How do you not be a trash thief that does 0 damage?

[Bast.7253]

@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"cptaylor.2670" said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"cptaylor.2670" said:

@"Crab Fear.1624" said:You play a mobile and evasive harasser.

You may do less damage but you can really kitten up someone's day by being pesky and not greedy.

Decap.

They want to sit on the node? Go back to being pesky, strip boons and interupt.

Save an escape in case they turn on you

Dont try ressing allies unless they have no los, no ports, and no way to hit you, or you will.be downed.

Move around and be pesky.

Dueling is a waste, be a kitten and hit them with your buddies.

Thief has no honor, so play with none.

So basically the point is to just decap and troll people? But if your team is constantly dying and there's someone from the enemy team on each point what are you supposed to do? Just troll and hope you lure in more people?

Not so much troll as much as "try to uneven even fights", but yes, its that and decapping. If your team is constantly dying and their team can guard the points, you lose. Its as simple as that. Thief is extremely reliant on his team matching theirs. If theyre getting crushed, the enemy team is useless.

And what if they have a thief? Then you can't really get away and if it's 2v1 or you're just bad at thief like I am you either die or take forever dueling them?

You run away. Thats the first and most important lesson any new thief has to learn, when and how to run away. Because you will be running away

a lot

. If the fight is lost, get out and see if you can find a new one.

lol I just don't see the point.

The point is that you can turn even fights uneven, and upset the balance between 2 teams. Of course, if your team is worse than theirs, there isnt much you can do, but arguably there isnt much you can do on most classes. But its an unusual playstyle, and you have to like it. If you tried playing thief wanting to be an assassin or a duelist, Im afraid youre playing the wrong class.

It didn't used to be that way though! And I've still seen some thieves that seemingly wreck people, including me, either dagger/pistol or sword/dagger and I have no idea how they do so much damage at once. Landing sword 3 ability after evade seems to be the best way to do damage with that build but I feel like it's next to impossible to land. Sword to immobilize seems to be kind of buggy for me. For that build it seems like it's just spamming sword 2 and avoiding as much damage as possible while occasionally landing decent damage.

I mean, exactly like this? No. But thief had been a decap and +1 bot for a long time. A

very

long time. And if theyre "wrecking" people, its usually low-health targets theyre finishing off, or theyre playing a bad build and you just see the rare times where it works, rather than the 90% where the build sucks.

Dagger pistol though I've still seen some do pretty good damage and in unranked against random unrated people I seem to do fine. Even dueling seems to go reasonable, it just feels like I'm spending 5 minutes dueling someone to get them down (if I get them down).

It does really poor damage. Backstabs usually hit for 5k or less nowadays, which is far from impressive. And honestly, no class should ever lose a duel against a D/P thief. D/P thieves damage and sustain is just outclassed by everyone.

I think swipe really killed the build for me and you almost have to run critical strikes/shadow arts/trickery to do decent damage but you lose so much defense.

Swipe sucks, but thats not the biggest reason. The biggest reason is actually that Assassins Signet got a bugfix that was a major nerf, as well as the general lowering of damage but not survivability with the last patch. Still, you can +1 people sometimes.

I'm not saying I want to see a ton of thieves running around one shotting people with backstabs, but the last balance patch definitely made it seem like even more of a handicap for a team than nearly every other profession you could choose from. The only scenario I can think of where it might be somewhat decent is against a slow no mobility comp that's stacking necros and firebrands or bunker weavers. But then you run the risk of them just camping a node all match.

Yeah thieves current situation is less than ideal. The assassin's signet bugfix nerf lowered damage by a lot, and tankiness went up hard, so now even +1ing is often not really all that effective.

Assasin Signet used to give 15% damage increae + the current 560 attack power . It was a bug

You can use these second spec linked that was tested by the creator of the thread , where you cc the enemy + burst him in 6 sec .

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/103273/how-should-i-improve-my-burst-combo-on-thief#latest

This seems like it would be highly situational and ineffective though. If they stun break you're left with practically no defenses or cooldowns. lol Might be fun to play around with in unranked or something though. Thanks!

