Is heart of thorns meant to feel this hard as a new player?

[frareanselm.1925]

I play since the beginning, and I've to say Hot is a lot harder than core unless you run a condi build. The thing is most mordrem mobs hit like a truck, so if you wear a glass cannon it can be frustrating.

[Skiravor.1257]

Honestly, i hear this alot from new players before they quit.

Does not matter, the veterans want it more difficult, they are not interested in new players or growing the game.

Its why this game does not have numbers like other mmos. Anet is stuck and they do not know how to grow their ip beyond a low pop niche game.

It is fun once geared up with all the mounts though lol

[Ashantara.8731]

@GummyBearSummoner.7941 said:If anything it’s not even close to being as difficult as it used to be.

It's still a big leap I'd say.

@DisabledVelociraptor.7865 said:The leap in difficulty from the personal story to heart of thorns is insane... forgive me for complaining here but this is kitten near unenjoyable..

At first, yes. After a while, it will help you train your player skills and getting a lot better, which will prepare you for other endgame content. :)

[Jimbru.6014]

@"DisabledVelociraptor.7865" said:The leap in difficulty from the personal story to heart of thorns is insane... forgive me for complaining here but this is kitten near unenjoyable.. I wish there was some kind of difficulty setting for instances because I just want to experience the story without feeling like i'm being completely crushed by everything

Yes, it was meant to be that hard.

Back in the day, a vocal minority (which should never be mistaken for a majority in any context) of players complained loudly that the core game was too easy. In response, ANet said, "Be careful what you wish for," and gave us HoT. Which to this day is still not only the hardest content in GW2, but also still considered one of the hardest chapters in any MMO EVER. Difficult geography, champion hero points, pocket raptors, Mordrem "trash" based on PVP builds to make them super lethal, the list goes on. Which is why I continue to say that #1 ANet needs to stop listening to the vocal minorities, and #2 people should NEVER complain about anything being too easy. Be careful what you wish for in GW2; ANet WILL give it to you.

Oh, and if that's not scary enough: HoT now is the NERFED version. HoT used to be even harder, and the insane difficulty drove a LOT of people away from the game. In retrospect, it's a testament to the core strengths of GW2 as a game that it survived the major missteps of LS1, LS2 and HoT; most other games would not have done so.

[Kastagir.2146]

@DisabledVelociraptor.7865 said:The leap in difficulty from the personal story to heart of thorns is insane... forgive me for complaining here but this is kitten near unenjoyable.. I wish there was some kind of difficulty setting for instances because I just want to experience the story without feeling like i'm being completely crushed by everything

I agree with you. A new player going from level 1 to 80 is in for a shock. And I know the reason why they did this. It was to please their veteran players that complained content was to easy. Heck, you even have them asking to make it even harder still. I got the game at launch and I don't even bother with the expansion content much anymore even though I own both of them. I just can't be bothered because they suck the fun right out of the game for me. If a game needed a difficulty slider it's this one.

[Naxos.2503]

Arguably, I still go to Heart of Thorn areas when I want some challenge on a large scale. In core tyria, enemies are very linear, and generally not particularly tough, so if you have a hard hitting build, they dont last very long, and dont fight back efficiently. In Path of Fire, enemies are Tougher, but not particularly smarter, their attack hit hard, but they're still rather linear, with the exception of Some of them (Djinns come to mind). Heart of Thorns however, enemies are a lot more diverse, and you have to think more than press buttons. Timing and position become more important than straight up damage for some of them (the afforemented Evade-evade-stab-in-the-face-frog in particular). Contrary to all other maps, I use the high ground, and fight with my back to a wall more often in Heart of Thorns. I also use CC and speed there more often than the other two areas. I always liked that best about it, it felt properly oppressive and Dangerous.

[T G.7496]

HoT is still, by far I think, the best content Anet designed (not including the lamest boss fight conceivable).

HoT was where I first started learning how to play this game properly. It killed me over and over again, and it taught me that I was lazy, and that I didn't really understand what my skills did or how my build worked.

It was a watershed moment in my relationship with this game.

I hated it, and I loved it.

My first foray into Tangled Depths was terrifying. It is a fiendish, brilliant map. Anet have never managed to recreate that sense of exploration or jeopardy, but doing so just once was an achievement.

Stick with it, and follow some of the good advice in this thread. HoT remains some of the best content in the game.

