*major Spoilers* Eir Stegalkin

[xXMapcoXx.9614]

I was wondering about this for a while and seeing as its been years and enough people have played through HoT's story I feel its finally time to ask this...When Eir was killed why why didn't we revive her like we do to all the other npc that die..did we (as the player character) want her to stay dead?! Now I know we can ask the same of why didn't Braham do this, but lets be honest he isn't the brightest star in the sky if you know what I mean.

[Fenella.2634]

Canonically there are often dead bodies we can't interact with. I imagine those we can revive are actually just unconscious. Also, remember meeting Ceera in the PS? She, as a medic, could revive NPCs we could not.

Compare that to the downstate, where characters are definitely still conscious. They can still throw rocks and perform minor spells.

Well, and reviving Eir as a necro PC would have been possible, maybe... But tasteless and perhaps illegal.

[Taril.8619]

There's dead and there's dead dead.

Eir was dead dead.

As for why?

I dunno... Poor choice in story development (Again)?

Whereby they kill off Eir to churn out Emo Braham (The worst character to exist, ever) as opposed to creating an actual reasonable character development where Braham dies protecting Eir and thus Eir, after having only recently come to terms with the guilt over Snaff's death, now has to face the guilt of the death of her son (Whom she already regretted not playing a larger part in his life and was starting to reconnect with) as well as a surge of hatred after being betrayed by Faolain moments after saving her life.

[Dawdler.8521]

Her plot armor wasnt thick enough.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@xXMapcoXx.9614 said:When Eir was killed why why didn't we revive her like we do to all the other npc that die..did we (as the player character) want her to stay dead?! Now I know we can ask the same of why didn't Braham do this, but lets be honest he isn't the brightest star in the sky if you know what I mean.

@"Taril.8619" said:There's dead and there's dead dead.

Eir was dead dead.

As for why?

I dunno... Poor choice in story development (Again)?

Reviving is not the same as resurrection. In canon lore, any PC or NPC that is defeated (can be revived) is not dead, but merely unconscious. It is not that "there's dead and there's dead dead" it's that there's dead, and there's unconscious.

This is why the game refers to it as "defeated" and not "dead" - because the two are not the same. Though the recent change in defeated/downed icons on the world map also brought in a change of wording for the interaction, so it seems the newer devs were either unaware or uncaring about this decision by the original GW2 devs.

It was a change done for story development, but not for Braham's story or anything like that. It was because of constant jokes in other games about how there's a plot-related death, and players go "why can't I just resurrect them like I do my party all the time?" ANet's response was to remove resurrection from lore - or rather, make resurrection something that is no longer possible to be done in lore (with some rare exceptions, like seen in Path of Fire and Season 4). ANet decided to make death a permanent thing for both plot and player characters - so to differentiate players' health going to 0 from death, they called it the defeated state - that is, being unconscious.

If you're used to tabletop games, it might be easier to relate to the states of "disabled", "dying", "stable", and "dead". In GW2, the downed state is akin to disabled (conscious, bleeding out, and able to do limited moves including try to recover), and dead is dead which is either plot-driven or mook NPC-restricted; there is no equivalent to "dying" (unconscious and bleeding out), but the defeated state is akin to the "stable" state - a character is unconscious, but not bleeding out to death.

This is why we could not revive Eir - because she was not "defeated". She was dead. And resurrection is a thing that isn't possible except in very rare and unique cases, like Gaheron's or the plot-spoilery ones of PoF and S4.

[Thornwolf.9721]

Simple. A-net loathe norn and it seems they wana make us a joke race, with Eir still around that was impossible.

[Obliviscaris.6937]

@Thornwolf.9721 said:Simple. A-net loathe norn and it seems they wana make us a joke race, with Eir still around that was impossible.

This victim complex seems vastly misplaced.

She died because her guts were literally mashed up.

And A-net wanted to get across the point that all heroes die eventually. Except for Livia, who loses a bunch of weight and gets a bad haircut.

[Thornwolf.9721]

@Obliviscaris.6937 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:Simple. A-net loathe norn and it seems they wana make us a joke race, with Eir still around that was impossible.

This victim complex seems vastly misplaced.

She died because her guts were literally mashed up.

