Depths of Tyria Map

[hugo.4705]

Those times I'm looking for a map detailing the network of caverns constituting the Depths of Tyria. On both wikis, there is no map. Gw1 wiki, list the outposts but I can't imagine how they are linked between them. How big are those caverns? They are everywhere under the surface? Or only at certain locations?

[Randulf.7614]

Im not sure there is one, but it might be worth seeing if that_shaman has an overlay so you can can line things up from gw1s time. We also only explored some of it around the Shiverpeaks, but there were Tunnels outside of Old LA so widespread seems likely.

Bear in mind, Primordus has basically trashed the place and it likely bears little resemblance to what it used to when it was occupied by Asura as new tunnels and cave ins will have been made from his movements and prob a lot are filled with magma flows

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

No one's made one yet, partially because it's fairly hard to link all the dungeons together. They don't exactly place well because the dungeons weren't actually designed to - they just made 8 large dungeons of different themes and a dozen exits, and closed them off piece by piece to make the dungeons.

It isn't exactly clear the Depths are truly linked directly - but rather via asura gate network for sure. Like we saw in GW1 for how to get to the Heart of the Shiverpeak maps, was solely via asura gate. Presumably they were, since the asura needed to build those gates, but those connections could have collapsed by GW1's time - they were never seen, either way, in game.

That said, Primordus would have reshaped the Depths completely, physically connecting them as it cleared out tracks of land in its waking moments.

[hugo.4705]

Thanks for the answers. It was just to know if we could expect fighting Primordius underground, but I think too it filled the caverns with lava.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

Given how GW2's maps works, any battle with Primordus cannot occur where a map already exists due to the layering situation... and we're filling up on Tyrian maps.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:Given how GW2's maps works, any battle with Primordus cannot occur where a map already exists due to the layering situation... and we're filling up on Tyrian maps.This has always left me somewhat puzzled at to where Anet will end up putting the Primordus maps. Unless its the upper part of the Mzguma region north of the Forsaken Thicket.

[hugo.4705]

There isn't a lot of region left, north of Maguuma wastes.... Scavenger causeway.... Or the whole east of the world map but that far east..... I just think north of maguuma wastes will be the better place, in the mountain...

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

Assuming that Season 5 leads into the Cantha expansion, then we either won't see Primordus for a long time, or it'll be moving to another continent like Kralkatorrik did. Hopefully the plot of Cantha expansion won't be "chase a powerful fire being into new lands" since that's basically a rehash of PoF.

[hugo.4705]

Yeah indeed, dunno why, I would like to see Largos at Cantha. I also think the basic plot of cantha is overrun by Sbubbles is very easy. But if it's not for a dragon, why going here, for a dictator?

[Fenom.9457]

@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:Given how GW2's maps works, any battle with Primordus cannot occur where a map already exists due to the layering situation... and we're filling up on Tyrian maps.This has always left me somewhat puzzled at to where Anet will end up putting the Primordus maps. Unless its the upper part of the Mzguma region north of the Forsaken Thicket.

Ring of Fire, sea of sorrows. Maybe deldrimor front?

[SunRoamer.5103]

Longtime forum lurker here - reading this topic, I suddenly felt an itch to throw together a quick map including all EotN dungeons, Sorrow's Furnace, Pre-Searing Catacombs, the Krytan depths which are part of the EotN starting quest, plus a stand-in for the Halloween Mausoleum and a smattering of underground GW2 locations (I should really create a different version with GW2's Darkrime Delves Map).

(best opened in a seperate tab, the image is much bigger than what the forums allow)

It's far from perfect for now, but there are a few interesting things to remark (dungeon distances vs. overground distances, positioning of entrances etc., overall a lot of nonsensical stuff due to how the dungeons were created I suppose)... I'll comment on those tomorrow though, I'm too tired right now.

Let me know if there are any other underground locations I forgot about and I'll add them (GW2's catacombs come to mind. I would like to turn it into a proper map eventually, not just a bunch of maps cut together.

