community as it matures in any content) as a whole is that they have no desire to work with newer players/teach mechanics. If you're truly doing as you say my comments were in no way aimed at you.

Don't wait for training runs in lfg, join Raid Academy. It's how I started until I found a guild in my timezone willing to train and run raids.

https://snowcrows.com/raids/training/

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@kiri.1467 said:

@Firebeard.1746 said:This is kind of a hilarious thread. Y'all realize that other MMOs get their raids reset regularly, right? So like if you're behind on say, EP and you come in late that tier, in WoW you can catch up as much as you can through other means and when the next tier hits, you're on the same level more or less as everyone else, so people can't ask for KP, etc before letting you in to groups at the beginning of the new tier. GW2 has this unique issue where there isn't really anything resetting anyone's progress and no content is ever outdated per se.

Not resetting progress means that there's no natural way that new players to jump into the content with experienced ones to allow for any kind of mixing. This is an issue with Strikes as well right now, they're starting to stratify just like raids (maybe not as bad, because plenty of people like me seem willing to PuG in a more casual manner and we still
GASP
actually succeed), but it's still a problem nonetheless that people are asking for KP in beginning group content. When I was learning boneskinner before EotN I actually didn't kick noob players I had in my group for this reason: I wanted them to have a good experience with the player base. That was probably my worst boneskinner clear ever and took longer, but I don't regret it at all for the impact it had on the new player who was fawning about how fun it was.

This "I just want my rewards and other people are a means of getting it" mentality is just becoming a symptom of the way progress works in high-end PVE content. I mean that's really what you're saying when you make LFGs like that, you're not willing to teach anyone else. Which is just as toxic as not being willing to try/learn new things. And makes the community seem unfriendly. Maybe that's why blow-out metas are the most popular content in the game. just sayin' some of you are the creators of your own problems...

EDIT: I want to make it clear that I like GW2's horizontal progression system, and I like that old content still has some value, it just brings its own challenges with it that neither the playerbase nor anet has done a good job of addressing.

There is a diference.If you see someone (you dont know) has a problem with math homework, you can decide to help him/her (in this example for free). This is you teaching strikes to new players. But at the same time you could go to a movie with friends.

When someone join strikes (with some lfg demands) without them, its like a kid that comes to you and give you his homework so you do it for him

And huge mistake you made is this: you asume that players ask for high requirements becausethey want loot fast. That is not always the case. I ask for high requirements (well, I only do strikEs with raid static but for same reason why I would ask for high requirements) because I dont care about the loot or kill.When I do strikes or raids, I want to have fun. And I have fun if players come together, they take responsibilities, they comunicate and they try to make every effort to not only kill the boss, but do so in as efective way as possible. We could just take anything, go there and kill it while talking about cats but then it would be ~10 minutes of a chore. Or we can wait 30 minutes doing something fun while waiting for one pug to join and ten have 5 minutes of fun.

Well in the long run if players aren't teaching new people, the number of people for your PuG will keep declining. The value of any mmo activity is in how much of the playet base it involves. If you take time to teach more people, you'll still get the fun you want, because you're communicating with them. Also, let's be real, there's usually less communication when people actually know what they're doing, and you're probably an outlier in the intent behind those high requirements.

I teach new raiders almost every week. But only when I want to.Also I guess you never played with experianced raiders. There is alot of comunication required. Who cc on which bar, who block which mechanic, who does. Who use pulls when, the order of timewarps....Alot of comunication required

I almost never see training runs going. If you're willing to help people that's great, i can tell you based on the ratio of training to non training runs in lfg, that my opinion of raiders (and community as it matures in any content) as a whole is that they have no desire to work with newer players/teach mechanics. If you're truly doing as you say my comments were in no way aimed at you.

Don't wait for training runs in lfg, join Raid Academy. It's how I started until I found a guild in my timezone willing to train and run raids.

I'm trying this again. When i joined before, because i was told i couldn't ping PuG runs i thought it was unfriendly because i didn't see how to start a group as someone who was starting out and didn't want to just wait around until someone would finally take me (and my schedule is kind of chaotic, so static feels out of the question).

