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Suggestion: Cutting down on CC


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@Sailorz.5426 said:There's such a misconception of CC in guildwars 2. These people who complain that there is too much probably never played a class that relies on cc in gw2.There is no misconception in CC being too much when the enemy can stunlock you from the beginning of combat to your character's death.And that is very much a thing now and it happened sometimes even before the CC-enhancer patch.

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@"Sailorz.5426" said:There's such a misconception of CC in guildwars 2. These people who complain that there is too much probably never played a class that relies on cc in gw2. Imagine needing to land an ability on a 20+ sec cd that can be nulled by, stab, blind, aegis, cc break, dodge, invul.

I get stuns make people salty. but it's just sad. If the cc aspect of warrior gets nuked from orbit because "cc bad mmkkayy" there will no longer be a class that has a playstyle I like.

Here's where the disconnect is. 20 seconds is very low for a hard CC, and most stun breaks have around double that CD and you have a lot more CC than they do breaks. MOST forms of damage are negated by everything you just listed that impedes your CC except Stab, stun breaks don't negate your CC because you had to already land it for them to have to break. Blinds, blocks, dodges and invulns negate nearly everything already; stab is the only unique thing you have to worry about.

Your playstyle might have to change, such is the nature of balance. Builds get outdated by patches all the time, or even entire specs of your name is Chrono.

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Funny how the OP doesn't include warrior in all this which has some very short cool down CC on spellbreaker that can pretty much shut down any long casts permanently.

Elementalist: Most of the problem is shocking aura or rather shocking aura spam with tempest maybe change air overload aura, the offhand CCs are on decent length cool downs for focus with single target or small AoE. Offhand dagger CC is AoE but long cool down and updraft is now weird, leave it as weird as it's easy to avoid. Oh and Tornado has way too much CC, leave it on the dash and remove it from the pulsing effect, maybe add conditions like chill or cripple to that instead.

Revenant: I think most of it's CC is fine at the moment, renegade Darkrazor's Daring should maybe pulse every 2s but increase the daze duration to compensate a little. Forced Engagement is weird, maybe up the cool down by 5s and see how it goes, Shiro has a high cost and using jade winds can put you in the "Shiro trap" as I like to call it, that's being energy starved in Shiro and a free kill.

Ranger: Pet CC should not be passive imo and should be tied to F2, other forms of CC on weapons maybe need a cool down increase by 5s but generally I don't think it's a glaring issue right now.

Warrior: Very low cool down on spellbreaker full counter which is not hard to trigger in a team fight, low cool down on disrupting stab, would increase this to 15s but make it remove a boon, bulls charge increase to 35s CD again and reduce knockdown to 2s and see how it performs.

Thief: Headshot spam fortunately isn't rewarding thanks to PI being nerfed into the floor but is annoying. This is part of a wider problem with thief where if an attack is worth using it's worth "spamming" (or rather using every time) and very difficult to balance around, I'd honestly put short cool downs on the weapon skills, only 2-5s to give enemies a window where repeated use won't happen but then a lot of weapon skills would need a serious buff and initiative costs to go down a bit as they will need to chain different skills more often.

Mesmer: Mantra of distraction shouldn't recharge diversion, increase the casting time back to core level, allow the active to be cast not facing again, reduce daze duration to 1/2s, if it needs an on charge effect give it 240 AoE daze for 1s which will be hard to get off reliably and not likely to be used. Magic bullet CC length is way too high, reduce both CC duration to 1s, reduce counterblade duration to 1s, Tides of Time allow this skill to be cast behind you, reduce cast to 1/2s, reduce stun to 1/2s, it will still lock an enemy at max range but others can get out of the way of the return easier. Signet of domination reduce the stun duration to 1s, reduce cool down to 30s, maybe increase cast to 1/2s.

Firebrand: This part of guardian has a lot of CC on the axe (when traited) and then on F1, I'd remoce the daze from the trait and tomes need a rework so remove when reworking in my opinion.

Engineer: Always had a lot of C but lacked stability and often had a trade off by having poor stunbreaks, they could CC a lot but they were also susceptible to CC, this seems to have disappeared slightly, I'd increase the cool downs of stunbreaks back up to core levels (most it will be a +5s increase) and increase the cool down of CC back to core levels (again mostly +5s CD increases) and see where it's at.

Necromancer: One word, fear. Ripple of Horror down to 1s but generally I think it's OK after the last patch reducing fear of death to 50% duration. Maybe Doom might need to drop to 1s duration but that might be overkill as it would be the only 2s fear left on necro.

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I didn't read anything prior I'm just posting my 2 cents here:The most effective way to start cutting down on cc with minimal impact to how you actually play the game is to remove extra effects from traits that enhance/add on effects to cc skills or add cc onto skills that don't have it already (I.E immob when you daze/stun, axe daze trait enhancement on FB, Chill when you fear, increase duration of stuns/daze, etc.) as well as any sigils or runes that increase the effect time of cc or have cc effects built into them (when you heal/use an elite inflict "x" cc effect).

What this accomplishes is a "trim the fat" effect for the game where you begin to remove some of the bloated effects that make cc in this game so absurd. After all that is done, you re-evaluate what skills actually need to have cc effects and how long they need to be/what their cds should be and go from there (The first two things I would remove would be static aura as a whole and the cc effect of static shield on engi since they both apply cc effects based on the user being hit. In a game with lots of micro- attacks, this also causes tons of cc to be dumped out in short periods with people being unable to escape since maybe even their dodge has a dmg effect on it). The point is that as long as those bloated effects stay in the game, cc will always be too present and strong.

