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Downstate has got to go!


Einar.1482

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Look its time Anet removed downstate in competitive game modes. IE: wvw/spvp.There is no reason why a player or players should have to continue using cooldowns on players who have been beaten. If they want to implement a rez mechanic implement hard rez utility skills such as Sig of undeath and Sig of Mercy.These skills are fantastic and certainly serve a place in the game as a rez mechanic but we have got to get away from players in downstate continuing to cause issues for players who are not downed.Furthermore, this eliminates some of the BM that can occur with downed bodies such as siege, jumping. bleeding out etc.There will be some that argue bleeding out is an important mechanic in gw2 Spvp. While this may have some merit I still find it to be largely unhealthy for a player vs player mode or anything even resembling a competitive game mode. Im sure there are some examples that are eluding me at the moment but the majority of semi competitive games to the higher tier competitive games do NOT have a downstate mechanic and certainly not one where the downed player can still interact with the players who are not downed in a way that is meaningful

Perhaps this would lead to more bursty gameplay or perhaps more sustaining gameplay but it would allow players who are skilled to win outnumbered fights while furthermore incentivize team play and cooperation because death is a much more realistic and looming threat.

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There were several pretty fun WvW weekends where it was no downed state. So the tech exists. And it was extremely fun to play. You could smoothly fight even very outnumbered and not have to quick stomp downs.

I’d like some kind of new sPvP game mode that is no downed state. Would be fun to sometimes get rid of the weird balancing issues downed state creates.

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Downstate is okay. And an interesting mechanics. Only the rallying is a bit "funny" sometimes ... when suddenly you get up cause some enemy you die enough damage gets killed by a teammate and you don't even see it because they are already fighting somewhere else. :D

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Downstate ups the skill cap by adding a layer of teamwork, awareness, decision making, etc to a game where the combat is frankly not particularly skilled, damage application especially is faceroll, even more so on certain classes. (an "action" combat game that aims for you, LOL)

Which is why more skilled players tend to manage downstate better than less skilled ones., such as back when this game had "e-sports" you could see the handful of teams that were actually good, generally handled downstate better than the other PvP teams, let alone bad WvW players.

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@"Sylosi.6503" said:Downstate ups the skill cap by adding a layer of teamwork, awareness, decision making, etc to a game where the combat is frankly not particularly skilled, damage application especially is faceroll, even more so on certain classes. (an "action" combat game that aims for you, LOL)

Which is why more skilled players tend to manage downstate better than less skilled ones., such as back when this game had "e-sports" you could see the handful of teams that were actually good, generally handled downstate better than the other PvP teams, let alone bad WvW players.

It adds so much skill cap that no other competitive game has it. Imagine any moba/fps or whatever game with downstate. LMAONot to mention that they are grossly unbalanced between classes. Its a mechanic to carry noobs who technically died. Theres no skill cap involved. And it gets even worse when you do 1vX down someone but u cant just go on the second dude cuz you have stomp the dude that should be dead in the first place while somehow hes still being able to attack you for hefty amount of damage

The general rule is you died = you gtfo to spawn in any semi competent game. And i dont think theres any other game with downstate anyway apart from gw2.

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@Einar.1482 said:Look its time Anet removed downstate in competitive game modes. IE: wvw/spvp.There is no reason why a player or players should have to continue using cooldowns on players who have been beaten. If they want to implement a rez mechanic implement hard rez utility skills such as Sig of undeath and Sig of Mercy.These skills are fantastic and certainly serve a place in the game as a rez mechanic but we have got to get away from players in downstate continuing to cause issues for players who are not downed.Furthermore, this eliminates some of the BM that can occur with downed bodies such as siege, jumping. bleeding out etc.There will be some that argue bleeding out is an important mechanic in gw2 Spvp. While this may have some merit I still find it to be largely unhealthy for a player vs player mode or anything even resembling a competitive game mode. Im sure there are some examples that are eluding me at the moment but the majority of semi competitive games to the higher tier competitive games do NOT have a downstate mechanic and certainly not one where the downed player can still interact with the players who are not downed in a way that is meaningful

Perhaps this would lead to more bursty gameplay or perhaps more sustaining gameplay but it would allow players who are skilled to win outnumbered fights while furthermore incentivize team play and cooperation because death is a much more realistic and looming threat.

This is like asking for mounts or the trading post to be removed. One of the things that gives this game its unique identity won't just disappear because a few players dislike it.

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@"Sylosi.6503" said:Downstate ups the skill cap by adding a layer of teamwork, awareness, decision making, etc to a game where the combat is frankly not particularly skilled, damage application especially is faceroll, even more so on certain classes. (an "action" combat game that aims for you, LOL)

Which is why more skilled players tend to manage downstate better than less skilled ones., such as back when this game had "e-sports" you could see the handful of teams that were actually good, generally handled downstate better than the other PvP teams, let alone bad WvW players.

There is no skill involved when you have beaten a player, on 20 health, and your skills are on cooldown to be then downed by a person in downed state. Whats worse is that since downed state abilities are so varied, the ranger you downed will actually revive much faster than you. Downed state skills favor condi bunker builds while punishing burst glass builds. Keep the downed state, remove downed state abilities imo.

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Downstate is the worst. If I could go back in time and prevent downstate from being added to the game I would without hesitation.

But at this point I think its too late to remove it. As much as I would adore it to be gone. Its like a cancer that's wrapped around essential arteries at this point. The work that would need to be done on the game to facilitate its removal is just too great. Traits, skills, runes would all need reworks.

I hate downstate. But its too late to remove it.

I would say just nerf the hell out of it. If a player goes into downstate the revivers should need some serious coordination and be forced to use actual cooldowns to get them back up. Not just walking up to the body and pressing F.