[hugo.4705]

Thanks a lot for your map very interesting! Take my helpful. Indeed they are very spread; still none in far north maguuma wastes and woodland cascades, still possible to make amazing Asura-Utopia-Maya stuffs here, even with core races like Jotun, centaurs or zephyrites.

I think you only miss the underwater network in Tangled depths and yup Darkrime Delves.

[SunRoamer.5103]

I will continue to try and add more GW2 locations then. I was thinking Mini Dungeons and Jumping Puzzles (the one in Silverwastes is vast, for example), but there don't really seem to be any maps readily available on wiki and the like, so it will take longer if I have to go there myself.

In the meantime, I added GW2's Ascalon Catacombs, the Langmar Estate (well, not really underground actually), Tangled Depths' underwater streams and the part of the catacombs accessed during Gwen's story in the Bonus Mission Pack. I will add more tomorrow/next week and upload again.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@"SunRoamer.5103" said:Longtime forum lurker here - reading this topic, I suddenly felt an itch to throw together a quick map including all EotN dungeons, Sorrow's Furnace, Pre-Searing Catacombs, the Krytan depths which are part of the EotN starting quest, plus a stand-in for the Halloween Mausoleum and a smattering of underground GW2 locations (I should really create a different version with GW2's Darkrime Delves Map).

-snip map-

(best opened in a seperate tab, the image is much bigger than what the forums allow)

It's far from perfect for now, but there are a few interesting things to remark (dungeon distances vs. overground distances, positioning of entrances etc., overall a lot of nonsensical stuff due to how the dungeons were created I suppose)... I'll comment on those tomorrow though, I'm too tired right now.

Let me know if there are any other underground locations I forgot about and I'll add them (GW2's catacombs come to mind. I would like to turn it into a proper map eventually, not just a bunch of maps cut together.

Nicely done. Been thinking of doing the same tbh for all three (as well as finding where other maps like guild halls, pvp maps, etc. would go), and trying to turn it into an interactive map in a style akin to this fun old fan map.

One note about the Halloween Mausoleum is that you have it too high / wrong orientation - the entrance dungeon-wise is on the north end of that placement; you put the end of it at Rotscale's location. There's also The Dragon's Lair

There's a lot of underground locations in GW2, though the more notable ones (that is, not counting skritt and dredge caves) would be:

• Ascalon Catacombs dungeon
• Barradin's Crypt (Plains of Ashford)
• Langmar's Estate (technically underground now, wouldn't have been in GW1's era) (Plains of Ashford)
• Loreclaw Expanse (might not've been underground in GW1's era) (Plains of Ashford)
• Sunken Halls of Clarent (Iron Marches)
• Sunken Observatory (Kessex Hills)
• Tomb of the Primeval Kings and Derelect Delves (Desert Highlands)
• Kesho (Elon Riverlands)

That's off the top of my head at least. I'm sure there's more. There's also the Divinity's Reach catacombs which predate the city but all we see in-game is the Shining Blade Headquarters.

That said, this map does show a bit of an issue that EotN dungeon maps have in how they don't line up very well at all. One small fun fact though is that there are some prototype maps that exist in the EotN gw.dat which do a rough placement of the dungeons. This includes, for example, Catacombs of Kathandrax going up northward alongisde Sacnoth Valley's eastern side; similarly, the Cathedral of Flames remains off the map to the NW of Dalada Uplands. Of course such isn't canon, it's an interesting thing to see - ANet was clearly toying with the idea of having dungeons on the world map. By straight-up putting the maps and connecting the ends, you have Catacombs of Kathandrax overlapping with Rragar's Menagerie - though it's interesting to see how it lines up, that's not very likely. If one were to take the dat map into consideration, then CoK should be rotated 90 degrees. Similarly, other maps could be arguably rotated, to align entrance-exit directions. Using natural orientation of maps doesn't make sense for some - example, Frostmaw's final lair is open sky, but natural placement puts it under Jora's Homestead.

