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Removing amulets is not a solution


Ryan.9387

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Removing amulet after amulet is not doing anything to fix pvp. Knights amulet was pretty much run on two builds, core ranger and prot holo.

These builds were on their own op. And provided no nerfs, they will remain op on the next tankiest amulet until berseker and sinister are all thats left.

We've already been through this with cleric, settler, etc.

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@"Ryan.9387" said:Removing amulet after amulet is not doing anything to fix pvp. Knights amulet was pretty much run on two builds, core ranger and prot holo.

These builds were on their own op. And provided no nerfs, they will remain op on the next tankiest amulet until berseker and sinister are all thats left.

We've already been through this with cleric, settler, etc.

prot holo used Knight amulet ?https://1.bp.blogspot.com/--Q5k9wp4qgk/VZvDUgoOU_I/AAAAAAAAAqU/5gI5g2rb2Wc/s1600/huzzah-poster.jpg

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@Ryan.9387 said:Removing amulet after amulet is not doing anything to fix pvp. Knights amulet was pretty much run on two builds, core ranger and prot holo.

These builds were on their own op. And provided no nerfs, they will remain op on the next tankiest amulet until berseker and sinister are all thats left.

We've already been through this with cleric, settler, etc.

Said the same fucking thing on discord. Yes I understand that the amulet made it even more annoying to deal with but literally running paladin is an option and now instead of hard light you can run Egun or spec shield which offers stun break and less damage or condi cleanse with health regeneration. On a shorter cool down then hard light. 3 stun break build incoming prot holo gonna be interesting for a bit.

Rangers are probably going back to soul beats or staying on Core with Axe/axe as an option. Yet both holo and ranger still having so much sustain from certain traitlines.

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What I love about games is the customization of builds, when they remove more amulets and do not even attempt to nerf them a little, nerf the stat's calculations, or anything like that, I lose interest in the game as everyone picks the same style of builds. "Oh what amulet are you running" "Oh wait, there's only one amulet in the game xd"

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Outright deleting anything rarely is a good approach, usually it's one someone takes if they dont feel confident enough to rework the issue appropriately, kinda like 300 sec place holders that still remain. Reducing build diversity for the sake of balance is a false premise and usually does more harm to the game then good.Sry but if those 300cd skills are still present someone's failing hard at that company, whether the numbers coulda been tweaked to 180 or the design team reworking the skills but either way that should have been resolved by now.

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Yeah this is what stood out as the bad part of the patch.

Problems with Amulets / Runes are usually problems with specific builds. Removing them is often bad for a few reasons:

  1. It's usually the wrong nerf. Unless everyone and their mom and their moms mom is running the amulet/rune on every class ( IE: Rune of Earth meta lmao ) it's probably not the root of the problem.
  2. It doesn't do anything to help WvW, and each time they do it the meta between PvP and WvW becomes further apart making it more and more difficult to balance properly.
  3. Often the actual cause of the problem goes unfixed.
  4. It's a huge slippery slope. For instance, lets say people want rune of divinity removed because it gives power builds alot of stats+ Health. OK well the next best thing for power builds would be Rune of the Warrior. Are we going to remove that next? And then what's next, Rune of the Dolyak? Rune of vampirism? Are we going to delete Demolisher and Marauder amulet next, even though they are the two most balanced amulets in the game? How about just remove all amulets runes and call it a day? Base stat game only lmao.

Like in the case of Knight amulet. Knights honestly isn't even that good. Try running knights on a class that has had significant damage nerfs like thief, warrior, ele or rev and you will do some very sub par damage. Knights amulet only did decent damage when using skills that had been forgotten/untouched from the damage-rework patch a few months ago. So why not just touch those skills instead? Strangely, in this case a lot of those skills actually did get touched on so removing knights is almost a moot point.

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Yeahh....I did not agree with ditching all those amulets...that just ruins build diversity. Then again, if we're on the subject of removing problematic amulets, you might as well just remove them all! In place of the amulets, just let us manually allocate pvp stats and have limits on each.

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@Master Ketsu.4569 said:Problems with Amulets / Runes are usually problems with specific builds.

Amulets, definitely. Runes, it depends. The problem with runes (and sigils) are that some provide benefits which were not intended for a spec. Those benefits over-amplify the strengths or negate the intended weakness of the spec. This has been true since core days. One of the big problems lately was runes increasing boon duration coupled with elite specs which crap out boons. Another was shocking aura on elite skills with shorter cooldown (core had the same problem with Rune of Lyssa).

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I agree. Don't think the amulet removal was necessary at all. Barely any builds actually ran these amulets because they sacrificed damage for sustain, which is pretty reasonable.

Like @Master Ketsu.4569 said, you could have run these amulets on most every profession in the game and been at a distinct disadvantage at least when it came to actually doing damage.If a class was an outlier in that respect, it is most definitely something about the class and not the amulet.

Hope they revert this particular change. Pretty boring being forced to run specific amulets.

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Removing options is never the solution

Fixing broken interactions, and fixing the fact that we have overbloat and over-stacked classes/specs is the true fix. ~ Remove all the options you also typically tend to push away players. Taking away over proccing boon spam or condi spam could be a good change, but why I guess when you can just remove the amulets that allow those builds? I mean I guess be careful what you ask for?

