Revenants.....

[RamD.2958]

Nerf revenants

It has little use to make this thread bigger then this as Arenanet fails time after time to do the balancing correctly.

What is your view on this and what do you like to see changed.

[Koen.1327]

mostly herald, but renegade needs some adjusting in aoe too

transfer facet: this needs serious nerf - huge range, unevadable, unblockable, ignores blind, nearly instant

glint heal - give it casting time (or increase facet casting time), since rev doesn't have a lot of stab this might be big nerf thoughalso it can be casted while in air - so it's very unique in the ability to heal up while jumping and kiting

elemental blast: for the sake of the name i'd keep the condis on it, by why does this need to do so much power dmg then too?

protection: one might think glint elite for nerfed cuz of 0 dmg, but i would say it got buffed with the cd reduction because you casually get more protection uptime since you have draconic echo ticking way too much for you. Aoe protection btw

[Tayga.3192]

Top 50 has 14 or so revs

Lol

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Tayga.3192 said:Top 50 has 14 or so revs

Lol

good players like rev, thats why there is 14 peeps there :)mesmer and warrior are boring for good players, thats why there is only 2 of them total :)

[Tayga.3192]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Tayga.3192 said:Top 50 has 14 or so revs

Lol

good players like rev, thats why there is 14 peeps there :)mesmer and warrior are boring for good players, thats why there is only 2 of them total :)

I think there are actually 3 warrs, 1 mesmer and 1 ele

[CutesySylveon.8290]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Tayga.3192 said:Top 50 has 14 or so revs

Lol

good players like rev, thats why there is 14 peeps there :)mesmer and warrior are boring for good players, thats why there is only 2 of them total :)

Right, I'm sure there's no mesmers because they're boring, not because they got shafted by the devs on both their elite specs.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Tayga.3192 said:Top 50 has 14 or so revs

Lol

good players like rev, thats why there is 14 peeps there :)mesmer and warrior are boring for good players, thats why there is only 2 of them total :)

Right, I'm sure there's no mesmers because they're boring, not because they got shafted by the devs on both their elite specs.

should I add in /s to the post? I though smiley faces were rather telling

[CutesySylveon.8290]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Tayga.3192 said:Top 50 has 14 or so revs

Lol

good players like rev, thats why there is 14 peeps there :)mesmer and warrior are boring for good players, thats why there is only 2 of them total :)

Right, I'm sure there's no mesmers because they're boring, not because they got shafted by the devs on both their elite specs.

should I add in /s to the post? I though smiley faces were rather telling

My bad, you can never tell for sure.

[lovemghool.7613]

balance it yourselvesplay condi thief

[youle.5824]

More then 1 ele I think, they dont all main it like grim but I see rod here and there from top players in ranked sometime. Also a few tempest tough maybe more for top 100. Sean ces something.. and Vallun I saw a lot in ranked this season on it. Another oe tempest as well but cant remember the name. And condi rev has way too much sustain for the dmg cc output but power rev was nerfed enough to be ok not op now. Rene is another story altogether, change need te be made for sure but without going in lenght there are many way to counter it currently so not a asap priority imo.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

ye elemental blast has always been an extremely ridiculous skill.

[Tayga.3192]

@youle.5824 said:More then 1 ele I think, they dont all main it like grim but I see rod here and there from top players in ranked sometime. Also a few tempest tough maybe more for top 100. Sean ces something.. and Vallun I saw a lot in ranked this season on it. Another oe tempest as well but cant remember the name. And condi rev has way too much sustain for the dmg cc output but power rev was nerfed enough to be ok not op now. Rene is another story altogether, change need te be made for sure but without going in lenght there are many way to counter it currently so not a asap priority imo.

I counted EU only since I only have data on that.

[apharma.3741]

One thing I'd like to see is energy cost removed from weapon abilities for rev. Then they can focus on the energy cost/upkeep costs for the utility skills with small cool downs to prevent back to back use.

This means you can start making Glint have costs and upkeep to properly manage without leaving a rev unable to do anything (they can still use weapon skills) for mismanaging the utility cool down. For example you might add a 25 energy cost to facet of light with a 3 energy upkeep until infuse light is used and in conjunction with the rest of the utilities having a cost and upkeep. This means you could make the stunbreak cost 30 energy and 3 upkeep so if you legend swap and hit facet of light you can't stunbreak for 1s and if you use another facet instead of the stunbreak you'll not have enough energy to stunbreak if you upkeep facet of light.

