Thief weapon set comparison

[SlitheSlivier.1908]

How does each weaponset compare to the others in terms of playstyle, 1v1 class matchups, small group performance, and solo-capturing WvW camps in an efficient time? I currently am running a shadow staff build i made for kicks and because it can clear wvw camps well, but can't decide on what i actually want to do with thief bc i don't actually know a ton of the other builds' and how they compare in 1v1 scenarios vs other classes/specific builds. I also want to be able to clear wvw camps by myself in a reasonable amount of time.

[ASP.8093]

This is more based on observing thieves than first-hand experience at the moment, but…

Staff is the go-to zergy melee weapon and it's actually fine in a small fight, imo. In big fights you're looking to chain evades so you can "float" over the enemy zerg a little; in small fights you want to mix in stealth and time your Vault to "punish" their big attacks (evade them and do big damage). Note that PvE sustain traits designed around "you will always hit the enemy, they're just a damage sponge you need to evade-tank for a minute" like Invigorating Precision or Acrobatics won't get you as far, though; like all PvP thieves, you get more value out of positioning, blind, and stealth.

Most thieves fishing around for big dramatic single-target "delete!" moments will pick Dagger/Pistol or Rifle. Both give a lot of access to stealth (with Rifle you gotta take Silent Scope). This is your traditional thief burst gameplay. Note that WvW/PvP Rifle has different scaling coefficients compared to PvE so you'll likely use Skirmisher's Shot much more than you would in PvE.

Shortbow is the critical mobility/utility weapon. You can kiiiiiinda get away with D/P + Rifle on the Deadeye super-stealth meme build but even then I think Shortbow will do more for you when you're trying to reposition or escape. Running SB with Sigils of Cleansing and Energy is like having a second Shadow Return on your skill bar.

Camp clears are pretty easy in general; remember you can just switch weapons if you really need to, since the guards are just sitting there passively while waiting for you to walk up.

[SlitheSlivier.1908]

@"ASP.8093" said:This is more based on observing thieves than first-hand experience at the moment, but…

Staff is the go-to zergy melee weapon and it's actually fine in a small fight, imo. In big fights you're looking to chain evades so you can "float" over the enemy zerg a little; in small fights you want to mix in stealth and time your Vault to "punish" their big attacks (evade them and do big damage). Note that PvE sustain traits designed around "you will always hit the enemy, they're just a damage sponge you need to evade-tank for a minute" like Invigorating Precision or Acrobatics won't get you as far, though; like all PvP thieves, you get more value out of positioning, blind, and stealth.

Most thieves fishing around for big dramatic single-target "delete!" moments will pick Dagger/Pistol or Rifle. Both give a lot of access to stealth (with Rifle you gotta take Silent Scope). This is your traditional thief burst gameplay. Note that WvW/PvP Rifle has different scaling coefficients compared to PvE so you'll likely use Skirmisher's Shot much more than you would in PvE.

Shortbow is the critical mobility/utility weapon. You can kiiiiiinda get away with D/P + Rifle on the Deadeye super-stealth meme build but even then I think Shortbow will do more for you when you're trying to reposition or escape. Running SB with Sigils of Cleansing and Energy is like having a second Shadow Return on your skill bar.

Camp clears are pretty easy in general; remember you can just switch weapons if you really need to, since the guards are just sitting there passively while waiting for you to walk up.

This is very helpful, thanks!I'm especially curious about how D/D and S/D compare with each other and vs other builds too.

[kash.9213]

@SlitheSlivier.1908 said:

@"ASP.8093" said:This is more based on observing thieves than first-hand experience at the moment, but…

Staff is the go-to zergy melee weapon and it's actually fine in a small fight, imo. In big fights you're looking to chain evades so you can "float" over the enemy zerg a little; in small fights you want to mix in stealth and time your Vault to "punish" their big attacks (evade them

and

do big damage). Note that PvE sustain traits designed around "you will always hit the enemy, they're just a damage sponge you need to evade-tank for a minute" like Invigorating Precision or Acrobatics won't get you as far, though; like all PvP thieves, you get more value out of positioning, blind, and stealth.

Most thieves fishing around for big dramatic single-target "delete!" moments will pick Dagger/Pistol or Rifle. Both give a lot of access to stealth (with Rifle you gotta take Silent Scope). This is your traditional thief burst gameplay. Note that WvW/PvP Rifle has different scaling coefficients compared to PvE so you'll likely use Skirmisher's Shot much more than you would in PvE.

