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Will there ever be new additions to Core classes?


Taril.8619

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So, Elite Specializations are pretty cool. They add a new specialization, new utility skills and a new weapon to a class.

But, the downside is the limitation that is having to use the new Specialization to be able to use the new weapon and utilities as well as going forward the specialization itself will become more notably limiting since you can't use multiple Elite Specializations together (Meaning that each new Elite Specialization still only has 2x the current 5 core Specializations to use alongside)

As such, I was wondering if core classes might ever be expanded upon? Given that such a thing would create more potential options to utilize. I.e. A new core weapon/Utility set could be utilized by any combination of Core Specializations as well as any Elite Specialization. While any new Core Specialization increases the pool of options that can be paired with an Elite Specialization (Whilst also making more combinations for 3x Core Specialization builds)

If necessary, you can continue to lock these additions behind Expansion content (Such as how Elite Specializations are unlocked), it's just it would be nice for new content to have more flexibility.

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I honestly doubt that there will be new additions to core classes in the future.

Introducing more stuff is always a challenge for balance, since you have to consider every possible combination (which is honestly often impossible and therefore we end up with players finding OP strategies in the end).Elite specs are an elegant way to expand on the classes, while also reducing the possible disruption in balance by limiting the combination options. Since elite specs are exclusive, you just have to consider the 5 core trait lines and the core class skils when designing them.

Pretty sure that we are going to get a third elite spec for every class with the coming Cantha expansion. Implementing new stuff to core would mean to balance them around all the core aspects, plus 3 potential elite specs (which also open up alot of combination options). Can just speak for myself, but I honestly don't have such a deep interest in expanding the core classes. Elite specs are fun for me and cover all my needs for new toys for my engineer, I get to play him in another interesting way, with a new skill type, new traits, new class mechanics, and a new thematical focal points. Can't ask for much more.

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@Kodama.6453 said:Elite specs are an elegant way to expand on the classes, while also reducing the possible disruption in balance by limiting the combination options. Since elite specs are exclusive, you just have to consider the 5 core trait lines and the core class skils when designing them.

Though, this limitation in the combination options is part of the issue that makes me want more Core additions.

Since, it's all well and good to get a shiny new Elite pack. But then you only have so many iterations you can try out to customize it.

To say nothing about having aspects you like from multiple Elite Specializations but can never combine (For example, on my Thief, I really like the Deadeye spec, with the Malice stacks and use of a Rifle. But I much prefer Daredevil's Physical Utilities over Deadeye's Cantrips. But it's impossible to use both together. Or maybe I'd like to try out a Core Elementalist with MH Sword)

It often feels like a bit of a shame when looking at Elite Specs and how the new weapons and utilities are tied to them, not just the unique mechanics (Which justify being an exclusive Elite Spec)

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  • 2 weeks later...

I can't even think of a void that a new class could fill. They're doing a great job with the current classes and to add elites helps show the variations of class types within a theme. I think Revenant was a nice addition mixing the ritualist and the Dervish from the previous game, while filling the gap of the other-worldly Mystic / Dark Knight vibe. If there is another character type, I just don't see it.

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@VocalThought.9835 said:I can't even think of a void that a new class could fill. They're doing a great job with the current classes and to add elites helps show the variations of class types within a theme. I think Revenant was a nice addition mixing the ritualist and the Dervish from the previous game, while filling the gap of the other-worldly Mystic / Dark Knight vibe. If there is another character type, I just don't see it.

Necromancer is a massive void in the game atm that is not filled. And gw2 necromancer is not a necromancer. It's a warlock at best. Which isn't the same thing.

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Nothing new, nothing more. People seem to be fine with what we have so at this point why bother? I mean everytime anyone brings it up its the same story, pooped on by the community because of BaLaNcE even though its never been a thing. I doubt it ever will. So they probs will do new mounts, or some other gimmick thats only truly applicable in those regions and some E-specs (Starting to doubt it, with the reception of them lately.)

Its either go big or go home, honestly with their track record and how things are going? I don't know If I trust them to add anything to any class. Because some classes feel like they are there because they were there before, or in the case of revenant were a mistake. Those who don't feel this are fine and the players are fine, so why would it be of concern of theirs of specific classes they don't touch or play feel limited or unfun? Its all me, me, me. Ill be surprised if we get E-specs let alone new things to core...

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I think it'll be ages before Anet will ever get on that because their balance team either has trouble balancing whatever we currently have, or adds in new stuff which power creeps really really hard.

