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pvp is unplayable

VoidNard.7206VoidNard.7206 Member ✭✭✭

The balance in pvp is so bad, and with each new patch, the devs change nothing and make the game worse. They remove all amulets and rune thinking that it fixes anything, meanwhile you still have completely busted professions with tons of balancing problems. Pvp is not fun in any way right now, on top of the fact that matchmaking is pure garbage, theres no reason to play pvp except to get legendary gear. Unless anet comes up with a huge pvp overhaul soon and a new expansion, this game is considered dead to me. Yes, before you say it, I will "just leave and play something else dude", and might not come back. The thing is, im not the only one with this sentiment and many are going to start leaving the game unless they fix pvp.

Comments

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    terraria 1.4 in 2 days Pog

  • VoidNard.7206VoidNard.7206 Member ✭✭✭

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    Seems playable to me, always has, and I've heard this exact same tune since the day I started playing this game. You're welcome to your opinion. Balance is obviously not perfect and the degree to which we feel the impact of that is completely subjective. I'm not struggling in PvP and I just kept playing more or less the same build I used before 2/25. What else can I say but that overtuned and undertuned specs are a thing and always will be. Get used to it! There is no balance utopia and even if objectively such a feat could be achieved, half the player base would still be complaining about balance!

    I think the lack of additional game modes along with a pretty casual, mostly anti-PvP playerbase (chicken or egg on that one, though?) is what dooms PvP in this game. For me the combat is pretty excellent and while I think some things are pretty ridiculous, this isn't my first MMO. PvP balance is always pretty sketchy in MMOs, from what I've seen. This one is certainly better than I remember from my WoW days (admittedly, it's been many years). They used to call it rock/paper/scissors (e.g. rogue beats warlock, warlock beats mage, etc.). Is that even attempting to balance? GW2 is way better than that, in my estimation. Some classes feel tougher to fight than others, but I can't think of any where I'm like "I don't stand a chance against this guy and he's not even as good as I am!" where WoW seemed intentionally designed that way.

    In any event, what you want is pretty much what they're in the process of doing. 2/25 was a big change. I think what I can agree with at this point is that they really need to accelerate the pace here. They are clearly not meeting player expectations in terms of the pace of balance releases. It feels like more of the same from ANet, and that is pretty disappointing given what was promised.

    I'm enjoying PvP, ANet! But I was enjoying it before you made all of these changes. That doesn't seem productive. What's the plan here?

    Tell me all about how getting one shot in pvp after missing a dodge is excellent combat

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @VoidNard.7206 said:
    The balance in pvp is so bad, and with each new patch, the devs change nothing and make the game worse. They remove all amulets and rune thinking that it fixes anything, meanwhile you still have completely busted professions with tons of balancing problems. Pvp is not fun in any way right now, on top of the fact that matchmaking is pure garbage, theres no reason to play pvp except to get legendary gear. Unless anet comes up with a huge pvp overhaul soon and a new expansion, this game is considered dead to me. Yes, before you say it, I will "just leave and play something else dude", and might not come back. The thing is, im not the only one with this sentiment and many are going to start leaving the game unless they fix pvp.

    +1

    'Situations that are present are there because you allow and tolerate them to continue'

  • VoidNard.7206VoidNard.7206 Member ✭✭✭

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @VoidNard.7206 said:
    The balance in pvp is so bad, and with each new patch, the devs change nothing and make the game worse. They remove all amulets and rune thinking that it fixes anything, meanwhile you still have completely busted professions with tons of balancing problems. Pvp is not fun in any way right now, on top of the fact that matchmaking is pure garbage, theres no reason to play pvp except to get legendary gear. Unless anet comes up with a huge pvp overhaul soon and a new expansion, this game is considered dead to me. Yes, before you say it, I will "just leave and play something else dude", and might not come back. The thing is, im not the only one with this sentiment and many are going to start leaving the game unless they fix pvp.

    +1

    my guess is power creep. I miss pre hots pvp

  • Exedore.6320Exedore.6320 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 15, 2020

    It's like peeling an onion. Lots of layers and they all stink.

    The reason for the persistent problems is that power creep still exists. When you nerf everything across the board, the stuff which was at the top before is still at the top after. PoF elites need redesigns. Power creep on core traits and abilities need rolled back.

