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Balance Update June 2020


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@fumcheg.1936 said:

@hotte in space.2158 said:1) Power rev is too strong and condi rev is just ridiculous. Braindead sustain+high damage+good mobility.No balancing/hotfix for 3 months now, great job dev team^^2) Necro the same. High sustain+high damage. Has access to perma swiftness and fear needs to get nerfed too.3) Condi thief should not run around like this. After years, stealth still seems to be the only spamable ability. Why?4) Except guards, nearly all classes have too much mobility.5) Overpowered classes affect unbalanced matchmaking.6) Only good thing about op classes is, that many players dont know how to play it to the max.

There are other issues as well, but these are most obvious ones. I always defended the new dev team, but I start asking myself now,if they even want a balanced PvP mode at all. Although PvP improved pretty much, compared to times of powercreep,generating hopes and then disappointing people is a bad thing ! ! !

Condi thief doesn't have spammable stealth. Where do people get this from?

Probably because, to them, any thief that uses stealth more than once in a fight is “spamming it.” Also known as “a thief who is still alive and contributes to their team by not being dead.”

And a piece of nonsense like this one calls into question the rest of the list.

This here is the reason I don-t want to play this game. Nonsense nerfs that kill classes and ANET listening to them.

If people had their way Necro would simply be a dummy unable to move unable to attack and simply dies and gives free kills so people can feel good condi thieves would be useless as well and revs too.

Personally i hope anet doesn-t listen to these kind of people.

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@Lighter.5631 said:

@hotte in space.2158 said:1) Power rev is too strong and condi rev is just ridiculous. Braindead sustain+high damage+good mobility.No balancing/hotfix for 3 months now, great job dev team^^2) Necro the same. High sustain+high damage. Has access to perma swiftness and fear needs to get nerfed too.3) Condi thief should not run around like this. After years, stealth still seems to be the only spamable ability. Why?4) Except guards, nearly all classes have too much mobility.5) Overpowered classes affect unbalanced matchmaking.6) Only good thing about op classes is, that many players dont know how to play it to the max.

There are other issues as well, but these are most obvious ones. I always defended the new dev team, but I start asking myself now,if they even want a balanced PvP mode at all. Although PvP improved pretty much, compared to times of powercreep,generating hopes and then disappointing people is a bad thing ! ! !

Condi thief doesn't have spammable stealth. Where do people get this from?

..dagger 5

Well P/D rotation after steal is usually going to be Shadow Strike followed by repeater which is 6 initiative. So out of 15 initiative that leaves them with 9. That is provided they hit their shadow strike, and also dont use dancing dagger. At best they can use it once IF IT HITS for a lousy 3 seconds of steal which they will make use out of with sneak attack which debuffs them with reveal and leaves them with little to 0 initiative.

BUT WAIT IF SHADOW STRIKE HITS ARENT THEY OUT OF MELEE RANGE?

WHY YES THEY ARE! Which renders CnD completely useless as a way to access stealth.

TL;DR you are so hilariously wrong.

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@omgdracula.6345 said:

@hotte in space.2158 said:1) Power rev is too strong and condi rev is just ridiculous. Braindead sustain+high damage+good mobility.No balancing/hotfix for 3 months now, great job dev team^^2) Necro the same. High sustain+high damage. Has access to perma swiftness and fear needs to get nerfed too.3) Condi thief should not run around like this. After years, stealth still seems to be the only spamable ability. Why?4) Except guards, nearly all classes have too much mobility.5) Overpowered classes affect unbalanced matchmaking.6) Only good thing about op classes is, that many players dont know how to play it to the max.

There are other issues as well, but these are most obvious ones. I always defended the new dev team, but I start asking myself now,if they even want a balanced PvP mode at all. Although PvP improved pretty much, compared to times of powercreep,generating hopes and then disappointing people is a bad thing ! ! !

Condi thief doesn't have spammable stealth. Where do people get this from?

..dagger 5

Well P/D rotation after steal is usually going to be Shadow Strike followed by repeater which is 6 initiative. So out of 15 initiative that leaves them with 9. That is provided they hit their shadow strike, and also dont use dancing dagger. At best they can use it once IF IT HITS for a lousy 3 seconds of steal which they will make use out of with sneak attack which debuffs them with reveal and leaves them with little to 0 initiative.

BUT WAIT IF SHADOW STRIKE HITS ARENT THEY OUT OF MELEE RANGE?

WHY YES THEY ARE! Which renders CnD completely useless as a way to access stealth.

TL;DR you are so hilariously wrong.

