Jump to content
  • Sign Up

NA's Low Platinum population and its effect on PvP, also how to improve it


Chaith.8256

Recommended Posts

Increasing rewards was never a solution to make players vs players gamemode attractive.They already did this in WvW and PvP and other game already did this too.It just never work.What make this kind of gamemode attractive is mainly about how the gameplay and balance is.Mean there were way more investment in WvW when there were no rewards and upgrading structures cost money than since they make it a blob lootbag farmland.So no, @Op : your solutions will just do temporary spike of activity which isn't solution.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe make the participation system add onto another counter that adds your daily contribution and goes to a max level of 7 which is only accessable through consistant gameplay over a week and as soon as decay kicks in it resets. This unlocks a new tab on the ascended shard vendor that has these rewards that everyone can get for playing daily and cost high amounts of ascended shards as another incentive for consistant gameplay and are only account bound and not tradeable.

But im not to sure about this idea as an incentive its just an idea based on @Chaith.8256 first suggestion or maybe not a week maybe make it for the whole season like @Leonidrex.5649 suggested ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Chaith.8256 said:@"apharma.3741"

Actually I'm quite convinced the best way to improve match quality is to have those decent players play way more games.

1.) An outmanned debuff where increased rewards for playing off-peak hours could also help, which I think is great, but can't help but point out you're saying "increased rewards completely misses the problem" and then suggest increased rewards.

2.) E-sports return to motivate players to get better. I'd be all for that, because I'm the only one in this thread who realizes that improvements aren't mutually exclusive, even if I think the evidence it will work is dubious, like e-sports increasing the yolo Q match quality.

Your idea misses the point because it's a blanket increase to rewards in platinum rank but the way you worded your problem it's the time period that's the issue not necessarily the rank as you're saying it's not an issue during prime. An incentive to play a little longer outside "peak" time might help, it won't be a magic bullet but extending prime time a little if done right.

That's regardless of whether I agree or disagree with your statements.

It's hard to know if some form of e-sports e-peen would really have a good effect but certainly players would be under more scrutiny and so less likely to be the...choice words I won't repeat on this forum.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I made a post before regarding matchmaking, and whether you agreed or disagreed with me, I think there were some good opinions presented. One guy, however, said that the +1 increase in PIP from being in Platinum over Gold was a reason why Plat should stay more exclusive. A literal +1 PIP difference, compared to your immense rewards for being in Platinum.

In terms of gameplay, I really do not see a difference between Plat 1 players and Gold players. IMO, the difference between Plat 2 players and Plat 1 players is greater than the difference between Plat 1 players and Gold 1 players.I think you focusing on "Gold 1 players are bad, run off meta, and don't care about reaching Platinum" is misguided. Like in your example, a Gold 1 player running some meta condi Rev build is better than some Gold 1 running Power shatter mirage. I would say, a Gold 1 running condi Rev is better than a Plat 1 running Power shatter mirage.

Anyways, from my perspective, the real issue is population. You can't increase rewards for reaching Platinum and think it will help increase the gameplay. Like look at the rankings now. IIRC (correct me if I'm wrong), the cutoff for Top 250 this season is actually higher than the cutoff for Top 250 last season.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"apharma.3741" said:You're saying it's not an issue during prime. An incentive to play a little longer outside "peak" time might help, it won't be a magic bullet but extending prime time a little if done right.

Not particularly, I think that even during prime time there are some wacky pulls of lower rated players into 1550-1850.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It wouldn't be a fair solution.

Players in the US region already have an unfair advantage in PvP to the rest of the world due to their superior connection response time.Since Ranked PvP is already a huge gold mine, further bolster reward for players abusing this advantage wouldn't help PvPs nor encourage players with 200 pings and above.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

it's pretty amazing you're still playing this game. really.good discussion.

my opinion is that ANet simply needs to move away from 5v5 and control. we've been playing this for 8 years, and it's feelsbadman.

balance should occur for deathmatch (2v2 and 3v3) on one end. and on the other end, for WvW-esque GvG blob stuff (15v15, 20v20) as SEPARATE balancing. Wrong forums I know, but there are a lot of people who like the blob synergy business. ANet's catastrophic mismanagement of pvp resources had to do with them investing all their eggs into 5v5 control, which has been a trash gamemode since 2012. With a side of Stronghold trashfire. Like, ALL the wrong moves.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Chaith.8256 said:I've thought off that, the many example perks I suggested are unlockable at higher ratings, not freebies for new players.