Still, I want to see more stuff for core professions.I'm a little sick of Elite specs dominating the majority of the content, so much so that some professions are recognized by their Elite spec more than their core (Chrono was one of these for a LONG LONG time before it got hardcore dumpstered, Herald is also one of these)

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@"Yasai.3549" said:I think it'll be ages before Anet will ever get on that because their balance team either has trouble balancing whatever we currently have, or adds in new stuff which power creeps really really hard.

Still, I want to see more stuff for core professions.I'm a little sick of Elite specs dominating the majority of the content, so much so that some professions are recognized by their Elite spec more than their core (Chrono was one of these for a LONG LONG time before it got hardcore dumpstered, Herald is also one of these)

Yeah...

It's very noticeable when ANet does make nerfs to E-Specs with the reasoning of "E-Specs are meant to have a trade off" (Such as the nerf to Soulbeast's pet swapping in combat) as it implies that Core builds are supposed to be equally viable to E-Specs.

While in reality, various E-Specs are synonymous with various classes (I.e. Power Necro = Reaper), with a huge number of Core weapon sets and Specializations being pretty horrible compared to E-Specs (With a good number of E-Specs having decent selections of Traits to create a number of builds, with some weapons even being flexible enough to be used in Power and Condi builds such as Tempest Warhorn, Weaver Sword and Soulbeast Dagger)

To be honest, even if they don't add anything new to classes (Core or E-Spec) a lot of classes would feel like new if they went back and revamped core weapons and specializations since there are a lot of weapon skills, traits and trait selections (I.e. Ele Water GM that is a selection between 3 support traits) that are just outright garbo.

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@Yasai.3549 said:I think it'll be ages before Anet will ever get on that because their balance team either has trouble balancing whatever we currently have, or adds in new stuff which power creeps really really hard.

Still, I want to see more stuff for core professions.I'm a little sick of Elite specs dominating the majority of the content, so much so that some professions are recognized by their Elite spec more than their core (Chrono was one of these for a LONG LONG time before it got hardcore dumpstered, Herald is also one of these)

If only we had a 4th trait line only for eSpec and core was made into its own eSpec unlocked from level 1.

@VocalThought.9835 said:I can't even think of a void that a new class could fill. They're doing a great job with the current classes and to add elites helps show the variations of class types within a theme. I think Revenant was a nice addition mixing the ritualist and the Dervish from the previous game, while filling the gap of the other-worldly Mystic / Dark Knight vibe. If there is another character type, I just don't see it.

I can see a void in the scholars.We have an illusionist, an elementalist, a necromancer, but none is focused on functional magic itself on the more intellectual side.If we go by D&D : A wizard, magus, or arcanist.In game, it would be close to Asura magitech but done by someone rather than a device.Would also have some ties with Dwarven magic.

Current light armor classes spells visuals are creativity basedAn elementalist can produce a gush of wind. That gush of wind can be used creatively to push a target, dry clothes, ...In game it pushes, but in lore it has no predefined purpose.The class I have in mind would be the opposite logic.It start from the intent (push the target), then the wizard use a spell that push and the visual effect is the magical embodiment of pushing (whatever it looks like) and couldn't be used otherwise.It would be more intellectual and less creativity.Because of this, the visual of the class skills would be more wild in creative freedom from ANet.

It could haveCantrip : Only do one little thing, but on a short cooldown or with charges (high availability).Preparation : Similar to ritual casting, prepare an effect into the ground, after a delay you can trigger it at will.Mantra : Similar to prepared spells, 2s to 3s to charge, then released at will.Well: Typical AoE effects at range lingering for a few seconds.

Weapons could be : Staff, Scepter, Focus, Daggers, Shortbow, MH Sword, Torch, Pistols, Warhorn.

Class mechanic could be metamagic, arcane reservoir, sorcery points, ...

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@Thornwolf.9721 said:Nothing new, nothing more. People seem to be fine with what we have so at this point why bother? I mean everytime anyone brings it up its the same story, pooped on by the community because of BaLaNcE even though its never been a thing. I doubt it ever will. So they probs will do new mounts, or some other gimmick thats only truly applicable in those regions and some E-specs (Starting to doubt it, with the reception of them lately.)

Its either go big or go home, honestly with their track record and how things are going? I don't know If I trust them to add anything to any class. Because some classes feel like they are there because they were there before, or in the case of revenant were a mistake. Those who don't feel this are fine and the players are fine, so why would it be of concern of theirs of specific classes they don't touch or play feel limited or unfun? Its all me, me, me. Ill be surprised if we get E-specs let alone new things to core...