    IMO, the 15-30% damage and healing nerf was the wrong call. Nerf amulet stats and access to might stacks instead.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @VoidNard.7206 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    Seems playable to me, always has, and I've heard this exact same tune since the day I started playing this game. You're welcome to your opinion. Balance is obviously not perfect and the degree to which we feel the impact of that is completely subjective. I'm not struggling in PvP and I just kept playing more or less the same build I used before 2/25. What else can I say but that overtuned and undertuned specs are a thing and always will be. Get used to it! There is no balance utopia and even if objectively such a feat could be achieved, half the player base would still be complaining about balance!

    I think the lack of additional game modes along with a pretty casual, mostly anti-PvP playerbase (chicken or egg on that one, though?) is what dooms PvP in this game. For me the combat is pretty excellent and while I think some things are pretty ridiculous, this isn't my first MMO. PvP balance is always pretty sketchy in MMOs, from what I've seen. This one is certainly better than I remember from my WoW days (admittedly, it's been many years). They used to call it rock/paper/scissors (e.g. rogue beats warlock, warlock beats mage, etc.). Is that even attempting to balance? GW2 is way better than that, in my estimation. Some classes feel tougher to fight than others, but I can't think of any where I'm like "I don't stand a chance against this guy and he's not even as good as I am!" where WoW seemed intentionally designed that way.

    In any event, what you want is pretty much what they're in the process of doing. 2/25 was a big change. I think what I can agree with at this point is that they really need to accelerate the pace here. They are clearly not meeting player expectations in terms of the pace of balance releases. It feels like more of the same from ANet, and that is pretty disappointing given what was promised.

    I'm enjoying PvP, ANet! But I was enjoying it before you made all of these changes. That doesn't seem productive. What's the plan here?

    Tell me all about how getting one shot in pvp after missing a dodge is excellent combat

    Like I said, it wasn't a problem for me. The so-called "1-shot" meta prior to 2/25 was a blast, honestly. I felt very comfortable in that meta and I am very comfortable in this one, too. I play casually, but I've always played at plat level since my first season back during HoT. You're welcome to your opinion, but you aren't changing mine. GW2 combat feels great to me and always has and the balance, while not perfect, is better than it was when I played WoW. Maybe my frame of reference is lacking your degree of refinement?

    Regardless, I already said I agree with calling on ANet to start producing on this one. What more do you want? I could pour you a drink and we could talk about our pain, maybe? Scotch sounds good, doesn't it?

  • wevh.2903wevh.2903 Member ✭✭
    edited May 15, 2020

    @Exedore.6320 said:
    It's like peeling an onion. Lots of layers and they all stink.

    The reason for the persistent problems is that power creep still exists. When you nerf everything across the board, the stuff which was at the top before is still at the top after. PoF elites need redesigns. Power creep on core traits and abilities need rolled back.

    IMO, the 15-30% damage and healing nerf was the wrong call. Nerf amulet stats and access to might stacks instead.

    Yeee lets make pvp a bunch of unkillable aoe spam builds because ppl cant dodge stuff thats goig to make the game so much fun :)

  • VoidNard.7206VoidNard.7206 Member ✭✭✭

    @wevh.2903 said:

    @Exedore.6320 said:
    It's like peeling an onion. Lots of layers and they all stink.

    The reason for the persistent problems is that power creep still exists. When you nerf everything across the board, the stuff which was at the top before is still at the top after. PoF elites need redesigns. Power creep on core traits and abilities need rolled back.

    IMO, the 15-30% damage and healing nerf was the wrong call. Nerf amulet stats and access to might stacks instead.