[SunRoamer.5103]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

There's a lot of underground locations in GW2, though the more notable ones (that is, not counting skritt and dredge caves) would be:

• Ascalon Catacombs dungeon
• Barradin's Crypt (Plains of Ashford)
• Langmar's Estate (technically underground now, wouldn't have been in GW1's era) (Plains of Ashford)
• Loreclaw Expanse (might not've been underground in GW1's era) (Plains of Ashford)
• Sunken Halls of Clarent (Iron Marches)
• Sunken Observatory (Kessex Hills)
• Tomb of the Primeval Kings and Derelect Delves (Desert Highlands)
• Kesho (Elon Riverlands)

Thank you Konig for the recommendations. I've gotten somewhat frustrated with GW2's underground locations because it can be difficult to get the proper map art - if it even exists. There seem to be many underground locations (e.g. the asura jumping puzzle in Sparkfly) where, upon entering the location, the area map is just... rocks.

I will update the map soon and also reply to your other remarks. Locations I have thought of apart from the ones you mentioned also include the Silverwastes Labyrinth, the corridors under Tarir alongside the Inner Chamber and the adjacent Guild Hall, the Artesian Waters, Durmand Priory and the Secret Collections, Font of Rhand, Vexa's Lab and maybe a couple more.

I didn't put Glint's Lair because between GW1, EoD and GW2 my memory got somewhat hazy about what and where it is actually supposed to be.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@SunRoamer.5103 said:I will update the map soon and also reply to your other remarks. Locations I have thought of apart from the ones you mentioned also include the Silverwastes Labyrinth, the corridors under Tarir alongside the Inner Chamber and the adjacent Guild Hall, the Artesian Waters, Durmand Priory and the Secret Collections, Font of Rhand, Vexa's Lab and maybe a couple more.Some of those are odd choices to put on a GW1 map since they didn't exist in GW1's time - particularly the guild halls, Durmand Priory, and Tarir's stuff. Forgot about the Font of Rhand, and the Artesian Waters would fit though I wouldn't consider that strictly underground; the JP tunnels in Silverwastes might have been around during GW1's time (but not the mordrem labyrinth or the sealed cave). Which is why I avoided mentioning all those various dredge mines throughout the Shiverpeaks - they probably weren't dwarven mines back in GW1's era.

But that reminds me of Forsaken Halls in Dredgehaunt Cliffs. Which, incidentally, looks like it'd overlap with the western part of level 1 Heart of the Shiverpeaks. Huh.

[SunRoamer.5103]

Updated the map with a few more locations. I decided to make two versions, one with GW1's map art as the background and one with GW2's map. I've also colour coded the different bits - GW1 dungeons and caves are highlighted in red, the successor's in yellow. As always, the maps are best viewed in a new tab so that they may load in their original size.

With GW1 map art:

With GW2 map art (slightly extended to the north and west):

(Interestingly enough, bodies of water in GW2 are painted in a value that is pretty close to the rest of the map... it doesn't really work as well in greyscale as the map of the first Guild Wars did.)

[SunRoamer.5103]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Nicely done. Been thinking of doing the same tbh for all three (as well as finding where other maps like guild halls, pvp maps, etc. would go), and trying to turn it into an interactive map in a style akin to this fun old fan map.

I love that map! Was that what Ascalon looked like during the alpha/beta of GW1? I only started playing a few weeks after the official release and never delved too deeply into what previous iterations of the game looked like (apart from knowing that, before Dociu got on board, the aesthetics were quite... different).

One note about the Halloween Mausoleum is that you have it too high / wrong orientation - the entrance dungeon-wise is on the north end of that placement; you put the end of it at Rotscale's location. There's also The Dragon's Lair.

Did I fix it correctly in the most recent map? In any case, I couldn't find a map of the Mausoleum, so I cobbled together an approximation with other dungeon pieces.