...i don't need you to teach me how to p/d thief

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@Lighter.5631 said:

@hotte in space.2158 said:1) Power rev is too strong and condi rev is just ridiculous. Braindead sustain+high damage+good mobility.No balancing/hotfix for 3 months now, great job dev team^^2) Necro the same. High sustain+high damage. Has access to perma swiftness and fear needs to get nerfed too.3) Condi thief should not run around like this. After years, stealth still seems to be the only spamable ability. Why?4) Except guards, nearly all classes have too much mobility.5) Overpowered classes affect unbalanced matchmaking.6) Only good thing about op classes is, that many players dont know how to play it to the max.

There are other issues as well, but these are most obvious ones. I always defended the new dev team, but I start asking myself now,if they even want a balanced PvP mode at all. Although PvP improved pretty much, compared to times of powercreep,generating hopes and then disappointing people is a bad thing ! ! !

Condi thief doesn't have spammable stealth. Where do people get this from?

..dagger 5

Well P/D rotation after steal is usually going to be Shadow Strike followed by repeater which is 6 initiative. So out of 15 initiative that leaves them with 9. That is provided they hit their shadow strike, and also dont use dancing dagger. At best they can use it once IF IT HITS for a lousy 3 seconds of steal which they will make use out of with sneak attack which debuffs them with reveal and leaves them with little to 0 initiative.

BUT WAIT IF SHADOW STRIKE HITS ARENT THEY OUT OF MELEE RANGE?

WHY YES THEY ARE! Which renders CnD completely useless as a way to access stealth.

TL;DR you are so hilariously wrong.

...i don't need you to teach me how to p/d thief

Duh. Nobody needs to teach anybody how to p/d thief, because it's one of the easiest thief builds to play.

But he's still correct, that's not a stealth spam.

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@fumcheg.1936 said:

@hotte in space.2158 said:1) Power rev is too strong and condi rev is just ridiculous. Braindead sustain+high damage+good mobility.No balancing/hotfix for 3 months now, great job dev team^^2) Necro the same. High sustain+high damage. Has access to perma swiftness and fear needs to get nerfed too.3) Condi thief should not run around like this. After years, stealth still seems to be the only spamable ability. Why?4) Except guards, nearly all classes have too much mobility.5) Overpowered classes affect unbalanced matchmaking.6) Only good thing about op classes is, that many players dont know how to play it to the max.

There are other issues as well, but these are most obvious ones. I always defended the new dev team, but I start asking myself now,if they even want a balanced PvP mode at all. Although PvP improved pretty much, compared to times of powercreep,generating hopes and then disappointing people is a bad thing ! ! !

Condi thief doesn't have spammable stealth. Where do people get this from?

Probably because, to them, any thief that uses stealth more than once in a fight is “spamming it.” Also known as “a thief who is still alive and contributes to their team by not being dead.”

And a piece of nonsense like this one calls into question the rest of the list.

What got me the most was their claims that too many classes BESIDES guardian have too much mobility. Guardian?? Necro is a massive degree slower than guardian so why would they be the baseline when guards have plenty of mobility options??

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@Lighter.5631 said:

@hotte in space.2158 said:1) Power rev is too strong and condi rev is just ridiculous. Braindead sustain+high damage+good mobility.No balancing/hotfix for 3 months now, great job dev team^^2) Necro the same. High sustain+high damage. Has access to perma swiftness and fear needs to get nerfed too.3) Condi thief should not run around like this. After years, stealth still seems to be the only spamable ability. Why?4) Except guards, nearly all classes have too much mobility.5) Overpowered classes affect unbalanced matchmaking.6) Only good thing about op classes is, that many players dont know how to play it to the max.

There are other issues as well, but these are most obvious ones. I always defended the new dev team, but I start asking myself now,if they even want a balanced PvP mode at all. Although PvP improved pretty much, compared to times of powercreep,generating hopes and then disappointing people is a bad thing ! ! !

Condi thief doesn't have spammable stealth. Where do people get this from?

..dagger 5

Well P/D rotation after steal is usually going to be Shadow Strike followed by repeater which is 6 initiative. So out of 15 initiative that leaves them with 9. That is provided they hit their shadow strike, and also dont use dancing dagger. At best they can use it once IF IT HITS for a lousy 3 seconds of steal which they will make use out of with sneak attack which debuffs them with reveal and leaves them with little to 0 initiative.

BUT WAIT IF SHADOW STRIKE HITS ARENT THEY OUT OF MELEE RANGE?

WHY YES THEY ARE! Which renders CnD completely useless as a way to access stealth.