[Lighter.5631]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:people always forget about shortbow, when in team fight, apply poison field constantly, that's 33% of enemy sustain gone(u don't even need to do damage) and also apply CC.and that's how your team will out perform your enemy team in terms of dps. and you can go in with dp to finish running low HP enemy often your team will take too much effort to catch

or if your team losing, or the fight is too long, decap.rev outperforms in +1 and brawling, but decap/shut down thief is still king, that's why it's still played in top.

Hate to break it to u all decent thieves kno the sit back in team fight and use poison and clusters, issue is it's not as effective as u make it out to be as most times that scenario ends with the thief outnumbered due to ur teammates still dying and thief is now forced to disengage. That IS the most effective team fight strategy for thief but it's not great. Thief still played at top cuz the players haven't gotten good enough on rev, if nothing changes in time players like sind prob be maining rev wrecking face and few thiefs will be left.

you are literally making no sense,when a class is truely bad, it will not be played at top level at all, no excuses, with 0 presence in the mAT last month in the finals. like some classes.

it's still played in top because people are not good at rev? the problem is with rev, not thief. without rev, thief will still be top, this game doesnt just play with 2 classes.what happens when anet nerf rev, like it's already guaranteed, thief will remain top.what happen to for example war when anet nerf rev? war is still trash, because there's still ranger, ele, fb, holo, necro etc.

meh, i never said any word when warrior are competing at mAT even tho it's 1/2 of the number of thieves, of mesmers. of fb.because i know, it's competing in the finals for a reason.

you've remained best and meta for so long, you failed to see how being second place in top level doesn't make you all the way trash.as long as people competing with thief in top levels, it is meta.

U actually are not making sense. Thief is played still at high level because sb5 allows it to rotate to decap, that is literally thief's only strength now and if conquest didn't operate as it does thief would be a completely dead class. Ur a warrior main forgive me if I value my opinion playing a class 6 yrs vs u who doesn't play the class lol. I love this community where players who don't play a class or don't have much experience on it try and tell mains of the class the state the class is in, its priceless.

i'm used to be war main pre HoT, but i'm plat 2 soloq thief as well, so i know my stuff

You are not making sense tho, you are just having the "what if talk", have you ever heard warrior say what if warrior doesnt have greatsword? or rev without sword? you never. what if conquest didnt operate this way?

but conquest will be forever the competitive pvp mode for gw2 pvp.and that means thief will be forever one of the top picks for top plays, like it has been since 2012, you should be grateful, there isnt a class that comes close to it.

6 years of thief you say?https://i.imgur.com/9RvT54D.png

[UNOwen.7132]

@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"cptaylor.2670" said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"cptaylor.2670" said:

@"Crab Fear.1624" said:You play a mobile and evasive harasser.

You may do less damage but you can really kitten up someone's day by being pesky and not greedy.

Decap.

They want to sit on the node? Go back to being pesky, strip boons and interupt.

Save an escape in case they turn on you

Dont try ressing allies unless they have no los, no ports, and no way to hit you, or you will.be downed.

Move around and be pesky.

Dueling is a waste, be a kitten and hit them with your buddies.

Thief has no honor, so play with none.

So basically the point is to just decap and troll people? But if your team is constantly dying and there's someone from the enemy team on each point what are you supposed to do? Just troll and hope you lure in more people?

Not so much troll as much as "try to uneven even fights", but yes, its that and decapping. If your team is constantly dying and their team can guard the points, you lose. Its as simple as that. Thief is extremely reliant on his team matching theirs. If theyre getting crushed, the enemy team is useless.

And what if they have a thief? Then you can't really get away and if it's 2v1 or you're just bad at thief like I am you either die or take forever dueling them?

You run away. Thats the first and most important lesson any new thief has to learn, when and how to run away. Because you will be running away

a lot

. If the fight is lost, get out and see if you can find a new one.

lol I just don't see the point.

