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The Death of Thief


darren.1064

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@darren.1064 said:

@witcher.3197 said:All these people crying because thief isn't a godtier 1v1 class are playing the wrong class.

Did I ask to be a god tier 1v1er in my post? No I simply stated what thief was and what thief has become. I just want damage back and the ability to actually fight.

This goes against the OP where you described thief as best 1v1 class or how it should be, it does look like as you expect thief to be god tier 1v1

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Psycoprophet.8107 didnt like almost all the teams have thief in the tournament? I didnt actually watch it but the preview of the teams that I have seen was like 60-70% had a thief in it.Lots of thiefs and lots of revs.

I'm guessing they prob all had thief for decapping and alot had revs for +1ing etc.I dont think the top thief players a comfortable enough to switch even if the wanted to, couple said they did want to but could be just talk.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Psycoprophet.8107 didnt like almost all the teams have thief in the tournament? I didnt actually watch it but the preview of the teams that I have seen was like 60-70% had a thief in it.Lots of thiefs and lots of revs.

The ones in the finals had condi thief, which apparently was exploiting the fact that people are unprepared. Sindrener said himself that he sucks at anything but thief, and of the rest of the teams, I think it was 2 that had one and 3 that didnt?

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Yeah I watched the vid where he said that,noody did to in his last live stream but but could be just talk. If it's not I'd still understand why they'd still run thief as it's still able to make some decent plays and decap especially if it's the class ur best on so makes sense why they'd stick with it, plus sind name is synonymous with thief be prob hard to drop.

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@Supreme.3164 said:

@witcher.3197 said:All these people crying because thief isn't a godtier 1v1 class are playing the wrong class.

Did I ask to be a god tier 1v1er in my post? No I simply stated what thief was and what thief has become. I just want damage back and the ability to actually fight.

This goes against the OP where you described thief as best 1v1 class or how it should be, it does look like as you expect thief to be god tier 1v1

If you don't understand how writing works. I presentedExhibit A: Thief in its prime that was the #1 1v1 class and could fight any other profession toe to toethen compared it withExhibit B: Thief currently that isn't able to 1v1 any other profession right now

If you think I'm asking for a god tier 1v1 profession then you're wrong or just can't read quite well. You should comprehend from what I wrote that I'm asking for a class that can compete, not simply exist. Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk, u can leave now.

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@"Burnfall.9573" said:'GW2 - THIEF WvW & PvP MONTAGE 'UNTOUCHABLE' '

'Some of these clips are quite old, but I like that it pretty much touches on every thief build for the past 6 months or so.'

U must have missed the part where it said "Some of these clips are quite old" because that's not current thief damage. Pistol Whip wouldn't do a third of that damage now. Once again, even when you think you have something: you bring something old and irrelevant. Goodjob, what you did show is what potential a skilled thief has when they're allowed to do damage. Looks a lot different from all the skilled thieves right now that are forced to flee from nearly every single fighting situation doesn't it?

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@"Klypto.1703" said:The only skillful thieves out there were the ones at this years annual ninja parade because they were so good no one ever saw them.

Let me go play a match post-balance patch and come back with the biggest "I TOLD YOU SO" ever. The skill is slowly being taken out of thief and it's just obnoxious

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@Lighter.5631 said:thief definitely back, playing core power in plat and doing decent right now, also minimum 2 thieves per game on average of 3, sucks to be necro now that thief and rev are plaguing the game.

If the same team has 2 thieves, let alone 3, thats a free win for the opponent. Somehow I doubt that that is happening.

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@Lighter.5631 said:

None of these other classes have been pigeonholed into the same constraints that Thief has. As a top 250 PvP player I have seen nearly all of the thief meta builds, and the glory days were when you could 1v1 or (before this current balance patch) simply do damage.

wait, no hate or anything, if a thief can 1v1 with steal and shortbow 5 and shadow stepwhy would any serious team take a holo or warrior for?just talking logic here, enlighten me some

thief cant even plus one, takes forever to kill, so your team get outnumber for a long time and u lose the purpose of mobility and plusone.