    Yeee lets make pvp a bunch of unkillable aoe spam builds because ppl cant dodge stuff thats goig to make the game so much fun :)

    I agree, spam aoe sucks to play. Its true that they arent nerfing the right things though, and I would argue they arent nerfing enough things either

  • Khalisto.5780Khalisto.5780 Member ✭✭✭✭

    i miss the old meta where i could get necros from 100% shroud to 20% life

  • Khalisto.5780Khalisto.5780 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aktium.9506 said:

    @Khalisto.5780 said:
    i miss the old meta where i could get necros from 100% shroud to 20% life

    I'm not so sure I miss the grouped stealth bursts where I'm downed before the models of the enemies even load properly at first midfight.

    i liked post patch till a month ago, when were facing just condi fb, rev and necro

    running non port spot to non port spot to not get 1 shot in first mid fight was honestly better than fighting all those condi builds wherever you go

    now really, whats not condi or doesn't have a strong condi variation?

    ele - tempest and LR, you still can play fire weaver, but it's not really close to what other consdi builds are doing

    mesmer - weak but condi is the only option

    necro - weaker than it was but still strong and condi

    ranger - pewpew, pets and a rising dd sb condi build quickly rising since ot was posted here

    Engi - power, not sure if there's a viable condi variation

    thief - the most opressive condo build atm, with a good power option

    warrior - power, you don't see many of them tho

    guardian - pretty much all specs have a variation of a burning build, with also viable power builds in all specs

    rev - strong condi and power build, with the condi build being noob friendly amd strong against most of other condi builds

  • Elmo Benchwarmer.3025Elmo Benchwarmer.3025 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Less than 24 hours ago I had no problems playing PvP?

  • fumcheg.1936fumcheg.1936 Member ✭✭

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @VoidNard.7206 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    Seems playable to me, always has, and I've heard this exact same tune since the day I started playing this game. You're welcome to your opinion. Balance is obviously not perfect and the degree to which we feel the impact of that is completely subjective. I'm not struggling in PvP and I just kept playing more or less the same build I used before 2/25. What else can I say but that overtuned and undertuned specs are a thing and always will be. Get used to it! There is no balance utopia and even if objectively such a feat could be achieved, half the player base would still be complaining about balance!

    I think the lack of additional game modes along with a pretty casual, mostly anti-PvP playerbase (chicken or egg on that one, though?) is what dooms PvP in this game. For me the combat is pretty excellent and while I think some things are pretty ridiculous, this isn't my first MMO. PvP balance is always pretty sketchy in MMOs, from what I've seen. This one is certainly better than I remember from my WoW days (admittedly, it's been many years). They used to call it rock/paper/scissors (e.g. rogue beats warlock, warlock beats mage, etc.). Is that even attempting to balance? GW2 is way better than that, in my estimation. Some classes feel tougher to fight than others, but I can't think of any where I'm like "I don't stand a chance against this guy and he's not even as good as I am!" where WoW seemed intentionally designed that way.

    In any event, what you want is pretty much what they're in the process of doing. 2/25 was a big change. I think what I can agree with at this point is that they really need to accelerate the pace here. They are clearly not meeting player expectations in terms of the pace of balance releases. It feels like more of the same from ANet, and that is pretty disappointing given what was promised.

    I'm enjoying PvP, ANet! But I was enjoying it before you made all of these changes. That doesn't seem productive. What's the plan here?

    Tell me all about how getting one shot in pvp after missing a dodge is excellent combat

    Like I said, it wasn't a problem for me. The so-called "1-shot" meta prior to 2/25 was a blast, honestly. I felt very comfortable in that meta and I am very comfortable in this one, too. I play casually, but I've always played at plat level since my first season back during HoT. You're welcome to your opinion, but you aren't changing mine. GW2 combat feels great to me and always has and the balance, while not perfect, is better than it was when I played WoW. Maybe my frame of reference is lacking your degree of refinement?

    Regardless, I already said I agree with calling on ANet to start producing on this one. What more do you want? I could pour you a drink and we could talk about our pain, maybe? Scotch sounds good, doesn't it?

    Which class do you play?

  • ZeteCommander.4937ZeteCommander.4937 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 15, 2020

    Dev don't understand that balance and destruction are different concepts. They would rather destroy the popular and useful builds than optimize the outdated ones

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 15, 2020

    @VoidNard.7206 said:
    The balance in pvp is so bad

    balance should be bad. If you with non meta class/build try kill 1 vs 1 same skill meta warrior or reaper this is ony yours fail. Use meta biuld or chose teamplay-game .

    and with each new patch, the devs change nothing and make the game worse.

    I accept balance patches as changes for changes, and nothing more. In this way of vision I don't feels bad. Try changes your vision.