Still seems like smoke & mirrors, jingle keys, or a band-aid solution at best. There are people who actually want to play to compete, and couldn't care less about virtual rewards.

Actual new content and getting rid of or fixing the broken exploitable content that has been proven time and again to not work; that is likely how they'll begin to populate the middle-tiers. AKA the people who actually want to play to grow and get better, and probably aren't going to be swayed by jingle key rewards although it is tempting.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:100% agree with everything Chaith has already said. But let me shed some more light onto this topic. Hear me out, I think this may be rather important for his discussion concerning "Where the hell are the plat players?"

I've played with a lot of new guys over the years in voice chats. Here is the typical GW2 experience that I hear from most of these people:

  • They practice a bit in Unranked, get a feel for the game.
  • Run their first placements and tag in at around silver 3. They somewhat adapt quickly and begin playing around gold 1 consistently for their first 50 games or so.
  • They are only being put against maybe like gold 3s as their hard hitting opponents, so they may be losing but it isn't a roflstomping god-smack to the face, so the opponents feel contestable to them, and the new player is having fun learning how to breach the skill of those opponents. The game is fun to them.
  • The new players who care will eventually approach some guy with a plat badge and ask him how they can better play their class and what build is good. The ones who actually take the advice, usually immediately graduate into gold 2-3 range. Now they are really feeling like "They're getting something done. They're getting better at the game." And the journey of using these new discovered builds & job roles is amazingly fun when they are quickly learning how to surpass the players who once challenged them in gold 1 tier. They finish the season while hovering around bottom gold 3.
  • The next season begins and they've been 1v1ing practicing all off season. Now they're real fired up and ready to go. They slowly creep up into high gold, and it's fun. they can feel their personal skill increases, which is a pleasing thing to experience. Now they're finding themselves winning against some bottom platinum opponents but still losing to some, which they are having a hard time surmounting. But it's all within the realm of being "obtainable" and they are still having fun.
  • During that same season, they finally reach up into 1500 range for the very first time and they are super excited about it. It was quite the journey over the course of a season and a half of playing, 400 games or something, to have graduated from silver 3 to bottom plat 1. The very next game they queue, they are in a game with a top 20 duo against a top 20 duo. They immediately recognize that the difference between a 1500 and a 1700+ is much much larger than the difference between a 1300 and a 1500. During the 1300 to 1500 phase, why they were winning or losing was actually identifiable to them and they could set realistic goals for working to surpass their limitations. But while suddenly entering the 1500 to 1700+ phase, they become confused as to what is even happening in the match. They don't understand how players are killing them so fast. They don't understand what it even is they could do better or what they are doing wrong. They don't see any realistic goals to set for becoming better, aside from dedicating professional basement troll sweaty try hard levels of time invested, as if they were aiming to win a cash prize or something. <- And this is where the breaking point is, where people don't stick around.

The only people who stick around when meeting that 1500+ wall, are the ones who are strangely and manically obsessed with this game, which is definitely hindering the growth of the platinum community, and that goes back into what Chaith was original saying. There are two main reasons that I have viewed, that largely contribute to why most people don't stick around past 1500+