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@"Lighter.5631" said:thief definitely back, playing core power in plat and doing decent right now, also minimum 2 thieves per game on average of 3, sucks to be necro now that thief and rev are plaguing the game.

+1

'This is DISGUSTING. This was a quick vid, so not intro yet.'

'

'Im Here But Nobody See Me. Revenant GW2 PVP'

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  • 6 months later...

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"darren.1064" said:I would like to start this by saying I've been playing GW2 since launch. I used to play PvP back in the hotjoin days before AT's, and Ranked PvP were a thing. I'm a rank 560 in PvP and have played a total of 15,438 games across all of my characters and 10,079 of those were played on my thief. I've never felt like PvP was as broken before as it is now, and I have also never felt like I should make a post on the Guild Wars 2 Forums until now.

During my time on Guild Wars, I've taken a few breaks but I can firmly say that I remember the days when thief was the #1 1v1 class. Seeing as how thief has always had the highest learning curve, it only makes sense that the most complicated class to play would be the best at fighting 1v1s. That point still survives to this day as thief remains the hardest profession to play (aside from gimmick builds that occasionally pop up through profession exploits that also occur on other professions.) Over time the power creep has set in well for other classes while leading to the decline in play for other classes. Over just the past few months, ranger is the prime example as there was never a prime balance patch where they went from the red headed stepchild to the families golden child; over time they had a bunch of smaller positive changes that really helped progress the professions damage, sustain, and popularity. The opposite can be said about thief, the class that 5 years ago was the best class to 1v1 on. A very long series of balance patches have forced thieves into a pvp class that has been pigeonholed into the sole purpose of decapping and +1-ing fights. While there's nothing wrong with this particular role, it is shameful that no other class has been pushed this far into a single monotonous role. Going through each of the nine classes:
    1. Elementalist
      - have the speed to +1, have the range to also team fight with damage or godly support on tempest and can also 1v1 with ease
    1. Necromancer
      - Don't even get me started. Near unkillable at times and can fight entire 1v3s for large amounts of time. Can +1
    1. Mesmer
      - Because the massive nerf finally hit mesmer and mirages, the elite and core spec are also teetering on the edge of being viable
    1. Ranger
      - I don't think I even need to talk about this class
    1. Engineer
      - Still a solid profession right now that is being saved by holosmith's damage and sustainability; can 1v1, hold points or _1
    1. Thief
      - Can simply +1 or decap points; near liability in team fights due to virtual 0 toughness or vitality and reduced damage that is completely laughable
    1. Guardian
      - Untouchable support class that also has access to damage; they're viable in every part of ranked PvP
    1. Warrior
      - Have builds that can hold points, win 1v1s with ease, and while a tad bit slower they are great 1v1ers with their plethora of CC skills
    1. Revenant
      - Current tanks that can 1v1, team fight, and one of the best +1 professions

None of these other classes have been pigeonholed into the same constraints that Thief has. As a top 250 PvP player I have seen nearly all of the thief meta builds, and the glory days were when you could 1v1 or (before this current balance patch) simply do damage. The current big problem with thief is obviously
A
: the damage is absolutely terrible and you cannot win any 1v1s. Before this balance patch thieves struggled with winning 1v1s because the profession has been on a steady decline in every category possible aside from mobility while every other profession has received plentiful buffs in damage and sustainability.
B
: A majority of initiative a thief uses is spent on defensive purposes as opposed to offensive purposes. Defensive purposes would include going into stealth. Black Powder Shot alone costs 6 initiative to use and that doesn't include the Heartseeker, Bound, or Cluster Bomb that the thief is also forced to use to finish going into stealth. With the current playing style for everybody unfortunately being low damage and tanky builds, initiative is a big problem for thieves as we're forced into extended fights where the thief inevitably doesn't do enough upfront damage to kill the person and so the fight drags on until the thief inevitably runs out of initiative and dies of attrition. Hence where thieves are forced into the +1 nature that no other class has been forced into because they're more properly balanced.

