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Deadeye - Too powerful?


Vashuddha.1538

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It has come to my attention that some people are a bit unsatifsied with the current state of Deadeye. It is my firm opinion that Deadeye needs to be toned down a bit, but I would love to hear your take on this, and open up a discussion on whether Deadeye needs a nerf or not.

So..

  1. Needs a nerf - explain why
  2. Deadeye is fine as it is - explain why

Let's keep this civil.

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@Roche.7491 said:Deadeye needs a def buff. It’s too squishy compared to dd. You’ll be gone in a blink of an eye.

Suggest make Rifle 5 mobile

Interesting. What do you think about the the offensive aspect of this build? The build has high damage velocity at long ranges, combined with stealth and high mobility. Makes it hard to close distance as they can instantly stealth and then reappear at another location and instantly hit you with Death's judgement critting 7 - 10 k, stealth again and then repeat, a feat which surpasses even that of a ranger.

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@Roche.7491 said:Deadeye needs a def buff. It’s too squishy compared to dd. You’ll be gone in a blink of an eye.

Suggest make Rifle 5 mobile

Of course deadeye is squishier than daredevil.Daredevil is designed to be a melee bruiser elite spec with alot of survival tools at hand like blocks, evades, damage reductions....Deadeye on the other hand is designed to be a long range dps spec with tools like additional stealth, knockbacks and others to keep enemies at distance. But if you manage to close the gap to them, they are supposed to die quickly.

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@Vashuddha.1538 said:

@Roche.7491 said:Deadeye needs a def buff. It’s too squishy compared to dd. You’ll be gone in a blink of an eye.

Suggest make Rifle 5 mobile

Interesting. What do you think about the the offensive aspect of this build? The build has high damage velocity at long ranges, combined with stealth and high mobility. Makes it hard to close distance as they can instantly stealth and then reappear at another location and instantly hit you with Death's judgement critting 7 - 10 k, stealth again and then repeat, a feat which surpasses even that of a ranger.

Just evade it’s burst and it won’t have enough initiative to kill you. It can only do 3 burst shot. Judgement is easy to evade. Count one when a laser hits you then evade.

Daredevil works best in evade as he has 6 evades. 3 from endurance, 1 from signet endurance refill, 1 from utility dodge skill, 1 from weapon skill.

You can also use the smoke tech against range.

You can also do a large aoe from other class so stealth won’t protect it. it’s dodge roll won’t be suffice to distance.

Other classes have protection.

It’s a glass cannon with no pets, weakest mobility but high burst. It’s suppose to be a threat

Remove it’s burst and it will be a useless minion that is ignorable or not a threat

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@"lokh.2695" said:Isn't there a thief section on the forums?

Yes there is. The last time I posted on a Thief section I was met with hostility, and insulted and patronized by a group of "pro-thieves" for asking questions.Basically, the thief section is a red zone, and should be avoided at all times unless you're okay with being marginalized and ridiculed. I know I'm not.

Where would you want to nerf it? PvE, PvP, WvW?

PVP, and WvW.

What do you think needs to be nerfed?

Mobility, perhaps. I just know out of personal experience that Thieves are (in some cases) incredibly difficult to deal with compared to other classes. Especially if you're wearing light armor.

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@Vashuddha.1538 said:

@"lokh.2695" said:Isn't there a thief section on the forums?

Yes there is. The last time I posted on a Thief section I was met with hostility, and insulted and patronized by a group of "pro-thieves" for asking questions.Basically, the thief section is a red zone, and should be avoided at all times unless you're okay with being marginalized and ridiculed. I know I'm not.

Where would you want to nerf it? PvE, PvP, WvW?

PVP, and WvW.

What do you think needs to be nerfed?

Mobility, perhaps. I just know out of personal experience that Thieves are (in some cases) incredibly difficult to deal with compared to other classes. Especially if you're wearing light armor.

What's your class, you are probably paper and DE is scissors.

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@Vashuddha.1538 said:

@"lokh.2695" said:Isn't there a thief section on the forums?

Yes there is. The last time I posted on a Thief section I was met with hostility, and insulted and patronized by a group of "pro-thieves" for asking questions.Basically, the thief section is a red zone, and should be avoided at all times unless you're okay with being marginalized and ridiculed. I know I'm not.

Where would you want to nerf it? PvE, PvP, WvW?

PVP, and WvW.

What do you think needs to be nerfed?

Mobility, perhaps. I just know out of personal experience that Thieves are (in some cases) incredibly difficult to deal with compared to other classes. Especially if you're wearing light armor.