How can you simultaneously think revenant was a mistake and also want a new class?

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@RabbitUp.8294 said:How can you simultaneously think revenant was a mistake and also want a new class?

It may be my error, but this thread is about new Weapons/Utilities for existing Core classes, as opposed to a New class.

Upon rereading my title and OP, I see that it comes across as asking about a new class (Personally, I don't know where a new class would fit, what with it unbalancing the armour classes as well as many things being possible as E-Specs, even the above mentioned Wizard which could simply be an E-Spec of Elementalist that forgoes the Elements and instead gets some pure magic-y type stances to use in lieu of Attunements especially given their Arcane skills which are pure non-elemental spells)

@Kulvar.1239 said:If only we had a 4th trait line only for eSpec and core was made into its own eSpec unlocked from level 1.

I'm curious about how you'd imagine that'd work.

Like, would the Core E-Spec be a new trait line that is full of generic boosts to the class in general?

Or would it simply be a Classes core mechanic Spec (I.e. Arcane for Ele, Trickery for Feef, Invocation for Rev, Illusion for Me(s)mer, Soul Reaping for Necro etc)?

Given that E-Specs have a focus on their unique class mechanic in their traits, either one could be argued.

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@Kulvar.1239 said:If only we had a 4th trait line only for eSpec and core was made into its own eSpec unlocked from level 1.

I'm curious about how you'd imagine that'd work.

Like, would the Core E-Spec be a new trait line that is full of generic boosts to the class in general?

Or would it simply be a Classes core mechanic Spec (I.e. Arcane for Ele, Trickery for Feef, Invocation for Rev, Illusion for Me(s)mer, Soul Reaping for Necro etc)?

Given that E-Specs have a focus on their unique class mechanic in their traits, either one could be argued.

To not upset the current balance and based on people feeling like core is weaker than elites I would go for the first one : new trait line exclusive for core

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@Taril.8619 said:

@"RabbitUp.8294" said:How can you simultaneously think revenant was a mistake and also want a new class?

It may be my error, but this thread is about new Weapons/Utilities for existing Core classes, as opposed to a New class.

Upon rereading my title and OP, I see that it comes across as asking about a new class (Personally, I don't know where a new class would fit, what with it unbalancing the armour classes as well as many things being possible as E-Specs, even the above mentioned Wizard which could simply be an E-Spec of Elementalist that forgoes the Elements and instead gets some pure magic-y type stances to use in lieu of Attunements especially given their Arcane skills which are pure non-elemental spells)

Yeah, my mind immediately went to "new class".

On the actual topic then, I do wish we could get a new core elite skill for each class, like they did with healing skills back in the day. They could even be pve-only if balance was an issue, but having only 3 elites is for me one of the bigger reasons why I don't like playing core (besides rev, of course, which is an entirely different beast).

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@RabbitUp.8294 said:On the actual topic then, I do wish we could get a new core elite skill for each class, like they did with healing skills back in the day. They could even be pve-only if balance was an issue, but having only 3 elites is for me one of the bigger reasons why I don't like playing core (besides rev, of course, which is an entirely different beast).

Yeah, that would be neat. Also, there's room for 2 more Elites per class, given they all have 2 Utility lines that don't have an Elite associated with them:

Elementalist - Arcane and SignetWarrior - Shout and StanceRanger - Trap and SignetNecromancer - Signet and WellGuardian - Consecration and Spirit WeaponThief - Signet and PreparationEngineer - Gadget (I only just realize that Engie only has 4 utility types but has 5 skills in each)Mesmer - Illusion/Phantasm and Mantra

Of course, Rev is the odd one out, given that they have 4 Elites but only 3 skills of each utility type... Though, the compromize could be a new core Legend instead of 2 Elites (Heck if I know what Engie should get instead of 2 Elites...)

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@RabbitUp.8294 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:Nothing new, nothing more. People seem to be fine with what we have so at this point why bother? I mean everytime anyone brings it up its the same story, pooped on by the community because of BaLaNcE even though its never been a thing. I doubt it ever will. So they probs will do new mounts, or some other gimmick thats only truly applicable in those regions and some E-specs (Starting to doubt it, with the reception of them lately.)

Its either go big or go home, honestly with their track record and how things are going? I don't know If I trust them to add anything to any class. Because some classes feel like they are there because they were there before, or in the case of revenant were a mistake. Those who don't feel this are fine and the players are fine, so why would it be of concern of theirs of specific classes they don't touch or play feel limited or unfun? Its all me, me, me. Ill be surprised if we get E-specs let alone new things to core...