The "High Risk, High Reward" motto that was originally used for thieves has become a sham as even using a berserker amulet, auto-attacks do about 300-500 damage each. Backstab does less than 5000 damage and that's for D/P: one of the thieve's most offensively powerful weapon sets. However thieves are one of the easiest classes to kill due to having only 1 skill that supplies stability for a single second coupled with a low health pool and no extra toughness. Core necro is just one example of a class that can keep thief fear-locked for an eternity as the thief's health quickly dwindles away from other conditions. Power rangers, mainly power soulbeasts are melting thieves in a split second with nothing to save them. Guardians and elementalists can simply burn them to death. Engineers win the battle of attrition. Mesmer and some warrior builds are the only two professions that thief has a feasible chance against. Not to mention that that is only sometimes with warrior.

I'll try to keep this short, but in short: The thief that was born into Guild Wars 2 has died. The best 1v1 class with the highest skill floor and ceiling was wasted.

Complicated class......

"High risk"......

Don't want to link more video proof......

I like how the video you posted is dated 2016,2015,2013. Good job

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@PotatoAssasin.1786 said:

@"darren.1064" said:I would like to start this by saying I've been playing GW2 since launch. I used to play PvP back in the hotjoin days before AT's, and Ranked PvP were a thing. I'm a rank 560 in PvP and have played a total of 15,438 games across all of my characters and 10,079 of those were played on my thief. I've never felt like PvP was as broken before as it is now, and I have also never felt like I should make a post on the Guild Wars 2 Forums until now.

During my time on Guild Wars, I've taken a few breaks but I can firmly say that I remember the days when thief was the #1 1v1 class. Seeing as how thief has always had the highest learning curve, it only makes sense that the most complicated class to play would be the best at fighting 1v1s. That point still survives to this day as thief remains the hardest profession to play (aside from gimmick builds that occasionally pop up through profession exploits that also occur on other professions.) Over time the power creep has set in well for other classes while leading to the decline in play for other classes. Over just the past few months, ranger is the prime example as there was never a prime balance patch where they went from the red headed stepchild to the families golden child; over time they had a bunch of smaller positive changes that really helped progress the professions damage, sustain, and popularity. The opposite can be said about thief, the class that 5 years ago was the best class to 1v1 on. A very long series of balance patches have forced thieves into a pvp class that has been pigeonholed into the sole purpose of decapping and +1-ing fights. While there's nothing wrong with this particular role, it is shameful that no other class has been pushed this far into a single monotonous role. Going through each of the nine classes:
    1. Elementalist
      - have the speed to +1, have the range to also team fight with damage or godly support on tempest and can also 1v1 with ease
    1. Necromancer
      - Don't even get me started. Near unkillable at times and can fight entire 1v3s for large amounts of time. Can +1
    1. Mesmer
      - Because the massive nerf finally hit mesmer and mirages, the elite and core spec are also teetering on the edge of being viable
    1. Ranger
      - I don't think I even need to talk about this class
    1. Engineer
      - Still a solid profession right now that is being saved by holosmith's damage and sustainability; can 1v1, hold points or _1
    1. Thief
      - Can simply +1 or decap points; near liability in team fights due to virtual 0 toughness or vitality and reduced damage that is completely laughable
    1. Guardian
      - Untouchable support class that also has access to damage; they're viable in every part of ranked PvP
    1. Warrior
      - Have builds that can hold points, win 1v1s with ease, and while a tad bit slower they are great 1v1ers with their plethora of CC skills
    1. Revenant
      - Current tanks that can 1v1, team fight, and one of the best +1 professions

None of these other classes have been pigeonholed into the same constraints that Thief has. As a top 250 PvP player I have seen nearly all of the thief meta builds, and the glory days were when you could 1v1 or (before this current balance patch) simply do damage. The current big problem with thief is obviously
A
: the damage is absolutely terrible and you cannot win any 1v1s. Before this balance patch thieves struggled with winning 1v1s because the profession has been on a steady decline in every category possible aside from mobility while every other profession has received plentiful buffs in damage and sustainability.
B
: A majority of initiative a thief uses is spent on defensive purposes as opposed to offensive purposes. Defensive purposes would include going into stealth. Black Powder Shot alone costs 6 initiative to use and that doesn't include the Heartseeker, Bound, or Cluster Bomb that the thief is also forced to use to finish going into stealth. With the current playing style for everybody unfortunately being low damage and tanky builds, initiative is a big problem for thieves as we're forced into extended fights where the thief inevitably doesn't do enough upfront damage to kill the person and so the fight drags on until the thief inevitably runs out of initiative and dies of attrition. Hence where thieves are forced into the +1 nature that no other class has been forced into because they're more properly balanced.

