SIGNET OF ILLUSION CHANGE

[Leonidrex.5649]

Currently the utility skill Signet of Illusions can setup sustained-distortion uptime that is too long and creates an unhealthy, unbalanced, and unfun gameplay experience. Therefore to limit the rate that this skill can be abused the following changes are proposed.Skills:Signet of Illusions:This skill's recharge is reduced from 60 seconds to 50 seconds. This skill now recharges shatters based on the number of active clones you have summoned. 0 Clones will reset Mind Wrack. 1 Clone will reset Mind Wrack and Cry of Frustration. 2 Clones will reset Mind Wrack, Cry of Frustration, and Diversion. 3 Clones will reset Mind Wrack, Cry of Frustration, Diverison, and Distortion. When Chronomancer traitline is active: 1 clone will reset Split Second, 2 clones will reset Split Second and Rewinder, 3 clones will reset Split Second, Rewinder, and Time Sink.

This will allow players to reset their f1-f2 skills for a burst, if necessary, but force them to manage their skills and clones better to get optimal value of the skill and reset f3-f4 skills. Currently it is too easy to combine this skill with Distortion to have a permanent invulnerability. By tying the functionality of this skill to the number of active clones, it creates a more dynamic, engaging, and fun gameplay experience.

[ArlAlt.1630]

Deja vu!The agents are coming!

[Kuma.1503]

Interesting. You nerf signet of illusions, while also making it more fun and skillful to use. I'd be all for this.Also, give mirage its dodge back.

[Quadox.7834]

absolutely not

[Leonidrex.5649]

@miracleHat.2435 here you go :D

[bravan.3876]

Me getting flashbacks from when i suggested to just exclude f4 reset from it, give it a bit less cd (like -5-10s) and a little bit shorter casttime. And ofc only based on giving Mirage 2 dodges back. This would give Mesmers also a little bit more freeedom of choice in utilities back. Atm this signet is mandatory to use to survive, in particular on Mirage. Makes at least 2 utilities mandatory, including Portal even 3. Much build diverity in utilities.But hell, i was eaten alive by Mesmer mains! Means don't eat that bait, Mesmer mains already sharpen their knifes! IT'S A TRAP!

Still: On the first view the suggestion here sounds interesting but clone uptime is too rdm and not only in Mesmers hand to make this active, tactical and skillful to use from the Mesmers PoV. But Anet prefers low iq and low skill ceiling builds, and like to kill tactical deepness and mechanical complexity and dumb down stuff, in particular Mesmer builds, to satisfy their casuals who want to play without using brain, means i would not be surprise about another nonsense change like that to Mesmer. Aside from the already suggested skill lock out on f4 ofc :joy:

[Leonidrex.5649]

@bravan.3876 said:Me getting flashbacks from when i suggested to just exclude f4 reset from it, give it a bit less cd (like -5-10s) and a little bit shorter casttime. And ofc only based on giving Mirage 2 dodges back. This would give Mesmers also a little bit more freeedom of choice in utilities back. Atm this sigil is mandatory to use to survive, in particular on Mirage. Makes at least 2 utilities mandatory, including Portal even 3. Much build diverity in utilities.But hell, i was eaten alive by Mesmer mains! Means don't eat that bait, Mesmer mains already sharpen their knifes! IT'S A TRAP!

Still: On the first view the suggestion here sounds interesting but clone uptime is too rdm and not only in Mesmers hand to make this active, tactical and skillful to use from the Mesmers PoV. But Anet prefers low iq and low skill ceiling builds, and like to kill tactical deepness and mechanical complexity and dumb down stuff, in particular Mesmer builds, to satisfy their casuals who want to play without using brain, means i would not be surprise about another nonsense change like that to Mesmer. Aside from the already suggested skill lock out on f4 ofc :joy:

im just farming karma on nerf mesmer posts dont mind me xd

[bravan.3876]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@bravan.3876 said:Me getting flashbacks from when i suggested to just exclude f4 reset from it, give it a bit less cd (like -5-10s) and a little bit shorter casttime. And ofc only based on giving Mirage 2 dodges back. This would give Mesmers also a little bit more freeedom of choice in utilities back. Atm this sigil is mandatory to use to survive, in particular on Mirage. Makes at least 2 utilities mandatory, including Portal even 3. Much build diverity in utilities.But hell, i was eaten alive by Mesmer mains! Means don't eat that bait, Mesmer mains already sharpen their knifes! IT'S A TRAP!