The point is that you can turn even fights uneven, and upset the balance between 2 teams. Of course, if your team is worse than theirs, there isnt much you can do, but arguably there isnt much you can do on most classes. But its an unusual playstyle, and you have to like it. If you tried playing thief wanting to be an assassin or a duelist, Im afraid youre playing the wrong class.

It didn't used to be that way though! And I've still seen some thieves that seemingly wreck people, including me, either dagger/pistol or sword/dagger and I have no idea how they do so much damage at once. Landing sword 3 ability after evade seems to be the best way to do damage with that build but I feel like it's next to impossible to land. Sword to immobilize seems to be kind of buggy for me. For that build it seems like it's just spamming sword 2 and avoiding as much damage as possible while occasionally landing decent damage.

I mean, exactly like this? No. But thief had been a decap and +1 bot for a long time. A

very

long time. And if theyre "wrecking" people, its usually low-health targets theyre finishing off, or theyre playing a bad build and you just see the rare times where it works, rather than the 90% where the build sucks.

Dagger pistol though I've still seen some do pretty good damage and in unranked against random unrated people I seem to do fine. Even dueling seems to go reasonable, it just feels like I'm spending 5 minutes dueling someone to get them down (if I get them down).

It does really poor damage. Backstabs usually hit for 5k or less nowadays, which is far from impressive. And honestly, no class should ever lose a duel against a D/P thief. D/P thieves damage and sustain is just outclassed by everyone.

I think swipe really killed the build for me and you almost have to run critical strikes/shadow arts/trickery to do decent damage but you lose so much defense.

Swipe sucks, but thats not the biggest reason. The biggest reason is actually that Assassins Signet got a bugfix that was a major nerf, as well as the general lowering of damage but not survivability with the last patch. Still, you can +1 people sometimes.

I'm not saying I want to see a ton of thieves running around one shotting people with backstabs, but the last balance patch definitely made it seem like even more of a handicap for a team than nearly every other profession you could choose from. The only scenario I can think of where it might be somewhat decent is against a slow no mobility comp that's stacking necros and firebrands or bunker weavers. But then you run the risk of them just camping a node all match.

Yeah thieves current situation is less than ideal. The assassin's signet bugfix nerf lowered damage by a lot, and tankiness went up hard, so now even +1ing is often not really all that effective.

Assasin Signet used to give 15% damage increae + the current 560 attack power . It was a bug

Im well aware that it was a bug. But fixing that bug hit thief burst hard. It was a bugfix that was also a nerf.

You can use these second spec linked that was tested by the creator of the thread , where you cc the enemy + burst him in 6 sec .https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/103273/how-should-i-improve-my-burst-combo-on-thief#latest

And if they stunbreak once youre useless. I get that you love your bad thief builds, but damn.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Lighter.5631 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:people always forget about shortbow, when in team fight, apply poison field constantly, that's 33% of enemy sustain gone(u don't even need to do damage) and also apply CC.and that's how your team will out perform your enemy team in terms of dps. and you can go in with dp to finish running low HP enemy often your team will take too much effort to catch

or if your team losing, or the fight is too long, decap.rev outperforms in +1 and brawling, but decap/shut down thief is still king, that's why it's still played in top.

Hate to break it to u all decent thieves kno the sit back in team fight and use poison and clusters, issue is it's not as effective as u make it out to be as most times that scenario ends with the thief outnumbered due to ur teammates still dying and thief is now forced to disengage. That IS the most effective team fight strategy for thief but it's not great. Thief still played at top cuz the players haven't gotten good enough on rev, if nothing changes in time players like sind prob be maining rev wrecking face and few thiefs will be left.

you are literally making no sense,when a class is truely bad, it will not be played at top level at all, no excuses, with 0 presence in the mAT last month in the finals. like some classes.

it's still played in top because people are not good at rev? the problem is with rev, not thief. without rev, thief will still be top, this game doesnt just play with 2 classes.what happens when anet nerf rev, like it's already guaranteed, thief will remain top.what happen to for example war when anet nerf rev? war is still trash, because there's still ranger, ele, fb, holo, necro etc.

meh, i never said any word when warrior are competing at mAT even tho it's 1/2 of the number of thieves, of mesmers. of fb.because i know, it's competing in the finals for a reason.

you've remained best and meta for so long, you failed to see how being second place in top level doesn't make you all the way trash.as long as people competing with thief in top levels, it is meta.