There's a lot of underground locations in GW2, though the more notable ones (that is, not counting skritt and dredge caves) would be:

• Barradin's Crypt (Plains of Ashford)
• Sunken Observatory (Kessex Hills)
• Tomb of the Primeval Kings and Derelect Delves (Desert Highlands)

Barradin's Vault doesn't have map art, sadly. I forgot about the Sunken Observatory and the Derelict Delves, guess there's a little more to add (not trying to be exhaustive at this point, anyways. The GW2 locations were a bit of an extra, originally). I also added the Shining Blade headquarters, although the placement feels... problematic.

That said, this map does show a bit of an issue that EotN dungeon maps have in how they don't line up very well at all. One small fun fact though is that there are some prototype maps that exist in the EotN gw.dat which do a rough placement of the dungeons. This includes, for example, Catacombs of Kathandrax going up northward alongisde Sacnoth Valley's eastern side; similarly, the Cathedral of Flames remains off the map to the NW of Dalada Uplands. Of course such isn't canon, it's an interesting thing to see - ANet was clearly toying with the idea of having dungeons on the world map. By straight-up putting the maps and connecting the ends, you have Catacombs of Kathandrax overlapping with Rragar's Menagerie - though it's interesting to see how it lines up, that's not very likely. If one were to take the dat map into consideration, then CoK should be rotated 90 degrees. Similarly, other maps could be arguably rotated, to align entrance-exit directions. Using natural orientation of maps doesn't make sense for some - example, Frostmaw's final lair is open sky, but natural placement puts it under Jora's Homestead.

That prototype map sounds intriguing! Has anyone extracted it? I'd love to have a look.

For now I just wanted to put most of the important underground spaces into a single map, trying to put them at roughly the same scale as the overground maps and using the natural orientation they had as per the ingame compass. The next step would be to look at the many issues arising from these placements (such as the ones you mentioned, off the top of my head there is also the Ooze Pit which takes us right under/into Kralkratorrik) and decide on a more appropriate scale and orientation. E.g., most of them are long enough to cross the Shiverpeaks. While it might be fine for some of these to be epic dungeon crawls where the heroes' descent takes days, it seems unlikely that all of them should be as big as they appear here. Wasn't there a consensus of dungeon scale vs. overground scale for GW2?

As an aside, funnily enough one of the magma rooms of both Rragar's and Kathandrax' each PERFECTLY overlap with one another at the current orientation and scale, although this obviously makes no sense.

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:Some of those are odd choices to put on a GW1 map since they didn't exist in GW1's time - particularly the guild halls, Durmand Priory, and Tarir's stuff. Forgot about the Font of Rhand, and the Artesian Waters would fit though I wouldn't consider that strictly underground; the JP tunnels in Silverwastes might have been around during GW1's time (but not the mordrem labyrinth or the sealed cave). Which is why I avoided mentioning all those various dredge mines throughout the Shiverpeaks - they probably weren't dwarven mines back in GW1's era.

To be fair, I didn't necessarily intend for this to be a historical representation of what the Depths were at the time of GW1, but more of an analytical tool showing several underground spaces from both games. I think at this stage especially it is more interesting to have a simultaneous view of all the locations. Your comment did lead me to making the two different backgrounds (GW1 map vs. GW2 map) and distinguishing GW1 locations from GW2 locations by colour, however.

But that reminds me of Forsaken Halls in Dredgehaunt Cliffs. Which, incidentally, looks like it'd overlap with the western part of level 1 Heart of the Shiverpeaks. Huh.

Aaaaand this made me realise I misplaced them. I guess apart from breaking out of the Silverwastes to get into the Sealed Cave I will have to do some dungeoneering today to figure out how one gets from the door at Wyrmblood Lake to the north-eastern corner of the map.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@SunRoamer.5103 said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

Nicely done. Been thinking of doing the same tbh for all three (as well as finding where other maps like guild halls, pvp maps, etc. would go), and trying to turn it into an interactive map in a style akin to

this fun old fan map

.