Still: On the first view the suggestion here sounds interesting but clone uptime is too rdm and not only in Mesmers hand to make this active, tactical and skillful to use from the Mesmers PoV. But Anet prefers low iq and low skill ceiling builds, and like to kill tactical deepness and mechanical complexity and dumb down stuff, in particular Mesmer builds, to satisfy their casuals who want to play without using brain, means i would not be surprise about another nonsense change like that to Mesmer. Aside from the already suggested skill lock out on f4 ofc :joy:

im just farming karma on nerf mesmer posts dont mind me xd

Yes i got you. Also makes sense when considering how important and life changing forum karma is. I think only Reddit karma could be more important to me and my good mood :joy:

[Leonidrex.5649]

@bravan.3876 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@bravan.3876 said:Me getting flashbacks from when i suggested to just exclude f4 reset from it, give it a bit less cd (like -5-10s) and a little bit shorter casttime. And ofc only based on giving Mirage 2 dodges back. This would give Mesmers also a little bit more freeedom of choice in utilities back. Atm this sigil is mandatory to use to survive, in particular on Mirage. Makes at least 2 utilities mandatory, including Portal even 3. Much build diverity in utilities.But hell, i was eaten alive by Mesmer mains! Means don't eat that bait, Mesmer mains already sharpen their knifes! IT'S A TRAP!

Still: On the first view the suggestion here sounds interesting but clone uptime is too rdm and not only in Mesmers hand to make this active, tactical and skillful to use from the Mesmers PoV. But Anet prefers low iq and low skill ceiling builds, and like to kill tactical deepness and mechanical complexity and dumb down stuff, in particular Mesmer builds, to satisfy their casuals who want to play without using brain, means i would not be surprise about another nonsense change like that to Mesmer. Aside from the already suggested skill lock out on f4 ofc :joy:

im just farming karma on nerf mesmer posts dont mind me xd

Yes i got you. Also makes sense when considering how important and life changing forum karma is. I think only Reddit karma could be more important to me and my good mood :joy:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/104353/signet-of-illusion-change#latestxd

[bravan.3876]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@bravan.3876 said:Me getting flashbacks from when i suggested to just exclude f4 reset from it, give it a bit less cd (like -5-10s) and a little bit shorter casttime. And ofc only based on giving Mirage 2 dodges back. This would give Mesmers also a little bit more freeedom of choice in utilities back. Atm this sigil is mandatory to use to survive, in particular on Mirage. Makes at least 2 utilities mandatory, including Portal even 3. Much build diverity in utilities.But hell, i was eaten alive by Mesmer mains! Means don't eat that bait, Mesmer mains already sharpen their knifes! IT'S A TRAP!

Still: On the first view the suggestion here sounds interesting but clone uptime is too rdm and not only in Mesmers hand to make this active, tactical and skillful to use from the Mesmers PoV. But Anet prefers low iq and low skill ceiling builds, and like to kill tactical deepness and mechanical complexity and dumb down stuff, in particular Mesmer builds, to satisfy their casuals who want to play without using brain, means i would not be surprise about another nonsense change like that to Mesmer. Aside from the already suggested skill lock out on f4 ofc :joy:

im just farming karma on nerf mesmer posts dont mind me xd

Yes i got you. Also makes sense when considering how important and life changing forum karma is. I think only Reddit karma could be more important to me and my good mood :joy:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/104353/signet-of-illusion-change#latest