Another possible solution to consider in addition to those changes is to remove all traits that apply damage or conditions when you cc someone (I.E Lightning rod, poison on immob, etc.) to stop players from being able to create builds that center around the concept of literally cc-ing someone to death using extra effects they can add onto their ccs through traits. Obviously it would require lots of redesign but it may be worth the effort to change the design into something more cohesive and interactive.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:@apharma.3741I like the changes.classes with most broken cc -> nerf by 10%-15%mesmer -> triple nerf to single skill that nobody even uses, nerf signet by 66%, nerf pistol by 50%

Nerf signet? I guess you missed where I said reduce it's cool down to 30s and when you trait it that can remove 5 boons, CC and give you 1s of invuln, it would be insanely broken as a 3s stun and even 2s would make it a sure pick.Pistol, magic bullet you mean, is a very overloaded skill and stuns/dazes for a long time for a ranged 1/2s cast that's meant for interrupting. It interrupts fine but interrupt CC should be short duration.Tides of time, again you miss where I ask for it to be cast behind you, the idea is to make it better to use but likewise it's an overloaded skill so reduce the CC duration an argument can be made to remove the stun entirely.Mantra of distration I asked for it to be able to be cast behind you again which would be a major usability buff to interrupt play styles but it can't be used to stunlock opponents by chaining mantra into diversion into mantra and then repeat 15s later because one recharges the other.

Mesmer has a lot of CC and needs it for interrupt play styles but it's not fun to be constantly CC'd so making them shorter duration allows you to keep the interrupt style while making it less egregious on the receiving end.

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@apharma.3741 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@apharma.3741I like the changes.classes with most broken cc -> nerf by 10%-15%mesmer -> triple nerf to single skill that nobody even uses, nerf signet by 66%, nerf pistol by 50%

Nerf signet? I guess you missed where I said reduce it's cool down to 30s and when you trait it that can remove 5 boons, CC and give you 1s of invuln, it would be insanely broken as a 3s stun and even 2s would make it a sure pick.Pistol, magic bullet you mean, is a very overloaded skill and stuns/dazes for a long time for a ranged 1/2s cast that's meant for interrupting. It interrupts fine but interrupt CC should be short duration.Tides of time, again you miss where I ask for it to be cast behind you, the idea is to make it better to use but likewise it's an overloaded skill so reduce the CC duration an argument can be made to remove the stun entirely.Mantra of distration I asked for it to be able to be cast behind you again which would be a major usability buff to interrupt play styles but it can't be used to stunlock opponents by chaining mantra into diversion into mantra and then repeat 15s later because one recharges the other.

Mesmer has a lot of CC and needs it for interrupt play styles but it's not fun to be constantly CC'd so making them shorter duration allows you to keep the interrupt style while making it less egregious on the receiving end.

I think you missed the part where magic bullet is the only hard CC mesmer uses, if you think you can set up bursts with dazes then think again, interrupting is cute, its all it really is

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@apharma.3741I like the changes.classes with most broken cc -> nerf by 10%-15%mesmer -> triple nerf to single skill that nobody even uses, nerf signet by 66%, nerf pistol by 50%

Nerf signet? I guess you missed where I said reduce it's cool down to 30s and when you trait it that can remove 5 boons, CC and give you 1s of invuln, it would be insanely broken as a 3s stun and even 2s would make it a sure pick.Pistol, magic bullet you mean, is a very overloaded skill and stuns/dazes for a long time for a ranged 1/2s cast that's meant for interrupting. It interrupts fine but interrupt CC should be short duration.Tides of time, again you miss where I ask for it to be cast behind you, the idea is to make it better to use but likewise it's an overloaded skill so reduce the CC duration an argument can be made to remove the stun entirely.Mantra of distration I asked for it to be able to be cast behind you again which would be a major usability buff to interrupt play styles but it can't be used to stunlock opponents by chaining mantra into diversion into mantra and then repeat 15s later because one recharges the other.

Mesmer has a lot of CC and needs it for interrupt play styles but it's not fun to be constantly CC'd so making them shorter duration allows you to keep the interrupt style while making it less egregious on the receiving end.

I think you missed the part where magic bullet is the only hard CC mesmer uses, if you think you can set up bursts with dazes then think again, interrupting is cute, its all it really is

Uses currently but that's not a reason to leave it as being a 2s stun, 2s daze, blind to last target and confusion to all with a 25s CD. Signet of domination is rarely used but if you reduce it's cool down to 30s then a lot of people will start playing it, 3s stun with a 1/4s cast is basically a free kill.

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@apharma.3741 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@apharma.3741I like the changes.classes with most broken cc -> nerf by 10%-15%mesmer -> triple nerf to single skill that nobody even uses, nerf signet by 66%, nerf pistol by 50%

Nerf signet? I guess you missed where I said reduce it's cool down to 30s and when you trait it that can remove 5 boons, CC and give you 1s of invuln, it would be insanely broken as a 3s stun and even 2s would make it a sure pick.Pistol, magic bullet you mean, is a very overloaded skill and stuns/dazes for a long time for a ranged 1/2s cast that's meant for interrupting. It interrupts fine but interrupt CC should be short duration.Tides of time, again you miss where I ask for it to be cast behind you, the idea is to make it better to use but likewise it's an overloaded skill so reduce the CC duration an argument can be made to remove the stun entirely.Mantra of distration I asked for it to be able to be cast behind you again which would be a major usability buff to interrupt play styles but it can't be used to stunlock opponents by chaining mantra into diversion into mantra and then repeat 15s later because one recharges the other.