I found out they have a process where you start a group and after you get 6 people, you can ping for an instructor, so now i have some hope, i can actually start a group with them.

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@Firebeard.1746 said:

@Firebeard.1746 said:This is kind of a hilarious thread. Y'all realize that other MMOs get their raids reset regularly, right? So like if you're behind on say, EP and you come in late that tier, in WoW you can catch up as much as you can through other means and when the next tier hits, you're on the same level more or less as everyone else, so people can't ask for KP, etc before letting you in to groups at the beginning of the new tier. GW2 has this unique issue where there isn't really anything resetting anyone's progress and no content is ever outdated per se.

Not resetting progress means that there's no natural way that new players to jump into the content with experienced ones to allow for any kind of mixing. This is an issue with Strikes as well right now, they're starting to stratify just like raids (maybe not as bad, because plenty of people like me seem willing to PuG in a more casual manner and we still
GASP
actually succeed), but it's still a problem nonetheless that people are asking for KP in beginning group content. When I was learning boneskinner before EotN I actually didn't kick noob players I had in my group for this reason: I wanted them to have a good experience with the player base. That was probably my worst boneskinner clear ever and took longer, but I don't regret it at all for the impact it had on the new player who was fawning about how fun it was.

This "I just want my rewards and other people are a means of getting it" mentality is just becoming a symptom of the way progress works in high-end PVE content. I mean that's really what you're saying when you make LFGs like that, you're not willing to teach anyone else. Which is just as toxic as not being willing to try/learn new things. And makes the community seem unfriendly. Maybe that's why blow-out metas are the most popular content in the game. just sayin' some of you are the creators of your own problems...

EDIT: I want to make it clear that I like GW2's horizontal progression system, and I like that old content still has some value, it just brings its own challenges with it that neither the playerbase nor anet has done a good job of addressing.

There is a diference.If you see someone (you dont know) has a problem with math homework, you can decide to help him/her (in this example for free). This is you teaching strikes to new players. But at the same time you could go to a movie with friends.

When someone join strikes (with some lfg demands) without them, its like a kid that comes to you and give you his homework so you do it for him

And huge mistake you made is this: you asume that players ask for high requirements becausethey want loot fast. That is not always the case. I ask for high requirements (well, I only do strikEs with raid static but for same reason why I would ask for high requirements) because I dont care about the loot or kill.When I do strikes or raids, I want to have fun. And I have fun if players come together, they take responsibilities, they comunicate and they try to make every effort to not only kill the boss, but do so in as efective way as possible. We could just take anything, go there and kill it while talking about cats but then it would be ~10 minutes of a chore. Or we can wait 30 minutes doing something fun while waiting for one pug to join and ten have 5 minutes of fun.

Well in the long run if players aren't teaching new people, the number of people for your PuG will keep declining. The value of any mmo activity is in how much of the playet base it involves. If you take time to teach more people, you'll still get the fun you want, because you're communicating with them. Also, let's be real, there's usually less communication when people actually know what they're doing, and you're probably an outlier in the intent behind those high requirements.

I teach new raiders almost every week. But only when I want to.Also I guess you never played with experianced raiders. There is alot of comunication required. Who cc on which bar, who block which mechanic, who does. Who use pulls when, the order of timewarps....Alot of comunication required

I almost never see training runs going. If you're willing to help people that's great, i can tell you based on the ratio of training to non training runs in lfg, that my opinion of raiders (and community as it matures in any content) as a whole is that they have no desire to work with newer players/teach mechanics. If you're truly doing as you say my comments were in no way aimed at you.

I never do training run in LFG. That is suicide. I do that in one of my guilds or training discord servers. If you want to learn raids (or strikes), then lfg is not a great place to start. And to be fair, not a great place to finish either.

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I miss the times where someone goes : "Hey, yu don't meet the requirements for this group, sorry I gotta let yu go/ disallow yu from tagging along"And the other guy goes : "Aww, it's okay, I'll leave."And the group leader goes : "Sorry, goodluck finding another group!"