xd

I know why i don't read class subforums most of the time... not only class hater nerf suggestions but also class main buff suggestions often blow my mind.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@bravan.3876 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@bravan.3876 said:Me getting flashbacks from when i suggested to just exclude f4 reset from it, give it a bit less cd (like -5-10s) and a little bit shorter casttime. And ofc only based on giving Mirage 2 dodges back. This would give Mesmers also a little bit more freeedom of choice in utilities back. Atm this sigil is mandatory to use to survive, in particular on Mirage. Makes at least 2 utilities mandatory, including Portal even 3. Much build diverity in utilities.But hell, i was eaten alive by Mesmer mains! Means don't eat that bait, Mesmer mains already sharpen their knifes! IT'S A TRAP!

Still: On the first view the suggestion here sounds interesting but clone uptime is too rdm and not only in Mesmers hand to make this active, tactical and skillful to use from the Mesmers PoV. But Anet prefers low iq and low skill ceiling builds, and like to kill tactical deepness and mechanical complexity and dumb down stuff, in particular Mesmer builds, to satisfy their casuals who want to play without using brain, means i would not be surprise about another nonsense change like that to Mesmer. Aside from the already suggested skill lock out on f4 ofc :joy:

im just farming karma on nerf mesmer posts dont mind me xd

Yes i got you. Also makes sense when considering how important and life changing forum karma is. I think only Reddit karma could be more important to me and my good mood :joy:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/104353/signet-of-illusion-change#latest

xd

I know why i don't read class subforums most of the time... not only class hater nerf suggestions but also class main buff suggestions often blow my mind.

and mandatory OUR CLASS GOT DELETED after small justified nerf, just look at ranger forum kekW

[bravan.3876]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@bravan.3876 said:Me getting flashbacks from when i suggested to just exclude f4 reset from it, give it a bit less cd (like -5-10s) and a little bit shorter casttime. And ofc only based on giving Mirage 2 dodges back. This would give Mesmers also a little bit more freeedom of choice in utilities back. Atm this sigil is mandatory to use to survive, in particular on Mirage. Makes at least 2 utilities mandatory, including Portal even 3. Much build diverity in utilities.But hell, i was eaten alive by Mesmer mains! Means don't eat that bait, Mesmer mains already sharpen their knifes! IT'S A TRAP!

Still: On the first view the suggestion here sounds interesting but clone uptime is too rdm and not only in Mesmers hand to make this active, tactical and skillful to use from the Mesmers PoV. But Anet prefers low iq and low skill ceiling builds, and like to kill tactical deepness and mechanical complexity and dumb down stuff, in particular Mesmer builds, to satisfy their casuals who want to play without using brain, means i would not be surprise about another nonsense change like that to Mesmer. Aside from the already suggested skill lock out on f4 ofc :joy:

im just farming karma on nerf mesmer posts dont mind me xd

Yes i got you. Also makes sense when considering how important and life changing forum karma is. I think only Reddit karma could be more important to me and my good mood :joy:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/104353/signet-of-illusion-change#latest

xd

I know why i don't read class subforums most of the time... not only class hater nerf suggestions but also class main buff suggestions often blow my mind.

and mandatory OUR CLASS GOT DELETED after small justified nerf, just look at ranger forum kekW

I guess they think they are overnerfed, while actually nothing rly happend to them? I mean the changes on paper looked good, i am just wondering if Anet only changed tooltips and forgot to implement the changes in the skills themself. Even nerfed tiger and gazelle feel the same not to mention that i expected a bigger effect of the 25% less dmg on the marksmanship multiplier (Attack of Opportunity) but i actually cannot see less dmg on my Ranger and my pets.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@bravan.3876 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@bravan.3876 said:Me getting flashbacks from when i suggested to just exclude f4 reset from it, give it a bit less cd (like -5-10s) and a little bit shorter casttime. And ofc only based on giving Mirage 2 dodges back. This would give Mesmers also a little bit more freeedom of choice in utilities back. Atm this sigil is mandatory to use to survive, in particular on Mirage. Makes at least 2 utilities mandatory, including Portal even 3. Much build diverity in utilities.But hell, i was eaten alive by Mesmer mains! Means don't eat that bait, Mesmer mains already sharpen their knifes! IT'S A TRAP!

