Pierce Trait

[Dzheen.5291]

The bullets should ricochet in narrow horizontal angle and wide vertical angle on line of fire. This will fix problem with firing to the sky if target taller than you and keep importance of positioning yourself in battle.

[Tails.9372]

@Mayberry.2169 said:

@Tails.9372 said:I seriously don't understand why they're so adamant about not giving us the ricochet trait back.

My best guess is that it would make rifle 2 in pvp too strong as you could have way to much cleave along with single target.But deadly aim doesn't affect rifle and pistol range is so limited that one could even argue that having a trait which punishes your enemy for bad positioning is actually a good thing.

[Doggie.3184]

Just poppin in after taking a break for a few months or so. I'm disappointed this "thanks for nothing" self nerf trait hasn't been adjusted yet.Man, Ricochet was so nice, I really miss it.

[Tails.9372]

TBH at this point I don't even care that much about getting ricochet back anymore. But I don't think that piercing (especially given the fact that it comes with a build in damage nerf) is befitting for a "weapon restricted" trait. IMO they should make Deadly Aim a general trait for ranged attacks and make Signets of Power the pistol / harpoon gun related one while also changing the activation condition from "when you kill a foe" to "upon landing a critical hit". At least that way there would finally be some synergy between the weapon the specialisation and the skills.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

Add 1sec of Quickness per target hit to the trait, then P/P will maybe be viable again. Rifle and P/P Deadeyes are a beautiful aesthetic but it just doesn't work under real-world conditions because the damage isn't worth the Initiative.

[Tails.9372]

@Hannelore.8153 said:Add 1sec of Quickness per target hit to the trait, then P/P will maybe be viable again.Issue here is that P/P can already get quickness from other players in group content meaning it wouldn't do anything for you except if you're playing OW but there you already have BQoBK which is usually enough to burst down the average trash mob.

@Hannelore.8153 said:Rifle and P/P Deadeyes are a beautiful aesthetic but it just doesn't work under real-world conditions because the damage isn't worth the Initiative.That's why I suggested to make the changes above. It wouldn't really do much for PvE (except for a huge QoL boost) but it should make P/P a decent option for sPvP / WvW. I think the change that would help P/P for PvE the most would be to remove the might gain from unload and to buff the damage of all weapon skills by ~30%.

[babazhook.6805]

@Tails.9372 said:

@Hannelore.8153 said:Add 1sec of Quickness per target hit to the trait, then P/P will maybe be viable again.Issue here is that P/P can already get quickness from other players in group content meaning it wouldn't do anything for you except if you're playing OW but there you already have BQoBK which is usually enough to burst down the average trash mob.

@Hannelore.8153 said:Rifle and P/P Deadeyes are a beautiful aesthetic but it just doesn't work under real-world conditions because the damage isn't worth the Initiative.That's why I suggested to make the changes above. It wouldn't really do much for PvE (except for a huge QoL boost) but it should make P/P a decent option for sPvP / WvW. I think the change that would help P/P for PvE the most would be to remove the might gain from unload and to buff the damage of all weapon skills by ~30%.

When they started raising Initiative costs across the board as part of the balancing I suggested it a VERY bad idea. It is not akin to increased cooldowns as those increased cooldowns do not affect all other skills. Thus when INI goes up the given skill either becomes unusable because it just not worth using that INI if all other skills no longer usable , or that one skill becomes the only one used while others shut down.

If anything if they were worried about the damage out and wanted to cut it back they should have just lowered damage factors and LOWERED Ini costs.

[kash.9213]

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Tails.9372 said:

@Hannelore.8153 said:Add 1sec of Quickness per target hit to the trait, then P/P will maybe be viable again.Issue here is that P/P can already get quickness from other players in group content meaning it wouldn't do anything for you except if you're playing OW but there you already have BQoBK which is usually enough to burst down the average trash mob.

@Hannelore.8153 said:Rifle and P/P Deadeyes are a beautiful aesthetic but it just doesn't work under real-world conditions because the damage isn't worth the Initiative.That's why I suggested to make the changes above. It wouldn't really do much for PvE (except for a huge QoL boost) but it should make P/P a decent option for sPvP / WvW. I think the change that would help P/P for PvE the most would be to remove the might gain from unload and to buff the damage of all weapon skills by ~30%.

When they started raising Initiative costs across the board as part of the balancing I suggested it a VERY bad idea. It is not akin to increased cooldowns as those increased cooldowns do not affect all other skills. Thus when INI goes up the given skill either becomes unusable because it just not worth using that INI if all other skills no longer usable , or that one skill becomes the only one used while others shut down.

If anything if they were worried about the damage out and wanted to cut it back they should have just lowered damage factors and LOWERED Ini costs

.

Some builds are so much fun when allowed to use everything. They could even just adjust Ini costs enough to not have to conserve for one or two important skills, I'd definitely be able to pierce more often to get a more decisive and scaled up or down use out of my secondary mods from well timed interrupts and other sources. That wouldn't even turn us into bunker or sustain thieves given how oriented and deliberate pierce is. Right now I just don't make any good use out of piercing shots, it's exclusively single target but by regulation instead of choice given the times I save it for.

[Tails.9372]

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Tails.9372 said:

@Hannelore.8153 said:Add 1sec of Quickness per target hit to the trait, then P/P will maybe be viable again.Issue here is that P/P can already get quickness from other players in group content meaning it wouldn't do anything for you except if you're playing OW but there you already have BQoBK which is usually enough to burst down the average trash mob.

@Hannelore.8153 said:Rifle and P/P Deadeyes are a beautiful aesthetic but it just doesn't work under real-world conditions because the damage isn't worth the Initiative.That's why I suggested to make the changes above. It wouldn't really do much for PvE (except for a huge QoL boost) but it should make P/P a decent option for sPvP / WvW. I think the change that would help P/P for PvE the most would be to remove the might gain from unload and to buff the damage of all weapon skills by ~30%.

When they started raising Initiative costs across the board as part of the balancing I suggested it a VERY bad idea. It is not akin to increased cooldowns as those increased cooldowns do not affect all other skills. Thus when INI goes up the given skill either becomes unusable because it just not worth using that INI if all other skills no longer usable , or that one skill becomes the only one used while others shut down.Yes which is why Signets of Powers effect being crit based would help here as it would change Infiltrator's Signets additional passive effect from "Restore initiative when you kill a foe" to "Restore initiative upon landing a critical hit". This would alleviate the burden Unload puts on other skills while also making Vital Shot regenerating ini faster so that P/P isn't just "screwed" if your opponent manages to avoid your initial assault. This is also the only change they can make which actually addresses one of biggest underlying problems with P/P without having to A: redesign the whole weapon set (which I still think would be the most ideal solution) and B: having to resort to "excessive fine-tuning" which is pretty much safe to assume they're not going to bother with. It also has relatively little impact on other weapon sets and gives value to otherwise unused things so that would be another upside.

@babazhook.6805 said:If anything if they were worried about the damage out and wanted to cut it back they should have just lowered damage factors and LOWERED Ini costs.I doubt they are worried about damage, at least I hope that this isn't the case as it would just poorly reflect on them. P/P was never known for having "high damage" within the context of any relevant situation, quite the opposite.