Mesmer has a lot of CC and needs it for interrupt play styles but it's not fun to be constantly CC'd so making them shorter duration allows you to keep the interrupt style while making it less egregious on the receiving end.

I think you missed the part where magic bullet is the only hard CC mesmer uses, if you think you can set up bursts with dazes then think again, interrupting is cute, its all it really is

Uses currently but that's not a reason to leave it as being a 2s stun, 2s daze, blind to last target and confusion to all with a 25s CD. Signet of domination is rarely used but if you reduce it's cool down to 30s then a lot of people will start playing it, 3s stun with a 1/4s cast is basically a free kill.

then why the heck would you make it 1/4s cast time? lol, you want cutsy interrupt playstyle then go for it, grab all the garbage interrupt traits and knock yourself outbut dont come back crying when the balancing geniuses implement these changes and combo oriented class has to set up their bursts with 1/4s daze xd

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@apharma.3741I like the changes.classes with most broken cc -> nerf by 10%-15%mesmer -> triple nerf to single skill that nobody even uses, nerf signet by 66%, nerf pistol by 50%

Nerf signet? I guess you missed where I said reduce it's cool down to 30s and when you trait it that can remove 5 boons, CC and give you 1s of invuln, it would be insanely broken as a 3s stun and even 2s would make it a sure pick.Pistol, magic bullet you mean, is a very overloaded skill and stuns/dazes for a long time for a ranged 1/2s cast that's meant for interrupting. It interrupts fine but interrupt CC should be short duration.Tides of time, again you miss where I ask for it to be cast behind you, the idea is to make it better to use but likewise it's an overloaded skill so reduce the CC duration an argument can be made to remove the stun entirely.Mantra of distration I asked for it to be able to be cast behind you again which would be a major usability buff to interrupt play styles but it can't be used to stunlock opponents by chaining mantra into diversion into mantra and then repeat 15s later because one recharges the other.

Mesmer has a lot of CC and needs it for interrupt play styles but it's not fun to be constantly CC'd so making them shorter duration allows you to keep the interrupt style while making it less egregious on the receiving end.

I think you missed the part where magic bullet is the only hard CC mesmer uses, if you think you can set up bursts with dazes then think again, interrupting is cute, its all it really is

Every Mesmer who cannot hit its burst without a stun simply cannot reactively outplay opponents and is nothing more than a oneshot hero and not a decent Mesmer at all. Removing the instant stun from f3 is one of the balance changes i 100% agree to.

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@bravan.3876 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@apharma.3741I like the changes.classes with most broken cc -> nerf by 10%-15%mesmer -> triple nerf to single skill that nobody even uses, nerf signet by 66%, nerf pistol by 50%

Nerf signet? I guess you missed where I said reduce it's cool down to 30s and when you trait it that can remove 5 boons, CC and give you 1s of invuln, it would be insanely broken as a 3s stun and even 2s would make it a sure pick.Pistol, magic bullet you mean, is a very overloaded skill and stuns/dazes for a long time for a ranged 1/2s cast that's meant for interrupting. It interrupts fine but interrupt CC should be short duration.Tides of time, again you miss where I ask for it to be cast behind you, the idea is to make it better to use but likewise it's an overloaded skill so reduce the CC duration an argument can be made to remove the stun entirely.Mantra of distration I asked for it to be able to be cast behind you again which would be a major usability buff to interrupt play styles but it can't be used to stunlock opponents by chaining mantra into diversion into mantra and then repeat 15s later because one recharges the other.

Mesmer has a lot of CC and needs it for interrupt play styles but it's not fun to be constantly CC'd so making them shorter duration allows you to keep the interrupt style while making it less egregious on the receiving end.

I think you missed the part where magic bullet is the only hard CC mesmer uses, if you think you can set up bursts with dazes then think again, interrupting is cute, its all it really is

Every Mesmer who cannot hit its burst without a stun simply cannot reactively outplay opponents and is nothing more than a oneshot hero and not a decent Mesmer at all. Removing the instant stun from f3 is one of the balance changes i 100% agree to.

every enemy who gets hit by mesmer burst without stun simply cannot reactively outplay oponents by pressing dodge is nothing more then "?" and not a decent player at all.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@apharma.3741I like the changes.classes with most broken cc -> nerf by 10%-15%mesmer -> triple nerf to single skill that nobody even uses, nerf signet by 66%, nerf pistol by 50%

Nerf signet? I guess you missed where I said reduce it's cool down to 30s and when you trait it that can remove 5 boons, CC and give you 1s of invuln, it would be insanely broken as a 3s stun and even 2s would make it a sure pick.Pistol, magic bullet you mean, is a very overloaded skill and stuns/dazes for a long time for a ranged 1/2s cast that's meant for interrupting. It interrupts fine but interrupt CC should be short duration.Tides of time, again you miss where I ask for it to be cast behind you, the idea is to make it better to use but likewise it's an overloaded skill so reduce the CC duration an argument can be made to remove the stun entirely.Mantra of distration I asked for it to be able to be cast behind you again which would be a major usability buff to interrupt play styles but it can't be used to stunlock opponents by chaining mantra into diversion into mantra and then repeat 15s later because one recharges the other.

Mesmer has a lot of CC and needs it for interrupt play styles but it's not fun to be constantly CC'd so making them shorter duration allows you to keep the interrupt style while making it less egregious on the receiving end.

