Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Time to bring down the Nerf hammer on guardian


Tyse the Black.6789

Recommended Posts

Guardian (core, dragonhunter and firebrand) has been meta defining for too long. Most automated tournament teams have 2-3 guardians and guardian is why the super boring WvW pirateship meta works so well. Too much aegis spam (sometimes without having a to even press anything) is a common theme in all 3 iterations and too much block chain when considered alongside the highly mobile burst potential (of both power and Condi). The arguments for guardian being so OP for a long time have been so that it checks a bunch of different builds, most of which have now been culled. It's guardians turn

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 99
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

As a side note about Guardians dominating in WvW the main reason is because of the Guardian's ability to provide dependable group Stability, everybody is aware of it and it has been brought up in this forum that group Stability shouldn't be solely a Guardian thing for quite awhile and they just removed the ability of the Shout "Stand Your Ground" from effecting 10 allies in WvW which was the only boon sharing effect that Guardian's had that did effect 10 allies where as the Rev/Herald, the Ele/Tempest and the Core Warrior still can have a very strong level of boon sharing on as many as 10 allies. I fail to see you arguing about them so it's going lead me to believe your argument more based on personal bias than a real issue with the class .Before you bring it up yes the FB does supply group Quickness but they are in no way the sole available source for it (honestly it can be argued that they aren't the best but that's another discussion)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"RUNICBLACK.7630" said:I fail to see you arguing about them so it's going lead me to believe your argument more based on personal bias than a real issue with the class."

This is a bad assumption. This is the guardian forum why would I call for nerfs to other professions here? I agree that the other professions you list- and while we're at it, ranger, also need to be clawed back. The issues, like I said are a lot more than just boonshare. Invuln/block chains, getting aegis without having to do anything with no trade-off on their burst potential in some cases.

To pick on your point about things that have 10 boonshare... I don't mind 10-man boonshare in theory as long as it isn't excessive and involves tradeoffs to take it. No one should have 10 man stab, aegis, resistance and other boons like protection, might and fury that apply to 10 should be shorter unless people really invest in boon duration. People run in comms in WvW most of the time anyways- call when you're giving boons so your team can time their burst but if they're slow or blew their CDs then RIP their burst window.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Stand You Ground is powerful indeed, but Tomes are more of the problem. They are too powerful and need BIG nerfs. Justice Passive is very strong, particularly in a game mode were people ball up nice and tight for you in order to avoid some AoE. Permeating Wrath + Sword of Justice and a symbol or two nukes a zerg. It nukes siege. I had to step away from my Burn DH. It was so strong that it was too boring to play, ZERO skill involved.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:Stand You Ground is powerful indeed, but Tomes are more of the problem. They are too powerful and need BIG nerfs. Justice Passive is very strong, particularly in a game mode were people ball up nice and tight for you in order to avoid some AoE. Permeating Wrath + Sword of Justice and a symbol or two nukes a zerg. It nukes siege. I had to step away from my Burn DH. It was so strong that it was too boring to play, ZERO skill involved.

The burn issue your complaining about doesn’t really have to do with Tomes though. Burn oriented FBs are fairly balanced. Also, it’s mostly just Core.

To OP, if you haven’t noticed yet, most of the past few updates have nerfed Guardians quite a bit, especially FBs.

However, I do agree there should be something done about Stability on Courage Tome 1. I know Skill 1 had been nerfed in duration already, but I still feel like it should be removed altogether and replaced with bleed. This gives the FB an alternate condition source instead of just burn, yet nerfs the stab spam that many people feel is a problem.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:Stand You Ground is powerful indeed, but Tomes are more of the problem. They are too powerful and need BIG nerfs. Justice Passive is very strong, particularly in a game mode were people ball up nice and tight for you in order to avoid some AoE. Permeating Wrath + Sword of Justice and a symbol or two nukes a zerg. It nukes siege. I had to step away from my Burn DH. It was so strong that it was too boring to play, ZERO skill involved.

The burn issue your complaining about doesn’t really have to do with Tomes though. Burn oriented FBs are fairly balanced. Also, it’s mostly just Core.

To OP, if you haven’t noticed yet, most of the past few updates have nerfed Guardians quite a bit, especially FBs.

However, I do agree there should be something done about Stability on Courage Tome 1. I know Skill 1 had been nerfed in duration already, but I still feel like it should be removed altogether and replaced with bleed. This gives the FB an alternate condition source instead of just burn, yet nerfs the stab spam that many people feel is a problem.