I love that map! Was that what Ascalon looked like during the alpha/beta of GW1? I only started playing a few weeks after the official release and never delved too deeply into what previous iterations of the game looked like (apart from knowing that, before Dociu got on board, the aesthetics were quite... different).

It was for the E3 reveal. Which was a step past Alpha (which was pre-Dociu from my understanding), but not at the open betas yet. First beta, I guess?

One note about the Halloween Mausoleum is that you have it too high / wrong orientation - the entrance dungeon-wise is on the north end of that placement; you put the end of it at Rotscale's location. There's also The Dragon's Lair.

Did I fix it correctly in the most recent map? In any case, I couldn't find a map of the Mausoleum, so I cobbled together an approximation with other dungeon pieces.

You wouldn't find such a map because one doesn't exist. Technically speaking - it uses the same dungeon level as the three "intro to EotN" maps (and others, ofc, but those three overlap directly).

Did a quick paint job of what I mean using Beneath Lion's Arch map:

Of course, this is just accounting for where the quest takes place. Because they "forgot" to close off the rest of the dungeon, the real map would be this: https://i.imgur.com/ocjjeYL.png

That prototype map sounds intriguing! Has anyone extracted it? I'd love to have a look.

Here you go: just the maps; with EotN background. You'll notice that Riven Earth is just randomly shoved up there, for some reason. And seems Ooze Pits was originally intended to be an ice dungeon there instead. Frostmaw's Burrow was also a lot more structural in its earlier form. Overall, very basic and crude; but it is curious to see.

For now I just wanted to put most of the important underground spaces into a single map, trying to put them at roughly the same scale as the overground maps and using the natural orientation they had as per the ingame compass. The next step would be to look at the many issues arising from these placements (such as the ones you mentioned, off the top of my head there is also the Ooze Pit which takes us right under/into Kralkratorrik) and decide on a more appropriate scale and orientation. E.g., most of them are long enough to cross the Shiverpeaks. While it might be fine for some of these to be epic dungeon crawls where the heroes' descent takes days, it seems unlikely that all of them should be as big as they appear here. Wasn't there a consensus of dungeon scale vs. overground scale for GW2?There's no consistency in dungeon/story/raid/strike scaling to the open world for GW2, but it is clear the open world of GW2 is shrunk for gameplay purposes. Of the eight dungeons, only Arah, Caudecus's Manor, and Citadel of Flame match the open world's scaling - Ascalon Catacombs, Crucible of Eternity, and Honor of the Waves are roughly double the size. Forging Steel is similar, Darkrime Delves is unclear; Heart of the Volcano (S3 instance with primordus) also seems to be scaled differently. Twilight Arbor is effectively impossible to tell because there's no gap space for it in the world map; not sure about Sorrow's Embrace.

However, GW1 does a great job with scaling consistency - if you were to overlay, e.g., Undercity, Dragon's Throat or The Deep with the Cantha world map, they would line up perfectly. Same with Elona's few underground maps. The Dragon's Lair outpost area also overlaps with the world map perfectly.

The issue with the GW1 dungeons is that they all use the same eight maps - so the orientation with the compass / world map is always the same, even if logically it shouldn't be (this is part of why you get that near perfect overlap of Rragar's and Kathandrax).

To be fair, I didn't necessarily intend for this to be a historical representation of what the Depths were at the time of GW1, but more of an analytical tool showing several underground spaces from both games. I think at this stage especially it is more interesting to have a simultaneous view of all the locations.That's fair.

Aaaaand this made me realise I misplaced them. I guess apart from breaking out of the Silverwastes to get into the Sealed Cave I will have to do some dungeoneering today to figure out how one gets from the door at Wyrmblood Lake to the north-eastern corner of the map.Heart of the Shiverpeaks itself is tricky placement, because the icon usually depicts the dungeon's entrance, but this dungeon has two entrances (and both via asura gate at that).