[Evil.1580]

And this is why HoT maps are constantly full compared to PoF.Challenging content (map-wide events) is just better and healthier for the game and the player base.I started crafting Chuka short bow and had to do some meta events in HoT maps (I am more PvP oriented). The maps are literally full compared to PoF and core. I believe this is the goal - even after so many years and after a more recent expansion, people still prefer HoT content.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@TwoGhosts.6790 said:HoT is still, by far I think, the best content Anet designed (not including the lamest boss fight conceivable).

HoT was where I first started learning how to play this game properly. It killed me over and over again, and it taught me that I was lazy, and that I didn't really understand what my skills did or how my build worked.

It was a watershed moment in my relationship with this game.

I hated it, and I loved it.

My first foray into Tangled Depths was terrifying. It is a fiendish, brilliant map. Anet have never managed to recreate that sense of exploration or jeopardy, but doing so just once was an achievement.

Stick with it, and follow some of the good advice in this thread. HoT remains some of the best content in the game.

^This. I feel exactly the same way.

I know not everyone agrees, but HoT really does have the most incredible maps and engaging open world combat I've ever seen in an MMO. This place murdered me left and right as a new player and I was completely lost, but all I wanted to do was learn everything! Now I know Tangled Depths like the back of my hand. I can solo every champion and wade through armies of chak, hylek, mordrem, mushrooms, and saurians like it's nothing! Learning how to deal with the enemies and how to adapt my build to the environment was as much a pleasure as exploring and learning my way around the jungle. It was just a really great experience that I've never seen the like of in open world PvE.

I didn't start playing GW2 until a little after HoT released, but I don't think I would have stuck around if I had played only the core game. HoT is what sold it for me.

[battledrone.8315]

@"bOTEB.1573" said:And this is why HoT maps are constantly full compared to PoF.Challenging content (map-wide events) is just better and healthier for the game and the player base.I started crafting Chuka short bow and had to do some meta events in HoT maps (I am more PvP oriented). The maps are literally full compared to PoF and core. I believe this is the goal - even after so many years and after a more recent expansion, people still prefer HoT content.

nope, remove the insane rewards, and it would be a ghost town in a week. you can get 100s of max level gear pieces in one go.no other games have this . and one of the most important skills, gliding, can ONLY be trained there.AFAIR, they started nerfing it within the first week.

[battledrone.8315]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@TwoGhosts.6790 said:HoT is still, by far I think, the best content Anet designed (not including the lamest boss fight conceivable).

HoT was where I first started learning how to play this game properly. It killed me over and over again, and it taught me that I was lazy, and that I didn't really understand what my skills did or how my build worked.

It was a watershed moment in my relationship with this game.

I hated it, and I loved it.

My first foray into Tangled Depths was terrifying. It is a fiendish, brilliant map. Anet have never managed to recreate that sense of exploration or jeopardy, but doing so just once was an achievement.

Stick with it, and follow some of the good advice in this thread. HoT remains some of the best content in the game.

^This. I feel exactly the same way.

I know not everyone agrees, but HoT really does have the most incredible maps and engaging open world combat I've ever seen in an MMO. This place murdered me left and right as a new player and I was completely lost, but all I wanted to do was learn everything! Now I know Tangled Depths like the back of my hand. I can solo every champion and wade through armies of chak, hylek, mordrem, mushrooms, and saurians like it's nothing! Learning how to deal with the enemies and how to adapt my build to the environment was as much a pleasure as exploring and learning my way around the jungle. It was just a really great experience that I've never seen the like of in open world PvE.

I didn't start playing GW2 until a little after HoT released, but I don't think I would have stuck around if I had played only the core game. HoT is what sold it for me.

so, its the expansion for people, who dont like the game in the first place....IE TWO DIFFERENT GAMESthere is your problem.

[battledrone.8315]

@TwoGhosts.6790 said:HoT is still, by far I think, the best content Anet designed (not including the lamest boss fight conceivable).

HoT was where I first started learning how to play this game properly. It killed me over and over again, and it taught me that I was lazy, and that I didn't really understand what my skills did or how my build worked.

It was a watershed moment in my relationship with this game.

I hated it, and I loved it.

My first foray into Tangled Depths was terrifying. It is a fiendish, brilliant map. Anet have never managed to recreate that sense of exploration or jeopardy, but doing so just once was an achievement.