U actually are not making sense. Thief is played still at high level because sb5 allows it to rotate to decap, that is literally thief's only strength now and if conquest didn't operate as it does thief would be a completely dead class. Ur a warrior main forgive me if I value my opinion playing a class 6 yrs vs u who doesn't play the class lol. I love this community where players who don't play a class or don't have much experience on it try and tell mains of the class the state the class is in, its priceless.

i'm used to be war main pre HoT, but i'm plat 2 soloq thief as well, so i know my stuff

You are not making sense tho, you are just having the "what if talk", have you ever heard warrior say what if warrior doesnt have greatsword? or rev without sword? you never. what if conquest didnt operate this way?

but conquest will be forever the competitive pvp mode for gw2 pvp.and that means thief will be forever one of the top picks for top plays, like it has been since 2012, you should be grateful, there isnt a class that comes close to it.

6 years of thief you say?

https://i.imgur.com/9RvT54D.png![](https://i.imgur.com/9RvT54D.png

"")

I've got 5 6yr old maxed toons but I know very little about 2 if em and I can say I'm a plat 3 solo warrior but doesn't make it true

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:people always forget about shortbow, when in team fight, apply poison field constantly, that's 33% of enemy sustain gone(u don't even need to do damage) and also apply CC.and that's how your team will out perform your enemy team in terms of dps. and you can go in with dp to finish running low HP enemy often your team will take too much effort to catch

or if your team losing, or the fight is too long, decap.rev outperforms in +1 and brawling, but decap/shut down thief is still king, that's why it's still played in top.

Hate to break it to u all decent thieves kno the sit back in team fight and use poison and clusters, issue is it's not as effective as u make it out to be as most times that scenario ends with the thief outnumbered due to ur teammates still dying and thief is now forced to disengage. That IS the most effective team fight strategy for thief but it's not great. Thief still played at top cuz the players haven't gotten good enough on rev, if nothing changes in time players like sind prob be maining rev wrecking face and few thiefs will be left.

you are literally making no sense,when a class is truely bad, it will not be played at top level at all, no excuses, with 0 presence in the mAT last month in the finals. like some classes.

it's still played in top because people are not good at rev? the problem is with rev, not thief. without rev, thief will still be top, this game doesnt just play with 2 classes.what happens when anet nerf rev, like it's already guaranteed, thief will remain top.what happen to for example war when anet nerf rev? war is still trash, because there's still ranger, ele, fb, holo, necro etc.

meh, i never said any word when warrior are competing at mAT even tho it's 1/2 of the number of thieves, of mesmers. of fb.because i know, it's competing in the finals for a reason.

you've remained best and meta for so long, you failed to see how being second place in top level doesn't make you all the way trash.as long as people competing with thief in top levels, it is meta.

U actually are not making sense. Thief is played still at high level because sb5 allows it to rotate to decap, that is literally thief's only strength now and if conquest didn't operate as it does thief would be a completely dead class. Ur a warrior main forgive me if I value my opinion playing a class 6 yrs vs u who doesn't play the class lol. I love this community where players who don't play a class or don't have much experience on it try and tell mains of the class the state the class is in, its priceless.

i'm used to be war main pre HoT, but i'm plat 2 soloq thief as well, so i know my stuff

You are not making sense tho, you are just having the "what if talk", have you ever heard warrior say what if warrior doesnt have greatsword? or rev without sword? you never. what if conquest didnt operate this way?

but conquest will be forever the competitive pvp mode for gw2 pvp.and that means thief will be forever one of the top picks for top plays, like it has been since 2012, you should be grateful, there isnt a class that comes close to it.