I think you missed the part where magic bullet is the only hard CC mesmer uses, if you think you can set up bursts with dazes then think again, interrupting is cute, its all it really is

Every Mesmer who cannot hit its burst without a stun simply cannot reactively outplay opponents and is nothing more than a oneshot hero and not a decent Mesmer at all. Removing the instant stun from f3 is one of the balance changes i 100% agree to.

every enemy who gets hit by mesmer burst without stun simply cannot reactively outplay oponents by pressing dodge is nothing more then "?" and not a decent player at all.

More concrete just for you: IF you need an instant stun to hit your skills on a class that has instant driven combos, teleports and stealth than you are just a bad Mesmer. Mesmer doesn't need an instant stun to hit his skills, you can bait dodges and outplay opponents and even outspeed opponents. Mesmers basic mechanics are very strong they do not need a lock down mechanic, at leats not an instant lock down. Mesmer, a burst class with (nearly) oneshot potential will never be balanced with an instant lock down.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@apharma.3741I like the changes.classes with most broken cc -> nerf by 10%-15%mesmer -> triple nerf to single skill that nobody even uses, nerf signet by 66%, nerf pistol by 50%

Nerf signet? I guess you missed where I said reduce it's cool down to 30s and when you trait it that can remove 5 boons, CC and give you 1s of invuln, it would be insanely broken as a 3s stun and even 2s would make it a sure pick.Pistol, magic bullet you mean, is a very overloaded skill and stuns/dazes for a long time for a ranged 1/2s cast that's meant for interrupting. It interrupts fine but interrupt CC should be short duration.Tides of time, again you miss where I ask for it to be cast behind you, the idea is to make it better to use but likewise it's an overloaded skill so reduce the CC duration an argument can be made to remove the stun entirely.Mantra of distration I asked for it to be able to be cast behind you again which would be a major usability buff to interrupt play styles but it can't be used to stunlock opponents by chaining mantra into diversion into mantra and then repeat 15s later because one recharges the other.

Mesmer has a lot of CC and needs it for interrupt play styles but it's not fun to be constantly CC'd so making them shorter duration allows you to keep the interrupt style while making it less egregious on the receiving end.

I think you missed the part where magic bullet is the only hard CC mesmer uses, if you think you can set up bursts with dazes then think again, interrupting is cute, its all it really is

Uses currently but that's not a reason to leave it as being a 2s stun, 2s daze, blind to last target and confusion to all with a 25s CD. Signet of domination is rarely used but if you reduce it's cool down to 30s then a lot of people will start playing it, 3s stun with a 1/4s cast is basically a free kill.

then why the heck would you make it 1/4s cast time? lol, you want cutsy interrupt playstyle then go for it, grab all the garbage interrupt traits and knock yourself outbut dont come back crying when the balancing geniuses implement these changes and combo oriented class has to set up their bursts with 1/4s daze xd

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Domination

It's already a 1/4s cast time.Also interrupt mesmer was a thing till they massively buffed the amount of CC mesmer had to make it brain dead easy to interrupt.Edit: Being brain dead easy to interrupt resulting in interrupt traits getting nerfed below the floor.

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@bravan.3876 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@apharma.3741I like the changes.classes with most broken cc -> nerf by 10%-15%mesmer -> triple nerf to single skill that nobody even uses, nerf signet by 66%, nerf pistol by 50%

Nerf signet? I guess you missed where I said reduce it's cool down to 30s and when you trait it that can remove 5 boons, CC and give you 1s of invuln, it would be insanely broken as a 3s stun and even 2s would make it a sure pick.Pistol, magic bullet you mean, is a very overloaded skill and stuns/dazes for a long time for a ranged 1/2s cast that's meant for interrupting. It interrupts fine but interrupt CC should be short duration.Tides of time, again you miss where I ask for it to be cast behind you, the idea is to make it better to use but likewise it's an overloaded skill so reduce the CC duration an argument can be made to remove the stun entirely.Mantra of distration I asked for it to be able to be cast behind you again which would be a major usability buff to interrupt play styles but it can't be used to stunlock opponents by chaining mantra into diversion into mantra and then repeat 15s later because one recharges the other.

Mesmer has a lot of CC and needs it for interrupt play styles but it's not fun to be constantly CC'd so making them shorter duration allows you to keep the interrupt style while making it less egregious on the receiving end.

I think you missed the part where magic bullet is the only hard CC mesmer uses, if you think you can set up bursts with dazes then think again, interrupting is cute, its all it really is

Every Mesmer who cannot hit its burst without a stun simply cannot reactively outplay opponents and is nothing more than a oneshot hero and not a decent Mesmer at all. Removing the instant stun from f3 is one of the balance changes i 100% agree to.

every enemy who gets hit by mesmer burst without stun simply cannot reactively outplay oponents by pressing dodge is nothing more then "?" and not a decent player at all.

More concrete just for you: IF you need an instant stun to hit your skills on a class that has instant driven combos, teleports and stealth than you are just a bad Mesmer. Mesmer doesn't need an instant stun to hit his skills, you can bait dodges and outplay opponents and even outspeed opponents. Mesmers basic mechanics are very strong they do not need a lock down mechanic, at leats not an instant lock down. Mesmer, a burst class with (nearly) oneshot potential will never be balanced with an instant lock down.

thats why with all the stealth and "instant" lockdown we see mesmers everywhere, like shrooms after the rain"instant" driven combos made off long cast time combined with teleport, or just tiny CC combined with cast time longer then CC itself

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@apharma.3741 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@apharma.3741I like the changes.classes with most broken cc -> nerf by 10%-15%mesmer -> triple nerf to single skill that nobody even uses, nerf signet by 66%, nerf pistol by 50%

Nerf signet? I guess you missed where I said reduce it's cool down to 30s and when you trait it that can remove 5 boons, CC and give you 1s of invuln, it would be insanely broken as a 3s stun and even 2s would make it a sure pick.Pistol, magic bullet you mean, is a very overloaded skill and stuns/dazes for a long time for a ranged 1/2s cast that's meant for interrupting. It interrupts fine but interrupt CC should be short duration.Tides of time, again you miss where I ask for it to be cast behind you, the idea is to make it better to use but likewise it's an overloaded skill so reduce the CC duration an argument can be made to remove the stun entirely.Mantra of distration I asked for it to be able to be cast behind you again which would be a major usability buff to interrupt play styles but it can't be used to stunlock opponents by chaining mantra into diversion into mantra and then repeat 15s later because one recharges the other.