You were also asked for some details and given substantive feedback which you ignored.

Welcome back to the thief sub forum where this belongs.

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@Roche.7491 said:

@Roche.7491 said:Deadeye needs a def buff. It’s too squishy compared to dd. You’ll be gone in a blink of an eye.

Suggest make Rifle 5 mobile

Interesting. What do you think about the the offensive aspect of this build? The build has high damage velocity at long ranges, combined with stealth and high mobility. Makes it hard to close distance as they can instantly stealth and then reappear at another location and instantly hit you with Death's judgement critting 7 - 10 k, stealth again and then repeat, a feat which surpasses even that of a ranger.

Just evade it’s burst and it won’t have enough initiative to kill you. It can only do 3 burst shot. Judgement is easy to evade. Count one when a laser hits you then evade.

Daredevil works best in evade as he has 6 evades. 3 from endurance, 1 from signet endurance refill, 1 from utility dodge skill, 1 from weapon skill.

You can also use the smoke tech against range.

You can also do a large aoe from other class so stealth won’t protect it. it’s dodge roll won’t be suffice to distance.

Other classes have protection.

It’s a glass cannon with no pets, weakest mobility but high burst. It’s suppose to be a threat

Remove it’s burst and it will be a useless minion that is ignorable or not a threat

I have two issues with this suggestion. One the laser isnt very visible. In fact, much of the time I dont see the laser at all, esp if you are in combat w another player/NPCs. The other thing I have noticed is a good DE can reapply the stealth/burst combo so quickly that with, for example, a Mirage you use your 1 dodge then they can still just burst on you before you can dodge again, then they can also restealth BEFORE you can target and rupt or burst unless they are slow noobs. Its just a shit spec that shouldnt exsist as it stands. Im not saying they arent squishy, IF they make enough mistakes you "may get lucky" and hit and down them, then if you wait around for stealth to wear off you can usually finish them pretty easy (so many IFs). Yea DE and DD both need more delay on stealth reapplication. That seems to be the biggest issue. I mean they restealth so fast not even auto target will hit them, you pretty much have to slash at the air and hope to hit them in stealth which is BULLSHIT.

I think DE should have a forced delay after the burst that keeps them revealed long enough for them to be countered properly.

I think the laser should be MUCH more vivible and it should give a better idea of the direction and location of the DE too.

These two changes seem justified because the burst is significant, very fast, and they basically stay in stealth the entire time.

Either the burst needs a longercooldown or the stealth needs a delay at the very least.

As it stands its just some shitty trash that shoulnt be a thing.

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You were also asked for some details and given substantive feedback which you ignored.

You clearly haven't read everything if you claim that I ignored the constructive feedback that was given to me. I responded to most of the comments there, but haven't as of recently due to the hostility and it being too time consuming. So to say that I ignored them is a blatant lie. Again, false accusations seems to be a trend here on the forums. Regardless, what I choose to ignore, or pay attention to is none but my own business, and it doesn't justify someone's need to be rude or condescending. So basically, your statement here is pretty much pointless.

Moving on..

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@Moradorin.6217 said:

@Roche.7491 said:Deadeye needs a def buff. It’s too squishy compared to dd. You’ll be gone in a blink of an eye.

Suggest make Rifle 5 mobile

Interesting. What do you think about the the offensive aspect of this build? The build has high damage velocity at long ranges, combined with stealth and high mobility. Makes it hard to close distance as they can instantly stealth and then reappear at another location and instantly hit you with Death's judgement critting 7 - 10 k, stealth again and then repeat, a feat which surpasses even that of a ranger.

Just evade it’s burst and it won’t have enough initiative to kill you. It can only do 3 burst shot. Judgement is easy to evade. Count one when a laser hits you then evade.

Daredevil works best in evade as he has 6 evades. 3 from endurance, 1 from signet endurance refill, 1 from utility dodge skill, 1 from weapon skill.

You can also use the smoke tech against range.

You can also do a large aoe from other class so stealth won’t protect it. it’s dodge roll won’t be suffice to distance.

Other classes have protection.