TL;DR you are so hilariously wrong.

...i don't need you to teach me how to p/d thief

Do teachers and professors not correct their students when they are wrong? I would be doing you a disservice if I didn't inform you.

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@Sobx.1758 said:

@hotte in space.2158 said:1) Power rev is too strong and condi rev is just ridiculous. Braindead sustain+high damage+good mobility.No balancing/hotfix for 3 months now, great job dev team^^2) Necro the same. High sustain+high damage. Has access to perma swiftness and fear needs to get nerfed too.3) Condi thief should not run around like this. After years, stealth still seems to be the only spamable ability. Why?4) Except guards, nearly all classes have too much mobility.5) Overpowered classes affect unbalanced matchmaking.6) Only good thing about op classes is, that many players dont know how to play it to the max.

There are other issues as well, but these are most obvious ones. I always defended the new dev team, but I start asking myself now,if they even want a balanced PvP mode at all. Although PvP improved pretty much, compared to times of powercreep,generating hopes and then disappointing people is a bad thing ! ! !

Condi thief doesn't have spammable stealth. Where do people get this from?

..dagger 5

Well P/D rotation after steal is usually going to be Shadow Strike followed by repeater which is 6 initiative. So out of 15 initiative that leaves them with 9. That is provided they hit their shadow strike, and also dont use dancing dagger. At best they can use it once IF IT HITS for a lousy 3 seconds of steal which they will make use out of with sneak attack which debuffs them with reveal and leaves them with little to 0 initiative.

BUT WAIT IF SHADOW STRIKE HITS ARENT THEY OUT OF MELEE RANGE?

WHY YES THEY ARE! Which renders CnD completely useless as a way to access stealth.

TL;DR you are so hilariously wrong.

...i don't need you to teach me how to p/d thief

Duh. Nobody needs to teach anybody how to p/d thief, because it's one of the easiest thief builds to play.

But he's still correct, that's not a stealth spam.

I think P\D is easier than other thief builds even if not focused on conditions. Mainly because it is ranged dps. I don't have to go to melee range and eat all those AoEs on the ground and I can do damage while kiting.Stealth spam that's more like Deadeye. Or Dragon hunter or Ranger with trapper rune.

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@GeneralFailure.3402 said:

@hotte in space.2158 said:1) Power rev is too strong and condi rev is just ridiculous. Braindead sustain+high damage+good mobility.No balancing/hotfix for 3 months now, great job dev team^^2) Necro the same. High sustain+high damage. Has access to perma swiftness and fear needs to get nerfed too.3) Condi thief should not run around like this. After years, stealth still seems to be the only spamable ability. Why?4) Except guards, nearly all classes have too much mobility.5) Overpowered classes affect unbalanced matchmaking.6) Only good thing about op classes is, that many players dont know how to play it to the max.

There are other issues as well, but these are most obvious ones. I always defended the new dev team, but I start asking myself now,if they even want a balanced PvP mode at all. Although PvP improved pretty much, compared to times of powercreep,generating hopes and then disappointing people is a bad thing ! ! !

Condi thief doesn't have spammable stealth. Where do people get this from?

..dagger 5

Well P/D rotation after steal is usually going to be Shadow Strike followed by repeater which is 6 initiative. So out of 15 initiative that leaves them with 9. That is provided they hit their shadow strike, and also dont use dancing dagger. At best they can use it once IF IT HITS for a lousy 3 seconds of steal which they will make use out of with sneak attack which debuffs them with reveal and leaves them with little to 0 initiative.

BUT WAIT IF SHADOW STRIKE HITS ARENT THEY OUT OF MELEE RANGE?

WHY YES THEY ARE! Which renders CnD completely useless as a way to access stealth.

TL;DR you are so hilariously wrong.

...i don't need you to teach me how to p/d thief

Duh. Nobody needs to teach anybody how to p/d thief, because it's one of the easiest thief builds to play.

But he's still correct, that's not a stealth spam.

I think P\D is easier than other thief builds even if not focused on conditions. Mainly because it is ranged dps. I don't have to go to melee range and eat all those AoEs on the ground and I can do damage while kiting.Stealth spam that's more like Deadeye. Or Dragon hunter or Ranger with trapper rune.

And how are you actually goning to do damage if you are not going to go melee range?

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@fumcheg.1936 said:

@hotte in space.2158 said:1) Power rev is too strong and condi rev is just ridiculous. Braindead sustain+high damage+good mobility.No balancing/hotfix for 3 months now, great job dev team^^2) Necro the same. High sustain+high damage. Has access to perma swiftness and fear needs to get nerfed too.3) Condi thief should not run around like this. After years, stealth still seems to be the only spamable ability. Why?4) Except guards, nearly all classes have too much mobility.5) Overpowered classes affect unbalanced matchmaking.6) Only good thing about op classes is, that many players dont know how to play it to the max.