These days it's like :WOW UNREALISTIC REQUIREMENTSorTHESE ARE THE REASONS WHY I'M SUFFICIENT EVEN IF I DON'T MEET REQUIREMENTSorI CAUSED THAT WIPE 5 TIMES IN A ROW BECAUSE I'M LAGGING, BUT KNOW WHAT? I'M NOT GONNA LEAVE. I'M GONNA FORCE EVERYONE HERE TO ACCOMODATE ME, NOT FLAME ME WHEN I DIE, OR I WILL THROW A HISSY FIT AND POST IT ONTO REDDIT

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@"Yasai.3549" said:I miss the times where someone goes : "Hey, yu don't meet the requirements for this group, sorry I gotta let yu go/ disallow yu from tagging along"And the other guy goes : "Aww, it's okay, I'll leave."And the group leader goes : "Sorry, goodluck finding another group!"

Sometimes a person might join a run with high requirements, and say outright: "I know the encounter well but I don't have 1000 KP", and instead of kicking, you might get a very good player. Other times, a player might cause a wipe due to inexperience and be like "sorry guys, I didn't know the boss would do that, I'm not very experienced in this fight", and instead of kicking them, you offer them a guild invite. After all, if you are playing Vale Guardian, got the healers and tanks covered and your ad is for 250 LI and someone with 10 LI (or no LI) joins and says "hey guys, I've not done this fight a lot of times, but I know the mechanics well." it might be enough to take them anyway. There are roles in a raid fight that require experience, and roles that do not.

Honesty is what changes everything and allows players that do not meet requirements, to join such groups.

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My gripe is that people want something that is not from the mode played. Also i get the feeling that the guy wanting LI is a shitster that wants to be carried , cause if he was good enough he will be in guild and wouldn't be fucking puging. So you want optimized speed runs find a guild and don't cover my pug realm with crap.

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@"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:Strikes are supposed to be steping stone to raids. This fight is not dificult compared to most of the raids. If the point is to introduce something where players can learn, then this dificulty is great.For example grithmar strike is extremly easy. Players will definitely not improve there.There's nothing in Fraenir that would help players improve. Those that will improve would have improved regardless. The rest will also not improve - they will just stop playing that content. So, we're basically back to the point Raids are at.

Strikes are not "stepping stone to raids". They won't change the raid popularity in the slightest. They may be good for seeing which levels of difficulty (and what types of mechanics) are a cutoff for different percentages of population, but they won't ever be able to change those cutoff levels.

What the strikes are now is as if Anet decided to create easy mode raids, but did not want to label them as such, and simply mixed the easy modes along with the hard difficulty ones. Without clearly marking the difficulty tiers, all it would accomplish would be a mess that would make everyone disappointed. And, surprise surprise, that's exactly what is happening now with strikes.

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@Firebeard.1746 said:

@Firebeard.1746 said:This is kind of a hilarious thread. Y'all realize that other MMOs get their raids reset regularly, right? So like if you're behind on say, EP and you come in late that tier, in WoW you can catch up as much as you can through other means and when the next tier hits, you're on the same level more or less as everyone else, so people can't ask for KP, etc before letting you in to groups at the beginning of the new tier. GW2 has this unique issue where there isn't really anything resetting anyone's progress and no content is ever outdated per se.

Not resetting progress means that there's no natural way that new players to jump into the content with experienced ones to allow for any kind of mixing. This is an issue with Strikes as well right now, they're starting to stratify just like raids (maybe not as bad, because plenty of people like me seem willing to PuG in a more casual manner and we still
GASP
actually succeed), but it's still a problem nonetheless that people are asking for KP in beginning group content. When I was learning boneskinner before EotN I actually didn't kick noob players I had in my group for this reason: I wanted them to have a good experience with the player base. That was probably my worst boneskinner clear ever and took longer, but I don't regret it at all for the impact it had on the new player who was fawning about how fun it was.

This "I just want my rewards and other people are a means of getting it" mentality is just becoming a symptom of the way progress works in high-end PVE content. I mean that's really what you're saying when you make LFGs like that, you're not willing to teach anyone else. Which is just as toxic as not being willing to try/learn new things. And makes the community seem unfriendly. Maybe that's why blow-out metas are the most popular content in the game. just sayin' some of you are the creators of your own problems...