It’s a glass cannon with no pets, weakest mobility but high burst. It’s suppose to be a threat

Remove it’s burst and it will be a useless minion that is ignorable or not a threat

I have two issues with this suggestion. One the laser isnt very visible. In fact, much of the time I dont see the laser at all, esp if you are in combat w another player/NPCs. The other thing I have noticed is a good DE can reapply the stealth/burst combo so quickly that with, for example, a Mirage you use your 1 dodge then they can still just burst on you before you can dodge again, then they can also restealth BEFORE you can target and rupt or burst unless they are slow noobs. Its just a kitten spec that shouldnt exsist as it stands. Im not saying they arent squishy, IF they make enough mistakes you "may get lucky" and hit and down them, then if you wait around for stealth to wear off you can usually finish them pretty easy (so many IFs). Yea DE and DD both need more delay on stealth reapplication. That seems to be the biggest issue. I mean they restealth so fast not even auto target will hit them, you pretty much have to slash at the air and hope to hit them in stealth which is kitten.

I think DE should have a forced delay after the burst that keeps them revealed long enough for them to be countered properly.

I think the laser should be MUCH more vivible and it should give a better idea of the direction and location of the DE too.

These two changes seem justified because the burst is significant, very fast, and they basically stay in stealth the entire time.

Either the burst needs a longercooldown or the stealth needs a delay at the very least.

As it stands its just some kitten trash that shoulnt be a thing.

Agree a 100% with this. Good feedback.

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@"Vashuddha.1538" said:Mobility, perhaps. I just know out of personal experience that Thieves are (in some cases) incredibly difficult to deal with compared to other classes. Especially if you're wearing light armor.

Alright, let's go through the list:

  • Mesmer: your actual problem is that your class got completely shredded by the absolute worst implementation of the new "elites should have drawbacks!" design philosophy, and sucks hard against everyone right now.
  • Elementalist: pay more attention to the defensive parts of your attunement rotation.
  • Necromancer: if you're a Reaper, use your pulls (plural!) and use Speed runes for roaming; Core ranged shroud attack is slow as molasses but boon corruption does great work against basically every thief build; Scourge is not a solo/ad-hoc-group roaming spec.
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@Vashuddha.1538 said:

You were also asked for some details and given substantive feedback which you ignored.

You clearly haven't read everything if you claim that I ignored the constructive feedback that was given to me. I responded to most of the comments there, but haven't as of recently due to the hostility and it being too time consuming. So to say that I ignored them is a blatant lie. Again, false accusations seems to be a trend here on the forums. Regardless, what I choose to ignore, or pay attention to is none but my own business, and it doesn't justify someone's need to be rude or condescending. So basically, your statement here is pretty much pointless.

Moving on..

Ask for help and get help. Are you having problems with DE? I asked you in the other thread and you never responded, but made this long thread complaining about DE in another sub forum. I’m willing to help and, yes, I’m chastising you a little for acting like you have the time to post this big complaint thread but not to respond to the previous thief thread.

And my question about DE stands. Is your problem the idea of Deadeye? I’m sorry, but that is literally the point of Deadeye as designed.

Is your problem the stealth? Let’s go over that then. I can be helpful if I know the parameters of what you want to know about.

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Deadeye is very underpowered. The class is even worse at fighting than regular thief, which is saying a lot. Its primary issue is that all of its damage is locked into Death's Judgment, a skill so telegraphed that you shouldnt be hit by it unless youre AFK or screwed up multiple times. Now there is a caveat here because sometimes the telegraph is bugged (and only appears after youve been hit), but that bug isnt nearly consistent enough to rely on. Its screwed by any projectile hate, any ranged class, or any mobile melee class. Basically it cant fight any good class effectively.

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@Vashuddha.1538 said:It has come to my attention that some people are a bit unsatifsied with the current state of Deadeye. It is my firm opinion that Deadeye needs to be toned down a bit, but I would love to hear your take on this, and open up a discussion on whether Deadeye needs a nerf or not.

So..

  1. Needs a nerf - explain why
  2. Deadeye is fine as it is - explain why

Let's keep this civil.

You demand explanation from people, yet you throw your opinion in the opening post with no justification at all. How do you think that's ok?

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@saerni.2584 said:

@"Vashuddha.1538" said:

You were also asked for some details and given substantive feedback which you ignored.

You clearly haven't read everything if you claim that I ignored the constructive feedback that was given to me. I responded to most of the comments there, but haven't as of recently due to the hostility and it being too time consuming. So to say that I ignored them is a blatant lie. Again, false accusations seems to be a trend here on the forums. Regardless, what I choose to ignore, or pay attention to is none but my own business, and it doesn't justify someone's need to be rude or condescending. So basically, your statement here is pretty much pointless.

Moving on..

Ask for help and get help. Are you having problems with DE? I asked you in the other thread and you never responded, but made this long thread complaining about DE in another sub forum.

First of all, my first post was not in regard to DE at ALL, so you haven't really read my first post thouroughly which is a bit ironic since you're now here accusing me of not responding to something that wasn't even a subject to begin with.