Shortbow is the critical mobility/utility weapon. You can kiiiiiinda get away with D/P + Rifle on the Deadeye super-stealth meme build but even then I think Shortbow will do more for you when you're trying to reposition or escape. Running SB with Sigils of Cleansing and Energy is like having a second Shadow Return on your skill bar.

Camp clears are pretty easy in general; remember you can just switch weapons if you really need to, since the guards are just sitting there passively while waiting for you to walk up.

This is very helpful, thanks!I'm especially curious about how D/D and S/D compare with each other and vs other builds too.

I have fun with D/D sometimes plus shortbow but I feel like I have to use a slot for Inf signet and it's still pretty limited. S/D can handle distance and topography and can walk in and out of fights and hang for a bit if I'm calm and staying aware of everything else creeping around in my peripheral, I only have so much Initiative. I don't use Dancing Dagger a lot but I'll remember I have it and that it bounces.

Apart from what ASP broke down I like Rifle Kneel for blinds, stealth, and cover (I think most people don't bother with Kneel though) and for scaling some walls and obstacles or for positioning/orientation with Death's Retreat (DR untargeted to choose direction). Shortbow is great all around and is fluid with most other kits and it feels natural like staff skills for me targeted or untargeted. SB is clutch pretty often and depending on how you trait remember that SB 6 has a blind and is also considered a shadowstep. SB 3 & 6 are fun combo'd with Daredevil Bound.

[SlitheSlivier.1908]

How do they all compare vs specific matchups? Or generally is it d/p > rifle > s/d > d/d > staff.... except for group fights where staff has a better place?

[ASP.8093]

Sword/Dagger is pretty nifty but hard, imo. You can probably win some fights a D/P thief couldn't, but it's tricky to recover from mistakes. Mostly people who like it seem to like it because it "feels" a bit more like dueling someone than the cat-and-mouse stuff that D/P turns into. Personally, since I am a scrub thief, I'd rather use Staff than S/D — I feel like the evade access is more straightforward and the damage is easier to land.

Also note that if you're just eyeing S/D for the sweet sweet boon rips, you can also do D/P with Trickery and Superior Sigil of Absorption. (Or even Staff, as long as you are willing to bring a Daredevil interrupt as one of your utilities or elites.)

---

As far as the rejects (imo):

Pistol/Dagger is a decent SPvP condition burst build right now but it seems only good for trolling in WvW. (Roamers run Cleansing sigil. Even small WvW groups roll with more cleanse/sustain than SPvP teams do. 900 range + a melee burst opener is worse in this game mode than any other.) I wouldn't spend the resources to gear for it, personally.

As far as I know, Pistol/Pistol and Sword/Pistol are just too static/one-note for use in any game mode that's not all fighting NPCs.

[SlitheSlivier.1908]

@"ASP.8093" said:Sword/Dagger is pretty nifty but hard, imo. You can probably win some fights a D/P thief couldn't, but it's tricky to recover from mistakes. Mostly people who like it seem to like it because it "feels" a bit more like dueling someone than the cat-and-mouse stuff that D/P turns into. Personally, since I am a scrub thief, I'd rather use Staff than S/D — I feel like the evade access is more straightforward and the damage is easier to land.

Also note that if you're just eyeing S/D for the sweet sweet boon rips, you can also do D/P with Trickery and Superior Sigil of Absorption. (Or even Staff, as long as you are willing to bring a Daredevil interrupt as one of your utilities or elites.)

---

As far as the rejects (imo):

Pistol/Dagger is a decent SPvP condition burst build right now but it seems only good for trolling in WvW. (Roamers run Cleansing sigil. Even small WvW groups roll with more cleanse/sustain than SPvP teams do. 900 range + a melee burst opener is worse in this game mode than any other.) I wouldn't spend the resources to gear for it, personally.

As far as I know, Pistol/Pistol and Sword/Pistol are just too static/one-note for use in any game mode that's not all fighting

I was thinking s/d has access to lots of dazed with stealth and 10s steal could be fun

[saerni.2584]

P/D is good for WvW if you run the right build.

P/D is a hybrid weapon set that is suited towards kiting with Shadowstrike and Dancing Dagger. You have direct stealth access off Cloak and Dagger so you can mix physical positioning and stealth to confuse your enemies.