  1. It's just too kitten sweaty. Most people are really turned off by maximum curb stomping in ways that they are completely helpless to prevent. People don't mind losing and being made to get better, that's where the fun is. But people really do not like going against the actual best players in the game, every other match they queue. During the 1300 to 1500 experience, a player has breathing room to progress from point A to point B to point C, ect ect. But when they hit 1500 to 1700+ phase, they pretty much have to ascend from point D to Z immediately, if they want to be mechanically functional in the match at all, and for most people they decide the investment is too much of a hassle to get involved in.
  2. And this is the BIGGER reasons why people leave - Once a person has touched plat badge, they then begin to feel like they deserve the plat badge. When they are unable to reobtain the plat badge, they seriously rage quit and do not come back. In the past 12 months, I've had SO MANY contacts disappear never to be seen again, many of them Warriors & Mesmers actually. And this usually promptly happens after a night of hearing someone complain in the discord after they've spammed 50 games and are unable to reobtain bottom plat. They just rage quit out of not being able to maintain some kind of social appearance within the community.

Aside from all of the other problems that we could discuss, such as too much alt play in the top of the leaderboards, or all of the reasons that plat players have to milk 3 day decay times and avoid play, my point in bringing all of this up, is for Chaith's discussion concerning the lack of plat worthy opponents queueing. I believe that what we are looking at in terms of the biggest culprits preventing platinums from queueing frequently, are two things:

  1. There is almost a complete lack of platinum community growth, due to that wall of gtfo that I mentioned, that new players experience. And that ego rage when a player can't get that plat badge that they feel they deserve.
  2. Old platinum veterans all know that queueing is dangerous, and that once you've achieved a desired position, it is every bit advantageous to avoid play as much as possible, and only queue 1 game every 3 days, and only ever do it when it is safe to do so.

I mean, Ranked is currently designed to kill player incentive to queue past 1500. This is a serious problem to say the least.

So what can be done to fix these 2 outstanding problems? I dunno, you tell me. I'm just hear to point out what I've noticed to be the largest contributing factors as to why there is a serious lack of platinum worthy opponents in queue.

Simply amazing. That is it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Trigr.6481" said:First off, a terrible player running a good build is still a terrible player, and will get farmed regardless. Secondly, your grand idea to "fix it" is just adding more rewards? Do you honestly think that's going to attract people outside the game who aren't playing currently? Who would look at ranked conquest right now regardless of rewards and say "Wow that looks fun" Every single player myself included can only play for so long before getting stage 4 terminal cancer from the amount of aids that we encounter from terrible team mates. The only way ranked conquest is getting any better is with a few thousand players so the matchmaking can actually do its job properly.

Bingo. What matters is whether it's fun. It's not that fun right now.

  • Balance is a large factor. The game was decent back in core. It had a few outliers, which ANet was too slow to ever fix, but it was playable. Now it's ruined by power creep which doesn't seem like it will ever go away. Sure, damage was reduced, but the power creep is still there. People who rolled a character because of a particular playstyle which existed years ago still want to enjoy that playstyle. Not everyone wants to drop for the FotM class. And many of those FotM are frustrating to play against because they're far more forgiving than it takes to beat them.
  • Assuming balance was fixed and the game was more fun, I'd rather play with friends than alone. That means I'm likely not able to play ranked because of the asinine duo queue restriction.

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

  • During that same season, they finally reach up into 1500 range for the very first time and they are super excited about it. It was quite the journey over the course of a season and a half of playing, 400 games or something, to have graduated from silver 3 to bottom plat 1. The very next game they queue, they are in a game with a top 20 duo against a top 20 duo. They immediately recognize that the difference between a 1500 and a 1700+ is much much larger than the difference between a 1300 and a 1500. During the 1300 to 1500 phase, why they were winning or losing was actually identifiable to them and they could set realistic goals for working to surpass their limitations. But while suddenly entering the 1500 to 1700+ phase, they become confused as to what is even happening in the match. They don't understand how players are killing them so fast. They don't understand what it even is they could do better or what they are doing wrong. They don't see any realistic goals to set for becoming better, aside from dedicating professional basement troll sweaty try hard levels of time invested, as if they were aiming to win a cash prize or something. <- And this is where the breaking point is, where people don't stick around.