    They remove all amulets and rune thinking that it fixes anything,

    again, they don't try fix. It just changes for changes. If you think about this so - no any balance change give you trouble.

    with tons of balancing problems.

    I don't wait any some magic balance. Take any class different, and don't wait that sword 1 on one class is equal sword 1 on other class. It can solve yours problem.

    Pvp is not fun in any way right now,

    it is fun, if you don't wait from gameplay some unreal balance.

    theres no reason to play pvp except to get legendary gear.

    have a lot of legendary sets, still playing. It is fun.

    Unless anet comes up with a huge pvp overhaul soon and a new expansion

    if wait some changes and some balance from exp you will fail 125%.

    this game is considered dead to me.

    it ok, Try play other game. do it time to time. After some time I am come back and happy.

    unless they fix pvp.

    make only one class for pvp, off traits, give only one amulets, and one wepon set ? this?

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • VoidNard.7206VoidNard.7206 Member ✭✭✭

    @lare.5129 said:

    @VoidNard.7206 said:
    The balance in pvp is so bad

    balance should be bad. If you with non meta class/build try kill 1 vs 1 same skill meta warrior or reaper this is ony yours fail. Use meta biuld or chose teamplay-game .

    and with each new patch, the devs change nothing and make the game worse.

    I accept balance patches as changes for changes, and nothing more. In this way of vision I don't feels bad. Try changes your vision.

    They remove all amulets and rune thinking that it fixes anything,

    again, they don't try fix. It just changes for changes. If you think about this so - no any balance change give you trouble.

    with tons of balancing problems.

    I don't wait any some magic balance. Take any class different, and don't wait that sword 1 on one class is equal sword 1 on other class. It can solve yours problem.

    Pvp is not fun in any way right now,

    it is fun, if you don't wait from gameplay some unreal balance.

    theres no reason to play pvp except to get legendary gear.

    have a lot of legendary sets, still playing. It is fun.

    Unless anet comes up with a huge pvp overhaul soon and a new expansion

    if wait some changes and some balance from exp you will fail 125%.

    this game is considered dead to me.

    it ok, Try play other game. do it time to time. After some time I am come back and happy.

    unless they fix pvp.

    make only one class for pvp, off traits, give only one amulets, and one wepon set ? this?

    neckbeard commenting

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ZeteCommander.4937 said:
    Dev don't understand that balance and destruction are different concepts. They would rather destroy the popular and useful builds than optimize the outdated ones

    This^ majority think games direction is going in the more positive direction which if were talking JUST balance of MOST of the roster I'd agree but as a whole putting all other factors aside for this one goal will ruin the game and decrease its population faster than balance ever would. If games fun but balance isn't great the game will still have far more active players than if its better balanced but not fun to play.

  • HAsAsIN.6724HAsAsIN.6724 Member ✭✭

    i'm part of the Nintendo generation and i don't favor this "balancing" bs.

    put all the skills in a firmware and "flash" that once a year.

  • Core necro, condi mirage, burn guard and immob druid all need to be nerfed.
    Do this and the game will be fine.

    solemn

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:
    Core necro, condi mirage, burn guard and immob druid all need to be nerfed.
    Do this and the game will be fine.

    rip cmirage
    PepeHands it never ends

  • SoulSlavocracy.4902SoulSlavocracy.4902 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 15, 2020

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:
    Core necro, condi mirage, burn guard and immob druid all need to be nerfed.
    Do this and the game will be fine.

    rip cmirage
    PepeHands it never ends

    No really, I understand that the average condi mirage player would disagree, but have you fought a seriously competent one? Unless you're running antitoxin fire weaver with infinite cleanse uptime YOU CANNOT WIN 1v1. Simply, you won't. Not if they're good and know what they're doing. And that's the definition of OP.

    edit: mind you I'm talking about WvW roaming. Guess I should've mentioned that.

    solemn

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:
    Core necro, condi mirage, burn guard and immob druid all need to be nerfed.
    Do this and the game will be fine.

    rip cmirage
    PepeHands it never ends

    No really, I understand that the average condi mirage player would disagree, but have you fought a seriously competent one? Unless you're running antitoxin fire weaver with infinite cleanse uptime YOU CANNOT WIN 1v1. Simply, you won't. Not if they're good and know what they're doing. And that's the definition of OP.

