People please stop picking on Thief/Deadeye.

[NuhDah.9812]

@Armen.1483 said:

@"NuhDah.9812" said:I understand that some professions/builds have more difficulty than others to deal with them, but their oneshotting isn't the issue since it's easily avoidable if you're not half asleep. That being said malicious bs was way worse back in its time before nerfs, but dj it's almost like screaming to you:hey, watch out, I'm coming, use a dodge!Explain one thing to me: are people who died to that oneshot were just blind half asleep noobs ? If yes: Is it fun stomping noobs, why not just kill mobs in Queensdale ? If no: What's the point of playing that build if you can't kill anything with it, wouldn't it be better to change those "oneshot shiny" skills with something better ?

I'm not here to comment on people prefered gameplay choices even though for your yes/no follow-ups would be interesting to debate their ojective relevance, though I'm not gonna go there. For some it might be fun, for others silly, for others off-putting. Everyone has their tastes. But yeah, to answer your first question, if you die right now from a dj, either your surrounding awareness is low, either you're that inexperienced with the game that you don't realise what's coming, either you're messing around or you're simply within a larger fight were it's reasonable to miss something like dj due to high visual noise and lag. Either way, leaving aside the last situation, it's all on you, and you can't complain about other things since you didn't take the necessary precautions to avoid your sudden death on the battlefield.

[Armen.1483]

@NuhDah.9812 , you just proved my point. It was overpoweved and you were just having fun playing an overpowered class. I am a gamer too, I know that feeling. So just be honost with yourself. It is not others that are bad, it is you that are bad and have to be overpowered to have fun. Here is a tip for you: go play ranger (until it gets nerfed), I am sure you will like it. Then when it gets nerfed, make a post like this.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Armen.1483 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:I mean DE is

very

far from oneshotting.Now yes, wasn't like that before the big patch.

It was the exact same way before the patch. The only thing the build uses that got any nerf is DJ, and a DJ without malice didnt do much damage before the patch either.

And if he decides to try and build up malice, he will be short on initiative and unable to run.This is exactly where the problem is imo. In real game just running away with ms runes and using the terrain is easy enough to get your malice back. Not that using the malice stuns thief for 30 seconds lol.

No, in the real game trying to run without shortbow 5 ends with every mobile class rushing you down and killing you, and every ranged class sniping you down and killing you.

Thats actually one of the big reasons the build is awful.It is actually not the most frustrating thing to play against. It was just a simple example. And it is easy to comment only on that and ignore all my other points.

Its the only thing you mentioned specifically. So I will specifically respond.

The other is that it gets completely screwed by reflects.Because every build MUST have a reflect, right ?

No, but a few builds will incidentally have reflects anyway. Including Mesmer.

And the third that any mobile class just gets ontop of the DE and kills him.You mean another thief ? Yes that is my problem exactly.

Nah. Thief, Rev, Warrior, Mesmer, Ranger and even Burn Guard all can do it easily. Probably weaver too. Only Necro and Engineer cant, and playing Engineer, I cant even say DE bothers me. Because even those 2 have easy answers. Necro can fight back at the same range, and Engineer has either pulls or reflects or can just get outta there.

Also its funny that you think thief shouldnt be slippery and do damage, while you play Mesmer, a class that does exactly that.Who told you I play mesmer in PVP ? And btw I think quite the opposite. I think that mesmer has the exact same problem as thief. Badly balanced, it is either op or useless. I'd rather see both mesmer and thief useless than op. But better get both fixed. That was my point. But you rather pick up on 1 sentence that I said and just take the conversation to other direction. Well played thief ! Slippery in games and slippery in forums :p

Well, you, a while back.

[NuhDah.9812]

@Armen.1483 said:@NuhDah.9812 , you just proved my point. It was overpoweved and you were just having fun playing an overpowered class. I am a gamer too, I know that feeling. So just be honost with yourself. It is not others that are bad, it is you that are bad and have to be overpowered to have fun. Here is a tip for you: go play ranger (until it gets nerfed), I am sure you will like it. Then when it gets nerfed, make a post like this.