This happens because no one plays as a team anymore and few have bothered to learn how to play the game mode. You can climb to platinum by playing a meta build decently. But once there, winning depends more on picking fights you can win and avoiding or retreating from ones which you can't. Nothing up until that point conveys the conquest mindset. Why is that?

I'd argue it's because there's no team queue. When you don't have teams in a team-based format, it becomes "every man for himself". It promotes an environment of "it's everyone else's fault" and breeds players who thump their chest because they win a few meaningless fights. Build diversity suffers - few people want to play support or node-holder builds. Why put in the effort to play as a team if you'll never face anyone else who plays as a team? The knowledge of how to play the conquest format well doesn't get shared because the environment discourages it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Exedore.6320 said:

@"Trigr.6481" said:First off, a terrible player running a good build is still a terrible player, and will get farmed regardless. Secondly, your grand idea to "fix it" is just adding more rewards? Do you honestly think that's going to attract people outside the game who aren't playing currently? Who would look at ranked conquest right now regardless of rewards and say "Wow that looks fun" Every single player myself included can only play for so long before getting stage 4 terminal cancer from the amount of aids that we encounter from terrible team mates. The only way ranked conquest is getting any better is with a few thousand players so the matchmaking can actually do its job properly.

Bingo. What matters is whether it's fun. It's not that fun right now.
  • Balance is a large factor. The game was decent back in core. It had a few outliers, which ANet was too slow to ever fix, but it was playable. Now it's ruined by power creep which doesn't seem like it will ever go away. Sure, damage was reduced, but the power creep is still there. People who rolled a character because of a particular playstyle which existed years ago still want to enjoy that playstyle. Not everyone wants to drop for the FotM class. And many of those FotM are frustrating to play against because they're far more forgiving than it takes to beat them.
  • Assuming balance was fixed and the game was more fun, I'd rather play with friends than alone. That means I'm likely not able to play ranked because of the asinine duo queue restriction.

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:
  • During that same season, they finally reach up into 1500 range for the very first time and they are super excited about it. It was quite the journey over the course of a season and a half of playing, 400 games or something, to have graduated from silver 3 to bottom plat 1. The very next game they queue, they are in a game with a top 20 duo against a top 20 duo. They immediately recognize that the difference between a 1500 and a 1700+ is much much larger than the difference between a 1300 and a 1500. During the 1300 to 1500 phase, why they were winning or losing was actually identifiable to them and they could set realistic goals for working to surpass their limitations. But while suddenly entering the 1500 to 1700+ phase, they become confused as to what is even happening in the match. They don't understand how players are killing them so fast. They don't understand what it even is they could do better or what they are doing wrong. They don't see any realistic goals to set for becoming better, aside from dedicating professional basement troll sweaty try hard levels of time invested, as if they were aiming to win a cash prize or something. <- And this is where the breaking point is, where people don't stick around.

This happens because no one plays as a team anymore and few have bothered to learn how to play the game mode. You can climb to platinum by playing a meta build decently. But once there, winning depends more on picking fights you can win and avoiding or retreating from ones which you can't. Nothing up until that point conveys the conquest mindset. Why is that?

I'd argue it's because there's no team queue. When you don't have teams in a team-based format, it becomes "every man for himself". It promotes an environment of "it's everyone else's fault" and breeds players who thump their chest because they win a few meaningless fights. Build diversity suffers - few people want to play support or node-holder builds. Why put in the effort to play as a team if you'll never face anyone else who plays as a team? The knowledge of how to play the conquest format well doesn't get shared because the environment discourages it.

^ That's exactly what I mean though and definitely part of the problem.

The old veterans who were around during the ESL "Let's try hard to form a team" era, were able to experience the game in an entirely different and very advanced way. Some of us had YEARS to be able to learn while in TS or Discord in actual teams that were actually trying hard. So even during yolo/duo only, that experience carries over in ways that new players just cannot keep up with.

Can you imagine having 400-600 games under your belt, you just touched 1480 rating, you've never been in a voice chat with anyone to ever learn anything about higher tier conquest play, and you're going against two Team USA members who have someone 1650 with them that's also been around since year 1. There are things happening in that scenario that the new casual player will never even be able to identify why or how they are losing so badly.

