Revenants.....

[TeqkOneStylez.8047]

@Fueki.4753 said:

@Kulvar.1239 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:

@Kulvar.1239 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:Revenants needs a rework, not just nerfs.

I'd settle for higher Energy costs on Utility though, if they remove Energy costs from weapon skills.

So you want to turn the class into a cooldown based class ?

You realize that it already has cooldowns, right?Having no Energy on weapon skills simply gives yo more energy to use your utility skills you otherwise couldn't use due to the energy limit, while you can use your weapon freely without considering the loss of utility.

Currently, cooldowns on the Revenant skills only exists to prevent spam abuse, which I'm fine with.ANet is slowly going away from cooldown by putting more and more skills on the ammo system in other classes.

The increase of Ammo skills doesn't show any "going away", since they also have cooldowns.Adding Ammo functionality to skills, like they did with warrior rifle, is no more than a bandaid fix.

In the case of rifle its putting a bandaid on a missing limb.

But I agree

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

@Koen.1327protection: one might think glint elite for nerfed cuz of 0 dmg, but i would say it got buffed with the cd reduction because you casually get more protection uptime since you have draconic echo ticking way too much for you. Aoe protection btw

This isn’t just a “lower CD” issue, but also a bug with Glint’s facets issue. Currently, it’s possible in some situations to be able to re-activate a facet even if it’s supposed to be on CD. Happens a fair amount as well; not just some random bug that never occurs.

[apharma.3741]

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@apharma.3741 said:One thing I'd like to see is energy cost removed from weapon abilities for rev. Then they can focus on the energy cost/upkeep costs for the utility skills with small cool downs to prevent back to back use.

This means you can start making Glint have costs and upkeep to properly manage without leaving a rev unable to do anything (they can still use weapon skills) for mismanaging the utility cool down. For example you might add a 25 energy cost to facet of light with a 3 energy upkeep until infuse light is used and in conjunction with the rest of the utilities having a cost and upkeep. This means you could make the stunbreak cost 30 energy and 3 upkeep so if you legend swap and hit facet of light you can't stunbreak for 1s and if you use another facet instead of the stunbreak you'll not have enough energy to stunbreak if you upkeep facet of light.

This means you won't be sitting on facets and be encouraged to use them, get some benefit then burn them and think more careful than use strength and element in glint, swap shiro and kite, swap glint and use strength and element again, heal/stunbreak as required without worry.

Dear god no, shelve this terrible idea.

Glint basically has no energy management thought needed unless you want to sit on passive boons, bringing it in line with the rest of the class is something that's been needed since day 1 of HoT. Removing energy costs from weapon abilities is needed to properly balance rev energy costs.

[CutesySylveon.8290]

@apharma.3741 said:

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@apharma.3741 said:One thing I'd like to see is energy cost removed from weapon abilities for rev. Then they can focus on the energy cost/upkeep costs for the utility skills with small cool downs to prevent back to back use.

This means you can start making Glint have costs and upkeep to properly manage without leaving a rev unable to do anything (they can still use weapon skills) for mismanaging the utility cool down. For example you might add a 25 energy cost to facet of light with a 3 energy upkeep until infuse light is used and in conjunction with the rest of the utilities having a cost and upkeep. This means you could make the stunbreak cost 30 energy and 3 upkeep so if you legend swap and hit facet of light you can't stunbreak for 1s and if you use another facet instead of the stunbreak you'll not have enough energy to stunbreak if you upkeep facet of light.

This means you won't be sitting on facets and be encouraged to use them, get some benefit then burn them and think more careful than use strength and element in glint, swap shiro and kite, swap glint and use strength and element again, heal/stunbreak as required without worry.

Dear god no, shelve this terrible idea.

Glint basically has no energy management thought needed unless you want to sit on passive boons, bringing it in line with the rest of the class is something that's been needed since day 1 of HoT. Removing energy costs from weapon abilities is needed to properly balance rev energy costs.

That's the entire point of her skills; she's the energy management legend. You decide how much energy you want to dedicate to whatever boons you want, Draconic Echo is another thing entirely to deal with. She's the only legend that actually functions differently from others by only using upkeeps as primary costs, which is actually more in line with what an Espec is supposed to do. What needed to happen from day 1 was removing weapon swap and rebalancing the weapon skills like was originally intended to be which was to be useful across more builds, but they never did it.