6 years of thief you say?

https://i.imgur.com/9RvT54D.png![](https://i.imgur.com/9RvT54D.png

"")

I've got 5 6yr old maxed toons but I know very little about 2 if em and I can say I'm a plat 3 solo warrior but doesn't make it true.Stating thief has been meta forever just iterates my point about sb5/mobility always allowing thief to be viable in conquest due to conquests mechanics. What I said made perfect sense if uve played so long don't know how u are unaware that that if thief couldnt decap as it can due to sb5 it would be useless as other classes especially now can +1 better due to being able to burst and down classes wat faster ie ranger lb, rev to name a few. But think as u will matters little to me cuz if u haven't figured that stuff out by now u prob never will.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Lighter.5631 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:people always forget about shortbow, when in team fight, apply poison field constantly, that's 33% of enemy sustain gone(u don't even need to do damage) and also apply CC.and that's how your team will out perform your enemy team in terms of dps. and you can go in with dp to finish running low HP enemy often your team will take too much effort to catch

or if your team losing, or the fight is too long, decap.rev outperforms in +1 and brawling, but decap/shut down thief is still king, that's why it's still played in top.

Hate to break it to u all decent thieves kno the sit back in team fight and use poison and clusters, issue is it's not as effective as u make it out to be as most times that scenario ends with the thief outnumbered due to ur teammates still dying and thief is now forced to disengage. That IS the most effective team fight strategy for thief but it's not great. Thief still played at top cuz the players haven't gotten good enough on rev, if nothing changes in time players like sind prob be maining rev wrecking face and few thiefs will be left.

you are literally making no sense,when a class is truely bad, it will not be played at top level at all, no excuses, with 0 presence in the mAT last month in the finals. like some classes.

it's still played in top because people are not good at rev? the problem is with rev, not thief. without rev, thief will still be top, this game doesnt just play with 2 classes.what happens when anet nerf rev, like it's already guaranteed, thief will remain top.what happen to for example war when anet nerf rev? war is still trash, because there's still ranger, ele, fb, holo, necro etc.

meh, i never said any word when warrior are competing at mAT even tho it's 1/2 of the number of thieves, of mesmers. of fb.because i know, it's competing in the finals for a reason.

you've remained best and meta for so long, you failed to see how being second place in top level doesn't make you all the way trash.as long as people competing with thief in top levels, it is meta.

U actually are not making sense. Thief is played still at high level because sb5 allows it to rotate to decap, that is literally thief's only strength now and if conquest didn't operate as it does thief would be a completely dead class. Ur a warrior main forgive me if I value my opinion playing a class 6 yrs vs u who doesn't play the class lol. I love this community where players who don't play a class or don't have much experience on it try and tell mains of the class the state the class is in, its priceless.

i'm used to be war main pre HoT, but i'm plat 2 soloq thief as well, so i know my stuff

You are not making sense tho, you are just having the "what if talk", have you ever heard warrior say what if warrior doesnt have greatsword? or rev without sword? you never. what if conquest didnt operate this way?

but conquest will be forever the competitive pvp mode for gw2 pvp.and that means thief will be forever one of the top picks for top plays, like it has been since 2012, you should be grateful, there isnt a class that comes close to it.

Well, except for those times where it wasnt. Like most of HoT. And seemingly right now. And no, there are a couple classes that dont just come close, but surpass thief in terms of overall meta relevance. Ele comes to mind here (prior to PoF, ele was always meta, usually as a 2 or even a 3-of in the same team). Thief struggles in bunker metas, as both decapping and +1ing get significantly devalued in those. We are in a bunker meta.

[Taobella.6597]

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PawAgiVlNwEZbsLGJOqLbrVA-zVJYiRHfh0UE0WKURBY7BIgeNUYBD-w

here a basic build the way you play it is you camp in short bow to set up position an then swap to d/d once you find a target then cnd / steal / backstab if there still alive auto attack until reveal gone try to CnD again. if they try to dodge it just weapon stow cancel it restart it .

[DeceiverX.8361]

@"cptaylor.2670" said:So, what is my damage at this point? Skill 3 and just shadow shot, headshot and hope that what I'm interrupting is important? Memorize the skill animations of every class and every ability so I know what to head shot?