How can you simultaneously think revenant was a mistake and also want a new class?

Because I can? I don't think rev was a mistake and its my favorite class in game to date. I just feel a-net treats it like their mistake as they keep simplifying it and stripping it of its cool stuff..

Don't fault me for wanting something new thats bigger than E-specs, I just think a new class would be cool. Im not gonna argue that it ain't ever gonna happen but I think that honestly we will be lucky to see E-specs in general. because of BaLaNcE, if they truly wana focus on that then they have to not add E-specs until the whole game is simplified and balanced around whatever gameplay loop they desire to make. ~ And we are a long way off from that according to everyone. Sarcasm and cynicism aside I just like when big new stuff drops mate, And I know new classes always snag new players~ Thats how WoW got me in Legion.

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@Lily.1935 said:What would a well do on necromancer? An elite well could be interesting but what void could it fill for the necromancer?

Well, looking at what Wells we already have on Necromancer:

  • Boon Corrupt
  • Condi Corrupt
  • Blind
  • DAMAGE (And Vuln)

Other aspects of Necro that could be utilized for a Well are:

  • Condi transfer
  • Life Siphon (Both the well siphoning life and also the well granting allies inside it life siphon similar to Soulcleave's Summit)
  • Chill
  • Spawning minions (Jagged Horrors/Shambling Horrors)

It could be interesting/hilarious for the Elite well to spawn horrors for each target it hits... Just this black pit that has flesh monstrosities pouring out of it (RIP Framerate). Throw in some Chill to keep enemies in there and maybe add a dash of life siphon and voila you've got yourself a new Elite well. Just imagine it with Death Nova... Such pog.

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@Taril.8619 said:

@Lily.1935 said:What would a well do on necromancer? An elite well could be interesting but what void could it fill for the necromancer?

Well, looking at what Wells we already have on Necromancer:
  • Boon Corrupt
  • Condi Corrupt
  • Blind
  • DAMAGE (And Vuln)

Other aspects of Necro that could be utilized for a Well are:
  • Condi transfer
  • Life Siphon (Both the well siphoning life and also the well granting allies inside it life siphon similar to Soulcleave's Summit)
  • Chill
  • Spawning minions (Jagged Horrors/Shambling Horrors)

It could be interesting/hilarious for the Elite well to spawn horrors for each target it hits... Just this black pit that has flesh monstrosities pouring out of it (RIP Framerate). Throw in some Chill to keep enemies in there and maybe add a dash of life siphon and voila you've got yourself a new Elite well. Just imagine it with Death Nova... Such pog.

Pulsing fear maybe.

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@Lily.1935 said:

@VocalThought.9835 said:I can't even think of a void that a new class could fill. They're doing a great job with the current classes and to add elites helps show the variations of class types within a theme. I think Revenant was a nice addition mixing the ritualist and the Dervish from the previous game, while filling the gap of the other-worldly Mystic / Dark Knight vibe. If there is another character type, I just don't see it.

Necromancer is a massive void in the game atm that is not filled. And gw2 necromancer is not a necromancer. It's a warlock at best. Which isn't the same thing.

It might be the necro you had in mind, but it is a Necromancer. It totally fits the theme, but just because it doesn't do what other game Necromancers do, doesn't mean that wrong. The Devs created a world, created a class and gave it a name. The same can be said with other games. They are fitting within their license.

@Kulvar.1239 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:I think it'll be ages before Anet will ever get on that because their balance team either has trouble balancing whatever we currently have, or adds in new stuff which power creeps really really hard.

Still, I want to see more stuff for core professions.I'm a little sick of Elite specs dominating the majority of the content, so much so that some professions are recognized by their Elite spec more than their core (Chrono was one of these for a LONG LONG time before it got hardcore dumpstered, Herald is also one of these)

If only we had a 4th trait line only for eSpec and core was made into its own eSpec unlocked from level 1.

@VocalThought.9835 said:I can't even think of a void that a new class could fill. They're doing a great job with the current classes and to add elites helps show the variations of class types within a theme. I think Revenant was a nice addition mixing the ritualist and the Dervish from the previous game, while filling the gap of the other-worldly Mystic / Dark Knight vibe. If there is another character type, I just don't see it.