The "High Risk, High Reward" motto that was originally used for thieves has become a sham as even using a berserker amulet, auto-attacks do about 300-500 damage each. Backstab does less than 5000 damage and that's for D/P: one of the thieve's most offensively powerful weapon sets. However thieves are one of the easiest classes to kill due to having only 1 skill that supplies stability for a single second coupled with a low health pool and no extra toughness. Core necro is just one example of a class that can keep thief fear-locked for an eternity as the thief's health quickly dwindles away from other conditions. Power rangers, mainly power soulbeasts are melting thieves in a split second with nothing to save them. Guardians and elementalists can simply burn them to death. Engineers win the battle of attrition. Mesmer and some warrior builds are the only two professions that thief has a feasible chance against. Not to mention that that is only sometimes with warrior.

I'll try to keep this short, but in short: The thief that was born into Guild Wars 2 has died. The best 1v1 class with the highest skill floor and ceiling was wasted.

Complicated class......

"High risk"......

Don't want to link more video proof......

I like how the video you posted is dated 2016,2015,2013. Good job

'The Reason Why The Past Is Present Is Because They Were Never Learned, Resulting In Life Sentences Of Repetition

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@darren.1064 said:

@darren.1064 said:I would like to start this by saying I've been playing GW2 since launch. I used to play PvP back in the hotjoin days before AT's, and Ranked PvP were a thing. I'm a rank 560 in PvP and have played a total of 15,438 games across all of my characters and 10,079 of those were played on my thief. I've never felt like PvP was as broken before as it is now, and I have also never felt like I should make a post on the Guild Wars 2 Forums until now.

During my time on Guild Wars, I've taken a few breaks but I can firmly say that I remember the days when thief was the #1 1v1 class. Seeing as how thief has always had the highest learning curve, it only makes sense that the most complicated class to play would be the best at fighting 1v1s. That point still survives to this day as thief remains the hardest profession to play (aside from gimmick builds that occasionally pop up through profession exploits that also occur on other professions.) Over time the power creep has set in well for other classes while leading to the decline in play for other classes. Over just the past few months, ranger is the prime example as there was never a prime balance patch where they went from the red headed stepchild to the families golden child; over time they had a bunch of smaller positive changes that really helped progress the professions damage, sustain, and popularity. The opposite can be said about thief, the class that 5 years ago was the best class to 1v1 on. A very long series of balance patches have forced thieves into a pvp class that has been pigeonholed into the sole purpose of decapping and +1-ing fights. While there's nothing wrong with this particular role, it is shameful that no other class has been pushed this far into a single monotonous role. Going through each of the nine classes:
    1. Elementalist
      - have the speed to +1, have the range to also team fight with damage or godly support on tempest and can also 1v1 with ease
    1. Necromancer
      - Don't even get me started. Near unkillable at times and can fight entire 1v3s for large amounts of time. Can +1
    1. Mesmer
      - Because the massive nerf
      finally
      hit mesmer and mirages, the elite and core spec are also teetering on the edge of being viable
    1. Ranger
      - I don't think I even need to talk about this class
    1. Engineer
      - Still a solid profession right now that is being saved by holosmith's damage and sustainability; can 1v1, hold points or _1
    1. Thief
      - Can simply +1 or decap points; near liability in team fights due to virtual 0 toughness or vitality and reduced damage that is completely laughable
    1. Guardian
      - Untouchable support class that also has access to damage; they're viable in every part of ranked PvP
    1. Warrior
      - Have builds that can hold points, win 1v1s with ease, and while a tad bit slower they are great 1v1ers with their plethora of CC skills
    1. Revenant
      - Current tanks that can 1v1, team fight, and one of the best +1 professions