Personally a 3 second cooldown. Once you go down you can't be revived by pressing F for 3 seconds. Skill based heals still work and if enough can get you up, but no F reviving for 3 seconds. No rallying, you need to choose, save your friend or live with a trade. Finally downstate penalty, you get 1 life per fight. If you go down and get revived that's your life spent, If you go down again in the same fight, regardless of how long its been since you last went down, then you are instantly double downed. Only way to reset the downed penalty is to get out of combat, and even then I'd add a 30 second grace period to stop thieves and other classes from just constantly retreating and resetting their downed penalty.

Going into downstate should be extremely punishing, but as it stands now, if you have numbers on your side and your team is ready for you to go down, there's really nothing the outnumbered party can do. Reviving is just too quick and too easy.

This is the biggest problem with the game right now.

Please Anet.

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Downstate is not the problem.

Rallying, rez skills, and no penalties are the problem.

Noone likes a dumb snowball.

Penalty:Down: Fragile debuff for 120 seconds (25% reduced damage, healing, defense)Down with Fragile debuff active: Near Death (50% reduced damage, healing, defense), refreshes to 120 secondsDown with Near Death debuff: Death.

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What would happen to the fancy and flashy sPvP finishers if ANet were to remove downstate?

The game make more money out of the player's vanity than out of the player's playing satisfaction. Mount have no real reason to exist due to the waypoint system yet players pushed for them and finally got them (Heck there were even sPvP thread asking for Lama mount). It's the same for gliders, mini-pet, armor/weapon skins or capes/backpack, they are mostly vanity money. Why would ANet remove a source of incoming money (finishers) to please the players? How would they gain anything by removing an easy source of income? It's not that removing downstate will suddenly make people buy the game or spend their money for in game goodies.

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@"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:Downstate is not the problem.

Rallying, rez skills, and no penalties are the problem.

Noone likes a dumb snowball.

Penalty:Down: Fragile debuff for 120 seconds (25% reduced damage, healing, defense)Down with Fragile debuff active: Near Death (50% reduced damage, healing, defense), refreshes to 120 secondsDown with Near Death debuff: Death.

Are you seriously suggesting 2 minutes of cutting stats by half? People cry for balance changes when something outperforms by 10-15%, and you want to throw out 25% and 50% penalities lasting for 2 whole minutes? In a game where the whole match lasts 8-10 mintes no less.

People would just let their teammates die, rallying would be the worse thing that could happen to you.

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@Dadnir.5038 said:What would happen to the fancy and flashy sPvP finishers if ANet were to remove downstate?

The game make more money out of the player's vanity than out of the player's playing satisfaction. Mount have no real reason to exist due to the waypoint system yet players pushed for them and finally got them (Heck there were even sPvP thread asking for Lama mount). It's the same for gliders, mini-pet, armor/weapon skins or capes/backpack, they are mostly vanity money. Why would ANet remove a source of incoming money (finishers) to please the players? How would they gain anything by removing an easy source of income? It's not that removing downstate will suddenly make people buy the game or spend their money for in game goodies.

They could just turn the finishers into on kill effects, then give us the option to turn them off during WvW when blobs get wiped so my screen isn't filled with dozens of blinding effects.

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Imo downstate is necessary to prevent "heavy burstplay" from happening (imagine rushing alone understealth in a 5 ppl group and doing that spin-to-win skill with your full berserker gear and your 25 mights + quickness, solely sending to respawn a whole team with little to no counter play ?). But...

  • WHY can 1 kill rally a WHOLE TEAM ??
  • WHY is rallying SO POWERFUL ?? (50% health ?)
  • WHY skills keep recharging WHEN DOWNSTATE ??
  • WHY are finishers SO SLOW ?? (I cant even remember last time I actually finished someone by pressing F ...)
  • WHY is rezzing SO FAST ??
  • WHY are there rezzing skills that have so little animations ?? (I'd put an insane beam of light from the sky when it's happening)
  • WHY downstate skills are SO DIFFERENTLY POWERFUL between classes ??
  • WHY it has not been fixed YET ?? Most of the changes only require small number adjustements ...
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No BM in competitive game modes sounds like boring game. I am BMing people in chess since the age of 4. I am entitled to have my teabags and have two full stacks of Omegas to siege every Ranger that I see in WvW. Especially friendly ones.

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@CutesySylveon.8290 said:They could just turn the finishers into on kill effects, then give us the option to turn them off during WvW when blobs get wiped so my screen isn't filled with dozens of blinding effects.

Objectively, in how many instance did you see ANet favouring Quality of Life over their game mechanisms? Personally, I can't recall of any, but I can recall of plenty instances where they destroyed QoL for the sake of balancing a broken design or game mechanisms. Downstate is bound to stay, there are traits and runes effects dedicated to the downstate, there is IRL money to gain out of it. And above all, the downstate is designed with PvP in mind not with PvE, it's highly unlikely that ANet will invest time and money to go back on this design/mechanism. (As an outlet in form of temporary event, maybe. Permanently, nope, unlikely.)

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Necro's downstate damage is the OP outlier in this scenario. So many times have I 1v1 a Necro, fair and square. Just to be killed by his ridiculous downstate abilities. Aoe condi spawns or power damage AA. I understand the class's power over death, but is the purpose truly to frustrate players?

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@Stallic.2397 said:Necro's downstate damage is the OP outlier in this scenario. So many times have I 1v1 a Necro, fair and square. Just to be killed by his ridiculous downstate abilities. Aoe condi spawns or power damage AA. I understand the class's power over death, but is the purpose truly to frustrate players?

the tradeoff is that they cant reposition, and its rather easy to stomp them.

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