Woh, so you are that kind of person who reads something and interprets it to match their beliefs just to prove a point for themselves even though what's written there has nothing to do with the conclusion you want approval for... Basically you just want to listen to yourself and ignore what everyone else says. Well, good luck, with that sort of attitude you'll go far.

[Armen.1483]

Yes you are both absolutely right.. no wonder there are no thiefs in top playerbase.Meanwhile in a neighbour forum thread "@Falan.1839" posted top 50 NA pvpers

1. Blackmerlin - Thief [Alt]
2. Sauron - Thief
3. Bluri - Thief
4. Corail - Nec
5. Cerberus - Thief
6. Fly - Thief/Multiclass
7. Mesmer Sebi - Rev
8. Belzedar - Rev
9. Gornit - Nec
10. MedsHan - Ranger
11. Viquing - Mes
12. TallBarr - Guard
13. Domoscrub - Nec
14. Gebranodant - Ranger/Multiclass
15. Pomelanio - Multiclass
16. Numb - Rev
17. Galhaldir - Thief/Rev
18. Suffish - Multiclass
19. Pouloulou - Rev
20. Masterofdisaster - Mes
21. Erazik - Ranger
22. Lorddavito - Ranger
23. Ultrasnob - Rev/Multiclass
24. Troublemaker - Guard
25. Jiyu - Guard
26. Luana - Mes/Rev
27. Okina - Engi
28. DarkWolf - ???
29. Ambra - Ele
30. Sukaya - Engi
31. Captaine Fox - Ranger
32. Erzian - Ranger
33. Trekolon - Thief/Ranger
34. ImTheBoss - Mes/Rev
35. TheRealBriBri – Rev/Nec
36. ShangriLa - Ele
37. ASV - Multiclass?
38. Mcees - Nec
39. Meteor - Nec
40. Rednaxela - Ele
41. HenrikLP - ???
42. Splash - Ranger
43. Undeadchocobo - Guard
44. Falan - Engi
45. Pepe - Guard/Nec
46. Envergure - Warr/Ranger
47. Elvina - Nec
48. Tisar - Thief
49. Dezaq Nec/Ranger
50. Kaitori Thief

[Armen.1483]

And I will leave this here just in case anyone here is interested about thief spot in the meta...

[HowlKamui.5120]

People love hating on theives :anguished:

Just had a match on my deadeye where I +1'd a lot of fights and decapped really well. We won ~500-300 but at the player stats screen (I got most kills tied with one other guy, and top offense), my teammate just randomly said "ez 5v4, deadeye dead weight" for no reason. Didn't affect me that much but it was so out of the blue.

[UNOwen.7132]

@"Armen.1483" said:Yes you are both absolutely right.. no wonder there are no thiefs in top playerbase.Meanwhile in a neighbour forum thread "@Falan.1839" posted top 50 NA pvpers

1. Blackmerlin - Thief [Alt]
2. Sauron - Thief
3. Bluri - Thief
4. Corail - Nec
5. Cerberus - Thief
6. Fly - Thief/Multiclass
7. Mesmer Sebi - Rev
8. Belzedar - Rev
9. Gornit - Nec
10. MedsHan - Ranger
11. Viquing - Mes
12. TallBarr - Guard
13. Domoscrub - Nec
14. Gebranodant - Ranger/Multiclass
15. Pomelanio - Multiclass
16. Numb - Rev
17. Galhaldir - Thief/Rev
18. Suffish - Multiclass
19. Pouloulou - Rev
20. Masterofdisaster - Mes
21. Erazik - Ranger
22. Lorddavito - Ranger
23. Ultrasnob - Rev/Multiclass
24. Troublemaker - Guard
25. Jiyu - Guard
26. Luana - Mes/Rev
27. Okina - Engi
28. DarkWolf - ???
29. Ambra - Ele
30. Sukaya - Engi
31. Captaine Fox - Ranger
32. Erzian - Ranger
33. Trekolon - Thief/Ranger
34. ImTheBoss - Mes/Rev
35. TheRealBriBri – Rev/Nec
36. ShangriLa - Ele
37. ASV - Multiclass?
38. Mcees - Nec
39. Meteor - Nec
40. Rednaxela - Ele
41. HenrikLP - ???
42. Splash - Ranger
43. Undeadchocobo - Guard
44. Falan - Engi
45. Pepe - Guard/Nec
46. Envergure - Warr/Ranger
47. Elvina - Nec
48. Tisar - Thief
49. Dezaq Nec/Ranger
50. Kaitori Thief