This means you won't be sitting on facets and be encouraged to use them, get some benefit then burn them and think more careful than use strength and element in glint, swap shiro and kite, swap glint and use strength and element again, heal/stunbreak as required without worry.

[Fueki.4753]

Revenants needs a rework, not just nerfs.

I'd settle for higher Energy costs on Utility though, if they remove Energy costs from weapon skills.

[CutesySylveon.8290]

@apharma.3741 said:One thing I'd like to see is energy cost removed from weapon abilities for rev. Then they can focus on the energy cost/upkeep costs for the utility skills with small cool downs to prevent back to back use.

This means you can start making Glint have costs and upkeep to properly manage without leaving a rev unable to do anything (they can still use weapon skills) for mismanaging the utility cool down. For example you might add a 25 energy cost to facet of light with a 3 energy upkeep until infuse light is used and in conjunction with the rest of the utilities having a cost and upkeep. This means you could make the stunbreak cost 30 energy and 3 upkeep so if you legend swap and hit facet of light you can't stunbreak for 1s and if you use another facet instead of the stunbreak you'll not have enough energy to stunbreak if you upkeep facet of light.

This means you won't be sitting on facets and be encouraged to use them, get some benefit then burn them and think more careful than use strength and element in glint, swap shiro and kite, swap glint and use strength and element again, heal/stunbreak as required without worry.

Dear god no, shelve this terrible idea.

[Kulvar.1239]

@Fueki.4753 said:Revenants needs a rework, not just nerfs.

I'd settle for higher Energy costs on Utility though, if they remove Energy costs from weapon skills.

So you want to turn the class into a cooldown based class ? If that would happen, I would just delete my character.What I like in the Revenant is the energy. If it turns into a sluggish class where you use utility once in forever, I would reroll Firebrand or Weaver.

The solution to balance Revenant is to give it more base weapons, split each core legend into 2 legends doing similar things, and reduce what the utility skills do.So you get more build diversity, but each utility skill does less on their own for the same cost.Or for a simpler way to do it : allow for each legend to be equipped twice, increase the amount of utility skills available (6 per legend), make each utility do less by itself. If you equip the same legend twice, the heal and elite skill cooldowns are lowered by 10s on legend swap.

[Emapudapus.1307]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Tayga.3192 said:Top 50 has 14 or so revs

Lol

good players like rev, thats why there is 14 peeps there :)mesmer and warrior are boring for good players, thats why there is only 2 of them total :)

Good players like rev because its broken. Proffesion stacked in every mAT.

[Shao.7236]

Heralds and Renegades have always been free kills for me. What's the deal?

[Eugchriss.2046]

@Kulvar.1239 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:Revenants needs a rework, not just nerfs.

I'd settle for higher Energy costs on Utility though, if they remove Energy costs from weapon skills.

So you get more build diversity, but each utility skill does less on their own for the same cost.Or for a simpler way to do it : allow for each legend to be equipped twice, increase the amount of utility skills available (6 per legend), make each utility do less by itself. If you equip the same legend twice, the heal and elite skill cooldowns are lowered by 10s on legend swap.Double herald with 20 secs cd at worse and 10secs cd at best for infuse light. Or double kalla. perma life steal + close to perma cc....So much for the build diversity.

[Buran.3796]

@Shao.7236 said:Heralds and Renegades have always been free kills for me. What's the deal?

But you run core Rev. People won't be happy if they need to run Rev to counter Rev.

[Shao.7236]

@Buran.3796 said:

@Shao.7236 said:Heralds and Renegades have always been free kills for me. What's the deal?

But you run core Rev. People won't be happy if they need to run Rev to counter Rev.

I ain't going to say it's because I'm running core rev only though. A lot of people have been overhyping Renegade and Herald while they have glaring weaknesses that are rarely exploited. If anything Revenants shouldn't be dominating at all because they're all played the same way most of the time. You'd think people would know by now how to play against one. They're not great duelist either compared core because of their lack of versatility, one exceeds only a bunking certain types of pressure while the other is only good at jumping on people then run away because they can't risk taking too many hits.

I'd hate having to explain myself again on it or how it's done. Like, it's a blatant weakness to exploit when Revenants attack first because if that fails, they have half less the potential to defend themselves against anything after the initial engagement.

