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You NEED/MUST nerf the repeater flip skill for shadow strike on PD condi thief in PVP


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This IS the most problematic thing about the current PD condi thief in pvp.

  • You can spam it up to 3 times, possibly 4 with quickness after a single shadow strike, at a cost of 2 ini...this is ridiculous.
  • It triggers deadly ambition with each repeater (3x, or 4x)
  • The bleeds are ridiculous for the spammability (3x,4x)
  • While this may not be the major burst, it can keep the enemy under constant heavy condition pressure from ranged.

Suggestions:

  1. Make the flip skill repeater a one time use, just like the flip skill for s/d (imagine larcenous strike 3-4 times in a row......just imagine)
  2. Increase the flip skill cost to 3 because it is the right thing to do when you nerf thief skills. You didn't truly nerf it if there was not an increase in cost.
  3. Put a bit of a cast time on shadow strike, maybe make it 1/2 sec, or 1/4. If you go with 1/2 beef up the initial damage from the strike to make it worth it.

Bonus Request:

The venom share mechanic needs a rework.

Think about venoms like the thief carrying around a vial of venom. Potent stuff, but they share the bottle and the potency is therefor decreased.

So, make venoms stronger alone, but with shared application reduce the efficacy for each ally shared with such as a reduction of 10,20,30,35,40% (for 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 allies shared).

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@Crab Fear.1624 said:This IS the most problematic thing about the current PD condi thief in pvp.

  • You can spam it up to 3 times, possibly 4 with quickness after a single shadow strike, at a cost of 2 ini...this is ridiculous.
  • It triggers deadly ambition with each repeater (3x, or 4x)
  • The bleeds are ridiculous for the spammability (3x,4x)
  • While this may not be the major burst, it can keep the enemy under constant heavy condition pressure from ranged.

Suggestions:

  1. Make the flip skill repeater a one time use, just like the flip skill for s/d (imagine larcenous strike 3-4 times in a row......just imagine)
  2. Increase the flip skill cost to 3 because it is the right thing to do when you nerf thief skills. You didn't truly nerf it if there was not an increase in cost.
  3. Put a bit of a cast time on shadow strike, maybe make it 1/2 sec, or 1/4. If you go with 1/2 beef up the initial damage from the strike to make it worth it.

Bonus Request:

The venom share mechanic needs a rework.

Think about venoms like the thief carrying around a vial of venom. Potent stuff, but they share the bottle and the potency is therefor decreased.

So, make venoms stronger alone, but with shared application reduce the efficacy for each ally shared with such as a reduction of 10,20,30,35,40% (for 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 allies shared).

Another one, we already know ... in meantime try to deal with it. Venom share with teef guild meme? ... we already replaced this monkey stuff and replaced it by portal and basi elite to be even more mobile and kill u all even faster ?☠

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@Crab Fear.1624 said:This IS the most problematic thing about the current PD condi thief in pvp.

  • You can spam it up to 3 times, possibly 4 with quickness after a single shadow strike, at a cost of 2 ini...this is ridiculous.
  • It triggers deadly ambition with each repeater (3x, or 4x)
  • The bleeds are ridiculous for the spammability (3x,4x)
  • While this may not be the major burst, it can keep the enemy under constant heavy condition pressure from ranged.

Suggestions:

  1. Make the flip skill repeater a one time use, just like the flip skill for s/d (imagine larcenous strike 3-4 times in a row......just imagine)
  2. Increase the flip skill cost to 3 because it is the right thing to do when you nerf thief skills. You didn't truly nerf it if there was not an increase in cost.
  3. Put a bit of a cast time on shadow strike, maybe make it 1/2 sec, or 1/4. If you go with 1/2 beef up the initial damage from the strike to make it worth it.

Bonus Request:

The venom share mechanic needs a rework.

Think about venoms like the thief carrying around a vial of venom. Potent stuff, but they share the bottle and the potency is therefor decreased.

So, make venoms stronger alone, but with shared application reduce the efficacy for each ally shared with such as a reduction of 10,20,30,35,40% (for 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 allies shared).

There is no 4x, only 3x maximum. You don't have access to quickness in this build. And 3x imply's that thief just stands on the spot and keeps pressing 1 button. Eating all the incomming damage. If you can't handle with thief who stands still than nothing will help you. Literally nothing.

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@Tayga.3192 said:

@"fumcheg.1936" said:You don't have access to quickness in this build.

Thieves I fight will ALWAYS have quickness access except deadeye.

Guess what class I play?