Still: On the first view the suggestion here sounds interesting but clone uptime is too rdm and not only in Mesmers hand to make this active, tactical and skillful to use from the Mesmers PoV. But Anet prefers low iq and low skill ceiling builds, and like to kill tactical deepness and mechanical complexity and dumb down stuff, in particular Mesmer builds, to satisfy their casuals who want to play without using brain, means i would not be surprise about another nonsense change like that to Mesmer. Aside from the already suggested skill lock out on f4 ofc :joy:

im just farming karma on nerf mesmer posts dont mind me xd

Yes i got you. Also makes sense when considering how important and life changing forum karma is. I think only Reddit karma could be more important to me and my good mood :joy:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/104353/signet-of-illusion-change#latest

xd

I know why i don't read class subforums most of the time... not only class hater nerf suggestions but also class main buff suggestions often blow my mind.

and mandatory OUR CLASS GOT DELETED after small justified nerf, just look at ranger forum kekW

I guess they think they are overnerfed, while actually nothing rly happend to them? I mean the changes on paper looked good, i am just wondering if Anet only changed tooltips and forgot to implement the changes in the skills themself. Even nerfed tiger and gazelle feel the same not to mention that i expected a bigger effect of the 25% less dmg on the marksmanship multiplier (Attack of Opportunity) but i actually cannot see less dmg on my Ranger and my pets.

if you land 6k maul with 50% dmg bonus, it turns into 5k maul with 25% bonus, so ofc its not a big deal, and rest of the nerfs is useless since rangers just use bird and smokescale now, meaning nothing really changed :D

[bravan.3876]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@bravan.3876 said:Me getting flashbacks from when i suggested to just exclude f4 reset from it, give it a bit less cd (like -5-10s) and a little bit shorter casttime. And ofc only based on giving Mirage 2 dodges back. This would give Mesmers also a little bit more freeedom of choice in utilities back. Atm this sigil is mandatory to use to survive, in particular on Mirage. Makes at least 2 utilities mandatory, including Portal even 3. Much build diverity in utilities.But hell, i was eaten alive by Mesmer mains! Means don't eat that bait, Mesmer mains already sharpen their knifes! IT'S A TRAP!

Still: On the first view the suggestion here sounds interesting but clone uptime is too rdm and not only in Mesmers hand to make this active, tactical and skillful to use from the Mesmers PoV. But Anet prefers low iq and low skill ceiling builds, and like to kill tactical deepness and mechanical complexity and dumb down stuff, in particular Mesmer builds, to satisfy their casuals who want to play without using brain, means i would not be surprise about another nonsense change like that to Mesmer. Aside from the already suggested skill lock out on f4 ofc :joy:

im just farming karma on nerf mesmer posts dont mind me xd

Yes i got you. Also makes sense when considering how important and life changing forum karma is. I think only Reddit karma could be more important to me and my good mood :joy:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/104353/signet-of-illusion-change#latest

xd

I know why i don't read class subforums most of the time... not only class hater nerf suggestions but also class main buff suggestions often blow my mind.

and mandatory OUR CLASS GOT DELETED after small justified nerf, just look at ranger forum kekW

I guess they think they are overnerfed, while actually nothing rly happend to them? I mean the changes on paper looked good, i am just wondering if Anet only changed tooltips and forgot to implement the changes in the skills themself. Even nerfed tiger and gazelle feel the same not to mention that i expected a bigger effect of the 25% less dmg on the marksmanship multiplier (Attack of Opportunity) but i actually cannot see less dmg on my Ranger and my pets.

if you land 6k maul with 50% dmg bonus, it turns into 5k maul with 25% bonus, so ofc its not a big deal, and rest of the nerfs is useless since rangers just use bird and smokescale now, meaning nothing really changed :D

I use gazelle and smokescale and also feel no difference

[Leonidrex.5649]