They were separate pieces of commentary, my bad if that wasn't clear.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Edit: Since the usual trolls have come out. Let me explain in detail what I want. I mostly play endgame PVE (Raids/Strikes/Fractals).

The DPS spread is bigger than ever. It keeps getting bigger each patch. The ideal meta shakeup would be balance. That being said, nerfing the tier 1 specs (which have been on top for years now), and buffing professions on the bottom would be a good start. True balance would be a meta shakeup. I would like to play something different that is competitive for a change. I would like variety.

Original Message:

We need a meta shakeup to make this game fun again! I fully support this. I am sick of feeling the need to play Guardian in group content because of the advantage it brings over everything else.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Josiah.2967 said:We need a meta shakeup to make this game fun again! I fully support this. I am sick of feeling the need to play Guardian in group content because of the advantage it brings over everything else.

A shake up for the sake of a shake up is a terrible idea.I don't want balance patch WoW-like where things are made better or worse just to shift things around.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Edit: Since the usual trolls have come out. Let me explain in detail what I want. I mostly play endgame PVE (Raids/Strikes/Fractals).

The DPS spread is bigger than ever. It keeps getting bigger each patch. The ideal meta shakeup would be balance. That being said, nerfing the tier 1 specs (which have been on top for years now), and buffing professions on the bottom would be a good start. True balance would be a meta shakeup. I would like to play something different that is competitive for a change. I would like variety.

I want the TOP DPS nerfed.

@Kulvar.1239 said:

@Josiah.2967 said:We need a meta shakeup to make this game fun again! I fully support this. I am sick of feeling the need to play Guardian in group content because of the advantage it brings over everything else.

A shake up for the sake of a shake up is a terrible idea.I don't want balance patch WoW-like where things are made better or worse just to shift things around.

We really need it. It will bring life back to this game. Keeping the same professions Tier 1 just for consistency is not my idea of fun.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"frareanselm.1925" said:Burn guardian deal more damage than a pyromancer. Burn guardian with the flamethrower kit does more damage than a engi-flamethrower. This needs to stop!

Ok I'll bite can you honestly show me builds on the gw2skills.net where this is true , I'd like to see this myself , I could be wrong but to me it feels like your biased on this . Just to keep it simple wipe out the gear or if you feel that doesn't do it justice please be honest on the builds (another words no insane glass cannon build compared to a build with a solid sustain and claiming they are the same please, if one sacrifices sustain for damage all of them should etc..) I'm willing to listen but without something verifiable it just sounds like a "I hate guardian rant".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Josiah.2967" said:We need a meta shakeup to make this game fun again! I fully support this. I am sick of feeling the need to play Guardian in group content because of the advantage it brings over everything else.

If your talking about Raids or Fractals I get where your coming from , that was the same complaint that was voiced by the Mesmer/Chrono community when Alacrity was only available from the Chrono and you know what happened they made available to the Rev/Renegade and everyone in the Mesmer community blew their stack go figure.While I'm for thoughtful play balance(which could be argued that they have had mixed success on that but that"s an argument for another time) change just for changes sake is pretty much utterly detrimental to the game as a whole. If your talking about any other part the game the "GROUP" play such as Fractals, or Strike Missions isn't that closed off or exclusive enough to warrant that kind of change, don't like the group restriction in LFG for the Fractal or Strike mission POST your own and I'm sure people will join because they are annoyed with the "You have Run THIS THIS WAY OR YOUR OUT" attitude as much as you are. Really its not that big a deal I've done it quite often myself for that very reason. Heck had a team whine about my DPS because the team kept wiping (over 4 times and I was rezzing the majority the team) so they kicked me joined another team without the attitude and finished on the first attempt without a single down , go figure. I play for my enjoyment not to support someone else's ego

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Josiah.2967 said:

@Josiah.2967 said:We need a meta shakeup to make this game fun again! I fully support this. I am sick of feeling the need to play Guardian in group content because of the advantage it brings over everything else.

A shake up for the sake of a shake up is a terrible idea.I don't want balance patch WoW-like where things are made better or worse just to shift things around.

We really need it. I till bring life to this game. Keeping the same professions Tier 1 just for consistency is terrible.

Based on what you say, you would be perfectly happy if ANet added that on each weekly reset, 2 classes are randomly picked to receives a 1 week long PvP buff that give them +50% Damage -20% Incoming Damage. So each week, Tiers 1 class would be "shaken up".

