Guardian Hammer is useless

[otto.5684]

@oneguardian.4360 said:PvP? I agree completely. PvE? Wholeheartedly disagree. I run a mantra firebrand with a hammer for PvE and the sustained damage with the right traits, survivability, and ability to decimate a cc bar are all top notch. But again, PvE only.

PvE wise, hammer does the lowest damage of all weapons just ahead of LB. and the protection uptime has no purpose. I would argue it is PvP where is still could be used. PvE wise, it is nothing more than aesthetic.

[oneguardian.4360]

@otto.5684 said:

@"oneguardian.4360" said:PvP? I agree completely. PvE? Wholeheartedly disagree. I run a mantra firebrand with a hammer for PvE and the sustained damage with the right traits, survivability, and ability to decimate a cc bar are all top notch. But again, PvE only.

PvE wise, hammer does the lowest damage of all weapons just ahead of LB. and

the protection uptime has no purpose.

I would argue it is PvP where is still could be used. PvE wise, it is nothing more than aesthetic.

While I can understand some people not putting value on protection, why do you feel it has "no" purpose? Most of my hammer damage comes from stacking symbols. Using near-constant quickness allows me to keep 3 symbols running almost constantly on the ground, sometimes 4 (but not consistently 4). Those symbols add a tremendous amount of damage to using the hammer. I mean I suppose I'm just missing something when it comes to DPS. It's not something I monitor all the time. Just doesn't seem like the damage is as low as people say.

[otto.5684]

@oneguardian.4360 said:

@otto.5684 said:

@oneguardian.4360 said:PvP? I agree completely. PvE? Wholeheartedly disagree. I run a mantra firebrand with a hammer for PvE and the sustained damage with the right traits, survivability, and ability to decimate a cc bar are all top notch. But again, PvE only.

PvE wise, hammer does the lowest damage of all weapons just ahead of LB. and

the protection uptime has no purpose.

I would argue it is PvP where is still could be used. PvE wise, it is nothing more than aesthetic.

While I can understand some people not putting value on protection, why do you feel it has "no" purpose? Most of my hammer damage comes from stacking symbols. Using near-constant quickness allows me to keep 3 symbols running almost constantly on the ground, sometimes 4 (but not consistently 4). Those symbols add a tremendous amount of damage to using the hammer. I mean I suppose I'm just missing something when it comes to DPS. It's not something I monitor all the time. Just doesn't seem like the damage is as low as people say.

As far as protection, in most PvE group scenarios someone else will provide protection. If I am playing solo and going for suvivability, I would use mace + shield. The value of 3 blocks against a champion is unquestionable. And with valor you can easily get close to 100% protection with no quickness and significantly better maneuverability.

As for damage, GS does around 2x hammer damage. Sword/scepter deal much better damage. Arguably, so does mace. And all have better mobility and maneuverability.

Lastly, DH works much better with power builds than FB. So does core. Most definitely for groups, but also solo.

With the recent changes DH/virtues/radiance hammer 2 can quickly dispatch most trash. Better now than before. In any prolonged fights, not going to be great.

[Axelteas.7192]

Now that everybody agrees that hammer guardian is trash and dead after the patch, I expected some response from developers.

[otto.5684]

@Axelteas.7192 said:Now that everybody agrees that hammer guardian is trash and dead after the patch, I expected some response from developers.

It has been dead since the remake more than a year ago. If it is really shit instead of being shit, does it make any difference?

[miguelsil.6324]

Its pretty awesome in wvw so everything is fine. Other weapons are worthless in wvw for ex and good in pve or pvp

[Zeljius.9703]

Hammer on Guardian really needs to be buffed. There's a reason why its never used by 90% of Guardian mains.

For PvE, I love the weapon, as a whole, I love the weapon.But you know what I would love more? to be able to effectively use Hammer in PvP and WvW.