[Scoobaniec.9561]

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@apharma.3741 said:One thing I'd like to see is energy cost removed from weapon abilities for rev. Then they can focus on the energy cost/upkeep costs for the utility skills with small cool downs to prevent back to back use.

This means you can start making Glint have costs and upkeep to properly manage without leaving a rev unable to do anything (they can still use weapon skills) for mismanaging the utility cool down. For example you might add a 25 energy cost to facet of light with a 3 energy upkeep until infuse light is used and in conjunction with the rest of the utilities having a cost and upkeep. This means you could make the stunbreak cost 30 energy and 3 upkeep so if you legend swap and hit facet of light you can't stunbreak for 1s and if you use another facet instead of the stunbreak you'll not have enough energy to stunbreak if you upkeep facet of light.

This means you won't be sitting on facets and be encouraged to use them, get some benefit then burn them and think more careful than use strength and element in glint, swap shiro and kite, swap glint and use strength and element again, heal/stunbreak as required without worry.

Dear god no, shelve this terrible idea.

Glint basically has no energy management thought needed unless you want to sit on passive boons, bringing it in line with the rest of the class is something that's been needed since day 1 of HoT. Removing energy costs from weapon abilities is needed to properly balance rev energy costs.

That's the entire point of her skills; she's the energy management legend. You decide how much energy you want to dedicate to whatever boons you want, Draconic Echo is another thing entirely to deal with. She's the only legend that actually functions differently from others by only using upkeeps as primary costs, which is actually more in line with what an Espec is supposed to do. What needed to happen from day 1 was removing weapon swap and rebalancing the weapon skills like was originally intended to be which was to be useful across more builds, but they never did it.

Legit weapon swap as bandaid ruined a lot of things. they need to take it back and rebalance stuff over. Revenat is.. well was perfectly playable with just one weapon set until recent nerfs.

[Fueki.4753]

@Scoobaniec.9561 said:

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@apharma.3741 said:One thing I'd like to see is energy cost removed from weapon abilities for rev. Then they can focus on the energy cost/upkeep costs for the utility skills with small cool downs to prevent back to back use.

This means you can start making Glint have costs and upkeep to properly manage without leaving a rev unable to do anything (they can still use weapon skills) for mismanaging the utility cool down. For example you might add a 25 energy cost to facet of light with a 3 energy upkeep until infuse light is used and in conjunction with the rest of the utilities having a cost and upkeep. This means you could make the stunbreak cost 30 energy and 3 upkeep so if you legend swap and hit facet of light you can't stunbreak for 1s and if you use another facet instead of the stunbreak you'll not have enough energy to stunbreak if you upkeep facet of light.

This means you won't be sitting on facets and be encouraged to use them, get some benefit then burn them and think more careful than use strength and element in glint, swap shiro and kite, swap glint and use strength and element again, heal/stunbreak as required without worry.

Dear god no, shelve this terrible idea.

Glint basically has no energy management thought needed unless you want to sit on passive boons, bringing it in line with the rest of the class is something that's been needed since day 1 of HoT. Removing energy costs from weapon abilities is needed to properly balance rev energy costs.

That's the entire point of her skills; she's the energy management legend. You decide how much energy you want to dedicate to whatever boons you want, Draconic Echo is another thing entirely to deal with. She's the only legend that actually functions differently from others by only using upkeeps as primary costs, which is actually more in line with what an Espec is supposed to do. What needed to happen from day 1 was removing weapon swap and rebalancing the weapon skills like was originally intended to be which was to be useful across more builds, but they never did it.

Legit weapon swap as bandaid ruined a lot of things. they need to take it back and rebalance stuff over. Revenat is.. well was perfectly playable with just one weapon set until recent nerfs.

It still works fine with only one weapon set.Since they ruined Hammer, I hardly swap in PvE anymore.In PvP I don't even have anything meaningful to swap to on my condi build.

[Kuma.1503]

Maybe it's because I spent so much time playing one, but I don't struggle much with revs. I've learned not to hit IL, to pressure them when they've used utilities due to high energy costs, to bait out stunbreaks from them because even if they do break stun, they've significantly limited their own offensive pressure. I've learned to watch their boons. If they don't gain resistance after using an elite, they're not running rune of res, and they're going to be weak to conditions. If they're Mallyx, I kite them and avoid their obvious animations on moves like mace 3 and axe 5.