EDIT: I want to make it clear that I like GW2's horizontal progression system, and I like that old content still has some value, it just brings its own challenges with it that neither the playerbase nor anet has done a good job of addressing.

There is a diference.If you see someone (you dont know) has a problem with math homework, you can decide to help him/her (in this example for free). This is you teaching strikes to new players. But at the same time you could go to a movie with friends.

When someone join strikes (with some lfg demands) without them, its like a kid that comes to you and give you his homework so you do it for him

And huge mistake you made is this: you asume that players ask for high requirements becausethey want loot fast. That is not always the case. I ask for high requirements (well, I only do strikEs with raid static but for same reason why I would ask for high requirements) because I dont care about the loot or kill.When I do strikes or raids, I want to have fun. And I have fun if players come together, they take responsibilities, they comunicate and they try to make every effort to not only kill the boss, but do so in as efective way as possible. We could just take anything, go there and kill it while talking about cats but then it would be ~10 minutes of a chore. Or we can wait 30 minutes doing something fun while waiting for one pug to join and ten have 5 minutes of fun.

Well in the long run if players aren't teaching new people, the number of people for your PuG will keep declining. The value of any mmo activity is in how much of the playet base it involves. If you take time to teach more people, you'll still get the fun you want, because you're communicating with them. Also, let's be real, there's usually less communication when people actually know what they're doing, and you're probably an outlier in the intent behind those high requirements.

Teaching runs are different from clear runs. I teach raids, fractals and strikes weekly - but these are NOT my clear runs. Teaching runs require few hours of investment for some things, whereas clear runs only take me 20 minutes or so. I do not wish to dedicate a few hours every time I want to run t4 fractals or strike missions. For raids it can be excused to spend more time as they are cleared once a week.

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@"maddoctor.2738" said:

Sometimes a person might join a run with high requirements, and say outright: "I know the encounter well but I don't have 1000 KP", and instead of kicking, you might get a very good player. Other times, a player might cause a wipe due to inexperience and be like "sorry guys, I didn't know the boss would do that, I'm not very experienced in this fight", and instead of kicking them, you offer them a guild invite. After all, if you are playing Vale Guardian, got the healers and tanks covered and your ad is for 250 LI and someone with 10 LI (or no LI) joins and says "hey guys, I've not done this fight a lot of times, but I know the mechanics well." it might be enough to take them anyway. There are roles in a raid fight that require experience, and roles that do not.

Honesty is what changes everything and allows players that do not meet requirements, to join such groups.

Yur missing the point of the entire thread.The main point here is that PLEASE RESPECT THE LFG, ESPECIALLY IF REQUIREMENTS HAVE BEEN STATED

If the group decides to accept the member, then yea sure, all is cool.The thread kind of suggests that the player in question has already been rejected and the issue arises when a player gets unhappy about being rejected despite not meeting requirements starting all sorts of hoo ha.

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@Yasai.3549 said:The main point here is that PLEASE RESPECT THE LFG, ESPECIALLY IF REQUIREMENTS HAVE BEEN STATED

Oh yes I know that requirements should be respected, joining a group without filling those, means you disrespect the team. I agree with the OP and your post. I simply stated if people where honest about their abilities (or lack of having the requirements) when joining, they might've been in a better place. In other words, I believe that honesty can skip requirements, not always, it depends on the group, the role and the boss, but it can work.

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A point, this goes the other way. If a LFG is posted that says casual run, and you join and are a toxic person who trys to force the group into a Raid meta, and use raid grouping you also failed to respect the LFG, it does go both ways and ive seen both sides.

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@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@Firebeard.1746 said:This is kind of a hilarious thread. Y'all realize that other MMOs get their raids reset regularly, right? So like if you're behind on say, EP and you come in late that tier, in WoW you can catch up as much as you can through other means and when the next tier hits, you're on the same level more or less as everyone else, so people can't ask for KP, etc before letting you in to groups at the beginning of the new tier. GW2 has this unique issue where there isn't really anything resetting anyone's progress and no content is ever outdated per se.

