Thief's main role?

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

I can tell; thief's main job is taking and processing complaints in a progressive manner. At least every 3rd game or so, there's someone who obviously knows better than you do, what exactly you're supposed to be doing.

[Yasai.3549]

Thief's main role is to see how far they can go against the game's rules before Anet decides to cripple them the same way they did to Mesmer.

[kash.9213]

@Yasai.3549 said:Thief's main role is to see how far they can go against the game's rules before Anet decides to cripple them the same way they did to Mesmer.

What are the games rules that thieves are breaking?

[Zacchary.6183]

@kash.9213 said:

@"Yasai.3549" said:Thief's main role is to see how far they can go against the game's rules before Anet decides to cripple them the same way they did to Mesmer.

What are the games rules that thieves are breaking?

The "Don't kill me" rule.

EDIT: In all seriousness though, they're not breaking any rules. It literally is people's inability to fight against a system they have a hard time countering. It would help if they learned. Or anet could give every profession an initiative system.

[ferbz.6987]

Run from rangers, nvm, they have 1500 range and amazing mobility

[Carnifex.3275]

I assume that's another rant about stealth? .. This is ridiculous. K. Nerf us more it's not like we need anything anyway. We can be naked and using Shortbow#5 that's all there is to thief. Just run and run without really being able to 1v1 properly.

[Tails.9372]

Thief's main role?Whipping boy.

[BelchyMcFartFace.1240]

@"Yasai.3549" said:Thief's main role is to see how far they can go against the game's rules before Anet decides to cripple them the same way they did to Mesmer.

I don't see how thief can go against Anet's "rules" since they code the rules into the game. Unless you are talking about exploits or other hacks which isn't really the topic the OP posted about. I was a little confused by this statement.

Salt Warning:I mostly WvW these days because I'm trying to learn PvP and it has been extremely frustrating. To Yasai's point about thief getting crippled more than mesmer, my feeling is that thief is already more crippled than mesmer. I've never been able to beat anyone 1v1 with thief ever and that goes double for mesmers. It seems like mesmers do everything that I thought thieves were supposed to do but do it much better. So I run with zergs and pick off dying bodies that the zerg has run over. Thief is the guy that bayonets the dying soldiers on the battlefield after the battle is over. THAT is thiefs role. I keep thinking that I just haven't figured something out because even other thieves kick my rear end. Anyway, for me that is thief's role. Dying body sticker so you don't have to slowly bleed out. Thieve's send you back to rez point so you can start the cycle all over again much more quickly. Oh and running away. Thief is aces at running away from every other class.

[ASP.8093]

@BelchyMcFartFace.1240 said:

@"Yasai.3549" said:Thief's main role is to see how far they can go against the game's rules before Anet decides to cripple them the same way they did to Mesmer.

I don't see how thief can go against Anet's "rules" since they code the rules into the game. Unless you are talking about exploits or other hacks which isn't really the topic the OP posted about. I was a little confused by this statement.

The point is that the game has a baseline of how things are "supposed to" work, and then a lot of what makes classes interesting is how they break that baseline: insta-cast skills, teleports, resetting cooldowns, ranged attacks that don't use projectiles, &c. Thief and mesmer both excel at stealth and teleportation, which makes both playing them and fighting them a very distinct experience.

This isn't bad — it's the lifeblood of the game, same as any other profession's differences (except maybe a self-defeating class mechanic or two that really needs to be rethought) — but it's what turns thief into the salt miner class, with folks constantly posting variations of "UNIQUE CLASS MECHANIC OP, MAKE IT NORMAL" online.

[Tails.9372]

@"ASP.8093" said:the game has a baseline of how things are "supposed to" work, and then a lot of what makes classes interesting is how they break that baselineYeah, every time someone comes up with a build that A: isn't intended and B: actually has a decent amount of viability A-Net tries to hammer it down as hard as possible collateral damage be damned.

But I'd argue that this isn't just limited to "unintended things". I really want to have the responsible game designer explain pistol on thief to me. The weapon set is just a dumpster fire with an identity crisis (that still got nerfed despite the fact that it was already an irrelevant gimmick by that time). At this point they should just rework the weapon set and turn the focus of pistol as a whole into power damage while also giving thief a torch as a proper mid range condi weapon for the next e-spec.

[saerni.2584]

@Tails.9372 said:

@"ASP.8093" said:the game has a baseline of how things are "supposed to" work, and then a lot of what makes classes interesting is how they

break

that baselineYeah, every time someone comes up with a build that A: isn't intended and B: actually has a decent amount of viability A-Net tries to hammer it down as hard as possible collateral damage be damned.