Mesmer has a lot of CC and needs it for interrupt play styles but it's not fun to be constantly CC'd so making them shorter duration allows you to keep the interrupt style while making it less egregious on the receiving end.

I think you missed the part where magic bullet is the only hard CC mesmer uses, if you think you can set up bursts with dazes then think again, interrupting is cute, its all it really is

Uses currently but that's not a reason to leave it as being a 2s stun, 2s daze, blind to last target and confusion to all with a 25s CD. Signet of domination is rarely used but if you reduce it's cool down to 30s then a lot of people will start playing it, 3s stun with a 1/4s cast is basically a free kill.

then why the heck would you make it 1/4s cast time? lol, you want cutsy interrupt playstyle then go for it, grab all the garbage interrupt traits and knock yourself outbut dont come back crying when the balancing geniuses implement these changes and combo oriented class has to set up their bursts with 1/4s daze xd

It's already a 1/4s cast time.Also interrupt mesmer was a thing till they massively buffed the amount of CC mesmer had to make it brain dead easy to interrupt.Edit: Being brain dead easy to interrupt resulting in interrupt traits getting nerfed below the floor.

signet is not 1/4s and even if it was I doubt it would be used anyways

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@apharma.3741I like the changes.classes with most broken cc -> nerf by 10%-15%mesmer -> triple nerf to single skill that nobody even uses, nerf signet by 66%, nerf pistol by 50%

Nerf signet? I guess you missed where I said reduce it's cool down to 30s and when you trait it that can remove 5 boons, CC and give you 1s of invuln, it would be insanely broken as a 3s stun and even 2s would make it a sure pick.Pistol, magic bullet you mean, is a very overloaded skill and stuns/dazes for a long time for a ranged 1/2s cast that's meant for interrupting. It interrupts fine but interrupt CC should be short duration.Tides of time, again you miss where I ask for it to be cast behind you, the idea is to make it better to use but likewise it's an overloaded skill so reduce the CC duration an argument can be made to remove the stun entirely.Mantra of distration I asked for it to be able to be cast behind you again which would be a major usability buff to interrupt play styles but it can't be used to stunlock opponents by chaining mantra into diversion into mantra and then repeat 15s later because one recharges the other.

Mesmer has a lot of CC and needs it for interrupt play styles but it's not fun to be constantly CC'd so making them shorter duration allows you to keep the interrupt style while making it less egregious on the receiving end.

I think you missed the part where magic bullet is the only hard CC mesmer uses, if you think you can set up bursts with dazes then think again, interrupting is cute, its all it really is

Uses currently but that's not a reason to leave it as being a 2s stun, 2s daze, blind to last target and confusion to all with a 25s CD. Signet of domination is rarely used but if you reduce it's cool down to 30s then a lot of people will start playing it, 3s stun with a 1/4s cast is basically a free kill.

then why the heck would you make it 1/4s cast time? lol, you want cutsy interrupt playstyle then go for it, grab all the garbage interrupt traits and knock yourself outbut dont come back crying when the balancing geniuses implement these changes and combo oriented class has to set up their bursts with 1/4s daze xd

It's already a 1/4s cast time.Also interrupt mesmer was a thing till they massively buffed the amount of CC mesmer had to make it brain dead easy to interrupt.Edit: Being brain dead easy to interrupt resulting in interrupt traits getting nerfed below the floor.

signet is not 1/4s and even if it was I doubt it would be used anyways

My mistake in game it's 1/2s and they did change it to be 0.56s

Competitive content update: February 25, 2020Slowed down the animation so the stun occurs at 0.56 seconds (up from 0.36 seconds).

I still think it's too fast a cast to be a 3s stun.

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@apharma.3741 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@apharma.3741I like the changes.classes with most broken cc -> nerf by 10%-15%mesmer -> triple nerf to single skill that nobody even uses, nerf signet by 66%, nerf pistol by 50%

Nerf signet? I guess you missed where I said reduce it's cool down to 30s and when you trait it that can remove 5 boons, CC and give you 1s of invuln, it would be insanely broken as a 3s stun and even 2s would make it a sure pick.Pistol, magic bullet you mean, is a very overloaded skill and stuns/dazes for a long time for a ranged 1/2s cast that's meant for interrupting. It interrupts fine but interrupt CC should be short duration.Tides of time, again you miss where I ask for it to be cast behind you, the idea is to make it better to use but likewise it's an overloaded skill so reduce the CC duration an argument can be made to remove the stun entirely.Mantra of distration I asked for it to be able to be cast behind you again which would be a major usability buff to interrupt play styles but it can't be used to stunlock opponents by chaining mantra into diversion into mantra and then repeat 15s later because one recharges the other.

Mesmer has a lot of CC and needs it for interrupt play styles but it's not fun to be constantly CC'd so making them shorter duration allows you to keep the interrupt style while making it less egregious on the receiving end.