Isn't that the entire point of using an interrupt in the first place?

Thief is pretty weak in terms of raw combat right now thanks to the pretty huge nerfs it got with the major "balance" patch, but it's been echoed pretty much since this game's release that you have to know your enemy's mechanics to do well.

The entire premise of the Initiative mechanic is you do not have a rotation. You have to play opportunistically and manage your resources on every front, be it damage or reacting to incoming skills. Sometimes that calls for using the same skill more than once in a row, but in most cases, you're using initiative as a response to both what your enemy is doing and the environment you're in. This is one of the bigger issues with the recent patch's damage cuts, since more skills required to kill someone pushes thief into building more around sustain itself and less about aggression, especially with the massively nerfed burst potential.

I'd add memorizing enemy cooldowns and generally gauging time to the list of things to learn as well, though. Knowing when your opponent can or can't cast things is a pretty big deal as to when those openings occur for you to chip some damage in.

The dynamic of D/P is pretty broken - camping stealth until the enemy player can't possibly know when you're going to hit them or from what angle - but with the kit's utility skills' damage nerfed (SShot/ID) - and rightfully so for those skills in particular - the kit is more difficult to secure wins on than before. AA damage cuts, ASignet being nerfed, and general bunker meta don't favor the kit as a whole when trying to deal damage, either.

Also, condi builds are straight overpowered right now (less applicable to sPvP than WvW - more people in sPvP are just going whatever bunker they can it seems) so most people are maximizing cleanse potential, which includes your blinds, which is why they don't linger.

Ultimately the point is for those who like the mechanics of the initiative system, mobility, and (prior) burst damage. As of now, there's not a lot going for thief in terms of kill pressure though, except to sit in stealth and grind someone down with cheese. For the class itself in terms of sPvP, it's all shortbow. And it almost always has been. IArrow makes it decap very well and very hard to pin down.

[Raider.4283]

Thief doesnt do damage anymore, at all. You can try to plus one, you will be tickling the opponent though. If your are backstab thief you can hope you dont whiff your backstab - is it worth it though when it hits like a wet noodle?

Your job is to strategically pick the largest map possible in PVP simply to outrun your opponents to cap/decap rinse and repeat.

The cost of initiative is too high to "spam" anything useful so you're best off saving it to traverse the map. Ignore anyone saying spam choking gas, you will drop 2 before your initiative is gone.

Pick large maps, outrotate enemy and be pesky. Pick fights wisely cos you arent useful at +1 against decent players.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@"Raider.4283" said:Thief doesnt do damage anymore, at all. You can try to plus one, you will be tickling the opponent though. If your are backstab thief you can hope you dont whiff your backstab - is it worth it though when it hits like a wet noodle?

Your job is to strategically pick the largest map possible in PVP simply to outrun your opponents to cap/decap rinse and repeat.

The cost of initiative is too high to "spam" anything useful so you're best off saving it to traverse the map. Ignore anyone saying spam choking gas, you will drop 2 before your initiative is gone.

Pick large maps, outrotate enemy and be pesky. Pick fights wisely cos you arent useful at +1 against decent players.

Just how it is. Unfortunately some non thief players/forum posters have made a new balance law stating that cuz thief has mobility its burst must suck, cuz thats their opinion so now it's a hard rule anet must follow, makes sense right. At least theres not a lot of other classes with great mobility, burst,high sustained dps,tons of defensive abilities, higher hp, higher armored etc etc lol oh wait....But low and behold thief has high mobility so its burst must suck emiright?

[Raider.4283]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"Raider.4283" said:Thief doesnt do damage anymore, at all. You can try to plus one, you will be tickling the opponent though. If your are backstab thief you can hope you dont whiff your backstab - is it worth it though when it hits like a wet noodle?

Your job is to strategically pick the largest map possible in PVP simply to outrun your opponents to cap/decap rinse and repeat.