And A-net wanted to get across the point that all heroes die eventually. Except for Livia, who loses a bunch of weight and gets a bad haircut.

Alright Im assuming this is coming from what? Some one who doesn't even play norn, know their lore or EVEN KNOW eir's lore? This is the same norn who wrestled kralk, cut diamonds with her claws in bear form and had faced worse circumstances pre-HoT in various events. (She talks about many of them.) So no Eir was the last true norn we had up until Jhavi in personality, all the others are either bumbling drunks or just idiots who boast. Like we haven't even had enough norn focus in the Icebrood saga which is supposed to be a norn story, I guess charr became more interesting?

Its not a victim complex, its fact. The norn have played back-seat for the entirety of the game and have had very little focus or even achievements given to them, we had charr and asuran build the fleets for the pact. The sylvari both were the best weapon against zaithan and the greatest victims of mordremoth and then we had PoF which is ALL HUMAN stuff. Now we are getting mostly charr stuff with some norn tid-bits sprinkled ontop.

If this saga ends with it being charr focused the norn will not get another chance, this is our ONE chance for norn stuff to be really flushed out. Because once we go to cantha its gonna be almost 100% human lore again.

[Obliviscaris.6937]

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Obliviscaris.6937 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:Simple. A-net loathe norn and it seems they wana make us a joke race, with Eir still around that was impossible.

This victim complex seems vastly misplaced.

She died because her guts were literally mashed up.

And A-net wanted to get across the point that all heroes die eventually. Except for Livia, who loses a bunch of weight and gets a bad haircut.

Alright Im assuming this is coming from what? Some one who doesn't even play norn, know their lore or EVEN KNOW eir's lore? This is the same norn who wrestled kralk, cut diamonds with her claws in bear form and had faced worse circumstances pre-HoT in various events. (She talks about many of them.) So no Eir was the last true norn we had up until Jhavi in personality, all the others are either bumbling drunks or just idiots who boast. Like we haven't even had enough norn focus in the Icebrood saga which is supposed to be a norn story, I guess charr became more interesting?

Its not a victim complex, its fact. The norn have played back-seat for the entirety of the game and have had very little focus or even achievements given to them, we had charr and asuran build the fleets for the pact. The sylvari both were the best weapon against zaithan and the greatest victims of mordremoth and then we had PoF which is ALL HUMAN stuff. Now we are getting mostly charr stuff with some norn tid-bits sprinkled ontop.

If this saga ends with it being charr focused the norn will not get another chance, this is our ONE chance for norn stuff to be really flushed out. Because once we go to cantha its gonna be almost 100% human lore again.

I've been playing since the launch of Prophecies. I was there when Svanir was battling the corruption of Drakkar, Jora's struggle with the facets of the wild, and more than familiar with their Nordic inspired culture which hits close to home regarding my own Celtic background.

There's no proof to even suggest that Norn won't get their time in the spotlight, and frankly, your totally out-of-porportion response says volumes. The narrative you're attempting to push is a false one.

To address your complaint about the "boasting" and revelling nature of newer notable Norn characters, this has been the literally cornerstone of Norn culture from time immemorial. What you're complaining about here, is the Norn not being humanised enough. Your complaints are, pardon my pun, "moot".

Have patience, they will have more focus, it will happen.

So don't assume, you made an ass out of...well, yourself.

/fin.

[Thornwolf.9721]

@Obliviscaris.6937 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Obliviscaris.6937 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:Simple. A-net loathe norn and it seems they wana make us a joke race, with Eir still around that was impossible.

This victim complex seems vastly misplaced.

She died because her guts were literally mashed up.

And A-net wanted to get across the point that all heroes die eventually. Except for Livia, who loses a bunch of weight and gets a bad haircut.

Alright Im assuming this is coming from what? Some one who doesn't even play norn, know their lore or EVEN KNOW eir's lore? This is the same norn who wrestled kralk, cut diamonds with her claws in bear form and had faced worse circumstances pre-HoT in various events. (She talks about many of them.) So no Eir was the last true norn we had up until Jhavi in personality, all the others are either bumbling drunks or just idiots who boast. Like we haven't even had enough norn focus in the Icebrood saga which is supposed to be a norn story, I guess charr became more interesting?