I think you missed the part where magic bullet is the only hard CC mesmer uses, if you think you can set up bursts with dazes then think again, interrupting is cute, its all it really is

Uses currently but that's not a reason to leave it as being a 2s stun, 2s daze, blind to last target and confusion to all with a 25s CD. Signet of domination is rarely used but if you reduce it's cool down to 30s then a lot of people will start playing it, 3s stun with a 1/4s cast is basically a free kill.

then why the heck would you make it 1/4s cast time? lol, you want cutsy interrupt playstyle then go for it, grab all the garbage interrupt traits and knock yourself outbut dont come back crying when the balancing geniuses implement these changes and combo oriented class has to set up their bursts with 1/4s daze xd

It's already a 1/4s cast time.Also interrupt mesmer was a thing till they massively buffed the amount of CC mesmer had to make it brain dead easy to interrupt.Edit: Being brain dead easy to interrupt resulting in interrupt traits getting nerfed below the floor.

it is 1/2 seconds go into the game and check for yourself

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@apharma.3741 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@apharma.3741I like the changes.classes with most broken cc -> nerf by 10%-15%mesmer -> triple nerf to single skill that nobody even uses, nerf signet by 66%, nerf pistol by 50%

Nerf signet? I guess you missed where I said reduce it's cool down to 30s and when you trait it that can remove 5 boons, CC and give you 1s of invuln, it would be insanely broken as a 3s stun and even 2s would make it a sure pick.Pistol, magic bullet you mean, is a very overloaded skill and stuns/dazes for a long time for a ranged 1/2s cast that's meant for interrupting. It interrupts fine but interrupt CC should be short duration.Tides of time, again you miss where I ask for it to be cast behind you, the idea is to make it better to use but likewise it's an overloaded skill so reduce the CC duration an argument can be made to remove the stun entirely.Mantra of distration I asked for it to be able to be cast behind you again which would be a major usability buff to interrupt play styles but it can't be used to stunlock opponents by chaining mantra into diversion into mantra and then repeat 15s later because one recharges the other.

Mesmer has a lot of CC and needs it for interrupt play styles but it's not fun to be constantly CC'd so making them shorter duration allows you to keep the interrupt style while making it less egregious on the receiving end.

I think you missed the part where magic bullet is the only hard CC mesmer uses, if you think you can set up bursts with dazes then think again, interrupting is cute, its all it really is

Uses currently but that's not a reason to leave it as being a 2s stun, 2s daze, blind to last target and confusion to all with a 25s CD. Signet of domination is rarely used but if you reduce it's cool down to 30s then a lot of people will start playing it, 3s stun with a 1/4s cast is basically a free kill.

then why the heck would you make it 1/4s cast time? lol, you want cutsy interrupt playstyle then go for it, grab all the garbage interrupt traits and knock yourself outbut dont come back crying when the balancing geniuses implement these changes and combo oriented class has to set up their bursts with 1/4s daze xd

It's already a 1/4s cast time.Also interrupt mesmer was a thing till they massively buffed the amount of CC mesmer had to make it brain dead easy to interrupt.Edit: Being brain dead easy to interrupt resulting in interrupt traits getting nerfed below the floor.

signet is not 1/4s and even if it was I doubt it would be used anyways

My mistake in game it's 1/2s and they did change it to be 0.56s

Competitive content update: February 25, 2020Slowed down the animation so the stun occurs at 0.56 seconds (up from 0.36 seconds).

I still think it's too fast a cast to be a 3s stun.

having 1 broken CC doesnt really matter, classes that actually lock people down have MUCH more CC then 1 strong one. everyone runs AT LEAST 1 way to remove CC. most run 2-3 or have multiple easy was to avoid/mitigate CC.GL stunning ranger that runs Protect me and lightning reflexes, you can land every single CC and they just remove them becouse 24s CD vs 45s cdand SoD is not even broken to begin with.Classes that lock you down are not mesmer with their 1 stun and dazes, its classes that have multiple low cooldown hard CC.Just think logically for a sec, you use 45s CD with 0,5s cast time to ONLY stun your enemy. and enemy FAILS to block/dodge/los the CC can REMOVE it compleatly with ability that provides ADITIONAL effects like evade/cleanse/barriers/movement etc, on LOWER cooldown.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@apharma.3741I like the changes.classes with most broken cc -> nerf by 10%-15%mesmer -> triple nerf to single skill that nobody even uses, nerf signet by 66%, nerf pistol by 50%

Nerf signet? I guess you missed where I said reduce it's cool down to 30s and when you trait it that can remove 5 boons, CC and give you 1s of invuln, it would be insanely broken as a 3s stun and even 2s would make it a sure pick.Pistol, magic bullet you mean, is a very overloaded skill and stuns/dazes for a long time for a ranged 1/2s cast that's meant for interrupting. It interrupts fine but interrupt CC should be short duration.Tides of time, again you miss where I ask for it to be cast behind you, the idea is to make it better to use but likewise it's an overloaded skill so reduce the CC duration an argument can be made to remove the stun entirely.Mantra of distration I asked for it to be able to be cast behind you again which would be a major usability buff to interrupt play styles but it can't be used to stunlock opponents by chaining mantra into diversion into mantra and then repeat 15s later because one recharges the other.

Mesmer has a lot of CC and needs it for interrupt play styles but it's not fun to be constantly CC'd so making them shorter duration allows you to keep the interrupt style while making it less egregious on the receiving end.