There are other issues as well, but these are most obvious ones. I always defended the new dev team, but I start asking myself now,if they even want a balanced PvP mode at all. Although PvP improved pretty much, compared to times of powercreep,generating hopes and then disappointing people is a bad thing ! ! !

Condi thief doesn't have spammable stealth. Where do people get this from?

..dagger 5

Well P/D rotation after steal is usually going to be Shadow Strike followed by repeater which is 6 initiative. So out of 15 initiative that leaves them with 9. That is provided they hit their shadow strike, and also dont use dancing dagger. At best they can use it once IF IT HITS for a lousy 3 seconds of steal which they will make use out of with sneak attack which debuffs them with reveal and leaves them with little to 0 initiative.

BUT WAIT IF SHADOW STRIKE HITS ARENT THEY OUT OF MELEE RANGE?

WHY YES THEY ARE! Which renders CnD completely useless as a way to access stealth.

TL;DR you are so hilariously wrong.

...i don't need you to teach me how to p/d thief

Duh. Nobody needs to teach anybody how to p/d thief, because it's one of the easiest thief builds to play.

But he's still correct, that's not a stealth spam.

I think P\D is easier than other thief builds even if not focused on conditions. Mainly because it is ranged dps. I don't have to go to melee range and eat all those AoEs on the ground and I can do damage while kiting.Stealth spam that's more like Deadeye. Or Dragon hunter or Ranger with trapper rune.

And how are you actually goning to do damage if you are not going to go melee range?

I think they mean they don't have to be primarily in melee range. Once you hit shadowstrike, you don't have to get up close and worry about dying to all the AoE while repeater is available.

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@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@hotte in space.2158 said:1) Power rev is too strong and condi rev is just ridiculous. Braindead sustain+high damage+good mobility.No balancing/hotfix for 3 months now, great job dev team^^2) Necro the same. High sustain+high damage. Has access to perma swiftness and fear needs to get nerfed too.3) Condi thief should not run around like this. After years, stealth still seems to be the only spamable ability. Why?4) Except guards, nearly all classes have too much mobility.5) Overpowered classes affect unbalanced matchmaking.6) Only good thing about op classes is, that many players dont know how to play it to the max.

There are other issues as well, but these are most obvious ones. I always defended the new dev team, but I start asking myself now,if they even want a balanced PvP mode at all. Although PvP improved pretty much, compared to times of powercreep,generating hopes and then disappointing people is a bad thing ! ! !

Condi thief doesn't have spammable stealth. Where do people get this from?

..dagger 5

Well P/D rotation after steal is usually going to be Shadow Strike followed by repeater which is 6 initiative. So out of 15 initiative that leaves them with 9. That is provided they hit their shadow strike, and also dont use dancing dagger. At best they can use it once IF IT HITS for a lousy 3 seconds of steal which they will make use out of with sneak attack which debuffs them with reveal and leaves them with little to 0 initiative.

BUT WAIT IF SHADOW STRIKE HITS ARENT THEY OUT OF MELEE RANGE?

WHY YES THEY ARE! Which renders CnD completely useless as a way to access stealth.

TL;DR you are so hilariously wrong.

...i don't need you to teach me how to p/d thief

Duh. Nobody needs to teach anybody how to p/d thief, because it's one of the easiest thief builds to play.

But he's still correct, that's not a stealth spam.

I think P\D is easier than other thief builds even if not focused on conditions. Mainly because it is ranged dps. I don't have to go to melee range and eat all those AoEs on the ground and I can do damage while kiting.Stealth spam that's more like Deadeye. Or Dragon hunter or Ranger with trapper rune.

And how are you actually goning to do damage if you are not going to go melee range?

I think they mean they don't have to be primarily in melee range. Once you hit shadowstrike, you don't have to get up close and worry about dying to all the AoE while repeater is available.

Well yes, those 4 seconds of happiness...

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@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"hotte in space.2158" said:1) Power rev is too strong and condi rev is just ridiculous. Braindead sustain+high damage+good mobility.No balancing/hotfix for 3 months now, great job dev team^^2) Necro the same. High sustain+high damage. Has access to perma swiftness and fear needs to get nerfed too.3) Condi thief should not run around like this. After years, stealth still seems to be the only spamable ability. Why?4) Except guards, nearly all classes have too much mobility.5) Overpowered classes affect unbalanced matchmaking.6) Only good thing about op classes is, that many players dont know how to play it to the max.