None of these other classes have been pigeonholed into the same constraints that Thief has. As a top 250 PvP player I have seen nearly all of the thief meta builds, and the glory days were when you could 1v1 or (before this current balance patch) simply do damage. The current big problem with thief is obviously
A
: the damage is absolutely terrible and you cannot win any 1v1s. Before this balance patch thieves struggled with winning 1v1s because the profession has been on a steady decline in every category possible aside from mobility while every other profession has received plentiful buffs in damage and sustainability.
B
: A majority of initiative a thief uses is spent on defensive purposes as opposed to offensive purposes. Defensive purposes would include going into stealth. Black Powder Shot alone costs 6 initiative to use and that doesn't include the Heartseeker, Bound, or Cluster Bomb that the thief is also forced to use to finish going into stealth. With the current playing style for everybody unfortunately being low damage and tanky builds, initiative is a big problem for thieves as we're forced into extended fights where the thief inevitably doesn't do enough upfront damage to kill the person and so the fight drags on until the thief inevitably runs out of initiative and dies of attrition. Hence where thieves are forced into the +1 nature that no other class has been forced into because they're more properly balanced.

The "High Risk, High Reward" motto that was originally used for thieves has become a sham as even using a berserker amulet, auto-attacks do about 300-500 damage each. Backstab does less than 5000 damage and that's for D/P: one of the thieve's most offensively powerful weapon sets. However thieves are one of the easiest classes to kill due to having only 1 skill that supplies stability for a single second coupled with a low health pool and no extra toughness. Core necro is just one example of a class that can keep thief fear-locked for an eternity as the thief's health quickly dwindles away from other conditions. Power rangers, mainly power soulbeasts are melting thieves in a split second with nothing to save them. Guardians and elementalists can simply burn them to death. Engineers win the battle of attrition. Mesmer and some warrior builds are the only two professions that thief has a feasible chance against. Not to mention that that is only sometimes with warrior.

I'll try to keep this short, but in short: The thief that was born into Guild Wars 2 has died. The best 1v1 class with the highest skill floor and ceiling was wasted.

Yeah pretty much, teams wrecking the game just as the past teams did. This is one community where the team would be far better off as well as the game if they literally ignored forums etc and just went of high lv game play, the community isn't smart enough to know the difference between annoying and op and on top are vindictive and enjoy getting their counter classes ruined regardless of how it effects all the players that enjoy it. Community deserves the game as it is cuz they helped mold it,most not all.

Lets make a deal .You get more burst but you loose 30% damage reduction + Weakness :Unhindered Combatant+ Weakening Strikes+ Marauder's ResilienceDeal ?

Weakening Strikes and Marauder's Resilience have only been around for a year... So we've already been playing without them for years aside for the past few months. It's not like they're traits we've always had.

Yeah, we used to lean onto acrobatics for similar reasons we now do to daredevil. Acrobatics has basically been gutted so if you do the same to DD you're gonna have to buff acrobatics a little to compensate.

Plus the logic behind, "to get more burst you need to sacrifice your sustain" really doesn't apply to GW2. There are other classes and meta builds that have more or equal burst to thief, more sustain, and more passive defensives.

Since beta players have historically said "nerf teef." I blame ye old pistol whip meta one shot builds for this.

There is literally no other class in the game that has been the brunt of consecutive nerfs almost every patch than thief. Maaaaaaybe Mes but that's a big maybe. You'd have to ask Helseth about that.

The only time I've seen a meta where people didn't complain about Thief was at the start of HoT when power Rev stole their thunder and literally every ESL pro thief main (Yes even Sindrener iirc) rerolled to revenant because they could do everything we could and more. They had mobility and teleports, sustain, defensives, CC chains, etc.

Even then people still said "QQ stealth," because mesmers dared to exist and took the mantle of most hated class. Over the years it really doesn't matter what is done to Thief. People hate Thief for stealth, teleports, and initiative resulting in not having to play the cool down management game that everyone else has to. People's hate on Thief isn't for numbers we push out, it's simply for being born the way we were designed by anet. The only way to quench the hate is if Thief was completely deleted and we were given a new class with the same gear type so our ascended gear still carried over.

They hate us cuz they anus or something. Always will. I've accepted this.