I think you missed the part where magic bullet is the only hard CC mesmer uses, if you think you can set up bursts with dazes then think again, interrupting is cute, its all it really is

Uses currently but that's not a reason to leave it as being a 2s stun, 2s daze, blind to last target and confusion to all with a 25s CD. Signet of domination is rarely used but if you reduce it's cool down to 30s then a lot of people will start playing it, 3s stun with a 1/4s cast is basically a free kill.

then why the heck would you make it 1/4s cast time? lol, you want cutsy interrupt playstyle then go for it, grab all the garbage interrupt traits and knock yourself outbut dont come back crying when the balancing geniuses implement these changes and combo oriented class has to set up their bursts with 1/4s daze xd

It's already a 1/4s cast time.Also interrupt mesmer was a thing till they massively buffed the amount of CC mesmer had to make it brain dead easy to interrupt.Edit: Being brain dead easy to interrupt resulting in interrupt traits getting nerfed below the floor.

signet is not 1/4s and even if it was I doubt it would be used anyways

My mistake in game it's 1/2s and they did change it to be 0.56s

Competitive content update: February 25, 2020Slowed down the animation so the stun occurs at 0.56 seconds (up from 0.36 seconds).

I still think it's too fast a cast to be a 3s stun.

having 1 broken CC doesnt really matter, classes that actually lock people down have MUCH more CC then 1 strong one. everyone runs AT LEAST 1 way to remove CC. most run 2-3 or have multiple easy was to avoid/mitigate CC.GL stunning ranger that runs Protect me and lightning reflexes, you can land every single CC and they just remove them becouse 24s CD vs 45s cdand SoD is not even broken to begin with.Classes that lock you down are not mesmer with their 1 stun and dazes, its classes that have multiple low cooldown hard CC.
Just think logically for a sec, you use 45s CD with 0,5s cast time to ONLY stun your enemy. and enemy FAILS to block/dodge/los the CC can REMOVE it compleatly with ability that provides ADITIONAL effects like evade/cleanse/barriers/movement etc, on LOWER cooldown.

Thing is I deliberately said to reduce SoD cool down to 30s so it would be a much shorter cool down. Ask yourself why would I want SoD on a 30s CD? Well look at the traits associated and think what builds you could make and run with it, especially on core. It would be a very good change.

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@apharma.3741 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@apharma.3741I like the changes.classes with most broken cc -> nerf by 10%-15%mesmer -> triple nerf to single skill that nobody even uses, nerf signet by 66%, nerf pistol by 50%

Nerf signet? I guess you missed where I said reduce it's cool down to 30s and when you trait it that can remove 5 boons, CC and give you 1s of invuln, it would be insanely broken as a 3s stun and even 2s would make it a sure pick.Pistol, magic bullet you mean, is a very overloaded skill and stuns/dazes for a long time for a ranged 1/2s cast that's meant for interrupting. It interrupts fine but interrupt CC should be short duration.Tides of time, again you miss where I ask for it to be cast behind you, the idea is to make it better to use but likewise it's an overloaded skill so reduce the CC duration an argument can be made to remove the stun entirely.Mantra of distration I asked for it to be able to be cast behind you again which would be a major usability buff to interrupt play styles but it can't be used to stunlock opponents by chaining mantra into diversion into mantra and then repeat 15s later because one recharges the other.

Mesmer has a lot of CC and needs it for interrupt play styles but it's not fun to be constantly CC'd so making them shorter duration allows you to keep the interrupt style while making it less egregious on the receiving end.

I think you missed the part where magic bullet is the only hard CC mesmer uses, if you think you can set up bursts with dazes then think again, interrupting is cute, its all it really is

Uses currently but that's not a reason to leave it as being a 2s stun, 2s daze, blind to last target and confusion to all with a 25s CD. Signet of domination is rarely used but if you reduce it's cool down to 30s then a lot of people will start playing it, 3s stun with a 1/4s cast is basically a free kill.

then why the heck would you make it 1/4s cast time? lol, you want cutsy interrupt playstyle then go for it, grab all the garbage interrupt traits and knock yourself outbut dont come back crying when the balancing geniuses implement these changes and combo oriented class has to set up their bursts with 1/4s daze xd

It's already a 1/4s cast time.Also interrupt mesmer was a thing till they massively buffed the amount of CC mesmer had to make it brain dead easy to interrupt.Edit: Being brain dead easy to interrupt resulting in interrupt traits getting nerfed below the floor.

signet is not 1/4s and even if it was I doubt it would be used anyways

My mistake in game it's 1/2s and they did change it to be 0.56s

Competitive content update: February 25, 2020Slowed down the animation so the stun occurs at 0.56 seconds (up from 0.36 seconds).

I still think it's too fast a cast to be a 3s stun.

having 1 broken CC doesnt really matter, classes that actually lock people down have MUCH more CC then 1 strong one. everyone runs AT LEAST 1 way to remove CC. most run 2-3 or have multiple easy was to avoid/mitigate CC.GL stunning ranger that runs Protect me and lightning reflexes, you can land every single CC and they just remove them becouse 24s CD vs 45s cdand SoD is not even broken to begin with.Classes that lock you down are not mesmer with their 1 stun and dazes, its classes that have multiple low cooldown hard CC.
Just think logically for a sec, you use 45s CD with 0,5s cast time to ONLY stun your enemy. and enemy FAILS to block/dodge/los the CC can REMOVE it compleatly with ability that provides ADITIONAL effects like evade/cleanse/barriers/movement etc, on LOWER cooldown.