@"bravan.3876" wouldnt be the first time devs bamboozle people to have them shut up, but its hard to really gauge things like that on the "feel" and since we cant go to the past and test it.... and I doubt anyone care to actually sit with notepad, count coof + power + weapon str and calcualte the hits

[bravan.3876]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@"bravan.3876" wouldnt be the first time devs bamboozle people to have them shut up, but its hard to really gauge things like that on the "feel" and since we cant go to the past and test it.... and I doubt anyone care to actually sit with notepad, count coof + power + weapon str and calcualte the hits

That is true, it is only feeling from playing the class. I have the same feeling with Necro btw. Normally changes, in particular changes look high on paper had more impact. I am just confused about the last patch.

[ArlAlt.1630]

@bravan.3876 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@bravan.3876 said:Me getting flashbacks from when i suggested to just exclude f4 reset from it, give it a bit less cd (like -5-10s) and a little bit shorter casttime. And ofc only based on giving Mirage 2 dodges back. This would give Mesmers also a little bit more freeedom of choice in utilities back. Atm this sigil is mandatory to use to survive, in particular on Mirage. Makes at least 2 utilities mandatory, including Portal even 3. Much build diverity in utilities.But hell, i was eaten alive by Mesmer mains! Means don't eat that bait, Mesmer mains already sharpen their knifes! IT'S A TRAP!

Still: On the first view the suggestion here sounds interesting but clone uptime is too rdm and not only in Mesmers hand to make this active, tactical and skillful to use from the Mesmers PoV. But Anet prefers low iq and low skill ceiling builds, and like to kill tactical deepness and mechanical complexity and dumb down stuff, in particular Mesmer builds, to satisfy their casuals who want to play without using brain, means i would not be surprise about another nonsense change like that to Mesmer. Aside from the already suggested skill lock out on f4 ofc :joy:

im just farming karma on nerf mesmer posts dont mind me xd

Yes i got you. Also makes sense when considering how important and life changing forum karma is. I think only Reddit karma could be more important to me and my good mood :joy:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/104353/signet-of-illusion-change#latest

xd

I know why i don't read class subforums most of the time... not only class hater nerf suggestions but also class main buff suggestions often blow my mind.

and mandatory OUR CLASS GOT DELETED after small justified nerf, just look at ranger forum kekW

I guess they think they are overnerfed, while actually nothing rly happend to them? I mean the changes on paper looked good, i am just wondering if Anet only changed tooltips and forgot to implement the changes in the skills themself. Even nerfed tiger and gazelle feel the same not to mention that i expected a bigger effect of the 25% less dmg on the marksmanship multiplier (Attack of Opportunity) but i actually cannot see less dmg on my Ranger and my pets.

This won't be the first time ANet nerfed something on paper but forgot to actually code it. They will release a patch in 2 weeks with a "bug fix."

[bravan.3876]

@ArlAlt.1630 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@bravan.3876 said:Me getting flashbacks from when i suggested to just exclude f4 reset from it, give it a bit less cd (like -5-10s) and a little bit shorter casttime. And ofc only based on giving Mirage 2 dodges back. This would give Mesmers also a little bit more freeedom of choice in utilities back. Atm this sigil is mandatory to use to survive, in particular on Mirage. Makes at least 2 utilities mandatory, including Portal even 3. Much build diverity in utilities.But hell, i was eaten alive by Mesmer mains! Means don't eat that bait, Mesmer mains already sharpen their knifes! IT'S A TRAP!