Then of course most of these new players who are expecting a non-ESL based casual game to be casual, they don't want to have to try that hard to be able to breach into 1500-1600 play. As the years have gone on, and we've had many discussions about this in the forum, the big difference between who wanted it and who didn't it, was a big red line drawn between who was willing to get into and use a voice chat, and who wasn't. That is still true to this day and it dictates who is able to surpass that 1500 mark and who isn't. Players who actually actively seek out a real AT team, which that aren't many left of, are the players who eventually learn to "see conquest" in the way it was meant to be seen. And those are the players who even though they may still be bottom plat, they are able to at least recognize what it is they need to do or not do to be able to win a match, and why that match was won or lost. Therein the lies the potential to begin playing into 1500-1600, and the only thing holding them back at that point is just mechanical polishing and keeping up on patch to patch knowledge. But see the players who do not do that, will never see the game in that way, and so they will never rise into the playing field of the old veterans we have now.

So what Chaith is saying, I agree with. But I do not think that rewards alone will get older players to play more. Furthermore, I do not think that rewards luring in new players will matter at all, for the reasons I just mentioned. To make this game work for another 2 to 4+ years, we need a serious change in the infrastructure of how all of this is working on a core fundamental level of game design. I don't know if that means a new game mode, or if it means overhauling how our conquest works, but that is what needs to happen in my opinion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Chaith.8256 said:

@"apharma.3741" said:You're saying it's not an issue during prime. An incentive to play a little longer outside "peak" time might help, it won't be a magic bullet but extending prime time a little if done right.

Not particularly, I think that even during prime time there are some wacky pulls of lower rated players into 1550-1850.

Sure but there's not a lot that can be done about it when the population is low except making PvP fun and encouraging people to try it out and play it every now and then. ESLs would bring some more hype to PvP.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@apharma.3741 said:

@apharma.3741 said:You're saying it's not an issue during prime. An incentive to play a little longer outside "peak" time might help, it won't be a magic bullet but extending prime time a little if done right.

Not particularly, I think that even during prime time there are some wacky pulls of lower rated players into 1550-1850.

Sure but there's not a lot that can be done about it when the population is low except making PvP fun and encouraging people to try it out and play it every now and then. ESLs would bring some more hype to PvP.

Agreed, ESL is never coming back though and is totally unrealistic. You'll have to let go

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fix balance, never be perfect but as of now its complete trash level.Make rankings more dependent on personal performance AND team play.Make ALL decent rewards only achievable thru won games therefore giving players incentive to actually win matches instead of just being present for em.Add few more gamemode.Rest would take care of itself.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Fix balance, never be perfect but as of now its complete trash level.Make rankings more dependent on personal performance AND team play.Make ALL decent rewards only achievable thru won games therefore giving players incentive to actually win matches instead of just being present for em.Add few more gamemode.Rest would take care of itself.

Good goals, which I am 100% behind, but very similar to saying if we solve world hunger, poverty, cure cancer, the rest will take care of itself. How do you do all those things tho?

  • Balance has been perpetually the same, 1-2 underdog professions, one meta build per profession otherwise. Utterly standard. Every balance patch is just the truffle shuffle - what's the answer to really improving balance long-term? Current patch is always seen as the worst of all time tho. :+1:

  • Different rating based on their personal performance? That would be great if it wasn't very likely be gamed, very hard. Example, make everyone +1800 rated queue up at 5am even more, to be able to be a god among nine other 1400 rated players and collect brownie points for their great personal performance relative to others. Of hecking course their personal performance will be 4x anyone else on their team, win or loss. What's the answer to fairly giving players unique rating based on performance?

  • Give players a reward inventive to win? That's what ArenaNet was going for with a rated league complete with visible rating, badges, titles. Many like myself are trying to win for fun on top. It's all well and good except for the low pop problem I'm addressing in my thread. People are only losing the desire to win, (desire to live) when they get repeatedly rofflestomped by duos rated 400 rated higher or forced to solo queue and watch their 4 teammates crash and burn in 60 seconds.