Not resetting progress means that there's no natural way that new players to jump into the content with experienced ones to allow for any kind of mixing. This is an issue with Strikes as well right now, they're starting to stratify just like raids (maybe not as bad, because plenty of people like me seem willing to PuG in a more casual manner and we still
GASP
actually succeed), but it's still a problem nonetheless that people are asking for KP in beginning group content. When I was learning boneskinner before EotN I actually didn't kick noob players I had in my group for this reason: I wanted them to have a good experience with the player base. That was probably my worst boneskinner clear ever and took longer, but I don't regret it at all for the impact it had on the new player who was fawning about how fun it was.

This "I just want my rewards and other people are a means of getting it" mentality is just becoming a symptom of the way progress works in high-end PVE content. I mean that's really what you're saying when you make LFGs like that, you're not willing to teach anyone else. Which is just as toxic as not being willing to try/learn new things. And makes the community seem unfriendly. Maybe that's why blow-out metas are the most popular content in the game. just sayin' some of you are the creators of your own problems...

EDIT: I want to make it clear that I like GW2's horizontal progression system, and I like that old content still has some value, it just brings its own challenges with it that neither the playerbase nor anet has done a good job of addressing.

There is a diference.If you see someone (you dont know) has a problem with math homework, you can decide to help him/her (in this example for free). This is you teaching strikes to new players. But at the same time you could go to a movie with friends.

When someone join strikes (with some lfg demands) without them, its like a kid that comes to you and give you his homework so you do it for him

And huge mistake you made is this: you asume that players ask for high requirements becausethey want loot fast. That is not always the case. I ask for high requirements (well, I only do strikEs with raid static but for same reason why I would ask for high requirements) because I dont care about the loot or kill.When I do strikes or raids, I want to have fun. And I have fun if players come together, they take responsibilities, they comunicate and they try to make every effort to not only kill the boss, but do so in as efective way as possible. We could just take anything, go there and kill it while talking about cats but then it would be ~10 minutes of a chore. Or we can wait 30 minutes doing something fun while waiting for one pug to join and ten have 5 minutes of fun.

Well in the long run if players aren't teaching new people, the number of people for your PuG will keep declining. The value of any mmo activity is in how much of the playet base it involves. If you take time to teach more people, you'll still get the fun you want, because you're communicating with them. Also, let's be real, there's usually less communication when people actually know what they're doing, and you're probably an outlier in the intent behind those high requirements.

I teach new raiders almost every week. But only when I want to.Also I guess you never played with experianced raiders. There is alot of comunication required. Who cc on which bar, who block which mechanic, who does. Who use pulls when, the order of timewarps....Alot of comunication required

I almost never see training runs going. If you're willing to help people that's great, i can tell you based on the ratio of training to non training runs in lfg, that my opinion of raiders (and community as it matures in any content) as a whole is that they have no desire to work with newer players/teach mechanics. If you're truly doing as you say my comments were in no way aimed at you.

I never do training run in LFG. That is suicide. I do that in one of my guilds or training discord servers. If you want to learn raids (or strikes), then lfg is not a great place to start. And to be fair, not a great place to finish either.

Then LFG for raids should just be deleted, period. They should have links or a UI for finding a community in the LFG tool instead. This content is not intended to be pugged in any way shape or form, that's what drives these insane requirements (and community furor), it doesn't build community and isn't healthy for the game. The raids themselves, I'm starting to change my mind, might actually be. But everything else around them, just is toxic poop unless you find a guild or community. Other games have puggable raids so it's just sending the wrong message to anyone experienced with MMOs to even have an LFG listing. Maybe they make an in-game feature like a community that has higher pools of players for people who like to PuG with experienced people, I don't know, but LFG tool and the way raids are designed is just plain tacky.

I'm completely serious. I attempted a training run with raid academy for Mythwright gambit and it was actually fun. But I'm realizing, you need a lot of stuff in place to make a raid work (both in terms of people willing to teach as well as people with gear). And you have to really want to raid to build the gear sets to do raids, etc. It's best done helping people find people to play with and who will teach them what gear they need, and be willing to teach them how than to open up an LFG tool that is 90% full of crazy requirements and people advertising paid runs.

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@pninak.1069 said:yea I think dps meter were a mistake. It just leads to player behaving elitist. That's why I never gonna touch raids to begin with even though i know that they got tons of gw1 related content which gw2 players propably don't know about.