Its not a victim complex, its fact. The norn have played back-seat for the entirety of the game and have had very little focus or even achievements given to them, we had charr and asuran build the fleets for the pact. The sylvari both were the best weapon against zaithan and the greatest victims of mordremoth and then we had PoF which is ALL HUMAN stuff. Now we are getting mostly charr stuff with some norn tid-bits sprinkled ontop.

If this saga ends with it being charr focused the norn will not get another chance, this is our ONE chance for norn stuff to be really flushed out. Because once we go to cantha its gonna be almost 100% human lore again.

I've been playing since the launch of Prophecies. I was there when Svanir was battling the corruption of Drakkar, Jora's struggle with the facets of the wild, and more than familiar with their Nordic inspired culture which hits close to home regarding my own Celtic background.

There's no proof to even suggest that Norn won't get their time in the spotlight, and frankly, your totally out-of-porportion response says volumes. The narrative you're attempting to push is a false one.

To address your complaint about the "boasting" and revelling nature of newer notable Norn characters, this has been the literally cornerstone of Norn culture from time immemorial. What you're complaining about here, is the Norn not being humanised enough. Your complaints are, pardon my pun, "moot".

Have patience, they will have more focus, it will happen.

So don't assume, you made an kitten out of...well, yourself.

/fin.

Im not mad that they boast, its what they've decided to make them boast about. I've been more than patient with A-net and I've waited the level 10-30 story-line is amazingly good but then it drops off. I was there too and I fell in love with the norn in guild wars 1, These norn are anything BUT those norn and honestly I want the bold and powerful people I saw back then and not the laughably inadequate things we've gotten now. Sure they are giving us finally after years of asking, the shaman armor and thank the spirits.

But that does not mean that this "Charr" story will turn into a "Norn" story. I want to be wrong but honestly with how A-net writes its predictable most of the time and I honestly am Unsure of if they could write a compelling narrative given the norns nature and their want to Humanize everything in the game. (So far they've done ok with the charr and not doing so... but still) So its not the lack of knowledge of their customs its the lack of exploration of their customs, their rituals, their very existence of which I wanted to see the most in this game when I found out they were playable. (Which honestly is the only reason Im still here, or even came to guild wars 2 from guild wars 1.)

[Dustfinger.9510]

@"Thornwolf.9721" said:

Im not mad that they boast, its what they've decided to make them boast about. I've been more than patient with A-net and I've waited the level 10-30 story-line is amazingly good but then it drops off. I was there too and I fell in love with the norn in guild wars 1, These norn are anything BUT those norn and honestly I want the bold and powerful people I saw back then and not the laughably inadequate things we've gotten now. Sure they are giving us finally after years of asking, the shaman armor and thank the spirits.

But that does not mean that this "Charr" story will turn into a "Norn" story. I want to be wrong but honestly with how A-net writes its predictable most of the time and I honestly am Unsure of if they could write a compelling narrative given the norns nature and their want to Humanize everything in the game. (So far they've done ok with the charr and not doing so... but still) So its not the lack of knowledge of their customs its the lack of exploration of their customs, their rituals, their very existence of which I wanted to see the most in this game when I found out they were playable. (Which honestly is the only reason Im still here, or even came to guild wars 2 from guild wars 1.)

I think if this was the real concern, it would have been agreed with more than the implication that Norn are supposed to be a joke race. I also would like to see more norn focus to cheer my norn characters through. But conflating that with norn being a joke race outside of Eir doesn't seem to have a solid arguement. It comes off as "chicken little". Eir was a good character. It always sucks when a good character dies. I'd also like to see more norn characters developed in a good way that brings pride to us norn fans.

[Thornwolf.9721]

@Dustfinger.9510 said:

@"Thornwolf.9721" said:

Im not mad that they boast, its what they've decided to make them boast about. I've been more than patient with A-net and I've waited the level 10-30 story-line is amazingly good but then it drops off. I was there too and I fell in love with the norn in guild wars 1, These norn are anything BUT those norn and honestly I want the bold and powerful people I saw back then and not the laughably inadequate things we've gotten now. Sure they are giving us finally after years of asking, the shaman armor and thank the spirits.