Stick with it, and follow some of the good advice in this thread. HoT remains some of the best content in the game.

and that is why wow copied it, and not the core game..oh wait,,,,they didnt.it was so good, that they immediately started making more...nope, that didnt happen either

[battledrone.8315]

@Jimbru.6014 said:

@"DisabledVelociraptor.7865" said:The leap in difficulty from the personal story to heart of thorns is insane... forgive me for complaining here but this is kitten near unenjoyable.. I wish there was some kind of difficulty setting for instances because I just want to experience the story without feeling like i'm being completely crushed by everything

Yes, it was meant to be that hard.

Back in the day, a vocal minority (which should never be mistaken for a majority in any context) of players complained loudly that the core game was too easy. In response, ANet said, "Be careful what you wish for," and gave us HoT. Which to this day is still not only the hardest content in GW2, but also still considered one of the hardest chapters in any MMO EVER. Difficult geography, champion hero points, pocket raptors, Mordrem "trash" based on PVP builds to make them super lethal, the list goes on. Which is why I continue to say that #1 ANet needs to stop listening to the vocal minorities, and #2 people should NEVER complain about anything being too easy. Be careful what you wish for in GW2; ANet WILL give it to you.

Oh, and if that's not scary enough: HoT now is the NERFED version. HoT used to be even harder, and the insane difficulty drove a LOT of people away from the game. In retrospect, it's a testament to the core strengths of GW2 as a game that it survived the major missteps of LS1, LS2 and HoT; most other games would not have done so.

yep, many guilds just ceased to exist after hot launch. people were leaving in droves, but the hardcores didnt care, they got what THEY wanted.of course anet panicked, and started the nerf hammer. it shouldnt have passed testing in the first place.

[T G.7496]

@battledrone.8315 said:

@TwoGhosts.6790 said:HoT is still, by far I think, the best content Anet designed (not including the lamest boss fight conceivable).

HoT was where I first started learning how to play this game properly. It killed me over and over again, and it taught me that I was lazy, and that I didn't really understand what my skills did or how my build worked.

It was a watershed moment in my relationship with this game.

I hated it, and I loved it.

My first foray into Tangled Depths was terrifying. It is a fiendish, brilliant map. Anet have never managed to recreate that sense of exploration or jeopardy, but doing so just once was an achievement.

Stick with it, and follow some of the good advice in this thread. HoT remains some of the best content in the game.

and that is why wow copied it, and not the core game..oh wait,,,,they didnt.it was so good, that they immediately started making more...nope, that didnt happen either

What's your point?You don't like it?So what? I don't care.Everything I said stands.

[FitzChevalerie.1035]

Always see people talking about raptors but honestly, never had a problem with them. they are 1-2 hit mobs. What's the deal ?

[battledrone.8315]

@TwoGhosts.6790 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@TwoGhosts.6790 said:HoT is still, by far I think, the best content Anet designed (not including the lamest boss fight conceivable).

HoT was where I first started learning how to play this game properly. It killed me over and over again, and it taught me that I was lazy, and that I didn't really understand what my skills did or how my build worked.

It was a watershed moment in my relationship with this game.

I hated it, and I loved it.

My first foray into Tangled Depths was terrifying. It is a fiendish, brilliant map. Anet have never managed to recreate that sense of exploration or jeopardy, but doing so just once was an achievement.

Stick with it, and follow some of the good advice in this thread. HoT remains some of the best content in the game.

and that is why wow copied it, and not the core game..oh wait,,,,they didnt.it was so good, that they immediately started making more...nope, that didnt happen either

What's your point?You don't like it?So what? I don't care.Everything I said stands.

you may like it, but the numbers actually makes it the WORST content in the game.many games wouldnt had survived this, and a proper expansion would prolly had put GW2 in the top 3 mmos for many yearsinstead, they went total niche. i have never seen such a good game with such poor leadership.

[battledrone.8315]

@FitzChevalerie.1035 said:Always see people talking about raptors but honestly, never had a problem with them. they are 1-2 hit mobs. What's the deal ?

they are just there to slow you down...that is the problem. they would make more sense in a subscription game.i dont even think they drop any loot. it is called content stretching

[Sir Alric.5078]

I remember walking carelessly into Verdant Brink on day one with my full berserker staff elementalist and being absolutely slaughtered by everything that moved. Hahahaha.Any delusion i had about being a somewhat decent player at the time was shattered mercilessly in mere minutes. It was so frustrating that i had to take a three days pause from the game to cool off. The thing is, i never once blamed the game for being too difficult. I was simply shocked to realize just how much i sucked at it.Then i came back, changed my build, started to learn the mobs and their mechanics, and then eventually i got used to fighting in the jungle and was able to appreciate the work Anet had done with Heart of Thorns.