I love the "Thief/Multiclass" if they play multiple classes including thief, but just "Multiclass" if they dont. Also more necros than thieves (if you dont include the alt) in there. Clearly we must nerf necro.

[Vashuddha.1538]

@"Maldek.4739" said:I have been playing guild wars 2 for a few months now. I came here from old republic. I was a GW1 player for 14 years. I chose thief, and then i got deadeye and i enjoy it. However, i was dissapointed to see that thief here does not have infinite cloaking ability, something assassins on old republic have. I was also dissapointed to learn that before i came deadeye rifle damage was nerfed 20%. I have heard that poeple complained about deadeye being "too powerful" and i have heard poeple complaining about thief having unlimited cloak (swtor players never complained about assassins there having that). It seems to me that there are plenty of other classes that get away with WAY more damage and overpower than deadeye. Necros for one. I feel rifle damage is too low, even with signets, buffs etc. I have also noticed that when shooting a target from an elevated position, the targets health will almost always regen, but when you are ground level with the target, then they suddenly lose that health regen ability. Seriously, how much "nerfing" do you want deadeye to have at this point before its an entirely useless class? people love to complain about other classes being "overpowered" until its THIER main class...then suddenly it is an issue. I would ask to...IN THE LEAST...leave deadeye and thief in general alone at this point. It seems to me the class has been hit WAY too hard. I should add..and i am being honest here...that i have spoken to quite a few players in game that do not agree with deadeye being nerfed so badly. They are upset about it and feel its unfair but for some reason its like they are scared to say something. This is my honest humble opinion.

Deadeye needs a serious nerf. The fact that a thief, which ironically is not a ranged class, can snipe you from 1500 distance, hit you for like 5-8k on one shot, stealth, randomly appear on another location and keep a significant distance gap, snipe you for another 6-8k, and then disappear again without leaving a trace before you can close distance is just ridiculous. i'm surprised that Anet has not done anything about this yet.

[saerni.2584]

@Vashuddha.1538 said:

@"Maldek.4739" said:I have been playing guild wars 2 for a few months now. I came here from old republic. I was a GW1 player for 14 years. I chose thief, and then i got deadeye and i enjoy it. However, i was dissapointed to see that thief here does not have infinite cloaking ability, something assassins on old republic have. I was also dissapointed to learn that before i came deadeye rifle damage was nerfed 20%. I have heard that poeple complained about deadeye being "too powerful" and i have heard poeple complaining about thief having unlimited cloak (swtor players never complained about assassins there having that). It seems to me that there are plenty of other classes that get away with WAY more damage and overpower than deadeye. Necros for one. I feel rifle damage is too low, even with signets, buffs etc. I have also noticed that when shooting a target from an elevated position, the targets health will almost always regen, but when you are ground level with the target, then they suddenly lose that health regen ability. Seriously, how much "nerfing" do you want deadeye to have at this point before its an entirely useless class? people love to complain about other classes being "overpowered" until its THIER main class...then suddenly it is an issue. I would ask to...IN THE LEAST...leave deadeye and thief in general alone at this point. It seems to me the class has been hit WAY too hard. I should add..and i am being honest here...that i have spoken to quite a few players in game that do not agree with deadeye being nerfed so badly. They are upset about it and feel its unfair but for some reason its like they are scared to say something. This is my honest humble opinion.

Deadeye needs a serious nerf. The fact that a thief, which ironically is not a ranged class, can snipe you from 1500 distance, hit you for like 5-8k on one shot, stealth, randomly appear on another location and keep a significant distance gap, snipe you for another 6-8k, and then disappear again without leaving a trace before you can close distance is just ridiculous. i'm surprised that Anet has not done anything about this yet.