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Be me, lurkingDEATH OF THIEFMay this finally be the day?Open threadThief is still alive and well, it's just the thousandth thread where thief mains complain about how every skill deals 5K even when they invest 3 traitlines in defensive utilities

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/baldmemes/images/c/cb/Badman.png/revision/latest?cb=20160304173519

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@Project exa.3204 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:You're right, thief is so weak that 3/4 of the top 4 teams last mAT ran them, and I don't think this mAT will be any different.

Yeah, and that's cool and all. Top 3/4 teams of mAT will always be in the top 3/4 teams. If Anet only cares about the top 1% of players that type of mentality is 100% ok.Not talking about the top 1% of players, because no matter what they're going to make classes work. Talking about the 99% of players who jump into thief thinking it's going to be fun, and end up getting rekt because the learning curve is so steep or because they are expected to have a singular purpose & don't understand fully how to play it.

Do you disagree? You think that top 3/4 teams of mAT discredit the fact that thiefs (in general)--especially in solo or duo queue ranked where the majority of players play, makes the discussion points somehow NOT an issue? I don't.-Eros of Ascalon

Not true , top players doenst make everything work . That would be true at ranked but at monthlys top players run most efficent builds and you cant play without a thief , you simply cant .

Also thief is one of the best class to carry at ranked , and not only "top players" , a averague player with a plat1/plat2 lv can easily carry with it , its not a difficult class when it comes to mechanical play.

Thief is bad when it comes to low low level , silver or low gold players cuz at this skill lv players face tank all dmg and have almost no clue about how rotations work or how pvp itself work.

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@"Highlie.7641" said:Thief is very broken, just like every other profession now they rely on using cheese to win. One only has to look at a Thief Vs Thief matchup to identify the issue. which of course is the sustain from Shadow arts, would anyone argue a SA thief won't win vs a non SA thief? seriously go run S/d vs d/p running that traitline, your going to punish him 4-5 times after he fails his stealth burst, but due to your damage being lower they can out heal you.

I'm sure some of you are about to scream nerf the sustain on thief then, and i'm sure most of the thief community would agree. the reality is they can't. It was already mentioned why this would be a bad idea. "The sustain on other professions is to high" you nerf thief all your going to do is force everyone into a SA condition spec.

You ain't fixing thief unless you fix the defensive power creep on other professions first.

let me be the first person to say this. Shadow Arts isn't even that good on Thief. I personally run Trickery which is a requirement, and I also run Deadly Arts so I can do some semblance of damage. Of course I run a power daredevil build, however Thieves currently are forced into underperforming damage builds, or absolutely cheese condition builds because thief does weak damage. I've only played 11 or 12 games this season because ranked pvp is THAT BAD nowadays, however I've seen plenty of teams without thieves. Thief is simply seen as a "must have" class because it can decap quickly and that's it. No profession should simply just be delegated to the boring role of decapping points but being unable to actually fight a 1v1, and what if all 3 points are being held by other players? What is a thief supposed to do then since their +1 skills aren't that good and second to several other classes currently. The balance patches that popped up in February or March or whatever did nothing but destroy the balance that GW2 once had. Instead of skillful builds where there were several 1shot builds across several professions, now we have tank wars where several professions are now invincible in not only 1v1s but also 1v2s and even 1v3s. That might be fine with some people, however thief has been the profession that has been used to keep those other professions and builds in check (alongside warrior, mesmer and ranger) and now that there's nothing keeping several professions in check, we've landed at the point where ranked just caves in on itself because there's no point. I played a game today with 3 holosmiths and 2 revenants on the same team because literally what else would you need to play right now? Terrible balance patches built around dismantling good builds and hard-to-play professions like thief, warrior, and mesmer is literally helping ranked in no way and this game won't be improving until certain classes start to see damage buffs again. If nerfs didnt fix this garbage game then why would we continue to dish them out?

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@darren.1064 said:

@"Highlie.7641" said:Thief is very broken, just like every other profession now they rely on using cheese to win. One only has to look at a Thief Vs Thief matchup to identify the issue. which of course is the sustain from Shadow arts, would anyone argue a SA thief won't win vs a non SA thief? seriously go run S/d vs d/p running that traitline, your going to punish him 4-5 times after he fails his stealth burst, but due to your damage being lower they can out heal you.