  • Add more gamemodes, common suggestion, but what game mode is good and fair enough to have a savior effect on PvP? I don't know and nobody does. It wasn't stronghold, or the lukewarm reception to 2v2 (team annihilation) mode. I'm out of guesses, anyone have a real offering here?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Chaith.8256 said:

@apharma.3741 said:You're saying it's not an issue during prime. An incentive to play a little longer outside "peak" time might help, it won't be a magic bullet but extending prime time a little if done right.

Not particularly, I think that even during prime time there are some wacky pulls of lower rated players into 1550-1850.

Sure but there's not a lot that can be done about it when the population is low except making PvP fun and encouraging people to try it out and play it every now and then. ESLs would bring some more hype to PvP.

Agreed, ESL is never coming back though and is totally unrealistic. You'll have to let go

If you'd asked me a year ago if we'd ever get a proper rebalance of the game to remove a lot of the powercreep I'd have said no, I wouldn't count out ESLs entirely.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@apharma.3741 said:

@apharma.3741 said:You're saying it's not an issue during prime. An incentive to play a little longer outside "peak" time might help, it won't be a magic bullet but extending prime time a little if done right.

Not particularly, I think that even during prime time there are some wacky pulls of lower rated players into 1550-1850.

Sure but there's not a lot that can be done about it when the population is low except making PvP fun and encouraging people to try it out and play it every now and then. ESLs would bring some more hype to PvP.

Agreed, ESL is never coming back though and is totally unrealistic. You'll have to let go

If you'd asked me a year ago if we'd ever get a proper rebalance of the game to remove a lot of the powercreep I'd have said no, I wouldn't count out ESLs entirely.

The public would respect GW2 eSports returning about as much as we respect the 7th re-release of Bless Online.

That's why it won't happen. PvP forum = love GW2 eSports. Everyone else at ArenaNet and ESL would veto, hard.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@apharma.3741 said:

@apharma.3741 said:You're saying it's not an issue during prime. An incentive to play a little longer outside "peak" time might help, it won't be a magic bullet but extending prime time a little if done right.

Not particularly, I think that even during prime time there are some wacky pulls of lower rated players into 1550-1850.

Sure but there's not a lot that can be done about it when the population is low except making PvP fun and encouraging people to try it out and play it every now and then. ESLs would bring some more hype to PvP.

Agreed, ESL is never coming back though and is totally unrealistic. You'll have to let go

If you'd asked me a year ago if we'd ever get a proper rebalance of the game to remove a lot of the powercreep I'd have said no, I wouldn't count out ESLs entirely.

ESL requires a fan base and viewers. GW2 does not pull viewers. A “successful” event for GW2 is now 1000 to 2000 viewers, which doesn’t even become a blip on the esports radar. It’s a bad investment for ESL and won’t happen.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Chaith.8256 said:People are only losing the desire to win, (desire to live) when they get repeatedly rofflestomped by duos rated 400 rated higher or forced to solo queue and watch their 4 teammates crash and burn in 60 seconds.

gonna highlight this here. this game needs a team queue mode, or else it will always feel like teammate roulette- because with the small pop it is.

no one I've brought to this game recently is keen on solo queue only ranked, because it makes it a frustrating joke. I literally had a friend lose 3 games in a row because of the same afk toxic player, he ended up having to solve this by queue dodging the guy. anet's refusal to ban anyone for any reason, regardless of how badly they behave has given a free pass to toxic behaviour in ranked, and it seriously detracts from the fun of the experience.

literally the only reason to play ranked is for the rewards right now. the players are just as bad, as they are in unranked- to be honest I've encountered far more MAT players in unranked (why play unranked you ask? more than 1 other person in discord and I'm not antisocial lol). the match quality is completely all over the place in both modes, NA just doesn't seem to have the playerbase to make good matches.