Currently as things stand Hammer gets outclassed by basically everything. Yeah the Damage on Mighty Blow is pretty solid, but given its obvious animation and now long cooldown, its not good. That paired with its painfully long, easily interruptable, and very demanding of a near stationary target to land and effectively utilize AA chain 3(Symbol of Protection) it has no really usable damage. Hammer 3 has very low damage and only a 2 second immobilize, whereas banish with its completely obvious visual queue of a windup time lost all its damage. I know they took damage away from all CC skills but Skillshots and very long windup skills that are much harder to land should get some if not all of their damage returned to them.

I recommend:

Hammer 1: Chain 1&2 damage increase by 10-15%Hammer 1: Symbol of Protection Cast 1 1/4s -> 1 Second

Mighty Blow: CD 10 seconds -> 8 seconds

Zealot's embrance: CD 15 seconds -> 12 seconds / Immobilize Time 2 seconds -> 3 seconds

Banish: Restore skill's damage

Ring of Warding: Allow cast while moving for the first 1/2 second of the 1 second cast time.

I feel like with these changes Hammer will probs still not be viable as it is generally a very clunky, slow, low range weapon.But at least with changes like these we could roll hammer out of the dead catagory of Guardian weapons.

On a separate note, I really hope ANet restores the cast time of LB3 back to 0.25sAnd on another, i'm still actively annoyed that Leap of Faith and Symbol of Wrath on GS are separate skills when One-hand Sword 2's Symbol of Blades is BASICALLY THOSE TWO SKILLS COMBINED. Pls combine GS skill 3 and 4 and give guardian GS a new skill, maybe a block Counter attack called Zealot's Offense or something.

[Nero.7369]

I love hammers in general, but guardians hammer could actually need some love.

@otto.5684 said:Hammer is:It is a bad CC weapon (both axe and LB are much better).It limited mobility.It has no effective sustain, defense or avoidance.

Totally agree on this.Damage imo is okayish. Hammer 2 actually deals still good damage. The issue lies only within the slowness of the other skills.

My basic ideas are:1 - Autoattacks: Make the chain faster2 - Mighty Blow: Increase the range a little bit, reduce cd to 8sec so its up with gs23 - Zealots Embrace: reduce casttime to 1/2 or 3/4 sec and increase the damage a bit4 - Banish: well its fun and you can use it for port stomps with the Intervention. But I never understood skills on a melee weapon that kick people away. Its disruptive for the own damage skills since they require melee range. The axe makes the job way better with pulling people in. To pull people with banish as well would be a great combination with the ring of warding. Unfortunately I think having the same basic mechanic is kinda boring. So how about making Banish a chain skill. First one is still Banish as it is, but after using it it unlocks a follow up skill for 10secs that allows the guardian to port after the banished target with no cast time. This way one doesnt have to waste valuable utility skills like Judges Intervention as a gap closer. This also could give some offensive boons for the follow up burst like might or fury.Another fun idea would be that ever other enemy that is hit by the enemy send flying will also be launched. Simliar to Berserkers Wild Blow.5 - Ring of Warding: could give AoE Protection and we should be able to use it on the go (awesome how the ring works on necro nowadays :))

[doogal.9368]

@"Ogwom.7940" said:There is no game mode that I use hammer on my guardian because there seems to be no use for it.It doesn't feel rewarding to play.I would hope they could address it one day.

What are your thoughts?

PVE for sure. I haven't honestly checked for pvp but I'm currently using hammer and staff. It's basically a constant symbol, though the 3rd swing is pretty slow. I"m looking to play around with Firebrand. All that quickness is sure to come in handy :)

[draxynnic.3719]

Hammer still works pretty well with a symbol-oriented sustain build. Sure, that's generally not what you want in group events and instances (although it can add a fair amount of sustain to a group, taking pressure off healers) but there have definitely been times when I've gone "yeah, what I need to get through this smoothly is a hammer symbols build".

Wouldn't object to improvements to skills 3-5, though.