I'm sure some of you are about to scream nerf the sustain on thief then, and i'm sure most of the thief community would agree. the reality is they can't. It was already mentioned why this would be a bad idea. "The sustain on other professions is to high" you nerf thief all your going to do is force everyone into a SA condition spec.

You ain't fixing thief unless you fix the defensive power creep on other professions first.

let me be the first person to say this. Shadow Arts isn't even that good on Thief. I personally run Trickery which is a requirement, and I also run Deadly Arts so I can do some semblance of damage. Of course I run a power daredevil build, however Thieves currently are forced into underperforming damage builds, or absolutely cheese condition builds because thief does weak damage. I've only played 11 or 12 games this season because ranked pvp is THAT BAD nowadays, however I've seen plenty of teams without thieves. Thief is simply seen as a "must have" class because it can decap quickly and that's it. No profession should simply just be delegated to the boring role of decapping points but being unable to actually fight a 1v1, and what if all 3 points are being held by other players? What is a thief supposed to do then since their +1 skills aren't that good and second to several other classes currently. The balance patches that popped up in February or March or whatever did nothing but destroy the balance that GW2 once had. Instead of skillful builds where there were several 1shot builds across several professions, now we have tank wars where several professions are now invincible in not only 1v1s but also 1v2s and even 1v3s. That might be fine with some people, however thief has been the profession that has been used to keep those other professions and builds in check (alongside warrior, mesmer and ranger) and now that there's nothing keeping several professions in check, we've landed at the point where ranked just caves in on itself because there's no point. I played a game today with 3 holosmiths and 2 revenants on the same team because literally what else would you need to play right now? Terrible balance patches built around dismantling good builds and hard-to-play professions like thief, warrior, and mesmer is literally helping ranked in no way and this game won't be improving until certain classes start to see damage buffs again. If nerfs didnt fix this garbage game then why would we continue to dish them out?

thief is one of the best +1 classes, it moves to +1 faster then anything else. they drop on you from stealth, so opener has no counter-play, they cant overextend since its thief and they never die. Yes, others can do more damage then thief, but thief +1 better then them since damage is NOT everything, also. Thief is very good for teamfights, blasting smoke field against team without stealth alone can be a GG for the enemy team, lights out.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"Highlie.7641" said:Thief is very broken, just like every other profession now they rely on using cheese to win. One only has to look at a Thief Vs Thief matchup to identify the issue. which of course is the sustain from Shadow arts, would anyone argue a SA thief won't win vs a non SA thief? seriously go run S/d vs d/p running that traitline, your going to punish him 4-5 times after he fails his stealth burst, but due to your damage being lower they can out heal you.

I'm sure some of you are about to scream nerf the sustain on thief then, and i'm sure most of the thief community would agree. the reality is they can't. It was already mentioned why this would be a bad idea. "The sustain on other professions is to high" you nerf thief all your going to do is force everyone into a SA condition spec.

You ain't fixing thief unless you fix the defensive power creep on other professions first.

let me be the first person to say this. Shadow Arts isn't even that good on Thief. I personally run Trickery which is a requirement, and I also run Deadly Arts so I can do some semblance of damage. Of course I run a power daredevil build, however Thieves currently are forced into underperforming damage builds, or absolutely cheese condition builds because thief does weak damage. I've only played 11 or 12 games this season because ranked pvp is THAT BAD nowadays, however I've seen plenty of teams without thieves. Thief is simply seen as a "must have" class because it can decap quickly and that's it. No profession should simply just be delegated to the boring role of decapping points but being unable to actually fight a 1v1, and what if all 3 points are being held by other players? What is a thief supposed to do then since their +1 skills aren't that good and second to several other classes currently. The balance patches that popped up in February or March or whatever did nothing but destroy the balance that GW2 once had. Instead of skillful builds where there were several 1shot builds across several professions, now we have tank wars where several professions are now invincible in not only 1v1s but also 1v2s and even 1v3s. That might be fine with some people, however thief has been the profession that has been used to keep those other professions and builds in check (alongside warrior, mesmer and ranger) and now that there's nothing keeping several professions in check, we've landed at the point where ranked just caves in on itself because there's no point. I played a game today with 3 holosmiths and 2 revenants on the same team because literally what else would you need to play right now? Terrible balance patches built around dismantling good builds and hard-to-play professions like thief, warrior, and mesmer is literally helping ranked in no way and this game won't be improving until certain classes start to see damage buffs again. If nerfs didnt fix this garbage game then why would we continue to dish them out?