It’s a tool so you can help diagnose what’s wrong with the group. If you do your role well it’s nothing to be afraid of.

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@Rednik.3809 said:People who are making these absurd requirements in strikes LFG are usually exactly the same people who made raid community flop flat. They just moved to the new pool, because old one is kinda dead and dry now.

Those same people did the same thing when only dungeons are fractals were available. The LFG requirements have had very minimal impact of the raid community.

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@Ayrilana.1396 said:Those same people did the same thing when only dungeons are fractals were available. The LFG requirements have had very minimal impact of the raid community.

Promoting unreasonably high requirements usually leads to overall higher requirements over time, and by doing that gradually blocks more and more new players from easy joining, which, in turn, gradually shrinks overall active population to the point of becoming insignificant and not worth their share of developing resources. That happened with raids, and now these people came to supposedly casual strike community, poisoning it as well.

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@Rednik.3809 said:

@"Ayrilana.1396" said:Those same people did the same thing when only dungeons are fractals were available. The LFG requirements have had very minimal impact of the raid community.

Promoting unreasonably high requirements usually leads to overall higher requirements over time, and by doing that gradually blocks more and more new players from easy joining, which, in turn, gradually shrinks overall active population to the point of becoming insignificant and not worth their share of developing resources. That happened with raids, and now these people came to supposedly casual strike community, poisoning it as well.

Except that is not what happened.

What you call unreasonable requirements were requirements in place from a very small subsection of players. The vast majority of players had/have all free for all LFGs up, or used to have.

What does happen though is: as players, even at release inexperienced players, become more proficient with content, they become more selective and/or drop out of the content (a lot of players play less and less of content the longer it has been out). As such, many players stop running the content, while the more dedicated players become more and more restrictive since clearing the content with the least amount of hassle is of primary concern. A shrinking player base will always happen for content which ages. Meanwhile without new incentives for engaging the content, there is no resurgence in players, and given there has been no new incentives for raids in over a year, do the math (though from reading the forums, there have been some players moving on to raids from strikes, the question is: how many?)

You can't blame a small fraction of players for a natural progression and content burnout which takes place naturally. Well you can, but it only shows how superficial you are viewing the issue.

That said, what have you personally done to help strikes succeed? Have you been running daily "all welcome" groups? Have you been taking time out of your day/week to train and explain content to new players? It's always easy to judge when all one has to do is look at ones own contribution.

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@Rednik.3809 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:Those same people did the same thing when only dungeons are fractals were available. The LFG requirements have had very minimal impact of the raid community.

Promoting unreasonably high requirements usually leads to overall higher requirements over time, and by doing that gradually blocks more and more new players from easy joining, which, in turn, gradually shrinks overall active population to the point of becoming insignificant and not worth their share of developing resources. That happened with raids, and now these people came to supposedly casual strike community, poisoning it as well.

Ive never seen more than a few groups for strikes with LFGs that are the same levels as raids. Further, as much i despise raids and that community that community did not migrate over to strikes, not fully at least.

Im on NA and you can usually find 3-4 groups at any time*(when im on), with no requirements for all variety of strikes up to and including Whispers.

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@"Cyninja.2954" said:Except that is not what happened.

What you call unreasonable requirements were requirements in place from a very small subsection of players. The vast majority of players had/have all free for all LFGs up, or used to have.

What does happen though is: as players, even at release inexperienced players, become more proficient with content, they become more selective and/or drop out of the content (a lot of players play less and less of content the longer it has been out). As such, many players stop running the content, while the more dedicated players become more and more restrictive since clearing the content with the least amount of hassle is of primary concern. A shrinking player base will always happen for content which ages. Meanwhile without new incentives for engaging the content, there is no resurgence in players, and given there has been no new incentives for raids in over a year, do the math (though from reading the forums, there have been some players moving on to raids from strikes, the question is: how many?)

You can't blame a small fraction of players for a natural progression and content burnout which takes place naturally. Well you can, but it only shows how superficial you are viewing the issue.