I can see a void in the scholars.We have an illusionist, an elementalist, a necromancer, but none is focused on functional magic itself on the more intellectual side.If we go by D&D : A wizard, magus, or arcanist.In game, it would be close to Asura magitech but done by someone rather than a device.Would also have some ties with Dwarven magic.

Current light armor classes spells visuals are creativity basedAn elementalist can produce a gush of wind. That gush of wind can be used creatively to push a target, dry clothes, ...In game it pushes, but in lore it has no predefined purpose.The class I have in mind would be the opposite logic.It start from the intent (push the target), then the wizard use a spell that push and the visual effect is the magical embodiment of pushing (whatever it looks like) and couldn't be used otherwise.It would be more intellectual and less creativity.Because of this, the visual of the class skills would be more wild in creative freedom from ANet.

It could haveCantrip : Only do one little thing, but on a short cooldown or with charges (high availability).Preparation : Similar to ritual casting, prepare an effect into the ground, after a delay you can trigger it at will.Mantra : Similar to prepared spells, 2s to 3s to charge, then released at will.Well: Typical AoE effects at range lingering for a few seconds.

Weapons could be : Staff, Scepter, Focus, Daggers, Shortbow, MH Sword, Torch, Pistols, Warhorn.

Class mechanic could be metamagic, arcane reservoir, sorcery points, ...

I think for what you looking for the game would have to create another system. Dragon's Dogma has a system like that were certain spells make you wet or dry your clothes. GW2 has a combo system, but it's not close. As far as classes go... I think the elites are currently in a great position to add to a class what you feel is missing. I don't think there any missing class though. A new class would be more than what's needed. Especially if you want any order or consistency. I think the best way to look at this is by looking at each profession and their core and elite specializations, then think what's not here and does any of your ideas not fit with a current profession?

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@VocalThought.9835 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:I think it'll be ages before Anet will ever get on that because their balance team either has trouble balancing whatever we currently have, or adds in new stuff which power creeps really really hard.

Still, I want to see more stuff for core professions.I'm a little sick of Elite specs dominating the majority of the content, so much so that some professions are recognized by their Elite spec more than their core (Chrono was one of these for a LONG LONG time before it got hardcore dumpstered, Herald is also one of these)

If only we had a 4th trait line only for eSpec and core was made into its own eSpec unlocked from level 1.

@VocalThought.9835 said:I can't even think of a void that a new class could fill. They're doing a great job with the current classes and to add elites helps show the variations of class types within a theme. I think Revenant was a nice addition mixing the ritualist and the Dervish from the previous game, while filling the gap of the other-worldly Mystic / Dark Knight vibe. If there is another character type, I just don't see it.

I can see a void in the scholars.We have an illusionist, an elementalist, a necromancer, but none is focused on functional magic itself on the more intellectual side.If we go by D&D : A wizard, magus, or arcanist.In game, it would be close to Asura magitech but done by someone rather than a device.Would also have some ties with Dwarven magic.

Current light armor classes spells visuals are creativity basedAn elementalist can produce a gush of wind. That gush of wind can be used creatively to push a target, dry clothes, ...In game it pushes, but in lore it has no predefined purpose.The class I have in mind would be the opposite logic.It start from the intent (push the target), then the wizard use a spell that push and the visual effect is the magical embodiment of pushing (whatever it looks like) and couldn't be used otherwise.It would be more intellectual and less creativity.Because of this, the visual of the class skills would be more wild in creative freedom from ANet.

It could haveCantrip : Only do one little thing, but on a short cooldown or with charges (high availability).Preparation : Similar to ritual casting, prepare an effect into the ground, after a delay you can trigger it at will.Mantra : Similar to prepared spells, 2s to 3s to charge, then released at will.Well: Typical AoE effects at range lingering for a few seconds.

Weapons could be : Staff, Scepter, Focus, Daggers, Shortbow, MH Sword, Torch, Pistols, Warhorn.

Class mechanic could be metamagic, arcane reservoir, sorcery points, ...

I think for what you looking for the game would have to create another system. Dragon's Dogma has a system like that were certain spells make you wet or dry your clothes. GW2 has a combo system, but it's not close. As far as classes go... I think the elites are currently in a great position to add to a class what you feel is missing. I don't think there any missing class though. A new class would be more than what's needed. Especially if you want any order or consistency. I think the best way to look at this is by looking at each profession and their core and elite specializations, then think what's not here and does any of your ideas not fit with a current profession?

I don't think we have an elementalist elite without attunements or a mesmer elite without clones, nor a necromancer elite that isn't themed after death/ghosts/bones/darkness :)

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