So Anet designs a ranged thief spec and you conclude thief is not ranged so Deadeye should be nerfed so it can’t do damage on par with other ranged specs?

What? How do you expect to win this argument with Anet?

[UNOwen.7132]

@Vashuddha.1538 said:

@"Maldek.4739" said:I have been playing guild wars 2 for a few months now. I came here from old republic. I was a GW1 player for 14 years. I chose thief, and then i got deadeye and i enjoy it. However, i was dissapointed to see that thief here does not have infinite cloaking ability, something assassins on old republic have. I was also dissapointed to learn that before i came deadeye rifle damage was nerfed 20%. I have heard that poeple complained about deadeye being "too powerful" and i have heard poeple complaining about thief having unlimited cloak (swtor players never complained about assassins there having that). It seems to me that there are plenty of other classes that get away with WAY more damage and overpower than deadeye. Necros for one. I feel rifle damage is too low, even with signets, buffs etc. I have also noticed that when shooting a target from an elevated position, the targets health will almost always regen, but when you are ground level with the target, then they suddenly lose that health regen ability. Seriously, how much "nerfing" do you want deadeye to have at this point before its an entirely useless class? people love to complain about other classes being "overpowered" until its THIER main class...then suddenly it is an issue. I would ask to...IN THE LEAST...leave deadeye and thief in general alone at this point. It seems to me the class has been hit WAY too hard. I should add..and i am being honest here...that i have spoken to quite a few players in game that do not agree with deadeye being nerfed so badly. They are upset about it and feel its unfair but for some reason its like they are scared to say something. This is my honest humble opinion.

Deadeye needs a serious nerf. The fact that a thief, which ironically is not a ranged class, can snipe you from 1500 distance, hit you for like 5-8k on one shot, stealth, randomly appear on another location and keep a significant distance gap, snipe you for another 6-8k, and then disappear again without leaving a trace before you can close distance is just ridiculous. i'm surprised that Anet has not done anything about this yet.

Deadeye is so underpowered it needs a buff, not a nerf. Elite Specs let classes do things they normally dont do, thats the point of elite specs (besides thief is only not a ranged class because they didnt even give P/P a chance to be good). The thief wont snipe you from 1500 distance (because then you take 1 step back and their projectiles misses. And thats ignoring that that would require them to use kneel, which they dont because kneeled skills are a lot worse than unkneeled ones). That "one shot" that hits your for 8k is so telegraphed that, unless you got the unlucky bug, you should not have been hit by in any situation. And besides the ranged classes that can just fire back and kill thief, projectile denial and so on, melee classes in fact can close the distance very quickly and just kill the DE.

[Doug.4930]

@Vashuddha.1538 said:Deadeye needs a serious nerf.

@UNOwen.7132 said:Deadeye is so underpowered it needs a buff,

Oh thief never has there ever been a more divisive class. Either its a fluffy bunny that couldn't harm a fly, or its the spawn on satan that can take on 10 people at once while hitting for 50K

@Vashuddha.1538 said:can snipe you from 1500 distance, hit you for like 5-8k on one shot, stealth, randomly appear on another location and keep a significant distance gap, snipe you for another 6-8k, and then disappear again without leaving a trace before you can close distance is just ridiculous. i'm surprised that Anet has not done anything about this yet.

See this isn't really true. After the damage nerf no DE can hit someone for 5-8k consistently and constantly without building malice first unless you're running full glass with rares. Furthermore if you're getting hit with Deaths judgement alone constantly without it chaining immob/quickness or CC then there's something wrong with how you're playing, especially if its at 1500 units and thus giving you even more time to dodge.

@UNOwen.7132 said:Deadeye is so underpowered it needs a buff, not a nerf. Elite Specs let classes do things they normally dont do, thats the point of elite specs (besides thief is only not a ranged class because they didnt even give P/P a chance to be good).