But I'd argue that this isn't just limited to "unintended things". I really want to have the responsible game designer explain pistol on thief to me. The weapon set is just a dumpster fire with an identity crisis (that still got nerfed despite the fact that it was already an irrelevant gimmick by that time). At this point they should just rework the weapon set and turn the focus of pistol as a whole into power damage while also giving thief a torch as a proper mid range condi weapon for the next e-spec.

Pistol is a hybrid weapon. Build it for power or condi only and it won’t do as well as building for both.

Offhand Dagger is also hybridized damage. So if you take P/D you will achieve the best results if you try to mix your stats.

[Tails.9372]

@"saerni.2584" said:Pistol is a hybrid weapon.Which makes no sense to begin with given how pistols actually work, unlike with dagger where it at least fits the theme of the weapon. And no, it does without further investment considerably more power damage then condi (Repeater damage at base is ~66% power / ~33% condi, Vital Shot at base is ~75% power / ~25% condi). It just does enough condi damage to make condi or better "hybrid" a viable choice if you sufficiently invest into it.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

@Tails.9372 said:

@saerni.2584 said:Pistol is a hybrid weapon.Which makes no sense to begin with given how pistols actually work, unlike with dagger where it at least fits the theme of the weapon.So death by blood loss due to being shot isn't something one should worry about then?

[Tails.9372]

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@Tails.9372 said:

@"saerni.2584" said:Pistol is a hybrid weapon.Which makes no sense to begin with given how pistols actually work, unlike with dagger where it at least fits the theme of the weapon.So death by blood loss due to being shot isn't something one should worry about then?Not in regards to the damage focus of the weapon, going by that logic weapons like the hammer should be "condi hybrids" too because they cause internal bleeding. Even for axes it would make way more sense for their attacks to cause "bleeding" wounds and iirc most axe related skills either don't have a strong condi focus through bleeding or don't cause bleeding at all.

If you want a weapon for mid range condi gameplay then torch would make way more sense and if you want a weapon for proper (as in 50/50) mid ranged hybrid gameplay then scepter would be a more fitting choice.

[Sindrener.1592]

Thief role? Hypercarry, chessmaster

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

Thief role is to role play as an annoying wasp by stining innocent people who afk on nodes or zerglings running back to their beehive

[saerni.2584]

@Tails.9372 said:

@"saerni.2584" said:Pistol is a hybrid weapon.Which makes no sense to begin with given how pistols actually work, unlike with dagger where it at least fits the theme of the weapon. And no, it does without further investment considerably more power damage then condi (Repeater damage at base is ~66% power / ~33% condi, Vital Shot at base is ~75% power / ~25% condi). It just does enough condi damage to make condi or better "hybrid" a viable choice if you sufficiently invest into it.

Of course you have to invest in it. And the numbers should also take into account the potential torment or poison that can be applied when you build out as a hybrid.

Today, you can go full power or full hybrid using Berserker or Grieving stats. Cutting that with some Valk/Maurader (or runes like Divinity) or mixing in some Carrion, respectively, will make each choice less glassy but safer to play.

Hybrid damage smoothes out the DPS curve. It won’t spike as high as pure power, but it will stay high-ish longer, so it still has a respectable advantage in damage overall.

[Roche.7491]

@BelchyMcFartFace.1240 said:

@"Yasai.3549" said:Thief's main role is to see how far they can go against the game's rules before Anet decides to cripple them the same way they did to Mesmer.

I don't see how thief can go against Anet's "rules" since they code the rules into the game. Unless you are talking about exploits or other hacks which isn't really the topic the OP posted about. I was a little confused by this statement.

Salt Warning:I mostly WvW these days because I'm trying to learn PvP and it has been extremely frustrating. To Yasai's point about thief getting crippled more than mesmer, my feeling is that thief is already more crippled than mesmer. I've never been able to beat anyone 1v1 with thief ever and that goes double for mesmers. It seems like mesmers do everything that I thought thieves were supposed to do but do it much better. So I run with zergs and pick off dying bodies that the zerg has run over. Thief is the guy that bayonets the dying soldiers on the battlefield after the battle is over. THAT is thiefs role. I keep thinking that I just haven't figured something out because even other thieves kick my rear end. Anyway, for me that is thief's role. Dying body sticker so you don't have to slowly bleed out. Thieve's send you back to rez point so you can start the cycle all over again much more quickly. Oh and running away. Thief is aces at running away from every other class.

“Bayonets downed people” is so true.

Let’s hope the next class after daredevil and deadeye is an assassin who kills people in an instant.