But that does not mean that this "Charr" story will turn into a "Norn" story. I want to be wrong but honestly with how A-net writes its predictable most of the time and I honestly am Unsure of if they could write a compelling narrative given the norns nature and their want to Humanize everything in the game. (So far they've done ok with the charr and not doing so... but still) So its not the lack of knowledge of their customs its the lack of exploration of their customs, their rituals, their very existence of which I wanted to see the most in this game when I found out they were playable. (Which honestly is the only reason Im still here, or even came to guild wars 2 from guild wars 1.)

I think if this was the real concern, it would have been agreed with more than the implication that Norn are supposed to be a joke race. I also would like to see more norn focus to cheer my norn characters through. But conflating that with norn being a joke race outside of Eir doesn't seem to have a solid arguement. It comes off as "chicken little". Eir was a good character. It always sucks when a good character dies. I'd also like to see more norn characters developed in a good way that brings pride to us norn fans.

I mean its strictly being on my end said that its in guild wars 2, and its only as of after the Personal story at level 30 is when it starts. Id argue that its even through about mid way through season 3, that it kind of starts to show more. Really because the norn weren't involved much in HoT and they sure as heck were very much barely an applicable factor. PoF is where a lot of norn jokes such as one being locked in a menagerie by some stupid elonian came into play. So its recent years and things through S4 with braham were handled and he himself has been handled poorly. I mean to say I suppose that I feel they've been handled very poorly in the lifespan of guild wars 2 and deserve more and deserve better, the other races have and continue to get chances to shine through both individuals and snipits of lore.

the norn have been more or less either forgotten or used as bits for some comedy here and there, I just want them to give me a full on norn story and some lore and let us have those areas and parts of the game for norn players. After that I couldn't care less what they do~ but give me my viking/lycanthrope/celtic/native american homage story with tons of good lore and cool cosmetics that are norn-centric. Hopefully this saga lasts a bit and we can get all of that so when we do move on, it doesn't feel like we got ignored in our main region of the world.

[Dustfinger.9510]

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

I mean its strictly being on my end said that its in guild wars 2, and its only as of after the Personal story at level 30 is when it starts. Id argue that its even through about mid way through season 3, that it kind of starts to show more. Really because the norn weren't involved much in HoT and they sure as heck were very much barely an applicable factor. PoF is where a lot of norn jokes such as one being locked in a menagerie by some stupid elonian came into play. So its recent years and things through S4 with braham were handled and he himself has been handled poorly. I mean to say I suppose that I feel they've been handled very poorly in the lifespan of guild wars 2 and deserve more and deserve better, the other races have and continue to get chances to shine through both individuals and snipits of lore.

the norn have been more or less either forgotten or used as bits for some comedy here and there, I just want them to give me a full on norn story and some lore and let us have those areas and parts of the game for norn players. After that I couldn't care less what they do~ but give me my viking/lycanthrope/celtic/native american homage story with tons of good lore and cool cosmetics that are norn-centric. Hopefully this saga lasts a bit and we can get all of that so when we do move on, it doesn't feel like we got ignored in our main region of the world.

Yeah, the Pact tech like airships is stated to be combinations of asura, charr and human tech. Norn seem to be consistently absent from having any major role in world events. While some might argue that the norns individual and heroic nature make it difficult to highlight norn contribution, I'd argue that assigning norn a broad role in the areas they excel at is just as easy as doing it for any other race. e.g.: humans are thrown in for their ….wooden ship building. Sure. Why not. If something like humanities wooden ships can be thrown in as a legitimate contribution, it would be just as easy to say the norn do the bulk of the physical work with their near mythical strength.

Another option A-net can do is simply add a small plot point about dropping a lone norn an area to mess things up and cause enough damage to create a distraction for other race groups to be successful in their missions. A-net definatly isn't doing the norns justice recently.