so, if you want more people to play, and to play more often- uh how about letting them play with each other instead of having to carry randoms and deal with toxic afk players- because that's frustrating. that makes people not want to queue ranked. that forces people to queue dodge and do other low level match manipulation. that stops them telling their buddies they play other games with to come play ranked with them, because they can't play together.

will the perma solo queue heroes complain? yeah, but they are already complaining about their teammates, often talking trash in map chat and going afk too. they are already toxic and salty, there is no pleasing them, it's impossible. there will always be something for them to blame a loss on and mald about, just save the rest of us the pain from having to have them on our team reeeeeeeing at spawn because someone played warrior.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Drennon.7190 said:

@apharma.3741 said:You're saying it's not an issue during prime. An incentive to play a little longer outside "peak" time might help, it won't be a magic bullet but extending prime time a little if done right.

Not particularly, I think that even during prime time there are some wacky pulls of lower rated players into 1550-1850.

Sure but there's not a lot that can be done about it when the population is low except making PvP fun and encouraging people to try it out and play it every now and then. ESLs would bring some more hype to PvP.

Agreed, ESL is never coming back though and is totally unrealistic. You'll have to let go

If you'd asked me a year ago if we'd ever get a proper rebalance of the game to remove a lot of the powercreep I'd have said no, I wouldn't count out ESLs entirely.

ESL requires a fan base and viewers. GW2 does not pull viewers. A “successful” event for GW2 is now 1000 to 2000 viewers, which doesn’t even become a blip on the esports radar. It’s a bad investment for ESL and won’t happen.

Weekly/monthly ESLs for GW2 didn't have a lot of viewers, can't remember the exact numbers but I'm pretty sure it was sub 1,000 and ESL kept it up for years. Not everything has to draw in 40k+ viewers and $100k prize pools to be a success.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@apharma.3741 said:

@apharma.3741 said:You're saying it's not an issue during prime. An incentive to play a little longer outside "peak" time might help, it won't be a magic bullet but extending prime time a little if done right.

Not particularly, I think that even during prime time there are some wacky pulls of lower rated players into 1550-1850.

Sure but there's not a lot that can be done about it when the population is low except making PvP fun and encouraging people to try it out and play it every now and then. ESLs would bring some more hype to PvP.

Agreed, ESL is never coming back though and is totally unrealistic. You'll have to let go

If you'd asked me a year ago if we'd ever get a proper rebalance of the game to remove a lot of the powercreep I'd have said no, I wouldn't count out ESLs entirely.

ESL requires a fan base and viewers. GW2 does not pull viewers. A “successful” event for GW2 is now 1000 to 2000 viewers, which doesn’t even become a blip on the esports radar. It’s a bad investment for ESL and won’t happen.

Weekly/monthly ESLs for GW2 didn't have a lot of viewers, can't remember the exact numbers but I'm pretty sure it was sub 1,000 and ESL kept it up for years. Not everything has to draw in 40k+ viewers and $100k prize pools to be a success.

Viewership/population wasn’t enough for them to renew their contract then. Why would they do it now when even less people play or even care about the game?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

GW2 ESL was nothing short than a horrid attempt to become a botch job of a Busch League.Drunk and wasted Anet partnered trashing the game and the developers after winning a match or tournament.Developers punishing cheaters and drunken fools with the most laughable punishments that served nothing more as an inconvenience for the offenders.Commentators self promoting themselves the whole time or showing extreme favoritism to one player or team to a sickening level.The only thing that ESL scene provided for GW2 were laughable articles to read when you're on the toilet and some "drama".

The population issue for PVP is nothing new with regards to skilled players or general populace. I'm all for any idea that will fix this. However, I strongly believe ESL is a horrible idea. At best, it will only generate minor interest with the PVE community to try out PVP until they realize that the community is as supportive as a broken bra strap. For the PVP community, it will only create talking points between matches and something new for them to farm until they get annoyed at the PVE community or get bored farming stacks of the same items. Both of which, neither address or fix the underlying issues of "good players" to play with.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Drennon.7190 said:

@apharma.3741 said:You're saying it's not an issue during prime. An incentive to play a little longer outside "peak" time might help, it won't be a magic bullet but extending prime time a little if done right.