@Zeljius.9703 said:And on another, i'm still actively annoyed that Leap of Faith and Symbol of Wrath on GS are separate skills when One-hand Sword 2's Symbol of Blades is BASICALLY THOSE TWO SKILLS COMBINED. Pls combine GS skill 3 and 4 and give guardian GS a new skill, maybe a block Counter attack called Zealot's Offense or something.

While part of the reason for that change was to make sure that every guardian weaponset had a symbol, if I recall correctly, it was also a factor that sword was underused and ArenaNet wanted to buff it. Given that greatsword is still the most popular power DPS weapon, I don't think ArenaNet is looking to buff it further.

Plus, if those skills were to be merged, it'd probably have the higher cooldown, decreasing overall mobility.

[Jimbru.6014]

With the possible exception of maces, hammers are probably the most neglected and underused main hand weapon in the game. Hammer is a primary weapon only for Scrappers and Revenants, and even then only in some builds. Among warriors and guardians, hammers are generally used only by noobs who haven't found better weapons yet.

[Axl.8924]

Hey while i'm at it any quick answers as to good leveling weapons? right now i'm sticking to staff for pve and all i have is 1 sword.

I think actually staff was a good accidental choice, since i seem to instantly get 15 might from1 ability and the other is group swiftness, plus it has heal.

I'm guessing staff is support all the way?

[phokus.8934]

It's such a bad weapon that the RPers stopped using it.

[Jimbru.6014]

@Axl.8924 said:Hey while i'm at it any quick answers as to good leveling weapons? right now i'm sticking to staff for pve and all i have is 1 sword.

I think actually staff was a good accidental choice, since i seem to instantly get 15 might from1 ability and the other is group swiftness, plus it has heal.

I'm guessing staff is support all the way?

Staff is a decent utility weapon while you're leveling, but later in life it becomes more a support tool than a weapon.

As far as good leveling weapons...well, pretty much whatever's handy. Greatsword is probably the most popular of all Guardian weapons, but sword + torch and scepter + focus are good combos. Mace and hammer are effective enough, but most people don't like how slow they are compared to other weapons.

[Arheundel.6451]

@"Ogwom.7940" said:There is no game mode that I use hammer on my guardian because there seems to be no use for it.It doesn't feel rewarding to play.I would hope they could address it one day.

What are your thoughts?

It's a burst weapon with amazing burst on skill 2-3, it requires set up and it's not an "every day DPS" weapon like GS, yeah GS is DPS and hammer is pure burst and like every burst build..once used you retreat/swap and wait for CD. Your thread made me try the weapon and I was shocked by the dmg burst I could reach with a marauder/radiance in PvP and I am sure now to find a more tanky version for PvP/WvW thx for the head up

[otto.5684]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"Ogwom.7940" said:There is no game mode that I use hammer on my guardian because there seems to be no use for it.It doesn't feel rewarding to play.I would hope they could address it one day.

What are your thoughts?

It's a burst weapon with amazing burst on skill 2-3, it requires set up and it's not an "every day DPS" weapon like GS, yeah GS is DPS and hammer is pure burst and like every burst build..once used you retreat/swap and wait for CD. Your thread made me try the weapon and I was shocked by the dmg burst I could reach with a marauder/radiance in PvP and I am sure now to find a more tanky version for PvP/WvW thx for the head up

Skill 3 does close to no damage. GS skill 2 does at least 2x hammer 2 damage (probably closer to 3x in PvE being able to cast it inside the target). Heck, sword burst is much better. In PvE it no doubt is. And in PvP hammer 2 has 10 secs CD, LMAO.

Do not play hammer. Okay, if you like the aesthetic knock yourself out in OW PvE, but never anywhere else.

