Any thief participating in WvW zerg fights?

[HowlKamui.5120]

I mean actual zerg fights, and not picking off stragglers?

I'm the type of person who likes maining a single class, and im really enjoying roaming and small scale with my deadeye right now. Now, sometimes I have the itch to join zerg fights, and when I do I, I dont just want to be hitting single targets with snipes. It doesn't have to be meta, but are any of you running thief builds that's good at bombing and cleaving? I know staff daredevils have a niche in doing that with vault and bound, but all the resources i'm seeing for the playstyle are outdated. Bow 4 isn't what it used to be as well. Can I still run this? I don't have an organized guild w/ comms all the time so something that can be run with pugs is nice. I've read that acrobatics is good for that, but that it's been gutted recently.

Could any of you give me some tips on this?

[Infusion.7149]

Run critical strikes + trickery (boon rip+lead attacks) + daredevil for staff.

When you are attacking look for targets that hang outside the main squad without protection. Those are easier to kill. If you see downed targets either vault (#5) on them if or weakening charge (#2) if it is safe to do so or drop poison with choking gas (shortbow 4) to daze people trying to res and also slow the ressing people with stability up.

Try to leave one dodge for escaping, as you have three dodges you can play it as you would a core thief with shortened steal range. Roll for Initiative, Withdraw (the heal), and Shadowstep (3 condi clear) as well as signet of agility (which clears for others as well) are good utilities to run.

If you run Bound then you should be using your dodge offensively as well. If running unhindered combatant then you have more leeway with timing escapes.

If you're roaming you probably would have better luck running sword+dagger (boon rips) or sword+pistol (tried and true roaming builds with daze) if not pistol+dagger meme builds.

[HowlKamui.5120]

@Infusion.7149 said:Run critical strikes + trickery (boon rip+lead attacks) + daredevil for staff.

When you are attacking look for targets that hang outside the main squad without protection. Those are easier to kill. If you see downed targets either vault (#5) on them if or weakening charge (#2) if it is safe to do so or drop poison with choking gas (shortbow 4) to daze people trying to res and also slow the ressing people with stability up.

Try to leave one dodge for escaping, as you have three dodges you can play it as you would a core thief with shortened steal range. Roll for Initiative, Withdraw (the heal), and Shadowstep (3 condi clear) as well as signet of agility (which clears for others as well) are good utilities to run.

If you run Bound then you should be using your dodge offensively as well. If running unhindered combatant then you have more leeway with timing escapes.

If you're roaming you probably would have better luck running sword+dagger (boon rips) or sword+pistol (tried and true roaming builds with daze) if not pistol+dagger meme builds.

Thank you! I have roaming covered with my deadeye.

What are your thoughts on Acrobatics over Critical Strikes? or is Critical strikes with the defensive utilities already enough?

[Infusion.7149]

Acro was pretty gutted after the Feb 25 update. The main issue is the huge added cooldown on Instant reflexes and Hard to Catch. Pain Response isn't that strong when condis are everywhere and firebrands spit them out on auto attacks ; regen is not great from Upper Hand so essentially it's the 1 iniative + vigor from the minor trait. You have vigor from stealing due to Trickery.

If you're diligent about not putting yourself in suicidal situations such as well bombs you should be able to live just with 3rd dodge + Withdraw + shortbow 5 / roll for initiative/ shadowstep. Just be aware that there's many aura tempests out there now so if you see an overload air it is best to stow weapon and wait til the aura expires and/or watch for who gets the auras. It's a similar situation with spellbreakers that have full counter up.

edit: if it is unsafe to jump in you can range pressure with cluster bomb (shortbow #2)

As some commanders say "play sides" or "move to the left bomb to the right" for the backline classes (not applicable here since melee range but the idea is to hit the squishy targets such as DPS berserker, spellbreaker, power reaper, staff weaver, DPS scrapper, power herald and not minstrel FB/minstrel tempest/minstrel scrapper/trailblazer scourge/trailblazer condi herald). If you coordinate your vault timing with a well bomb it's going to be more effective.

[kash.9213]

I float around blob fights but will end up fighting inside for a long time. What are you trying to do in those blob fights though? Are you just trying to take some bodies or is there something specific you're trying to do for a squad or blob?

[HowlKamui.5120]

@"Infusion.7149" said:Acro was pretty gutted after the Feb 25 update. The main issue is the huge added cooldown on Instant reflexes and Hard to Catch. Pain Response isn't that strong when condis are everywhere and firebrands spit them out on auto attacks ; regen is not great from Upper Hand so essentially it's the 1 iniative + vigor from the minor trait. You have vigor from stealing due to Trickery.

If you're diligent about not putting yourself in suicidal situations such as well bombs you should be able to live just with 3rd dodge + Withdraw + shortbow 5 / roll for initiative/ shadowstep. Just be aware that there's many aura tempests out there now so if you see an overload air it is best to stow weapon and wait til the aura expires and/or watch for who gets the auras. It's a similar situation with spellbreakers that have full counter up.

edit: if it is unsafe to jump in you can range pressure with cluster bomb (shortbow #2)

As some commanders say "play sides" or "move to the left bomb to the right" for the backline classes (not applicable here since melee range but the idea is to hit the squishy targets such as DPS berserker, spellbreaker, power reaper, staff weaver, DPS scrapper, power herald and not minstrel FB/minstrel tempest/minstrel scrapper/trailblazer scourge/trailblazer condi herald). If you coordinate your vault timing with a well bomb it's going to be more effective.

This is very helpful information. I tend to be impatient in these things that's why I enjoyed my staff weaver. I can try bombing at 1200 range. But I didnt like roaming with it as I couldn't reset fights well.

Your tips make me want to get better at it because you make it seem like it is very doable. I'll work on this. Thank you for the advice on how sucky acrobatics is as well!