thief is one of the best +1 classes, it moves to +1 faster then anything else. they drop on you from stealth, so opener has no counter-play, they cant overextend since its thief and they never die. Yes, others can do more damage then thief, but thief +1 better then them since damage is NOT everything, also. Thief is very good for teamfights, blasting smoke field against team without stealth alone can be a GG for the enemy team, lights out.

So what's more important in a +1 than damage in a PvP system that's designed for u to do damage and kill people on an opposing team? Because maybe I should reroll to that build instead.

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@darren.1064 said:

@"Highlie.7641" said:Thief is very broken, just like every other profession now they rely on using cheese to win. One only has to look at a Thief Vs Thief matchup to identify the issue. which of course is the sustain from Shadow arts, would anyone argue a SA thief won't win vs a non SA thief? seriously go run S/d vs d/p running that traitline, your going to punish him 4-5 times after he fails his stealth burst, but due to your damage being lower they can out heal you.

I'm sure some of you are about to scream nerf the sustain on thief then, and i'm sure most of the thief community would agree. the reality is they can't. It was already mentioned why this would be a bad idea. "The sustain on other professions is to high" you nerf thief all your going to do is force everyone into a SA condition spec.

You ain't fixing thief unless you fix the defensive power creep on other professions first.

let me be the first person to say this. Shadow Arts isn't even that good on Thief. I personally run Trickery which is a requirement, and I also run Deadly Arts so I can do some semblance of damage. Of course I run a power daredevil build, however Thieves currently are forced into underperforming damage builds, or absolutely cheese condition builds because thief does weak damage. I've only played 11 or 12 games this season because ranked pvp is THAT BAD nowadays, however I've seen plenty of teams without thieves. Thief is simply seen as a "must have" class because it can decap quickly and that's it. No profession should simply just be delegated to the boring role of decapping points but being unable to actually fight a 1v1, and what if all 3 points are being held by other players? What is a thief supposed to do then since their +1 skills aren't that good and second to several other classes currently. The balance patches that popped up in February or March or whatever did nothing but destroy the balance that GW2 once had. Instead of skillful builds where there were several 1shot builds across several professions, now we have tank wars where several professions are now invincible in not only 1v1s but also 1v2s and even 1v3s. That might be fine with some people, however thief has been the profession that has been used to keep those other professions and builds in check (alongside warrior, mesmer and ranger) and now that there's nothing keeping several professions in check, we've landed at the point where ranked just caves in on itself because there's no point. I played a game today with 3 holosmiths and 2 revenants on the same team because literally what else would you need to play right now? Terrible balance patches built around dismantling good builds and hard-to-play professions like thief, warrior, and mesmer is literally helping ranked in no way and this game won't be improving until certain classes start to see damage buffs again. If nerfs didnt fix this garbage game then why would we continue to dish them out?

thief is one of the best +1 classes, it moves to +1 faster then anything else. they drop on you from stealth, so opener has no counter-play, they cant overextend since its thief and they never die. Yes, others can do more damage then thief, but thief +1 better then them since damage is NOT everything, also. Thief is very good for teamfights, blasting smoke field against team without stealth alone can be a GG for the enemy team, lights out.

So what's more important in a +1 than damage in a PvP system that's designed for u to do damage and kill people on an opposing team? Because maybe I should reroll to that build instead.

Being able to quickly arrive from somewhere to said +1, being able to instantly jump onto the person that you gank, and being able to do it from stealth so that they dont know you are coming. If damage was the only thing that mattered in ganking you would see meme 1shot berserkers doing the ganking but you dont. You have thief cuz1 its the fastest2 it never dies3 it attacks from stealth and has so much of it that you cant tell where thief is unless you are on comms, and even then...

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