I’m willing to help and, yes, I’m chastising you a little for acting like you have the time to post this big complaint thread but not to respond to the previous thief thread.

You've already demonstrated that you haven't really read my previous post carefully, and now you're literally trying to put me on trial based on this false narrative. But what about this post? I don't recall asking anyone for advice or help , the purpose was to start a civil discussion in regard to DE. So basically what you're doing is giving me s*** for not responding to your very unsolicited advice. Having said that, I do appreciate when someone is willing to provide valuable knowledge guidamce, but it's the patronizing arroganse that usually comes with it that I have a problem with, and is the main reason why I left the other thread, because most of the "constructive" feedback was drenched with negativity.

If you're willing to help, and perhaps share some of your knowledge, then I am all ears, but let's keep it factual and civil ☺️

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@Sobx.1758 said:

@Vashuddha.1538 said:It has come to my attention that some people are a bit unsatifsied with the current state of Deadeye. It is my firm opinion that Deadeye needs to be toned down a bit, but I would love to hear your take on this, and open up a discussion on whether Deadeye needs a nerf or not.

So..
  1. Needs a nerf - explain why
  2. Deadeye is fine as it is - explain why

Let's keep this civil.

You demand exlanation from people, yet you throw your opinion in the opening post with no justification at all. How do you think that's ok?

What are you babbling about?

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@Vashuddha.1538 said:

@Vashuddha.1538 said:It has come to my attention that some people are a bit unsatifsied with the current state of Deadeye. It is my firm opinion that Deadeye needs to be toned down a bit, but I would love to hear your take on this, and open up a discussion on whether Deadeye needs a nerf or not.

So..
  1. Needs a nerf - explain why
  2. Deadeye is fine as it is - explain why

Let's keep this civil.

You demand exlanation from people, yet you throw your opinion in the opening post with no justification at all. How do you think that's ok?

What are you babbling about?

You tell people to give their opinions with justification, while at the same time you throw you "firm opinion" with no justification at all. I'm curious by what logic you consider that double standard "ok", that's all.Following what you've done in your opening post, I guess I'm fine with saying "It is my firm opinion that deadeye needs no changes" and nothing else. How much is this worth for you (or anyone, really)?Hope it's clear what I've meant this time.

Also, I'm not "babbling", no need to be condescending.

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@Sobx.1758 said:

@Vashuddha.1538 said:It has come to my attention that some people are a bit unsatifsied with the current state of Deadeye. It is my firm opinion that Deadeye needs to be toned down a bit, but I would love to hear your take on this, and open up a discussion on whether Deadeye needs a nerf or not.

So..
  1. Needs a nerf - explain why
  2. Deadeye is fine as it is - explain why

Let's keep this civil.

You demand exlanation from people, yet you throw your opinion in the opening post with no justification at all. How do you think that's ok?

What are you babbling about?

You tell people to give their opinions with justification, while at the same time you throw you "firm opinion" with no justification at all. I'm curious by what logic you consider that double standard "ok", that's all.Following what you've done in your opening post, I guess I'm fine with saying "It is my firm opinion that deadeye needs no changes" and nothing else. How much is this worth for you (or anyone, really)?

Hope it's clear what I've meant this time.

Also, I'm not "babbling", no need to be condescending.

To be honest, I am a bit confused by your accusations here. Could you please tell me what you're refering to? Has anyone asked me about my opinion, and if so did I refuse to answer them?

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@Vashuddha.1538 said:

You were also asked for some details and given substantive feedback which you ignored.

You clearly haven't read everything if you claim that I ignored the constructive feedback that was given to me. I responded to most of the comments there, but haven't as of recently due to the hostility and it being too time consuming. So to say that I ignored them is a blatant lie. Again, false accusations seems to be a trend here on the forums. Regardless, what I choose to ignore, or pay attention to is none but my own business, and it doesn't justify someone's need to be rude or condescending. So basically, your statement here is pretty much pointless.

Moving on..

Ask for help and get help. Are you having problems with DE? I asked you in the other thread and you never responded, but made this long thread complaining about DE in another sub forum.

First of all, my first post was not in regard to DE at ALL, so you haven't really read my first post thouroughly which is a bit ironic since you're now here accusing me of not responding to something that wasn't even a subject to begin with.

I’m willing to help and, yes, I’m chastising you a little for acting like you have the time to post this big complaint thread but not to respond to the previous thief thread.

