The underlying cause of nerf threads

[Axl.8924]

@Khalisto.5780 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Khalisto.5780 said:yup ppl mostly want their build to reign supreme with no bad matchup so can get most value with minimal efforts

while they don't achieve this they're very vocal on forums.

I believe the complaints start when there is effectively nothing on your class that can help against a specific enemy, not necessarily the same build that worked against others...just the lack of tools overall to deal with another problem altogether

and this i call balance

the FA weaver pre patch had nothing on mesmers but could burst a necro from 100% shroud to 20% life, but I knew that and never came on forums to call mesmer nerfs

i think most ppl dont understand their matchups and want to win fights they shouldnt, they prolly playing just one build and consistently die to this other class, which leads to them crying in the forums wanting the other class nerfed so they have no bad matchup

I think in the past there was some truth to OP classes.

For instance: It was pretty insane for rangers on soulbeast to be able to have infinite mobility/sustain and burst, while necros toughness was their tanking and they simply could not win no matter what because of mobility+ insta kill moves, and it wasn't just rangers who had this kind of thing, it was rangers, some eles, Warriors, guardians, Thieves especially holosmiths and def mesmers, which is why everyone complained about it, and its a good thing we went backwards, despite the vocal people who want fast paced, it was simpy a spam fest before pulling back all damage.

Now what we need is for countering to be based on build types rather than entire classes hard countering eachother leading to frustration.

I also think it is important to look from views of not just the masters of PVP but also the lowbies and balance both ends. I think it makes sense you want to look at both ends, but i would prefer if actual devs do the testing and make conclusions, since like others have said even high end players could have bias.

[Khalisto.5780]

@Axl.8924 said:

@Khalisto.5780 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Khalisto.5780 said:yup ppl mostly want their build to reign supreme with no bad matchup so can get most value with minimal efforts

while they don't achieve this they're very vocal on forums.

I believe the complaints start when there is effectively nothing on your class that can help against a specific enemy, not necessarily the same build that worked against others...just the lack of tools overall to deal with another problem altogether

and this i call balance

the FA weaver pre patch had nothing on mesmers but could burst a necro from 100% shroud to 20% life, but I knew that and never came on forums to call mesmer nerfs

i think most ppl dont understand their matchups and want to win fights they shouldnt, they prolly playing just one build and consistently die to this other class, which leads to them crying in the forums wanting the other class nerfed so they have no bad matchup

I think in the past there was some truth to OP classes.

For instance: It was pretty insane for rangers on soulbeast to be able to have infinite mobility/sustain and burst, while necros toughness was their tanking and they simply could not win no matter what because of mobility+ insta kill moves, and it wasn't just rangers who had this kind of thing, it was rangers, some eles, Warriors, guardians, Thieves especially holosmiths and def mesmers, which is why everyone complained about it, and its a good thing we went backwards, despite the vocal people who want fast paced, it was simpy a spam fest before pulling back all damage.

Now what we need is for countering to be based on build types rather than entire classes hard countering eachother leading to frustration.

I also think it is important to look from views of not just the masters of PVP but also the lowbies and balance both ends. I think it makes sense you want to look at both ends, but i would prefer if actual devs do the testing and make conclusions, since like others have said even high end players could have bias.

fire weaver was one of those cases good mobility, cleanses for condi 200 evades for power stun breaks, could cleave all mesmer clones just attuning to fire

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Khalisto.5780 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Khalisto.5780 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Khalisto.5780 said:yup ppl mostly want their build to reign supreme with no bad matchup so can get most value with minimal efforts

while they don't achieve this they're very vocal on forums.

I believe the complaints start when there is effectively nothing on your class that can help against a specific enemy, not necessarily the same build that worked against others...just the lack of tools overall to deal with another problem altogether

and this i call balance

the FA weaver pre patch had nothing on mesmers but could burst a necro from 100% shroud to 20% life, but I knew that and never came on forums to call mesmer nerfs

i think most ppl dont understand their matchups and want to win fights they shouldnt, they prolly playing just one build and consistently die to this other class, which leads to them crying in the forums wanting the other class nerfed so they have no bad matchup

I think in the past there was some truth to OP classes.

For instance: It was pretty insane for rangers on soulbeast to be able to have infinite mobility/sustain and burst, while necros toughness was their tanking and they simply could not win no matter what because of mobility+ insta kill moves, and it wasn't just rangers who had this kind of thing, it was rangers, some eles, Warriors, guardians, Thieves especially holosmiths and def mesmers, which is why everyone complained about it, and its a good thing we went backwards, despite the vocal people who want fast paced, it was simpy a spam fest before pulling back all damage.

Now what we need is for countering to be based on build types rather than entire classes hard countering eachother leading to frustration.

I also think it is important to look from views of not just the masters of PVP but also the lowbies and balance both ends. I think it makes sense you want to look at both ends, but i would prefer if actual devs do the testing and make conclusions, since like others have said even high end players could have bias.

fire weaver was one of those cases good mobility, cleanses for condi 200 evades for power stun breaks, could cleave all mesmer clones just attuning to fire

add in 2 separate projectile blocks on low cooldowns, 25s and and 30s, that act as invulnerabilities against condi mirage :D