If you are implying about Consume plasma stolen from mesmer then yes it will give you like 2-2.5 sec (nor sure) of quickness. After you use it. And then come to meele range, then use SS and then there is going to be genuine 0.1-0.2 quickness fest. Which of course will not turn 3x into 4x. Or you can use it right after steal and then go SS in hope that your enemy will stand there waiting you to prepare your quickinized SS. Anyway I believe there should be another topic "nerf the consume plasma".

Btw why would mesmer complain about PD thief? It's much more easy to kill mesmer with DP or SD thief.

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On the one hand, Repeater could be a single flip skill. I don’t mind that at all, I even like that. But, Repeater spam isn’t doing the big damage against competent players. Multiple long channels like Repeater (base 1.25 seconds each) are begging for (1) counter pressure, (2) an interrupt, (3) projectile hate.

You, correctly, mention venom is a big part of why this build became popular (because venoms are easy to play and apply/share). Venoms are easy to apply in a single attack if the attack hits multiple times, which is both Sneak Attack and Repeater and also just the auto attacks (which are smaller damage more often). Venoms are the issue, especially with Thieves Guild, so why not just address venoms?

Here’s a few suggestions for changes to venoms:

  1. Venoms now apply only on the first attack of a single skill. Makes venoms more slow burn rather than spike.
  2. Like you suggested. Venom sharing decreases total stacks per person to 3. So you either get 6 yourself or shared with 3 people or NPCs you get up to 12 (not the current 24).

Adding a cast time delay to Shadowstrike makes no sense to me. It is a teleport for kiting and adding cast time will only mean people precast it into teleport. So you change nothing except make it more clunky to use when you aren’t doing a teleport in-out combo (which is what people have been actually complaining about—although that’s basically been a complaint about thief generally for a long time). I’d note, there is a delay in the follow up damage on Shadowstrike (it is a melee strike that teleports followed by a higher damage shot on a delay). Lots of the damage can be avoided if you throw up a block/etc right after the teleport because a big chunk of power damage and the follow up Repeater will be blocked and that will consume venom charges if those have been applied.

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Thing is pistol thief shouldn’t be a condition build. Remove bleeds entirely and nerf p/d 3 skill to the bottom of earth. Also rework thief’s guild to something with less thief’s and much lower duration. Idc if u make cd lower but thief’s guild lasting for 30 secs is insane and it should really only 2 thief’s at max, but according to logic I think 1 is enough

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@Dantheman.3589 said:Thing is pistol thief shouldn’t be a condition build. Remove bleeds entirely and nerf p/d 3 skill to the bottom of earth. Also rework thief’s guild to something with less thief’s and much lower duration. Idc if u make cd lower but thief’s guild lasting for 30 secs is insane and it should really only 2 thief’s at max, but according to logic I think 1 is enough

Thing is, that’s been it’s design for nearly 8 years. And it’s a hybrid not a condition weapon.

What is giving people burst condi here is venoms. A utility. Usually shared with Guild. I can do that on any weapon set. That’s what needs adjusting.

You might as well have suggested removing damaging condi from the game. It isn’t helpful or realistic.

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@saerni.2584 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:Thing is pistol thief shouldn’t be a condition build. Remove bleeds entirely and nerf p/d 3 skill to the bottom of earth. Also rework thief’s guild to something with less thief’s and much lower duration. Idc if u make cd lower but thief’s guild lasting for 30 secs is insane and it should really only 2 thief’s at max, but according to logic I think 1 is enough

Thing is, that’s been it’s design for nearly 8 years. And it’s a hybrid not a condition weapon.

What is giving people burst condi here is venoms. A utility. Usually shared with Guild. I can do that on any weapon set. That’s what needs adjusting.

You might as well have suggested removing damaging condi from the game. It isn’t helpful or realistic.

Only thing hybrid about pistol is p/d. No it’s not venoms- cuz then s/d condition thief would be busted meta too, but I’ve tested it and it’s decent but balanced. It’s just lol, thief’s guild having a 30 sec duration with 3 thief’s also doesn’t really have a place in pvp

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@Dantheman.3589 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:Thing is pistol thief shouldn’t be a condition build. Remove bleeds entirely and nerf p/d 3 skill to the bottom of earth. Also rework thief’s guild to something with less thief’s and much lower duration. Idc if u make cd lower but thief’s guild lasting for 30 secs is insane and it should really only 2 thief’s at max, but according to logic I think 1 is enough

Thing is, that’s been it’s design for nearly 8 years. And it’s a hybrid not a condition weapon.

What is giving people burst condi here is venoms. A utility. Usually shared with Guild. I can do that on any weapon set. That’s what needs adjusting.

You might as well have suggested removing damaging condi from the game. It isn’t helpful or realistic.