What I would like to see done:

Rev is strong, but plenty exploitable. If it needs anything, it's reworks rather than nerfs. Sword 3 needs to have double the range on the after cast so it doesn't fail to latch, Staff 5 needs the self root removed so it's aimable (keep the windup), Shortbow and Hammer could both use reworks. Hammer only sees play in WvW and is mostly dead everywhere else, limiting an already small pool of weapons.

As a trade off for these quality of life fixes, I'd happily give up weapon swap. Even in PvE, Rev isn't in desperate need of weapon swap anyway. So long as the weapons themselves are well designed. You spend your time camping sword as Renegade and PHerald and only use staff when you need CC. Crev can be played viably while camping Mace/Axe.

Staff would need to be redone in order to make it a better stand-alone weapon.

[apharma.3741]

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@apharma.3741 said:One thing I'd like to see is energy cost removed from weapon abilities for rev. Then they can focus on the energy cost/upkeep costs for the utility skills with small cool downs to prevent back to back use.

This means you can start making Glint have costs and upkeep to properly manage without leaving a rev unable to do anything (they can still use weapon skills) for mismanaging the utility cool down. For example you might add a 25 energy cost to facet of light with a 3 energy upkeep until infuse light is used and in conjunction with the rest of the utilities having a cost and upkeep. This means you could make the stunbreak cost 30 energy and 3 upkeep so if you legend swap and hit facet of light you can't stunbreak for 1s and if you use another facet instead of the stunbreak you'll not have enough energy to stunbreak if you upkeep facet of light.

This means you won't be sitting on facets and be encouraged to use them, get some benefit then burn them and think more careful than use strength and element in glint, swap shiro and kite, swap glint and use strength and element again, heal/stunbreak as required without worry.

Dear god no, shelve this terrible idea.

Glint basically has no energy management thought needed unless you want to sit on passive boons, bringing it in line with the rest of the class is something that's been needed since day 1 of HoT. Removing energy costs from weapon abilities is needed to properly balance rev energy costs.

That's the entire point of her skills; she's the energy management legend. You decide how much energy you want to dedicate to whatever boons you want, Draconic Echo is another thing entirely to deal with. She's the only legend that actually functions differently from others by only using upkeeps as primary costs, which is actually more in line with what an Espec is supposed to do. What needed to happen from day 1 was removing weapon swap and rebalancing the weapon skills like was originally intended to be which was to be useful across more builds, but they never did it.

I played rev with no weapon swap, it wasn't good, the only way to get around it would be for weapon skills to change based on legend used which would be a lot of work every time a new elite spec came which would be unmanageable long term for the dev team. Think about it, every class that has a single weapon has a way to change it's weapon skills or gets extra somewhere else which was missing from rev at it's core concept and couldn't be added without essentially copying another class.

"Energy management legend" pull the other one, it was supposed to be about that but it's ended up being the most energy efficient legend by far without needing to really think about energy management and this was before draconic echo was added. Glint needs a drastic energy cost change to bring it closer in line with core for energy management or it will forever be a first pick and the rest of the class and it's problems will remain covered by Glint.

[CutesySylveon.8290]

@apharma.3741 said:

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@apharma.3741 said:One thing I'd like to see is energy cost removed from weapon abilities for rev. Then they can focus on the energy cost/upkeep costs for the utility skills with small cool downs to prevent back to back use.

This means you can start making Glint have costs and upkeep to properly manage without leaving a rev unable to do anything (they can still use weapon skills) for mismanaging the utility cool down. For example you might add a 25 energy cost to facet of light with a 3 energy upkeep until infuse light is used and in conjunction with the rest of the utilities having a cost and upkeep. This means you could make the stunbreak cost 30 energy and 3 upkeep so if you legend swap and hit facet of light you can't stunbreak for 1s and if you use another facet instead of the stunbreak you'll not have enough energy to stunbreak if you upkeep facet of light.

This means you won't be sitting on facets and be encouraged to use them, get some benefit then burn them and think more careful than use strength and element in glint, swap shiro and kite, swap glint and use strength and element again, heal/stunbreak as required without worry.

Dear god no, shelve this terrible idea.

Glint basically has no energy management thought needed unless you want to sit on passive boons, bringing it in line with the rest of the class is something that's been needed since day 1 of HoT. Removing energy costs from weapon abilities is needed to properly balance rev energy costs.