So the moral of the story is: don't give up at the first hurdle. Persevere. Learn. Get better. I believe you will like it too with time.

[Dayra.7405]

I think you missed one important difference between GW2 and other MMO.Most MMO's your progress is limited by item and level grinding and this enforces you to spend plenty of time to train how you play your char.GW2 has no such obvious progress-limitation, after 2-3 weeks from start you easily have max lvl and full exo and could in principle go everywhere, but you still not have much experience in "How to play your char".

Veteran players from day 1 had 3 years of practise before HoT appeared. Still several found it to hard.So practise on how to play your char. Do you know what field-finisher combos are and which you can do on your own? Do you know how you generate bufs for your char, just to name two things, there are many more to learn.

HoT adds another difficulty that didn't exist before: The mastery progress, that's in fact an really ugly one.You simply cannot complete Verdant Brink before you progressed to gliding-5 (Advanced Gliding) (or you have griffon or skyscale) and you cannot reach gliding-5 doing just Verdant Brink.

Peole telling you HoT is fine, forgot about the pain of this mastery progress, they already progressed and yes. with HoT+PoF Masteries completed HoT is much easier to play.

So my tips:

1. do the easy things on all 4 maps first, do not try to complete anything before you have: gliding-max, poison resistance, (Itzel-4) , stealth detection (nuhoch-4) Also griffon or skyscale make HoT a lot easier.
2. get ls3 and get HoT-Mastery points there :)
3. Try to get ascended trinkets and weapons before you go to HoT, makes things a lot easier as well. (I had all 8 classes in full ascended when HoT appeared and a complete 9th set in the bank for my HoT-Revenannt from day 1 on.)
4. Meta-battle builds aren't the best for solo-open world, they lack defense, and rely on group-synergies, which you haven't solo.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@GummyBearSummoner.7941 said:If anything it’s not even close to being as difficult as it used to be.

It's still a big leap I'd say.

@DisabledVelociraptor.7865 said:The leap in difficulty from the personal story to heart of thorns is insane... forgive me for complaining here but this is kitten near unenjoyable..

At first, yes. After a while, it will help you train your player skills and getting

a lot

better, which will prepare you for other endgame content. :)Most of the new players never reach that point. They simply quit.Just saying.

@"bOTEB.1573" said:And this is why HoT maps are constantly full compared to PoF.Challenging content (map-wide events) is just better and healthier for the game and the player base.It's not the challenge. It's the rewards. PoF lacks the draw the HoT metas have.Notice by the way, that the few PoF metas that do exist, are either completely unrewarding, harder on average than HoT ones, or both.

[Algreg.3629]

It is a lot harder, if you only knew core Tyria, probably even a little shockingly though. But you will get the hang of it quickly if you are a gamer. More problematic than the actual difficulty is now the grand design of things: PoF made HoT a lot more enjoyable, if you experience the latter with mounts, you can never go back. But in theory, PoF is "meant to be played" after.

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

there are two things that made HoT a lot easier for me:

Condi GearVitality

[Kulvar.1239]

HoT was the first time there was any difficulty in open world.Before, every monster could be defeated by just AFK auto.So yeah, it's intended. Maps have map wide meta events, people were asking for OW PvE to go beyond berzerk autos.Once you learn to counter them, you'll shred through them easily.

@"bOTEB.1573" said:And this is why HoT maps are constantly full compared to PoF.Challenging content (map-wide events) is just better and healthier for the game and the player base.I started crafting Chuka short bow and had to do some meta events in HoT maps (I am more PvP oriented). The maps are literally full compared to PoF and core. I believe this is the goal - even after so many years and after a more recent expansion, people still prefer HoT content.

Exaclty ! HoT is a lot of fun and I have a lot more memories of HoT meta events than I remember PoF.While PoF maps in my mind can be summed in 3 words "sand, fire, corpse" as it barely has any impact.To me, PoF is just that place where you unlock mounts and farm easy hero points.

[Sorem.9157]

When you're plat 3 pvper but cant 1v1 a bristleback

Feels

[Ashantara.8731]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@DisabledVelociraptor.7865 said:The leap in difficulty from the personal story to heart of thorns is insane... forgive me for complaining here but this is kitten near unenjoyable..

At first, yes. After a while, it will help you train your player skills and getting

a lot

better, which will prepare you for other endgame content. :)Most of the new players never reach that point. They simply quit.

I know, that's why I was trying to encourage them. ;)