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Nerf Assassin, berserker, and any other power-precision-ferocity amulet now since you removed toughness options.... Game is not 1v1 so some classes needed armor to sustain multiple players(to survive burst) and you took that from those. Some classes cannot be played with full dmg amulets. Pushing skill in this game is out of option when game is all about outnumbering fights and abusing stats/cooldowns. I would ask nicely to revert this change or to add NEW similar options...please.

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How Smite balances the game:

“Mercury and Golden Blade quickly became best friends, allowing Mercury to quickly clear any jungle camps with ease and dealing some heavy splash damage. While we feel Golden Blade is relatively balance when used with normal Basic Attacks, the interaction with Made You Look has proven to be too strong. With this interaction existing Mercury either needs to rely on Golden Blade or Golden Blade needs to be weak enough that it really is only usable with Mercury.

Rather than overnerf Golden Blade, Made You Look is getting a tweak in how it functions. While it can still Crit, it will no longer trigger Basic Attack items and will now proc Ability item effects. In a previous patch we increased the cooldown of Made You Look to help keep his clear speed with Golden Blade in check, but with this change we can reduce the cooldown back to 8s.”

Vs how gw2 balances the game;

Structured Player vs. PlayerKnight Amulet has been removed from the PvP Build panel.Cavalier Amulet has been removed from the PvP Build panel.Barbarian Amulet has been removed from the PvP Build panel.Paladin Amulet: Reduced toughness and vitality from 500 to 400.

JGzuBAI.gif

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I agree. Removing amulets when from the 22 we had barely 4-5 had any use is not "balancing" but the opposite. They let broken mechanics untouched trying to mitigate the stat distribution which makes them powerfull, and what happens is that the build variety suffers in PvP whereas the gap between the builds in that game mode and the ones in WvW becomes more and more wide.

Is clear that when they pushed the 4 stats gear in the expansion, with better global values to incentive sells they were opening the Pandora's box. Recently they were forced to nerf the 4 stats amulets to the same global values as the ones with 3 stats, to the point that a lot of them became useless except for classes which need to cover a weak spot (as Guardians or Eles due their low HP), and now we have Paladin with a global value of 2800, 200 less slashed in defense (vit+toug) with no offensive enhancements in return? Why only Paladin? Why not to do the same with Demolisher, etc?

At the end, look at how poor the variety is: you have either Berserker (or marauder for weaklings) and Carrion for the condition builds (no reason to ever touch the viper, rampager, grieving... those are just straigth garbage); you have Mender for physical damage + support and Sage for hybrid support, and that's all. Just 4 amulets in use in the entire game, and sigils and runes are in the same trend: dozens of them, but you barely see more than 8-10 in use.

They are aso heavily compromised for the future: they can't offer any new defensive amulet because vit + toug = instantly broken for cause of the poor skill balancing, and being condition a damage source which only requires 1 stat to work that means that any new condition skill added to the game can easilly break the "balance" towards condi builds, specially under the current meta of low physical damage. Is not weird that condi bunkers are dominating: if you want a physical bunker you don't even have the access to the required atributes, plus physical tanks do no damage whereas for condition tanks it comes free!

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@Master Ketsu.4569 said:Yeah this is what stood out as the bad part of the patch.

Problems with Amulets / Runes are usually problems with specific builds. Removing them is often bad for a few reasons:

  1. It's usually the wrong nerf. Unless everyone and their mom and their moms mom is running the amulet/rune on every class ( IE: Rune of Earth meta lmao ) it's probably not the root of the problem.
  2. It doesn't do anything to help WvW, and each time they do it the meta between PvP and WvW becomes further apart making it more and more difficult to balance properly.
  3. Often the actual cause of the problem goes unfixed.
  4. It's a huge slippery slope. For instance, lets say people want rune of divinity removed because it gives power builds alot of stats+ Health. OK well the next best thing for power builds would be Rune of the Warrior. Are we going to remove that next? And then what's next, Rune of the Dolyak? Rune of vampirism? Are we going to delete Demolisher and Marauder amulet next, even though they are the two most balanced amulets in the game? How about just remove all amulets runes and call it a day? Base stat game only lmao.

Like in the case of Knight amulet. Knights honestly isn't even that good. Try running knights on a class that has had significant damage nerfs like thief, warrior, ele or rev and you will do some very sub par damage. Knights amulet only did decent damage when using skills that had been forgotten/untouched from the damage-rework patch a few months ago. So why not just touch those skills instead? Strangely, in this case a lot of those skills actually did get touched on so removing knights is almost a moot point.

This requires too much work and thinking. Things Anet devs currently do very little of.

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@"Crab Fear.1624" said:If the amulet "is only used by one or two op builds", then it is not hurting anyone and just shutting down the OP builds.

I'm pretty sure Warriors were Also using it to stay some what viable as a side noder. The Removal of the amulet just pushed them off even more then before from being anything in this meta lol. Core Ranger won't be face tanking everything anymore however Pets are still doing insane of damage and Prot holo are still able to hold 1vsX on node.

Overall this Removal of amulets did what? Remove 1 class from getting any chance of play time possibly , Removed the option for rangers to be "tanky" but kept their DPS about the same with just 1 trait-line in Marksmen Ship getting nerf by 50%, and Virtually doing noting at all with Prot holo outside of a slightly nerf to dps on mortar and cd increase on passive traits.

but hey if everyone OK with this nerf then what can I really say? At this point Just give us 4 viable amulets to pick from and call it a day.

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