    Nah, you can win against CMirage pretty easily in a 1v1. Its really high damage, but its also really squishy and without a lot of defenses. If you have the usual 2 burst condi cleanses (that you need to play anyway), then you can survive the initial burst, then crush the CMirage on the backswing.

  • @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:
    Core necro, condi mirage, burn guard and immob druid all need to be nerfed.
    Do this and the game will be fine.

    rip cmirage
    PepeHands it never ends

    No really, I understand that the average condi mirage player would disagree, but have you fought a seriously competent one? Unless you're running antitoxin fire weaver with infinite cleanse uptime YOU CANNOT WIN 1v1. Simply, you won't. Not if they're good and know what they're doing. And that's the definition of OP.

    Nah, you can win against CMirage pretty easily in a 1v1. Its really high damage, but its also really squishy and without a lot of defenses. If you have the usual 2 burst condi cleanses (that you need to play anyway), then you can survive the initial burst, then crush the CMirage on the backswing.

    Theoretically yes but try that out on a melee class. Hard to just burst them down when they condi spam, invuln, evade, then teleport/stealth, all the while spamming condis. It's not easy to counter by any means unless you're running a build designed to counter it.

    solemn

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:
    Core necro, condi mirage, burn guard and immob druid all need to be nerfed.
    Do this and the game will be fine.

    rip cmirage
    PepeHands it never ends

    No really, I understand that the average condi mirage player would disagree, but have you fought a seriously competent one? Unless you're running antitoxin fire weaver with infinite cleanse uptime YOU CANNOT WIN 1v1. Simply, you won't. Not if they're good and know what they're doing. And that's the definition of OP.

    Nah, you can win against CMirage pretty easily in a 1v1. Its really high damage, but its also really squishy and without a lot of defenses. If you have the usual 2 burst condi cleanses (that you need to play anyway), then you can survive the initial burst, then crush the CMirage on the backswing.

    Theoretically yes but try that out on a melee class. Hard to just burst them down when they condi spam, invuln, evade, then teleport/stealth, all the while spamming condis. It's not easy to counter by any means unless you're running a build designed to counter it.

    Its really not much different with a melee class. Their defenses are low, and you can strike em once theyre down. And melee classes have plenty of dashes and blinks to get ontop of em.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 15, 2020

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:
    Core necro, condi mirage, burn guard and immob druid all need to be nerfed.
    Do this and the game will be fine.

    rip cmirage
    PepeHands it never ends

    No really, I understand that the average condi mirage player would disagree, but have you fought a seriously competent one? Unless you're running antitoxin fire weaver with infinite cleanse uptime YOU CANNOT WIN 1v1. Simply, you won't. Not if they're good and know what they're doing. And that's the definition of OP.

    edit: mind you I'm talking about WvW roaming. Guess I should've mentioned that.

    why are you posting on "PVP IS UNPLAYABLE" post about wvw?
    speaking of wvw, I have never died to condi mesmer in wvw, NEVER. why? I can hold w and walk away, nobody forces me to fight them, and in large scale they are useless anyways ( other then portal and mb some stealth usage )

    speaking of pvp mirage as "duelist" spec doesnt even have winning 1v1s against most if not all meta classes in the game, they have the least ammount of defences out of all classes, and their only hope of winning is going balls to the wall on offensive, dropping all they have on you and hope you make mistakes and die, if you dont then they are screwed.

  • @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:
    Core necro, condi mirage, burn guard and immob druid all need to be nerfed.
    Do this and the game will be fine.

    rip cmirage
    PepeHands it never ends

    No really, I understand that the average condi mirage player would disagree, but have you fought a seriously competent one? Unless you're running antitoxin fire weaver with infinite cleanse uptime YOU CANNOT WIN 1v1. Simply, you won't. Not if they're good and know what they're doing. And that's the definition of OP.

    edit: mind you I'm talking about WvW roaming. Guess I should've mentioned that.

    why are you posting on "PVP IS UNPLAYABLE" post about wvw?
    speaking of wvw, I have never died to condi mesmer in wvw, NEVER. why? I can hold w and walk away, nobody forces me to fight them, and in large scale they are useless anyways ( other then portal and mb some stealth usage )

    speaking of pvp mirage as "duelist" spec doesnt even have winning 1v1s against most if not all meta classes in the game, they have the least ammount of defences out of all classes, and their only hope of winning is going balls to the wall on offensive, dropping all they have on you and hope you make mistakes and die, if you dont then they are screwed.