The cost of initiative is too high to "spam" anything useful so you're best off saving it to traverse the map. Ignore anyone saying spam choking gas, you will drop 2 before your initiative is gone.

Pick large maps, outrotate enemy and be pesky. Pick fights wisely cos you arent useful at +1 against decent players.

Just how it is. Unfortunately some non thief players/forum posters have made a new balance law stating that cuz thief has mobility its burst must suck, cuz thats their opinion so now it's a hard rule anet must follow, makes sense right. At least theres not a lot of other classes with great mobility, burst,high sustained dps,tons of defensive abilities, higher hp, higher armored etc etc lol oh wait....But low and behold thief has high mobility so its burst must suck emiright?

Thief requires double the effort in combat compared to professions carried by their builds. Stealth and mobility are not the scapegoat here.

Why would a thief not disengage when anything he or she does is meaningless in combat, the most you can hope for is to be a distraction or interrupt a key skill here and there (other professions can do that too).

If the general consensus is thief is OP because of stealth and mobility theres a lack on understanding on what thief can and cannot do. There is a lot the thief can not do vs. what other professions can do taking mobility away whats left?

Stealth is not invincibility.

[Yasai.3549]

@"cptaylor.2670" said:

So basically the point is to just decap and troll people? But if your team is constantly dying and there's someone from the enemy team on each point what are you supposed to do? Just troll and hope you lure in more people?

And what if they have a thief? Then you can't really get away and if it's 2v1 or you're just bad at thief like I am you either die or take forever dueling them?

lol I just don't see the point.

Thief essentially functions as a Macro game sort of investment in a team comp.

While the team is contesting mid, killing the opponent, the Thief's job is to do all the dirty work in the background to harass and slow down the opponent's point gain.

If there is an enemy on each point just to stop yu the Thief from decapping, they have already lost because yu rotate mid where yur team is and +1 them, wiping the opponent at mid for a cap.Yur team can then move to cap the points where those fools are camping alone.

If they have a Thief as well, yu may scuffle with them and force them off the point.As long as it decaps due to them backing off, yu already win.If their Thief is buddying another fool camping on point, it means they have 2 people on a node and 3 people out there asking to get +1d and killed.

Thief doesn't even need to do damage in a +1 : they can be annoying and drop Smokescreen, essentially denying any on point combat for the opponent, spam choking gas, steal boons, interrupt actions, spam SB AA in the middle of a group.

Thief needs to be where the enemy isn't and if they enemy is on node camping it, they +1 where the others are in order to push advantage slowly.In the end the point gap built from decapping opposing nodes will win the match.

[anduriell.6280]

use an actual build for PvP? check on metabattle and experiment a bit, you should have no problems to take down a necro as DE, taking advantage of range and Spotter shot.You don't need shortbow if you can manage stealth uptime and go rifle/ dagger-pistol for malicious backstabs when the necro has used the shroud (10s cd) . In wvw you need to be careful with trailblazers and dire builds thou, you need to soft them up a bit with the rifle before go in.

[Kageseigi.2150]

Wow, this thread has me thinking that we need to resurrect and modify the old Last Refuge trait!

Only now, the Thief will enter Stealth EVERY time it gets hit unless stunned or Revealed.

Well, at least it could be a PvP only trait! :-D

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

@Kageseigi.2150 said:Wow, this thread has me thinking that we need to resurrect and modify the old Last Refuge trait!

Only now, the Thief will enter Stealth EVERY time it gets hit unless stunned or Revealed.

Well, at least it could be a PvP only trait! :-D

If people continue saying thief ought to do no damage because stealth and mobility, we might as well ask for this tbh. Welcome to the sentinel shortbow thief decap meta xD

[pureskullz.7536]

@"cptaylor.2670" said:I've never been good at thief but I've been trying out the dagger/pistol daredevil build and it literally does like 2k at most unless you land a backstab. And landing a backstab with this next to impossible, at least in a 1v1.