The delay at which the chosen classes are picked and the effect of the buff may vary, but on the principle, would you be satisfied by that ?That's basically what you advocates for, without messing with PvE and WvW balance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Kulvar.1239 said:

@Josiah.2967 said:We need a meta shakeup to make this game fun again! I fully support this. I am sick of feeling the need to play Guardian in group content because of the advantage it brings over everything else.

A shake up for the sake of a shake up is a terrible idea.I don't want balance patch WoW-like where things are made better or worse just to shift things around.

We really need it. I till bring life to this game. Keeping the same professions Tier 1 just for consistency is terrible.

Based on what you say, you would be perfectly happy if ANet added that on each weekly reset, 2 classes are randomly picked to receives a 1 week long PvP buff that give them +50% Damage -20% Incoming Damage. So each week, Tiers 1 class would be "shaken up".

The delay at which the chosen classes are picked and the effect of the buff may vary, but on the principle, would you be satisfied by that ?That's basically what you advocates for, without messing with PvE and WvW balance.

Slow clap. I have be trolled.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@frareanselm.1925 said:Burn guardian deal more damage than a pyromancer. Burn guardian with the flamethrower kit does more damage than a engi-flamethrower. This needs to stop!

Guardian is a burn specialist; burns were until FB their only relevant condition in terms of damage (and still the bleeds in the FB can't compete with their burns), whereas both Eles and Engies can apply aditional condition damage from bleeds, poison... And FB works more like a hybrid class in terms of damage, even in PvE.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Josiah.2967 said:

@Josiah.2967 said:We need a meta shakeup to make this game fun again! I fully support this. I am sick of feeling the need to play Guardian in group content because of the advantage it brings over everything else.

A shake up for the sake of a shake up is a terrible idea.I don't want balance patch WoW-like where things are made better or worse just to shift things around.

We really need it. I till bring life to this game. Keeping the same professions Tier 1 just for consistency is terrible.

That does not 'bring life' to a game. Here is what I don't get ... you have chosen to play optimal builds yet you are indicating that Anet should shake up the meta so it forces you to play different optimal builds ... but you can already do that EVEN IF you continue to play only optimal builds ... so what are you and others really after here? Anet doesn't need to change the game to enable you to choose to play other optimal builds from other classes.

Honestly, I don't think you people know what you want until you just randomly stumble on it. That's all on you, not Anet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Stand The Wall.6987" said:ye bringing all classes into the same dps range for pve is bad and hard to do, change is evil never do it cuz I want to remain more op then everyone else

That is not what Obtena or anyone else is saying with regard to counter the argument , all that they are saying is change just for changes is sake is not only utterly pointless but is also counterproductive if not more damaging to the game as a whole and that would include all of the game modes. They don't disagree with the idea of considered and measured change and balance but what the earlier individual and some of the others have subscribed to is just "Shake It UP" where is there any sense of considered and measured change in that way of thinking, just because the changes that have happened are not to your liking in anyway means they lack value it just means YOU don't value them . I am honestly not totally onboard with every change but does that mean that I think everything they have done in this past very large balance patch was bad , no it doesn't not even remotely that and honestly I wouldn't expect it to be fully to my liking because I wasn't the one crafting this change but all that being said I'm willing to continue to wait see how these further changes play out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"RUNICBLACK.7630" said:all that they are saying is change just for changes is sake is not only utterly pointless but is also counterproductive

people seem to use this sentiment to dismiss the argument for classes being closer together dps wise. obviously its a dumb thing to say "change for sake of change", but when you have close to equal representation of classes then more people will be happy which means more people will be playing. not to say some classes shouldn't be stronger then others, everyone should have their strengths. its also worthwhile to point out that if people see that things are fair it makes them less likely to ask for change.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@RUNICBLACK.7630 said:all that they are saying is change just for changes is sake is not only utterly pointless but is also counterproductive

people seem to use this sentiment to dismiss the argument for classes being closer together dps wise.

Well, let's start here ... I'm certainly not ... the argument against closer DPS is that the game and its content is designed to accommodate those wide DPS ranges to begin with, so the need for closer DPS doesn't exist if you play the game with that understanding.

If you actually want to take us down the 'things need to be fair between classes' path, then you have to be more honest in recognizing that the sum of all the 'things' a class will have to make those comparisons isn't something that can be measured to make a sound and logical argument in the first place.

But let's be REAL honest ... that's not what the OP is asking for. He want's change, just for changes sake because there is some fallacy that mixing it all up again is actually APPEALING to established and new players ... does that actually make sense to anyone here?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...