    So whenever you encounter a mesmer in WvW running no food, you just assume it's condi and run away? Sounds like fun ... I just switch to fire weaver and can beat them 90% of the time lol. They're not unkillable, they're just overpowered and you have to run specific builds to do it. Which is silly ... no? And that's all I'm making a point of.

    I made a comment pointing out 4 problematic builds. They're still problematic. Change my mind.

    @UNOwen.7132 said:
    Its really not much different with a melee class. Their defenses are low, and you can strike em once theyre down. And melee classes have plenty of dashes and blinks to get ontop of em.

    Yeah, I still feel like you're describing average to above-average mesmer players. I don't generally have issues taking down mesmers whether they're power or condi, but if the player is very good at condi mirage, they remain in invulnerability/evade frames while bursting you down. This is not a problem on fire weaver because I can simply out-cleanse it, but I don't want to be forced to play fire weaver. I like build diversity. I'm sure it won't take long for someone to jump in and predictably say I'm bad at the game but whatever. I said what I had to say.

    solemn

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 no, I take 0,1s to look at their weapons and instantly know 80% of their build.
    every single class can make itself unkillable in wvw, immagine holo.
    that takes 50% endurance trait, on top of having 2 dodges, with 40% endurance food and perma vigor for 50% endurance regen.... ON top of toughness/vitality gear...
    EVERY class can do this, be it thief, rev,guard,ele,mes or whatever.
    and with actually fighting mesmers, I dont think I have ever met a single roaming condi mes, not one. All of them were core power or mirage power.
    but hey, I played wvw for only about 2-3 weeks, mb you can see them once in a month.

  • ZeteCommander.4937ZeteCommander.4937 Member ✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @ZeteCommander.4937 said:
    Dev don't understand that balance and destruction are different concepts. They would rather destroy the popular and useful builds than optimize the outdated ones

    This^ majority think games direction is going in the more positive direction which if were talking JUST balance of MOST of the roster I'd agree but as a whole putting all other factors aside for this one goal will ruin the game and decrease its population faster than balance ever would. If games fun but balance isn't great the game will still have far more active players than if its better balanced but not fun to play.

    Keep this trend. This fake Carnival will expose problems. You just don't realize how many players are leaving the game.Those who are still playing don't think it's bad now. Most players who leave don't even bother to say goodbye

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @fumcheg.1936 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @VoidNard.7206 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    Seems playable to me, always has, and I've heard this exact same tune since the day I started playing this game. You're welcome to your opinion. Balance is obviously not perfect and the degree to which we feel the impact of that is completely subjective. I'm not struggling in PvP and I just kept playing more or less the same build I used before 2/25. What else can I say but that overtuned and undertuned specs are a thing and always will be. Get used to it! There is no balance utopia and even if objectively such a feat could be achieved, half the player base would still be complaining about balance!

    I think the lack of additional game modes along with a pretty casual, mostly anti-PvP playerbase (chicken or egg on that one, though?) is what dooms PvP in this game. For me the combat is pretty excellent and while I think some things are pretty ridiculous, this isn't my first MMO. PvP balance is always pretty sketchy in MMOs, from what I've seen. This one is certainly better than I remember from my WoW days (admittedly, it's been many years). They used to call it rock/paper/scissors (e.g. rogue beats warlock, warlock beats mage, etc.). Is that even attempting to balance? GW2 is way better than that, in my estimation. Some classes feel tougher to fight than others, but I can't think of any where I'm like "I don't stand a chance against this guy and he's not even as good as I am!" where WoW seemed intentionally designed that way.

    In any event, what you want is pretty much what they're in the process of doing. 2/25 was a big change. I think what I can agree with at this point is that they really need to accelerate the pace here. They are clearly not meeting player expectations in terms of the pace of balance releases. It feels like more of the same from ANet, and that is pretty disappointing given what was promised.

    I'm enjoying PvP, ANet! But I was enjoying it before you made all of these changes. That doesn't seem productive. What's the plan here?