There are other issues as well, but these are most obvious ones. I always defended the new dev team, but I start asking myself now,if they even want a balanced PvP mode at all. Although PvP improved pretty much, compared to times of powercreep,generating hopes and then disappointing people is a bad thing ! ! !

Condi thief doesn't have spammable stealth. Where do people get this from?

..dagger 5

Well P/D rotation after steal is usually going to be Shadow Strike followed by repeater which is 6 initiative. So out of 15 initiative that leaves them with 9. That is provided they hit their shadow strike, and also dont use dancing dagger. At best they can use it once IF IT HITS for a lousy 3 seconds of steal which they will make use out of with sneak attack which debuffs them with reveal and leaves them with little to 0 initiative.

BUT WAIT IF SHADOW STRIKE HITS ARENT THEY OUT OF MELEE RANGE?

WHY YES THEY ARE! Which renders CnD completely useless as a way to access stealth.

TL;DR you are so hilariously wrong.

...i don't need you to teach me how to p/d thief

Duh. Nobody needs to teach anybody how to p/d thief, because it's one of the easiest thief builds to play.

But he's still correct, that's not a stealth spam.

I think P\D is easier than other thief builds even if not focused on conditions. Mainly because it is ranged dps. I don't have to go to melee range and eat all those AoEs on the ground and I can do damage while kiting.Stealth spam that's more like Deadeye. Or Dragon hunter or Ranger with trapper rune.

And how are you actually goning to do damage if you are not going to go melee range?

I think they mean they don't have to be primarily in melee range. Once you hit shadowstrike, you don't have to get up close and worry about dying to all the AoE while repeater is available.

Well yes, those 4 seconds of happiness...

I'm not sure what you're trying to argue about here, are you trying to say that p/d somehow doesn't predominantly/easly deal dmg from range just because it's "gated" behind a single melee attack that sends you away from your target? Or what exactly is the point of your sarcastic "4 seconds of happiness"? I just don't understand.

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@Sobx.1758 said:

@"hotte in space.2158" said:1) Power rev is too strong and condi rev is just ridiculous. Braindead sustain+high damage+good mobility.No balancing/hotfix for 3 months now, great job dev team^^2) Necro the same. High sustain+high damage. Has access to perma swiftness and fear needs to get nerfed too.3) Condi thief should not run around like this. After years, stealth still seems to be the only spamable ability. Why?4) Except guards, nearly all classes have too much mobility.5) Overpowered classes affect unbalanced matchmaking.6) Only good thing about op classes is, that many players dont know how to play it to the max.

There are other issues as well, but these are most obvious ones. I always defended the new dev team, but I start asking myself now,if they even want a balanced PvP mode at all. Although PvP improved pretty much, compared to times of powercreep,generating hopes and then disappointing people is a bad thing ! ! !

Condi thief doesn't have spammable stealth. Where do people get this from?

..dagger 5

Well P/D rotation after steal is usually going to be Shadow Strike followed by repeater which is 6 initiative. So out of 15 initiative that leaves them with 9. That is provided they hit their shadow strike, and also dont use dancing dagger. At best they can use it once IF IT HITS for a lousy 3 seconds of steal which they will make use out of with sneak attack which debuffs them with reveal and leaves them with little to 0 initiative.

BUT WAIT IF SHADOW STRIKE HITS ARENT THEY OUT OF MELEE RANGE?

WHY YES THEY ARE! Which renders CnD completely useless as a way to access stealth.

TL;DR you are so hilariously wrong.

...i don't need you to teach me how to p/d thief

Duh. Nobody needs to teach anybody how to p/d thief, because it's one of the easiest thief builds to play.

But he's still correct, that's not a stealth spam.

I think P\D is easier than other thief builds even if not focused on conditions. Mainly because it is ranged dps. I don't have to go to melee range and eat all those AoEs on the ground and I can do damage while kiting.Stealth spam that's more like Deadeye. Or Dragon hunter or Ranger with trapper rune.

And how are you actually goning to do damage if you are not going to go melee range?

I think they mean they don't have to be primarily in melee range. Once you hit shadowstrike, you don't have to get up close and worry about dying to all the AoE while repeater is available.

Well yes, those 4 seconds of happiness...

I'm not sure what you're trying to argue about here, are you trying to say that p/d somehow doesn't predominantly/easly deal dmg from range just because it's "gated" behind a single melee attack that sends you away from your target? Or what exactly is the point of your sarcastic "4 seconds of happiness"? I just don't understand.