I can, tho, blame that small fraction of players for being overly loud for years and effectively blocking all possible suggestions about saving their own community from their current sad state. For years, people were suggesting different measures that would help new players to get more experience and more skill in less difficult raid encounters. And for years people, same people who a still lurking there and on reddit, were yelling "NO, DO NOT WASTE RESOURCES, KEEP MAKING NEW WINGS FOR US, CAZULS GIT GUD MAKE YOUR OWN RAID LUL", were valiantly supporting each other in defending their views before developers, and promptly ignored everything even when it was obvious that situation is deteriorating rapidly. Actually, it is very hilarious to return here after a few years and realize that people like me were actually right. Though, it is not a very satisfying kind of feel.

That said, what have you personally done to help strikes succeed? Have you been running daily "all welcome" groups? Have you been taking time out of your day/week to train and explain content to new players? It's always easy to judge when all one has to do is look at ones own contribution.

I did a few. Also, never ever joined a single strike LFG with any kind of LI/KP requirements.

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@Rednik.3809 said:

@"Cyninja.2954" said:Except that is not what happened.

What you call unreasonable requirements were requirements in place from a very small subsection of players. The vast majority of players had/have all free for all LFGs up, or used to have.

What does happen though is: as players, even at release inexperienced players, become more proficient with content, they become more selective and/or drop out of the content (a lot of players play less and less of content the longer it has been out). As such, many players stop running the content, while the more dedicated players become more and more restrictive since clearing the content with the least amount of hassle is of primary concern. A shrinking player base will always happen for content which ages. Meanwhile without new incentives for engaging the content, there is no resurgence in players, and given there has been no new incentives for raids in over a year, do the math (though from reading the forums, there have been some players moving on to raids from strikes, the question is: how many?)

You can't blame a small fraction of players for a natural progression and content burnout which takes place naturally. Well you can, but it only shows how superficial you are viewing the issue.

I can, tho, blame that small fraction of players for being overly loud for years and effectively blocking all possible suggestions about saving their own community from their current sad state. For years, people were suggesting different measures that would help new players to get more experience and more skill in less difficult raid encounters. And for years people, same people who a still lurking there and on reddit, were yelling "NO, DO NOT WASTE RESOURCES, KEEP MAKING NEW WINGS FOR US, CAZULS GIT GUD MAKE YOUR OWN RAID LUL", were valiantly supporting each other in defending their views before developers, and promptly ignored everything even when it was obvious that situation is deteriorating rapidly. Actually, it is very hilarious to return here after a few years and realize that people like me were actually right. Though, it is not a very satisfying kind of feel.

and for years, players have been running training runs, put up guides, videos, training servers, etc.

You are focusing on 1 aspect of what experienced players have been vocal about, and ignoring all the rest.

As for not wanting easy mode raids: the answer is clearly seen with strikes. The development resources devoted to this type of content are to few for multiple difficulties. This has become very evident now, and was a main reason to be against easy mode raids.

@Rednik.3809 said:

@"Cyninja.2954" said:That said, what have you personally done to help strikes succeed? Have you been running daily "all welcome" groups? Have you been taking time out of your day/week to train and explain content to new players? It's always easy to judge when all one has to do is look at ones own contribution.

I did a few. Also, never ever joined a single strike LFG with any kind of LI/KP requirements.

So in short: you are bascially screaming your displeasure from the sidelines at players who both keep the content alive and are actively engaged in it.

Instead of judging others or demanding they do you a service: start your own daily groups where you practice and train new players. Do that for a few years (hey I'd settle for even just a month), then come back and judge other players who have been doing that for this amont of time, and longer.

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@Cyninja.2954 said:and for years, players have been running training runs, put up guides, videos, training servers, etc.

You are focusing on 1 aspect of what experienced players have been vocal about, and ignoring all the rest.Yeah, I've heard that before many, many times, and what we see now? These measures were only a band-aid that helped only to prolong the agony. The actual cure, working one, was only in creating a different system that would function by itself and would funnel new players in naturally.As for not wanting easy mode raids: the answer is clearly seen with strikes. The development resources devoted to this type of content are to few for multiple difficulties. This has become very evident now, and was a main reason to be against easy mode raids.Development resources for raids now are non-existing at all, there is nothing to devote. Something makes me think that back then, when there was an actual raid development team, things were different.

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