Still: On the first view the suggestion here sounds interesting but clone uptime is too rdm and not only in Mesmers hand to make this active, tactical and skillful to use from the Mesmers PoV. But Anet prefers low iq and low skill ceiling builds, and like to kill tactical deepness and mechanical complexity and dumb down stuff, in particular Mesmer builds, to satisfy their casuals who want to play without using brain, means i would not be surprise about another nonsense change like that to Mesmer. Aside from the already suggested skill lock out on f4 ofc :joy:

im just farming karma on nerf mesmer posts dont mind me xd

Yes i got you. Also makes sense when considering how important and life changing forum karma is. I think only Reddit karma could be more important to me and my good mood :joy:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/104353/signet-of-illusion-change#latest

xd

I know why i don't read class subforums most of the time... not only class hater nerf suggestions but also class main buff suggestions often blow my mind.

and mandatory OUR CLASS GOT DELETED after small justified nerf, just look at ranger forum kekW

I guess they think they are overnerfed, while actually nothing rly happend to them? I mean the changes on paper looked good, i am just wondering if Anet only changed tooltips and forgot to implement the changes in the skills themself. Even nerfed tiger and gazelle feel the same not to mention that i expected a bigger effect of the 25% less dmg on the marksmanship multiplier (Attack of Opportunity) but i actually cannot see less dmg on my Ranger and my pets.

This won't be the first time ANet nerfed something on paper but forgot to actually code it. They will release a patch in 2 weeks with a "bug fix."

Lets hope the bug fix includes a pseudo nerf to birds, just for the paper you know :joy:

[Allarius.5670]

I get it, skills that allow a class to double up on other skills are problematic because (1) it apparently creates poor gameplay interaction (I didn't use my skills optimally the first go around, but now I can do it again), (2) promotes careless spam-oriented gameplay at lower tiers (see 1), (3) creates balance scenarios where the re-chargeable skills have a forced effectiveness cap due to the ability to recharge them, and (4) lots of other stuff I'm sure.

This really is a design principle, so if Signet of Illusions is going to be hit it makes sense to look across all professions for similar interactions: Chronophantasma, Continuum Split, Mimic, Improvisation, Renewed Focus, and any others (or similar mechanics) not mentioned. You could even just give them all the Signet of Ether treatment and set the recharge at 50% rather than 100%, but I'd much prefer reworks. But ... only Signet of Illusions is problematic? Yeah, if we are looking at what these skills do to the gameplay environment, I don't buy that at all, regardless of whether or not they overperform. That is the argument, afterall, isn't it? Its not whether a particular build or profession is overperforming, but about how they impact the gameplay environment?

At this point, I think these are purposeful design choices made by the developers despite possible negative impact on the way the game feels. It means re-chargeable skills can be kept at a lower impact and practically force players to slot the recharge skill to unlock effectiveness. By this approach, it seems builds would be further constrained in realistic available options and made easier to balance regardless of the cost in build diversity. I doubt that sits well with players, but whatever. I don't know if it is a problem, and if it is, what the solution is. I just wish balancing and skill reworks could happen at a faster pace until ...? I dunno, until some kind of vague, unspecified goal is reached. I'm not entirely sure I'm aware of where we are heading after all. Are we there yet?

[Tayga.3192]

@Allarius.5670 said:I just wish balancing and skill reworks could happen at a faster pace until ...? I dunno, until some kind of vague, unspecified goal is reached. I'm not entirely sure I'm aware of where we are heading after all. Are we there yet?

GW2 PvP is still in beta

[Jhule.7230]

Forcing people to use AI as a mechanic is problematic and should not be relied upon like it has been, its either completetly useless or completetly busted as previous iterations have proven. I do not think that any profession should be forced into using AI/NPC interactions but thats my opinion.

[NotFound.7813]

@Kuma.1503 said:Interesting. You nerf signet of illusions, while also making it more fun and skillful to use. I'd be all for this.Also, give mirage its dodge back.This makes 0 sense xd Nerf an utility to bring back what makes mirage overpower

[ArlsTipsierAlt.9138]

@wevh.2903 said:

@Kuma.1503 said:Interesting. You nerf signet of illusions, while also making it more fun and skillful to use. I'd be all for this.Also, give mirage its dodge back.This makes 0 sense xd Nerf an utility to bring back what makes mirage overpower

No, no, you misunderstood. He proposes a Mirage nerf for the sake of Nerfs, so that people have no reason to complain about Mesmer. I support this line of thinking.