On top of that, nearly everything seems to instantly cleanse blinds. I watched some video showing off the build and the seemed to imply that you just do a few autos in pistol 5, cast a heartseeker, and you're good to go. But blinds never last and my autos do like 200 damage. So I mean, what is the point of playing this when I could play on rev and have more sustain and do 5 times as much damage?

I don't understand why thief requires literally perfect play to be efficient or watching every single cast for perfect timing when nearly every other profession has a build that can perform the same role but twice as easy?

The only build I think is total bull is the sword/dagger build because thieves just use it to spam teleport. But even that does little to no damage unless you time your evades just right.

I'm always out of initiative, my abilities never land, my blind never lasts, my damage when it does land is miniscule, I'm somehow always out of range of steal, and stealth doesn't last long enough to get in position to land a backstab.

So, what is my damage at this point? Skill 3 and just shadow shot, headshot and hope that what I'm interrupting is important? Memorize the skill animations of every class and every ability so I know what to head shot? I just don't get why someone would play this for any reason other than shortbow 5, triple dodge, and swiftness.

Thief is designed to be a higher skill cap that's always going to be a thing. However, practicing is essential to do well and as for d/p I personally don't run it but it is viable it just requires a different play style instead of raw damage. Honestly, if you really want damage go glass it's going to be harder but it rewards much more if you can play it correctly. Anyhow try to be patient and give it time I'd recommend you head off the common path and try all of thief's weapons and utilities to understand the class better.

[Bunny.9834]

Play the Cheese Condi P/D + SB Thief.....

[Bast.7253]

@DragonSlayer.1087 said:Play the Cheese Condi P/D + SB Thief.....

That's what I resorted to. :joy:

It's still situational and you have to pick your targets, but you don't have to play perfectly to land any actual damage or feel like you're doing more than tickling someone. Before the only thing I felt comfortable attacking and confident killing was mesmers. Now I can look at a holo, lr dagger/focus ele, or guard and not feel like I'm just going to wind up tickling or suiciding.

[Bast.7253]

@Yasai.3549 said:

@"cptaylor.2670" said:

So basically the point is to just decap and troll people? But if your team is constantly dying and there's someone from the enemy team on each point what are you supposed to do? Just troll and hope you lure in more people?

And what if they have a thief? Then you can't really get away and if it's 2v1 or you're just bad at thief like I am you either die or take forever dueling them?

lol I just don't see the point.

Thief essentially functions as a Macro game sort of investment in a team comp.

While the team is contesting mid, killing the opponent, the Thief's job is to do all the dirty work in the background to harass and slow down the opponent's point gain.

If there is an enemy on each point just to stop yu the Thief from decapping, they have already lost because yu rotate mid where yur team is and +1 them, wiping the opponent at mid for a cap.Yur team can then move to cap the points where those fools are camping alone.

If they have a Thief as well, yu may scuffle with them and force them off the point.As long as it decaps due to them backing off, yu already win.If their Thief is buddying another fool camping on point, it means they have 2 people on a node and 3 people out there asking to get +1d and killed.

Thief doesn't even need to do damage in a +1 : they can be annoying and drop Smokescreen, essentially denying any on point combat for the opponent, spam choking gas, steal boons, interrupt actions, spam SB AA in the middle of a group.

Thief needs to be where the enemy isn't and if they enemy is on node camping it, they +1 where the others are in order to push advantage slowly.In the end the point gap built from decapping opposing nodes will win the match.

I think the primary issue with that is that, while you may be top notch at decapping and minimalizing capture point progress, you're still heavily reliant on your team and if you're goal is to avoid dueling, you're kind of a hindrance. You could play mesmer or rev, have near the same mobility, and have more dueling presence. You're also able to do damage without relying heavily on blind windows and perfect positioning. At least with the dagger/pistol build. I guess that boils down to experience, gauging the other team's comp, and knowing whether or not you're going to gain any real benefit from playing a capture point bot.

Also, is this really the playstyle you want to be forced into as a thief? I tend to favor higher damage thief builds that don't rely solely on blind spam and interrupts though. The "low skill" builds. It's just more enjoyable for me than constantly watching the map or running laps.