[Kulvar.1239]

@Eugchriss.2046 said:

@Kulvar.1239 said:

@"Fueki.4753" said:Revenants needs a rework, not just nerfs.

I'd settle for higher Energy costs on Utility though, if they remove Energy costs from weapon skills.

So you get more build diversity, but each utility skill does less on their own for the same cost.Or for a simpler way to do it : allow for each legend to be equipped twice, increase the amount of utility skills available (6 per legend), make each utility do less by itself. If you equip the same legend twice, the heal and elite skill cooldowns are lowered by 10s on legend swap.Double herald with 20 secs cd at worse and 10secs cd at best for infuse light. Or double kalla. perma life steal + close to perma cc....So much for the build diversity.

Other solution would be to lower cooldown by 50%. Or have a separate cooldown for each "legend".If new legends are added, using twice the same legend wouldn't exist anyway. Otherwise, maybe elite spec legends can't be equipped twice.Or maybe it's not necessary and just adding core weapons and more utility doing less things on their own is enough.

Added core weapons could beMallyx: Scepter (range condition, no projectile)Ventari: Focus (grant Aegis to allies, grant Light Aura to allies)Shiro: Daggers (range thrown projectile)Jalis: Greatsword (defensive melee)

Utility skill rework could beVentari: Moving tablet is free, new skill that stun break if disabled or give Stability to allies (reactive or proactive use), new skill granting Barrier (spike damage reduction)Jalis: new skill that give Vigor to allies, new skill that daze a targetMallyx: A new skill pull 1 target from 1200 range, a new AoE skill apply Bleeding and CrippleShiro: Impossible Odds become the elite skill, Jade Winds become a utility skill that stun 1 target for 1 second, Riposting Shadows only breaks stun and dodge, Phase Traversal is a targetable teleport that doesn't give Quickness or unblockable but remove movement impairing conditions, a new skill give unblockable, a new skill give Fury and Quickness.Brill: The 2 new facets could give Vigor and Retaliation, no idea what the consume could be.Kalla: Split Darkrazor's Daring, one skill Daze and deal damage, the other breaks stun and give Stability; split Icerazor's Ire, one deal good damage and Cripple in AoE, the other deal damage and apply Vulnerability spread on the targets in range.

Energy cost would have to get a few balance iterations after such changes.

It's 2 AM, I'll probably think that some of these ideas are stupid tomorrow, but feel free to give your opinion too !

[Fueki.4753]

@Kulvar.1239 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:Revenants needs a rework, not just nerfs.

I'd settle for higher Energy costs on Utility though, if they remove Energy costs from weapon skills.

So you want to turn the class into a cooldown based class ?

You realize that it already has cooldowns, right?Having no Energy on weapon skills simply gives yo more energy to use your utility skills you otherwise couldn't use due to the energy limit, while you can use your weapon freely without considering the loss of utility.

[Kulvar.1239]

@Fueki.4753 said:

@Kulvar.1239 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:Revenants needs a rework, not just nerfs.

I'd settle for higher Energy costs on Utility though, if they remove Energy costs from weapon skills.

So you want to turn the class into a cooldown based class ?

You realize that it already has cooldowns, right?Having no Energy on weapon skills simply gives yo more energy to use your utility skills you otherwise couldn't use due to the energy limit, while you can use your weapon freely without considering the loss of utility.

Currently, cooldowns on the Revenant skills only exists to prevent spam abuse, which I'm fine with.ANet is slowly going away from cooldown by putting more and more skills on the ammo system in other classes.

[Fueki.4753]

@Kulvar.1239 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:

@Kulvar.1239 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:Revenants needs a rework, not just nerfs.

I'd settle for higher Energy costs on Utility though, if they remove Energy costs from weapon skills.

So you want to turn the class into a cooldown based class ?

You realize that it already has cooldowns, right?Having no Energy on weapon skills simply gives yo more energy to use your utility skills you otherwise couldn't use due to the energy limit, while you can use your weapon freely without considering the loss of utility.

Currently, cooldowns on the Revenant skills only exists to prevent spam abuse, which I'm fine with.ANet is slowly going away from cooldown by putting more and more skills on the ammo system in other classes.

The increase of Ammo skills doesn't show any "going away", since they also have cooldowns.Adding Ammo functionality to skills, like they did with warrior rifle, is no more than a bandaid fix.