    Tell me all about how getting one shot in pvp after missing a dodge is excellent combat

    Like I said, it wasn't a problem for me. The so-called "1-shot" meta prior to 2/25 was a blast, honestly. I felt very comfortable in that meta and I am very comfortable in this one, too. I play casually, but I've always played at plat level since my first season back during HoT. You're welcome to your opinion, but you aren't changing mine. GW2 combat feels great to me and always has and the balance, while not perfect, is better than it was when I played WoW. Maybe my frame of reference is lacking your degree of refinement?

    Regardless, I already said I agree with calling on ANet to start producing on this one. What more do you want? I could pour you a drink and we could talk about our pain, maybe? Scotch sounds good, doesn't it?

    Which class do you play?

    Mostly ele, currently sword weaver, but I have more games played on tempest from HoT.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ZeteCommander.4937 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @ZeteCommander.4937 said:
    Dev don't understand that balance and destruction are different concepts. They would rather destroy the popular and useful builds than optimize the outdated ones

    This^ majority think games direction is going in the more positive direction which if were talking JUST balance of MOST of the roster I'd agree but as a whole putting all other factors aside for this one goal will ruin the game and decrease its population faster than balance ever would. If games fun but balance isn't great the game will still have far more active players than if its better balanced but not fun to play.

    Keep this trend. This fake Carnival will expose problems. You just don't realize how many players are leaving the game.Those who are still playing don't think it's bad now. Most players who leave don't even bother to say goodbye

    I dont doubt it, I left it 3 weeks ago after 6 years of playing it, just couldn't take the lazy balancing anymore. The devs take far to long to fix anything and ignore far to many things in this game. Hell the all but deleted passive traits that were staples in builds and it's been over 6 months and their still placeholders. Skills have been bugged for yrs even tho the players give feedback continually on them ie revs hammer and wars gs skills. I only frequent the forums cuz at this point its enjoyable to watch the game die slowly, devs are doing a good job at it lol, makes me glad I havent logged in everytime I come to the forums lol.

  • Luthan.5236Luthan.5236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The interesting thing is: Those balancing patches they need to make (cause everyone always wants something else to get re-balanced) probably require them to use manpower to think about that stuff + also to test it internally.

    Leads to less time for more maps and game modes. Which leads to less new players getting interested. (If all PvP gets is some changes in balancing.) And less players getting interested ... means they'd use less developers and manpower/time to develop PvP.

    Some vicious circle. And always having to focus on balancing because people cry (now they want A and if they get A they want the opposite cause A is too strong suddenly) keeps this up if the resources need to be spent on balancing.


    My personal experience: I'm a low-mid tier skilled player in the EU and I play core engineer (cause I like to use 3 of the core trait lines) just "for fun" not with keeping rating or wins in mind. (Though imbalanced games tend to get boring but the matchmaker often can make balanced matches where it considers that my builds are weak but both teams end up with same weak-mid-tier people.)

    I can have my fun. I don't even try to use some few condition cleanse cause it would not be much help. (I'd have to change the build to some style I don't think is "fun".) I die to conditon spammers quicker. But I still can play strategically and run to nodes that are empty or try to play team fights and not 1 vs. 1 or x vs. y (y > x). Helping in team fight where my team outnumbers the enemy or it is the same amount of players (2 vs. 2 or so) my build still plays pretty well and fun in the low/mid tier and it is still "playable".

    Higher skilled guys probably can just play the "meta" and the stuff that is "in" and "strong" if they care about keeping their high rating. I mean ... they are skilled enough to do so and to know that is strong. If you say it is just "bunkering" and stuff like that ... then do the same thing. And use 5 man teams and play unranked with pre-made team. Maybe it will get more fun. I'm sure premade 5 man team can try different strategies than 2x2 duo queue + 1 random quy in ranked. (Cause it is still about team play. )

  • @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    every single class can make itself unkillable in wvw, immagine holo.
    that takes 50% endurance trait, on top of having 2 dodges, with 40% endurance food and perma vigor for 50% endurance regen.... ON top of toughness/vitality gear...

    You do know there is a cap on endurance regen right?