Only thing hybrid about pistol is p/d. No it’s not venoms- cuz then s/d condition thief would be busted meta too, but I’ve tested it and it’s decent but balanced. It’s just lol, thief’s guild having a 30 sec duration with 3 thief’s also doesn’t really have a place in pvp

I don’t see why you couldn’t use something like the old s/d build. P/D has always had more condi application but s/d was considered better due to the teleports through walls.

Just port in, thieves guild (Pre-cast), venom, steal, port out, rinse and repeat.

But that’s an issue with well played Sword in general. They are harder to pin and if they are chunking your HP it’s not a good place to be in...

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@saerni.2584 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:Thing is pistol thief shouldn’t be a condition build. Remove bleeds entirely and nerf p/d 3 skill to the bottom of earth. Also rework thief’s guild to something with less thief’s and much lower duration. Idc if u make cd lower but thief’s guild lasting for 30 secs is insane and it should really only 2 thief’s at max, but according to logic I think 1 is enough

Thing is, that’s been it’s design for nearly 8 years. And it’s a hybrid not a condition weapon.

What is giving people burst condi here is venoms. A utility. Usually shared with Guild. I can do that on any weapon set. That’s what needs adjusting.

You might as well have suggested removing damaging condi from the game. It isn’t helpful or realistic.

Only thing hybrid about pistol is p/d. No it’s not venoms- cuz then s/d condition thief would be busted meta too, but I’ve tested it and it’s decent but balanced. It’s just lol, thief’s guild having a 30 sec duration with 3 thief’s also doesn’t really have a place in pvp

I don’t see why you couldn’t use something like the old s/d build. P/D has always had more condi application but s/d was considered better due to the teleports through walls.

Just port in, thieves guild (Pre-cast), venom, steal, port out, rinse and repeat.

But that’s an issue with well played Sword in general. They are harder to pin and if they are chunking your HP it’s not a good place to be in...

I wouldn’t play it w/ thief’s guild tbh. But even when they nerfed condition thief awhile back, even though I’d always hit my highest ranks when condi thief was meta, I would site the nerfs as a good thing because thief’s guild + venom share is busted. Even though I actually like condition thief, the p/d build is everything I’ve hated about condition thief all clumped together at the same time in 1 build and it’s pretty dang strong atm

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Take away the venom + guild and it’s actually not over performing in the slightest.

If we must nerf we should target the actual problem and not destroy the gameplay.

It’s like, Pistol has had bleed forever and doesn’t put out that much bleed. Taking away bleed and venoms moves the entire weapon away from viability rather than just eliminating the actual problem.

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@fumcheg.1936 said:

@fumcheg.1936 said:You don't have access to quickness in this build.

Thieves I fight will ALWAYS have quickness access except deadeye.

Guess what class I play?

If you are implying about Consume plasma stolen from mesmer then yes it will give you like 2-2.5 sec (nor sure) of quickness. After you use it. And then come to meele range, then use SS and then there is going to be genuine 0.1-0.2 quickness fest. Which of course will not turn 3x into 4x. Or you can use it right after steal and then go SS in hope that your enemy will stand there waiting you to prepare your quickinized SS. Anyway I believe there should be another topic "nerf the consume plasma".

Btw why would mesmer complain about PD thief? It's much more easy to kill mesmer with DP or SD thief.

Sorry, but assuming we have quickness as a thief, it can go from 3 to 4.

But, I had to make a video.

You can count how many channels after after I hit with shadow strike.

I am a thief main, not a good one by any means, but that's a different story.

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@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@fumcheg.1936 said:You don't have access to quickness in this build.

Thieves I fight will ALWAYS have quickness access except deadeye.

Guess what class I play?

If you are implying about Consume plasma stolen from mesmer then yes it will give you like 2-2.5 sec (nor sure) of quickness. After you use it. And then come to meele range, then use SS and then there is going to be genuine 0.1-0.2 quickness fest. Which of course will not turn 3x into 4x. Or you can use it right after steal and then go SS in hope that your enemy will stand there waiting you to prepare your quickinized SS. Anyway I believe there should be another topic "nerf the consume plasma".

Btw why would mesmer complain about PD thief? It's much more easy to kill mesmer with DP or SD thief.

Sorry, but assuming we have quickness as a thief, it can go from 3 to 4.

But, I had to make a video.

You can count how many channels after after I hit with shadow strike.

I am a thief main, not a good one by any means, but that's a different story.

So much efforts spent in vain. PD condi build does not have direct acccess to quickness.

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@fumcheg.1936 said:So much efforts spent in vain. PD condi build does not have direct acccess to quickness.

I almost always play mesmer and every thief I fight against will have quickness access. This might not be a balance baseline, but all mesmer players will feel like thieves always have a quickness utility or something like Sigil of Celerity.

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