[Kathkere.3068]

My issue with the hammer is that it feels so clunky. Including the Symbol of Protection into the weapon chain feels off. Skill 5 feels extremely gimmicky and could easily be replaced by something else. In my opinion, what I would like to see is:1: a weapon chain that has a consistent attack timer on all 3 attacks. Remove the Symbol of Protection.2: Remove skill 5 entirely and replace it by a ranged ability (900 range perhaps) that spawns a Symbol of Protection in addition to doing something else, be it AoE damage or incur a 1 second daze to the targets struck or something. Imagine a Thor-like animation, raising the hammer and calling down wrath from the sky.

Although number 5 could pretty much be anything and I'd be satisfied, I was just playing let's pretend with my wishes. As long as the weapon chain remains the way it is I don't think I'll ever be able to enjoy 2H Hammer. It's just too clunky.

[Roku.1852]

@otto.5684 said:Hammer is:

It is a bad damage weapon.It is a bad CC weapon (both axe and LB are much better).It limited mobility.It has no effective sustain, defense or avoidance.

Guardian's hammer is obsolete, and one of the worst weapons in the game

I disagree. Not all weapons have sustain. Does Guardian greatsword have sustain? How about swrord? I think the auto attack chains are too slow, but with firebrand build you can speed it up with haste. It has protection on 3 auto swing. I use it in PvE and find great success with it. Its also fun to use

[Roku.1852]

@otto.5684 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"Ogwom.7940" said:There is no game mode that I use hammer on my guardian because there seems to be no use for it.It doesn't feel rewarding to play.I would hope they could address it one day.

What are your thoughts?

It's a burst weapon with amazing burst on skill 2-3, it requires set up and it's not an "every day DPS" weapon like GS, yeah GS is DPS and hammer is pure burst and like every burst build..once used you retreat/swap and wait for CD. Your thread made me try the weapon and I was shocked by the dmg burst I could reach with a marauder/radiance in PvP and I am sure now to find a more tanky version for PvP/WvW thx for the head up

Skill 3 does close to no damage. GS skill 2 does at least 2x hammer 2 damage (probably closer to 3x in PvE being able to cast it inside the target). Heck, sword burst is much better. In PvE it no doubt is. And in PvP hammer 2 has 10 secs CD, LMAO.

Do not play hammer. Okay, if you like the aesthetic knock yourself out in OW PvE, but never anywhere else.

I remember the days when hammer was widely used in WvW.

[Roku.1852]

edit: misquoted

[Roku.1852]

@otto.5684 said:Hammer is:

It is a bad damage weapon.It is a bad CC weapon (both axe and LB are much better).It limited mobility.It has no effective sustain, defense or avoidance.

Guardian's hammer is obsolete, and one of the worst weapons in the game

the reasons you give are laughable. Does scepter have mobility? I don't see why hammer cant be used with the right build to enhance its weaknesses. #meta_builds_for_life amirite?

[Roku.1852]

@"Mikhael.2391" said:

I have not played since christmas but heres my gameplay with hammer. Try it in wvw

That combo at 7:10 was absolutely awesome. See this is a prime example of how the hammer is op. well done

[Dante.1508]

It was quite popular at release but took nerfs i guess.

[otto.5684]

@Roku.1852 said:

@otto.5684 said:Hammer is:

It is a bad damage weapon.It is a bad CC weapon (both axe and LB are much better).It limited mobility.It has no effective sustain, defense or avoidance.

Guardian's hammer is obsolete, and one of the worst weapons in the game

the reasons you give are laughable. Does scepter have mobility? I don't see why hammer cant be used with the right build to enhance its weaknesses. #meta_builds_for_life amirite?

Mmmm. It is a terrible weapon, but if you like it, feel free. That does not change that it is an absolutely terrible weapon that is not good for anything.

[Roku.1852]

Lol. Good argument. Very logical reasoning. Its funny because I just watched a video of a hammer guardian doing vale guardian. Hammer is not good though so he probably got luck that him and his group happened to clear it. Its not like with certain traits you can get 100%, yes 100% uptime on protection.