    I think what you meant to say was having energy sigil + adventure rune. Literally no point in having vigor or endurance food since the max gain is 100% endurance regen.

  • Tayga.3192Tayga.3192 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 16, 2020

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:
    I think what you meant to say was having energy sigil + adventure rune. Literally no point in having vigor or endurance food since the max gain is 100% endurance regen.

    How do they stack with each other?
    I think food is useless there, and vigor + trait is 100% faster?

  • @Tayga.3192 said:

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:
    I think what you meant to say was having energy sigil + adventure rune. Literally no point in having vigor or endurance food since the max gain is 100% endurance regen.

    How do they stack with each other?
    I think food is useless there, and vigor + trait is 100% faster?

    Of course, since food is 40%, if you really want that min-max you would obviously go vigor+trait for 100%

    But really, good players aren't counting pennies if they got the Benjamin's. If you got vigor procs, than that's all you need if you have the trait. If you got vigor and the food, then you don't really need the trait. If you got the food and the trait, then you don't really need the vigor procs.

  • @VoidNard.7206 said:
    my guess is power creep. I miss pre hots pvp

    Pre hots is very overrated. Mantra Mes was current condi thief, cele ele facerolls and wins most duels, people pretend GS/hammer warr is really good when he's just rampage and allowed to play once every few minutes (Cele ele had blind spam if he wanted), ranger didn't exist, NOBODY cared about mediwarrior, and people pretended rifle engi was good just like they pretend condi druid is a threat now.

  • jssc.8053jssc.8053 Member ✭✭

    I do not understand why people instantly go to "nerf X Y and Z" it would be just better to buff stuff. Trying to nerf the way might and condis and what not is what got us in this mess to begin with. Idon't know if people remember but stuff like Stability used to work a lot different from the way it is now. I'm still surprised that with the damage increases, we still have yet to have charterer with more then 40k+ hp. Most MMORPG fix the problem with power scaling (aka increased damage) by just increasing hp. Because reworking all the skills and every thing take a very long time and cannot just be rushed. Hell WoW a game over 15 years old is only now finally lowering hp and stats damage and levesl in Shadowlands. It took them 15 years and a new expansion thats not even out yet to finally attempt to fix all the huge confusing numbers you see due to power creep.

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 18, 2020

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @ZeteCommander.4937 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @ZeteCommander.4937 said:
    Dev don't understand that balance and destruction are different concepts. They would rather destroy the popular and useful builds than optimize the outdated ones

    This^ majority think games direction is going in the more positive direction which if were talking JUST balance of MOST of the roster I'd agree but as a whole putting all other factors aside for this one goal will ruin the game and decrease its population faster than balance ever would. If games fun but balance isn't great the game will still have far more active players than if its better balanced but not fun to play.

    Keep this trend. This fake Carnival will expose problems. You just don't realize how many players are leaving the game.Those who are still playing don't think it's bad now. Most players who leave don't even bother to say goodbye

    I dont doubt it, I left it 3 weeks ago after 6 years of playing it, just couldn't take the lazy balancing anymore. The devs take far to long to fix anything and ignore far to many things in this game. Hell the all but deleted passive traits that were staples in builds and it's been over 6 months and their still placeholders. Skills have been bugged for yrs even tho the players give feedback continually on them ie revs hammer and wars gs skills. I only frequent the forums cuz at this point its enjoyable to watch the game die slowly, devs are doing a good job at it lol, makes me glad I havent logged in everytime I come to the forums lol.

    Part of it is a mix of stuff

    so-called "OP Class" gets nerfed then they nerf again and never fix the problem leaving a huge gaping hole where it no longer functions correctly. It might not have functioned that well before, but now it's not even functioning on the player side who plays said class, and it's left like that for years.

    This has happened as well in wow, not just guild wars 2. Nerfing just reveals how bad a class is when it comes to design.

    Sometimes also nerfing isn't the answer, and Anet needs to figure out what really needs nerf, and what simply needs some small effect that says nuke coming or something.

    I don't think nerfing quickly is a good idea, as sometimes we need to figure out what needs it and what doesn't. People complain, but the nerfing of damage was needed, it was way extreme and only people who wanted necros to be free kills like that kinda thing, because necros couldn't survive in high 1 shot DPS metas.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.