Not particularly, I think that even during prime time there are some wacky pulls of lower rated players into 1550-1850.

Sure but there's not a lot that can be done about it when the population is low except making PvP fun and encouraging people to try it out and play it every now and then. ESLs would bring some more hype to PvP.

Agreed, ESL is never coming back though and is totally unrealistic. You'll have to let go

If you'd asked me a year ago if we'd ever get a proper rebalance of the game to remove a lot of the powercreep I'd have said no, I wouldn't count out ESLs entirely.

ESL requires a fan base and viewers. GW2 does not pull viewers. A “successful” event for GW2 is now 1000 to 2000 viewers, which doesn’t even become a blip on the esports radar. It’s a bad investment for ESL and won’t happen.

Weekly/monthly ESLs for GW2 didn't have a lot of viewers, can't remember the exact numbers but I'm pretty sure it was sub 1,000 and ESL kept it up for years. Not everything has to draw in 40k+ viewers and $100k prize pools to be a success.

Viewership/population wasn’t enough for them to renew their contract then. Why would they do it now when even less people play or even care about the game?

They didn't renew because they were hoping the big GW2 Pro League tournaments would pay off, they didn't. The smaller monthly tournaments for gems played out really well and had as many viewers as pro league (the weekly matches) had towards the end for a fraction of the cost. It's these weekly/monthly ESLs that I'd like to see return, not the big Pro League.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@apharma.3741 said:They didn't renew because they were hoping the big GW2 Pro League tournaments would pay off, they didn't.

You're putting your speculation forth like fact. What if they didn't renew for a multitude of other plausible reasons that don't go with your BRING BACK ESL narrative? lol

Maybe like Pro League Bunker Mesmer season and the subsequent massive dislike bars on all the content? That yeeted GW2 ESL right off a cliff. I agree it had a lot of good moments.

The smaller monthly tournaments for gems played out really well and had as many viewers as pro league (the weekly matches) had towards the end for a fraction of the cost. It's these weekly/monthly ESLs that I'd like to see return, not the big Pro League.

However, the Big Pro League had even more good moments. I don't know why your wishlist is so slanted towards ESLsports

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Chaith.8256 said:

@"apharma.3741" said:They didn't renew because they were hoping the big GW2 Pro League tournaments would pay off, they didn't.

You're putting your speculation forth like fact. What if they didn't renew for a multitude of other plausible reasons that don't go with your BRING BACK ESL narrative? lol

Maybe like Pro League Bunker Mesmer season and the subsequent massive dislike bars on all the content? That yeeted GW2 ESL right off a cliff. I agree it had a lot of good moments.

The smaller monthly tournaments for gems played out really well and had as many viewers as pro league (the weekly matches) had towards the end for a fraction of the cost. It's these weekly/monthly ESLs that I'd like to see return, not the big Pro League.

However, the Big Pro League had even more good moments. I don't know why your wishlist is so slanted towards ESLsports

Are you really about to disagree that Pro League didn't pay off for ESL and their advertising? Think very carefully about this Chaith, I know you like to disagree with me but you're getting close to shooting yourself in the foot. Pro League didn't pull in anywhere near the viewership they hoped for to satisfy advertiser spending after the first 2 weeks.

I would honestly say both had their ups and downs. I won't lie and say I don't remember the awfulness of 5 eles and then the refined version of 4 eles, 1 thief for the stealth mistform rez from weekly ESLs and all the other BS in weeklies but the difference is one cost substantially less to run.

It's not that ESLs are my wish list, it's that I think it's a better idea than "let's throw more rewards at people at Platinum rank" which solves nothing or "let's give PvP players access to everything via PvP" as all that does is stop players branching out to different content. If you have a better and more well thought out idea I'd be all up for hearing it though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...