[Thornwolf.9721]

@Dustfinger.9510 said:

@"Thornwolf.9721" said:

I mean its strictly being on my end said that its in guild wars 2, and its only as of after the Personal story at level 30 is when it starts. Id argue that its even through about mid way through season 3, that it kind of starts to show more. Really because the norn weren't involved much in HoT and they sure as heck were very much barely an applicable factor. PoF is where a lot of norn jokes such as one being locked in a menagerie by some stupid elonian came into play. So its recent years and things through S4 with braham were handled and he himself has been handled poorly. I mean to say I suppose that I feel they've been handled very poorly in the lifespan of guild wars 2 and deserve more and deserve better, the other races have and continue to get chances to shine through both individuals and snipits of lore.

the norn have been more or less either forgotten or used as bits for some comedy here and there, I just want them to give me a full on norn story and some lore and let us have those areas and parts of the game for norn players. After that I couldn't care less what they do~ but give me my viking/lycanthrope/celtic/native american homage story with tons of good lore and cool cosmetics that are norn-centric. Hopefully this saga lasts a bit and we can get all of that so when we do move on, it doesn't feel like we got ignored in our main region of the world.

Yeah, the Pact tech like airships is stated to be combinations of asura, charr and human tech. Norn seem to be consistently absent from having any major role in world events. While some might argue that the norns individual and heroic nature make it difficult to highlight norn contribution, I'd argue that assigning norn a broad role in the areas they excel at is just as easy as doing it for any other race. e.g.: humans are thrown in for their ….wooden ship building. Sure. Why not. If something like humanities wooden ships can be thrown in as a legitimate contribution, it would be just as easy to say the norn do the bulk of the physical work with their near mythical strength.

Another option A-net can do is simply add a small plot point about dropping a lone norn an area to mess things up and cause enough damage to create a distraction for other race groups to be successful in their missions. A-net definatly isn't doing the norns justice recently.

Its even a bit worse here as of late, mainly.... well this is all jormag related stuff and we have braham and Jhavi and of course the vigil (Mixed to the max in who is in it..) But the Norn as a whole are not there. And they've been waiting for generations to come up here and "Return" home and claim their ancestral lands back, you'd think that a few at the least would march up here to come help. Especially if they heard some stupid charr was running around trying to wake up and serve jormag? Like if anything bangars actions should encite the norn to a very angry war like state.

Now back in the day the norn were said to not have armies, and like wise even today they still don't. However when jormag attacked they mobilized and became a force to be reckoned with and I find it highly unlikely that they would sit idle while this is going on. Especially with bangar doing his shenanigans, At the very least some strong individuals should be arriving to try and aid us in hopes of adding their legend to the pile so to speak. I find it hilarious that we have heard nothing from Knut whitebear since like Pre-PoF which was explicitly during the events of Eir's funeral. They are sitting on a huge chunk of lore, and how the norn would react to a charr (Of which they probably don't know.) Doing some horrible stuff like this? When Braham cracked the fang they were sending parties up north and I Realize many did not return, but still with the charr legions mobilizing and forming an army I find it hard to believe that not a SINGLE norn from hoelbrak would throw in their lot to help.

Sure time will tell but thus far its been named characters we knew existed. Ironically we've known about Jhavi since launch as there is a vigil rep spouting about her near our storage area. However we had never seen, interacted or met her up until now even if you joined the vigil despite them telling you that you'd fight alongside her which never happened. So we've spent no time and its hard to have investment in her, simply because she is jora's descendant. Even braham is hard to take seriously given he was MIA for so long and we honestly hadn't spent much time with him.. Things have changed now but calling HIM the chosen one? The CHOSEN NORN? So now we have this sub-plot which may....or may not go anywhere? (They've done things like this before, such as when your rival in the personal story said you'd see him again. We didn't. And Grechen showing up DYING in Orr which was like "Cool, hung with you twice and now ya dead... fantastic.") My fear is that this will continue and then we will be off to cantha, and human centric and exclusive stories until we end up inevitably returning to tyria for more fun times.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@Thornwolf.9721 said:Alright Im assuming this is coming from what? Some one who doesn't even play norn, know their lore or EVEN KNOW eir's lore? This is the same norn who wrestled kralk, cut diamonds with her claws in bear form and had faced worse circumstances pre-HoT in various events. (She talks about many of them.)

Eir never did any of that... She cut hard wood with her bear claws, and she shot arrows at Kralkatorrik. She never even wrestled a dragon champion (nor encountered one solo before the Vinetooth).

And Eir never was in a situation where she was starved for over a week, stabbed in the side, had no weapon, and was alone when a powerful dragon champion bared down on her.

I can get folks being upset about norn being ignored in most of GW2, but hell, don't inflate original lore to fan fiction levels.