See and here we have this which is also untrue. DE is more certainly not underpowered. Its one of the best roamers in WvW in my opinion. It does not need buffing.

@Vashuddha.1538The reason people are reacting so negatively to your posts is because you're bringing your points from a position of ignorance. Its clear that your only experience with the class is through victim lenses. The only examples you give for imbalance is that its pews for too much damage then disappears. If you want your views to be taken with less hostility you need to approach the discussion from a point of view thats either more educated about the inner workings of the class, or with a more open mind to the possibility you could be wrong. You claim to want a civil discussion but the way you word your arguments is from a position of absolute certainty, when its clear that you know next to nothing about the class. This has been the case with all of your threads.

My advice which If I were a betting man is advice you have not followed remains the same:Make the class you struggle against and play it. The best way to know if a class is overpowered is to play it yourself. Then, if you still remain unconvinced you'll be able to approach the topic with some knowledge of the classes inner workings and be able to greater articulate exactly what about the class makes it overpowered. This way you'll be far more likely to be met with more replies that encourage a discourse.

[sector.9634]

@"Vashuddha.1538" said:

Deadeye needs a serious nerf.

This is your opinion. Not true and only bc you want belive it becomes not more true.Ok. You have a peoblem with this class.This do not mean the majority of players have a problem with this class.

In fact many ppl beat a casual de easy.

If the class would be, as you trying to tell us, more ppl would play itAnd many ppl try it.

And they stopped, bc they get punched into the ground fast & most of the time & laughed about.

You do not speak for the playerbase.

Where are the hordes of de's in wvw or the top 250 player in pvp dominated by de.

If this post should be a joke, is not even funny.

Edit:Maybe you play without sound or watch tv or semiafk while playing writting on a messenger.. dont know.There is a anoying "Beeeeeee" which is not your smokedetector, its the soznd of a de targeting you for a dj. In this case you perform a doge.

Use barrier, blocks, los, coverfrom pets/ minions invuls, reflects, interrupts or what your class offer. Use your ability to move. And do not play semiafk.De needs a serious nerf.. cant be serious.. must be a not funny joke.Maybe it needs a little push, a few buffs, not sure, but seriously not a nerf.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Doug.4930 said:

@Vashuddha.1538 said:Deadeye needs a serious nerf.

@UNOwen.7132 said:Deadeye is so underpowered it needs a buff,

Oh thief never has there ever been a more divisive class. Either its a fluffy bunny that couldn't harm a fly, or its the spawn on satan that can take on 10 people at once while hitting for 50K

One of those is closer to the truth, than the other.

@Vashuddha.1538 said:can snipe you from 1500 distance, hit you for like 5-8k on one shot, stealth, randomly appear on another location and keep a significant distance gap, snipe you for another 6-8k, and then disappear again without leaving a trace before you can close distance is just ridiculous. i'm surprised that Anet has not done anything about this yet.

See this isn't really true. After the damage nerf no DE can hit someone for 5-8k consistently and constantly without building malice first unless you're running full glass with rares. Furthermore if you're getting hit with Deaths judgement alone constantly without it chaining immob/quickness or CC then there's something wrong with how you're playing, especially if its at 1500 units and thus giving you even more time to dodge.

And this is why DE sucks.

@UNOwen.7132 said:Deadeye is so underpowered it needs a buff, not a nerf. Elite Specs let classes do things they normally dont do, thats the point of elite specs (besides thief is only not a ranged class because they didnt even give P/P a chance to be good).

See and here we have this which is also untrue. DE is more certainly not underpowered. Its one of the best roamers in WvW in my opinion. It does not need buffing.

It is. Its damage relies mostly on Deaths Judgment that no enemy should be hit by. It suffers against other ranged classes that survive and do damage better, against highly mobile melee classes that can just kill the DE if he doesnt save his initiative to run away, against classes that run hard projectile denial, and against condi classes because, well, thief struggles with condis in general. That just happens to describe every roamer in WvW. Granted, personally Id rather have DE be reworked, cutting kneel and making double tap more useful than just a straight buff, but its in a trash state.