I think his point was you then need to get back into melee range to keep up your ranged pressure from Repeater or to Cloak and Dagger in order to get a Sneak Attack. Otherwise for damage it’s autoattack (not really all that high damage) or Dancing Dagger, which really needs to be under 600 range to hit consistently.

Ranged is easier in GW2 insofar as it tracks targets in most cases and has consistent pressure. Ranged is harder in that you can LoS projectiles or even just move sideways and some slower projectiles will miss. In that sense I will disagree with your assertion that P/D is easy merely because it is ranged.

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@saerni.2584 said:

@"hotte in space.2158" said:1) Power rev is too strong and condi rev is just ridiculous. Braindead sustain+high damage+good mobility.No balancing/hotfix for 3 months now, great job dev team^^2) Necro the same. High sustain+high damage. Has access to perma swiftness and fear needs to get nerfed too.3) Condi thief should not run around like this. After years, stealth still seems to be the only spamable ability. Why?4) Except guards, nearly all classes have too much mobility.5) Overpowered classes affect unbalanced matchmaking.6) Only good thing about op classes is, that many players dont know how to play it to the max.

There are other issues as well, but these are most obvious ones. I always defended the new dev team, but I start asking myself now,if they even want a balanced PvP mode at all. Although PvP improved pretty much, compared to times of powercreep,generating hopes and then disappointing people is a bad thing ! ! !

Condi thief doesn't have spammable stealth. Where do people get this from?

..dagger 5

Well P/D rotation after steal is usually going to be Shadow Strike followed by repeater which is 6 initiative. So out of 15 initiative that leaves them with 9. That is provided they hit their shadow strike, and also dont use dancing dagger. At best they can use it once IF IT HITS for a lousy 3 seconds of steal which they will make use out of with sneak attack which debuffs them with reveal and leaves them with little to 0 initiative.

BUT WAIT IF SHADOW STRIKE HITS ARENT THEY OUT OF MELEE RANGE?

WHY YES THEY ARE! Which renders CnD completely useless as a way to access stealth.

TL;DR you are so hilariously wrong.

...i don't need you to teach me how to p/d thief

Duh. Nobody needs to teach anybody how to p/d thief, because it's one of the easiest thief builds to play.

But he's still correct, that's not a stealth spam.

I think P\D is easier than other thief builds even if not focused on conditions. Mainly because it is ranged dps. I don't have to go to melee range and eat all those AoEs on the ground and I can do damage while kiting.Stealth spam that's more like Deadeye. Or Dragon hunter or Ranger with trapper rune.

And how are you actually goning to do damage if you are not going to go melee range?

I think they mean they don't have to be primarily in melee range. Once you hit shadowstrike, you don't have to get up close and worry about dying to all the AoE while repeater is available.

Well yes, those 4 seconds of happiness...

I'm not sure what you're trying to argue about here, are you trying to say that p/d somehow doesn't predominantly/easly deal dmg from range just because it's "gated" behind a single melee attack that sends you away from your target? Or what exactly is the point of your sarcastic "4 seconds of happiness"? I just don't understand.

I think his point was you then need to get back into melee range to keep up your ranged pressure from Repeater or to Cloak and Dagger in order to get a Sneak Attack. Otherwise for damage it’s autoattack (not really all that high damage) or Dancing Dagger, which really needs to be under 600 range to hit consistently.

Ranged is easier in GW2 insofar as it tracks targets in most cases and has consistent pressure. Ranged is harder in that you can LoS projectiles or even just move sideways and some slower projectiles will miss. In that sense I will disagree with your assertion that P/D is easy merely because it is ranged.

You can't disagree with "my assertion that P/D is easy merely because it is ranged", because I didn't say that.And if his sarcasm was directed at the fact that you need to momentarily be up close just to shadowstep back and then deal dmg at range, then that's a pretty weak point, but k. Sure, it's not p/p 3spam, but that doesn't change what the person he answered to said. It is safer and easier to play than most of the other thief builds.

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@Sobx.1758 said:

@"hotte in space.2158" said:1) Power rev is too strong and condi rev is just ridiculous. Braindead sustain+high damage+good mobility.No balancing/hotfix for 3 months now, great job dev team^^2) Necro the same. High sustain+high damage. Has access to perma swiftness and fear needs to get nerfed too.3) Condi thief should not run around like this. After years, stealth still seems to be the only spamable ability. Why?4) Except guards, nearly all classes have too much mobility.5) Overpowered classes affect unbalanced matchmaking.6) Only good thing about op classes is, that many players dont know how to play it to the max.