Clearing camps quickly isn’t too hard. Just kill the scouts quickly at the start. You can also line of sight to bunch up enemies and use an AoE weapon like Staff or Shortbow to quickly kill them all at the same time. Combo with Smoke Screen to avoid getting hit.

[kash.9213]

@SlitheSlivier.1908 said:

@"ASP.8093" said:Sword/Dagger is pretty nifty but

hard

, imo. You can probably win some fights a D/P thief couldn't, but it's tricky to recover from mistakes. Mostly people who like it seem to like it because it "feels" a bit more like dueling someone than the cat-and-mouse stuff that D/P turns into. Personally, since I am a scrub thief, I'd rather use Staff than S/D — I feel like the evade access is more straightforward and the damage is easier to land.

Also note that if you're just eyeing S/D for the sweet sweet boon rips, you can also do D/P with Trickery and Superior Sigil of Absorption. (Or even Staff, as long as you are willing to bring a Daredevil interrupt as one of your utilities or elites.)

---

As far as the rejects (imo):

Pistol/Dagger is a decent SPvP condition burst build right now but it seems only good for trolling in WvW. (Roamers run Cleansing sigil. Even small WvW groups roll with more cleanse/sustain than SPvP teams do. 900 range + a melee burst opener is worse in this game mode than any other.) I wouldn't spend the resources to gear for it, personally.

As far as I know, Pistol/Pistol and Sword/Pistol are just too static/one-note for use in any game mode that's not all fighting

I was thinking s/d has access to lots of dazed with stealth and 10s steal could be fun

Usually a Steal/Swipe+Cloak n Dagger combo puts you in place for Tactical strike but it's not the most clutch skill which is fine because the blind is alright if you don't need to pile on interrupts right then.

[Infusion.7149]

For WvW , Staff and sword have the most cleave ; shortbow is decent damage on cluster bomb and is AoE as well. Staff allows you to evade in a very straightforward manner, while sword requires evading through shadow steps. With s/d you have a boon rip on dual attack which is more reliable than shadow arts with d/p which gets shut down by reveal or marked.

d/p isn't really suited for WvW in my opinion because of the warclaw "Sniff" and marked debuff which blunts most of the shadow arts synergy.

Only "dueling" thieves and trolls run pistol mainhand or rifle. There's too much projectile hate and scrappers are popular as well so conditions like bleeding don't stick.

[saerni.2584]

@"Infusion.7149" said:For WvW , Staff and sword have the most cleave ; shortbow is decent damage on cluster bomb and is AoE as well. Staff allows you to evade in a very straightforward manner, while sword requires evading through shadow steps. With s/d you have a boon rip on dual attack which is more reliable than shadow arts with d/p which gets shut down by reveal or marked.

d/p isn't really suited for WvW in my opinion because of the warclaw "Sniff" and marked debuff which blunts most of the shadow arts synergy.

Only "dueling" thieves and trolls run pistol mainhand or rifle. There's too much projectile hate and scrappers are popular as well so conditions like bleeding don't stick.

I run pistol on roaming and, trust me, very few builds have enough projectile hate to make it that difficult. I also don’t see that many roaming Scrappers.

Also, while marked can be an issue for stealth gameplay, it only is a real problem if you fight near sentries. You can go around them or eliminate them to make stealth gameplay possible.

[kash.9213]

@"Infusion.7149" said:For WvW , Staff and sword have the most cleave ; shortbow is decent damage on cluster bomb and is AoE as well. Staff allows you to evade in a very straightforward manner, while sword requires evading through shadow steps. With s/d you have a boon rip on dual attack which is more reliable than shadow arts with d/p which gets shut down by reveal or marked.

d/p isn't really suited for WvW in my opinion because of the warclaw "Sniff" and marked debuff which blunts most of the shadow arts synergy.

Only "dueling" thieves and trolls run pistol mainhand or rifle. There's too much projectile hate and scrappers are popular as well so conditions like bleeding don't stick.

I've gotten used to switching to rifle real quick to pop off a DJ into the air for my own reveal, doable but frustrating, especially when you're trying to help someone out but are limited on setup. I like d/p utility in small group to large scale stuff but it just doesn't have the reach around obstacles that s/d and rifle have and I feel like I can brawl more on those also.