Thing is I deliberately said to reduce SoD cool down to 30s so it would be a much shorter cool down. Ask yourself why would I want SoD on a 30s CD? Well look at the traits associated and think what builds you could make and run with it, especially on core. It would be a very good change.

since SoD is unusable, making any change whatsoever could work, but 30s cd 1s stun is shit no matter how you look at it, if you wanna rip boons with it then buff disenchanter, its disenchaters role to remove the boons and not make utterly useless utilities and spending entire traitlines to make them slightly usable.and ps, people overvalue invulnerability from signet use, MANY of them have no synergy with them at all, whats the use of 1s invulnerability if you use signet that stuns?what about SoM? it specifically blinds so that followup hit doesnt hit, then you kite, disort there is half useless too.I dont want to be forced to go specific traits to make trash skills OK.

PSS keep stunning utility for STUNS and make it worth using.Make boon rip utility for boon ripping and make it worth using.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@apharma.3741I like the changes.classes with most broken cc -> nerf by 10%-15%mesmer -> triple nerf to single skill that nobody even uses, nerf signet by 66%, nerf pistol by 50%

Nerf signet? I guess you missed where I said reduce it's cool down to 30s and when you trait it that can remove 5 boons, CC and give you 1s of invuln, it would be insanely broken as a 3s stun and even 2s would make it a sure pick.Pistol, magic bullet you mean, is a very overloaded skill and stuns/dazes for a long time for a ranged 1/2s cast that's meant for interrupting. It interrupts fine but interrupt CC should be short duration.Tides of time, again you miss where I ask for it to be cast behind you, the idea is to make it better to use but likewise it's an overloaded skill so reduce the CC duration an argument can be made to remove the stun entirely.Mantra of distration I asked for it to be able to be cast behind you again which would be a major usability buff to interrupt play styles but it can't be used to stunlock opponents by chaining mantra into diversion into mantra and then repeat 15s later because one recharges the other.

Mesmer has a lot of CC and needs it for interrupt play styles but it's not fun to be constantly CC'd so making them shorter duration allows you to keep the interrupt style while making it less egregious on the receiving end.

I think you missed the part where magic bullet is the only hard CC mesmer uses, if you think you can set up bursts with dazes then think again, interrupting is cute, its all it really is

Uses currently but that's not a reason to leave it as being a 2s stun, 2s daze, blind to last target and confusion to all with a 25s CD. Signet of domination is rarely used but if you reduce it's cool down to 30s then a lot of people will start playing it, 3s stun with a 1/4s cast is basically a free kill.

then why the heck would you make it 1/4s cast time? lol, you want cutsy interrupt playstyle then go for it, grab all the garbage interrupt traits and knock yourself outbut dont come back crying when the balancing geniuses implement these changes and combo oriented class has to set up their bursts with 1/4s daze xd

It's already a 1/4s cast time.Also interrupt mesmer was a thing till they massively buffed the amount of CC mesmer had to make it brain dead easy to interrupt.Edit: Being brain dead easy to interrupt resulting in interrupt traits getting nerfed below the floor.

signet is not 1/4s and even if it was I doubt it would be used anyways

My mistake in game it's 1/2s and they did change it to be 0.56s

Competitive content update: February 25, 2020Slowed down the animation so the stun occurs at 0.56 seconds (up from 0.36 seconds).

I still think it's too fast a cast to be a 3s stun.

having 1 broken CC doesnt really matter, classes that actually lock people down have MUCH more CC then 1 strong one. everyone runs AT LEAST 1 way to remove CC. most run 2-3 or have multiple easy was to avoid/mitigate CC.GL stunning ranger that runs Protect me and lightning reflexes, you can land every single CC and they just remove them becouse 24s CD vs 45s cdand SoD is not even broken to begin with.Classes that lock you down are not mesmer with their 1 stun and dazes, its classes that have multiple low cooldown hard CC.
Just think logically for a sec, you use 45s CD with 0,5s cast time to ONLY stun your enemy. and enemy FAILS to block/dodge/los the CC can REMOVE it compleatly with ability that provides ADITIONAL effects like evade/cleanse/barriers/movement etc, on LOWER cooldown.

Thing is I deliberately said to reduce SoD cool down to 30s so it would be a much shorter cool down. Ask yourself why would I want SoD on a 30s CD? Well look at the traits associated and think what builds you could make and run with it, especially on core. It would be a very good change.

since SoD is unusable, making any change whatsoever could work, but 30s cd 1s stun is kitten no matter how you look at it, if you wanna rip boons with it then buff disenchanter, its disenchaters role to remove the boons and not make utterly useless utilities and spending entire traitlines to make them slightly usable.and ps, people overvalue invulnerability from signet use, MANY of them have no synergy with them at all, whats the use of 1s invulnerability if you use signet that stuns?what about SoM? it specifically blinds so that followup hit doesnt hit, then you kite, disort there is half useless too.I dont want to be forced to go specific traits to make trash skills OK.

Thing is SoD traited would be 1/2s cast and remove 5 boons (6 with dom trait) while giving you 1s invuln. In a 1v1 used right then it'll remove all the buffs a class has even something like a prot holo will feel it. The skill can be used offensively or defensively as it's got a quick enough cast.SoM is a great skill traited and SotE becomes a really strong heal with the trait, that's a triple signet build right there, all on 30s cool downs which is very low considering what's left after the last patch.

Combine this with either chaos and Signet of Illusions for defence and you might have a decent duelling build on your hands. Combine with Dom, duelling or even illusions trait lines and you have a different type of +1 build that can +1 in the normal shatter way or can strip for other classes. The idea is to slowly give another choice and then step up a little from there not instantly make it a great choice otherwise it's probably been over buffed.

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