There are other issues as well, but these are most obvious ones. I always defended the new dev team, but I start asking myself now,if they even want a balanced PvP mode at all. Although PvP improved pretty much, compared to times of powercreep,generating hopes and then disappointing people is a bad thing ! ! !

Condi thief doesn't have spammable stealth. Where do people get this from?

..dagger 5

Well P/D rotation after steal is usually going to be Shadow Strike followed by repeater which is 6 initiative. So out of 15 initiative that leaves them with 9. That is provided they hit their shadow strike, and also dont use dancing dagger. At best they can use it once IF IT HITS for a lousy 3 seconds of steal which they will make use out of with sneak attack which debuffs them with reveal and leaves them with little to 0 initiative.

BUT WAIT IF SHADOW STRIKE HITS ARENT THEY OUT OF MELEE RANGE?

WHY YES THEY ARE! Which renders CnD completely useless as a way to access stealth.

TL;DR you are so hilariously wrong.

...i don't need you to teach me how to p/d thief

Duh. Nobody needs to teach anybody how to p/d thief, because it's one of the easiest thief builds to play.

But he's still correct, that's not a stealth spam.

I think P\D is easier than other thief builds even if not focused on conditions. Mainly because it is ranged dps. I don't have to go to melee range and eat all those AoEs on the ground and I can do damage while kiting.Stealth spam that's more like Deadeye. Or Dragon hunter or Ranger with trapper rune.

And how are you actually goning to do damage if you are not going to go melee range?

I think they mean they don't have to be primarily in melee range. Once you hit shadowstrike, you don't have to get up close and worry about dying to all the AoE while repeater is available.

Well yes, those 4 seconds of happiness...

I'm not sure what you're trying to argue about here, are you trying to say that p/d somehow doesn't predominantly/easly deal dmg from range just because it's "gated" behind a single melee attack that sends you away from your target? Or what exactly is the point of your sarcastic "4 seconds of happiness"? I just don't understand.

I think his point was you then need to get back into melee range to keep up your ranged pressure from Repeater or to Cloak and Dagger in order to get a Sneak Attack. Otherwise for damage it’s autoattack (not really all that high damage) or Dancing Dagger, which really needs to be under 600 range to hit consistently.

Ranged is easier in GW2 insofar as it tracks targets in most cases and has consistent pressure. Ranged is harder in that you can LoS projectiles or even just move sideways and some slower projectiles will miss. In that sense I will disagree with your assertion that P/D is easy merely because it is ranged.

You can't disagree with "my assertion that P/D is easy merely because it is ranged", because I didn't say that.And if his sarcasm was directed at the fact that you need to momentarily be up close just to shadowstep back and then deal dmg at range, then that's a pretty weak point, but k. Sure, it's not p/p 3spam, but that doesn't change what the person he answered to said. It is safer and easier to play than most of the other thief builds.

The point is, unless you have them porting in with Signet or Steal, you will see them coming into melee range. Block it, kite it, whatever. If you don’t want them using Repeater you can generally stop them from doing so.

And if you want you can save an interrupt and use it when they start their 1.25 second channel per Repeater. Spamming Repeater just isn’t a good strategy.

I’ve killed a lot of people running P/D. They fail against projectile denial. They generally don’t do well when you kite them. Most importantly they are extremely vulnerable to counter pressure once they land Shadowstrike and are locked out of their teleport for several seconds and are doing long channels at 600 range.

This isn’t some range one shot burst from 1300 range. This is slower and at 600. If they kill you there are things that can be done to improve and beat them.

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@saerni.2584 said:

@"hotte in space.2158" said:1) Power rev is too strong and condi rev is just ridiculous. Braindead sustain+high damage+good mobility.No balancing/hotfix for 3 months now, great job dev team^^2) Necro the same. High sustain+high damage. Has access to perma swiftness and fear needs to get nerfed too.3) Condi thief should not run around like this. After years, stealth still seems to be the only spamable ability. Why?4) Except guards, nearly all classes have too much mobility.5) Overpowered classes affect unbalanced matchmaking.6) Only good thing about op classes is, that many players dont know how to play it to the max.

There are other issues as well, but these are most obvious ones. I always defended the new dev team, but I start asking myself now,if they even want a balanced PvP mode at all. Although PvP improved pretty much, compared to times of powercreep,generating hopes and then disappointing people is a bad thing ! ! !

Condi thief doesn't have spammable stealth. Where do people get this from?