You've already demonstrated that you haven't really read my previous post carefully, and now you're literally trying to put me on trial based on this false narrative. But what about this post? I don't recall asking anyone for advice or help , the purpose was to start a civil discussion in regard to DE. So basically what you're doing is giving me s*** for not responding to your very unsolicited advice. Having said that, I do appreciate when someone is willing to provide valuable knowledge guidamce, but it's the patronizing arroganse that usually comes with it that I have a problem with, and is the main reason why I left the other thread, because most of the "constructive" feedback was drenched with negativity.

If you're willing to help, and perhaps share some of your knowledge, then I am all ears, but let's keep it factual and civil
☺️

Going off your OP and first few posts you have a “firm opinion.” Based on what? You haven’t said. Just gone after people challenging your lack of substantive arguments for “attacking you.”

Unsolicited advice? You posted “how to beat thief, really?” in the first thread and my advice was unsolicited?

Fine. You don’t want advice? Bye.

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@saerni.2584 said:

You were also asked for some details and given substantive feedback which you ignored.

You clearly haven't read everything if you claim that I ignored the constructive feedback that was given to me. I responded to most of the comments there, but haven't as of recently due to the hostility and it being too time consuming. So to say that I ignored them is a blatant lie. Again, false accusations seems to be a trend here on the forums. Regardless, what I choose to ignore, or pay attention to is none but my own business, and it doesn't justify someone's need to be rude or condescending. So basically, your statement here is pretty much pointless.

Moving on..

Ask for help and get help. Are you having problems with DE? I asked you in the other thread and you never responded, but made this long thread complaining about DE in another sub forum.

First of all, my first post was not in regard to DE at ALL, so you haven't really read my first post thouroughly which is a bit ironic since you're now here accusing me of not responding to something that wasn't even a subject to begin with.

I’m willing to help and, yes, I’m chastising you a little for acting like you have the time to post this big complaint thread but not to respond to the previous thief thread.

You've already demonstrated that you haven't really read my previous post carefully, and now you're literally trying to put me on trial based on this false narrative. But what about this post? I don't recall asking anyone for advice or help , the purpose was to start a civil discussion in regard to DE. So basically what you're doing is giving me s*** for not responding to your very unsolicited advice. Having said that, I do appreciate when someone is willing to provide valuable knowledge guidamce, but it's the patronizing arroganse that usually comes with it that I have a problem with, and is the main reason why I left the other thread, because most of the "constructive" feedback was drenched with negativity.

If you're willing to help, and perhaps share some of your knowledge, then I am all ears, but let's keep it factual and civil
☺️

Going off your OP and first few posts you have a “firm opinion.” Based on what? You haven’t said. Just gone after people challenging your lack of substantive arguments for “attacking you.”

Unsolicited advice? You posted “how to beat thief, really?” in the first thread and my advice was unsolicited?

Fine. You don’t want advice? Bye.

Unsolicited advice in regard to this post, silly, not the other one. I was also pointing out the fact that you mentioned De, when the subject on the other post was not about DE at all. Come on man :)

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@Vashuddha.1538 said:

@Vashuddha.1538 said:It has come to my attention that some people are a bit unsatifsied with the current state of Deadeye. It is my firm opinion that Deadeye needs to be toned down a bit, but I would love to hear your take on this, and open up a discussion on whether Deadeye needs a nerf or not.

So..
  1. Needs a nerf - explain why
  2. Deadeye is fine as it is - explain why

Let's keep this civil.

You demand exlanation from people, yet you throw your opinion in the opening post with no justification at all. How do you think that's ok?

What are you babbling about?

You tell people to give their opinions with justification, while at the same time you throw you "firm opinion" with no justification at all. I'm curious by what logic you consider that double standard "ok", that's all.Following what you've done in your opening post, I guess I'm fine with saying "It is my firm opinion that deadeye needs no changes" and nothing else. How much is this worth for you (or anyone, really)?

Hope it's clear what I've meant this time.

Also, I'm not "babbling", no need to be condescending.

To be honest, I am a bit confused by your accusations here. Could you please tell me what you're refering to? Has anyone asked me about my opinion, and if so did I refuse to answer them?

No, he is applying the same double standard you are doing. You firmly believe DE needs to be tonned down with out any explanation, he is doing the same just opposite. Is your word more believable than his? You also say others believe DE need tinned down who? Out of the entire wvw population is it 90%, 50%, .1%? I also firmly believe DE is no where near to what you state.

You should provide some context, some justification and an argument to even start asking for opinions. What class do you play? And as others have mentioned we can provide some easy pointers to get those DEs bags. That said, It is my firm opinion that this is a l2p issue. See what I did there.

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