..dagger 5

Well P/D rotation after steal is usually going to be Shadow Strike followed by repeater which is 6 initiative. So out of 15 initiative that leaves them with 9. That is provided they hit their shadow strike, and also dont use dancing dagger. At best they can use it once IF IT HITS for a lousy 3 seconds of steal which they will make use out of with sneak attack which debuffs them with reveal and leaves them with little to 0 initiative.

BUT WAIT IF SHADOW STRIKE HITS ARENT THEY OUT OF MELEE RANGE?

WHY YES THEY ARE! Which renders CnD completely useless as a way to access stealth.

TL;DR you are so hilariously wrong.

...i don't need you to teach me how to p/d thief

Duh. Nobody needs to teach anybody how to p/d thief, because it's one of the easiest thief builds to play.

But he's still correct, that's not a stealth spam.

I think P\D is easier than other thief builds even if not focused on conditions. Mainly because it is ranged dps. I don't have to go to melee range and eat all those AoEs on the ground and I can do damage while kiting.Stealth spam that's more like Deadeye. Or Dragon hunter or Ranger with trapper rune.

And how are you actually goning to do damage if you are not going to go melee range?

I think they mean they don't have to be primarily in melee range. Once you hit shadowstrike, you don't have to get up close and worry about dying to all the AoE while repeater is available.

Well yes, those 4 seconds of happiness...

I'm not sure what you're trying to argue about here, are you trying to say that p/d somehow doesn't predominantly/easly deal dmg from range just because it's "gated" behind a single melee attack that sends you away from your target? Or what exactly is the point of your sarcastic "4 seconds of happiness"? I just don't understand.

I think his point was you then need to get back into melee range to keep up your ranged pressure from Repeater or to Cloak and Dagger in order to get a Sneak Attack. Otherwise for damage it’s autoattack (not really all that high damage) or Dancing Dagger, which really needs to be under 600 range to hit consistently.

Ranged is easier in GW2 insofar as it tracks targets in most cases and has consistent pressure. Ranged is harder in that you can LoS projectiles or even just move sideways and some slower projectiles will miss. In that sense I will disagree with your assertion that P/D is easy merely because it is ranged.

You can't disagree with "my assertion that P/D is easy merely because it is ranged", because I didn't say that.And if his sarcasm was directed at the fact that you need to momentarily be up close just to shadowstep back and then deal dmg at range, then that's a pretty weak point, but k. Sure, it's not p/p 3spam, but that doesn't change what the person he answered to said. It is safer and easier to play than most of the other thief builds.

The point is, unless you have them porting in with Signet or Steal, you will see them coming into melee range. Block it, kite it, whatever. If you don’t want them using Repeater you can generally stop them from doing so.

And if you want you can save an interrupt and use it when they start their 1.25 second channel per Repeater. Spamming Repeater just isn’t a good strategy.

I’ve killed a lot of people running P/D. They fail against projectile denial. They generally don’t do well when you kite them. Most importantly they are extremely vulnerable to counter pressure once they land Shadowstrike and are locked out of their teleport for several seconds and are doing long channels at 600 range.

This isn’t some range one shot burst from 1300 range. This is slower and at 600. If they kill you there are things that can be done to improve and beat them.

I never said there's nothing to do about p/d thief. Do you think I'm arguing for a nerf here or something? I think you've lost context, maybe reread the chain again or something, because your answer seems just "a bit" disconnected to me.

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I think I read several posts and conflated them...lol.

I reread and I think your point was damage at range is possible for a ranged weapon...which I agree with. But I also think if people are worried about significant damage, you are looking at Shadowstrike from melee range, repeatedly. Also, likely with venoms which I’ve posted several times are the actual issue with “spike condi.”

I dislike, not aimed at you here, people generally attributing the problem to P/D when all their complaints mention venoms or thieves guild. It’s easy to press two buttons and share up to 24 stacks of poison onto a target. That’s the easy part. Not the weapon set they are using to provide cover condi and some additional condi pressure.

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It will prob be something like:

Bigger initiative cost for renegades on that aoe stunBigger cd on renegade resistance ability.

Because of the complaints about rangers, pets now at 0.2 or something

Warriors get some really small buff but probably won't help much

Necros get a massive nerf to sustain by nerfing how much carapace can go out.Dmg on reaper shroud scythe 1 and the 3rd attack gets hit with the nerf bat, destroying reaper.

What else ah yes probably some nerf to thief regarding stealth

Thunder rod from eles gets nerfed from to it no longer stuns and bigger cd 60 sec.

Hopefully they don't implement these kinds of nerfs killing entire classes and gutting entire elite specs.

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