That's the entire point of her skills; she's the energy management legend. You decide how much energy you want to dedicate to whatever boons you want, Draconic Echo is another thing entirely to deal with. She's the only legend that actually functions differently from others by only using upkeeps as primary costs, which is actually more in line with what an Espec is supposed to do. What needed to happen from day 1 was removing weapon swap and rebalancing the weapon skills like was originally intended to be which was to be useful across more builds, but they never did it.

I played rev with no weapon swap, it wasn't good, the only way to get around it would be for weapon skills to change based on legend used which would be a lot of work every time a new elite spec came which would be unmanageable long term for the dev team. Think about it, every class that has a single weapon has a way to change it's weapon skills or gets extra somewhere else which was missing from rev at it's core concept and couldn't be added without essentially copying another class.

"Energy management legend" pull the other one, it was supposed to be about that but it's ended up being the most energy efficient legend by far without needing to really think about energy management and this was

before

draconic echo was added. Glint needs a drastic energy cost change to bring it closer in line with core for energy management or it will forever be a first pick and the rest of the class and it's problems will remain covered by Glint.

I played back with no weapon swap too and I know it was bad, but it's because half the weapons were poorly designed and were static. Utility skills were meant to be a lot stronger to compensate but they were also poorly balanced too with a few exceptions. Ventari was even more of a clunky mess, Jalis was pretty much unusable, Mallyx with self conditioning was a lot of fun but his kit made no sense, and Shiro was by far the best designed. They didn't fix the issues with the design and just slapped weapon swap, but suddenly staff is monstrously OP because you have a second set. Hammer always sucked outside of WvW CoR spam.

Like I said, Draconic Echo is another thing entirely, but Glint being as drastically different as she is was the point of her being an elite spec, even though I believe she should have been a core legend tied to Invocation. She's good because she covers more issues than energy, she provides easy access to important boons and has powerful skills on top of it. She can be good and the rest of the class balanced better as well, butchering Glint will do no good by itself.

[apharma.3741]

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@apharma.3741 said:One thing I'd like to see is energy cost removed from weapon abilities for rev. Then they can focus on the energy cost/upkeep costs for the utility skills with small cool downs to prevent back to back use.

This means you can start making Glint have costs and upkeep to properly manage without leaving a rev unable to do anything (they can still use weapon skills) for mismanaging the utility cool down. For example you might add a 25 energy cost to facet of light with a 3 energy upkeep until infuse light is used and in conjunction with the rest of the utilities having a cost and upkeep. This means you could make the stunbreak cost 30 energy and 3 upkeep so if you legend swap and hit facet of light you can't stunbreak for 1s and if you use another facet instead of the stunbreak you'll not have enough energy to stunbreak if you upkeep facet of light.

This means you won't be sitting on facets and be encouraged to use them, get some benefit then burn them and think more careful than use strength and element in glint, swap shiro and kite, swap glint and use strength and element again, heal/stunbreak as required without worry.

Dear god no, shelve this terrible idea.

Glint basically has no energy management thought needed unless you want to sit on passive boons, bringing it in line with the rest of the class is something that's been needed since day 1 of HoT. Removing energy costs from weapon abilities is needed to properly balance rev energy costs.

That's the entire point of her skills; she's the energy management legend. You decide how much energy you want to dedicate to whatever boons you want, Draconic Echo is another thing entirely to deal with. She's the only legend that actually functions differently from others by only using upkeeps as primary costs, which is actually more in line with what an Espec is supposed to do. What needed to happen from day 1 was removing weapon swap and rebalancing the weapon skills like was originally intended to be which was to be useful across more builds, but they never did it.

I played rev with no weapon swap, it wasn't good, the only way to get around it would be for weapon skills to change based on legend used which would be a lot of work every time a new elite spec came which would be unmanageable long term for the dev team. Think about it, every class that has a single weapon has a way to change it's weapon skills or gets extra somewhere else which was missing from rev at it's core concept and couldn't be added without essentially copying another class.

"Energy management legend" pull the other one, it was supposed to be about that but it's ended up being the most energy efficient legend by far without needing to really think about energy management and this was

before

draconic echo was added. Glint needs a drastic energy cost change to bring it closer in line with core for energy management or it will forever be a first pick and the rest of the class and it's problems will remain covered by Glint.

I played back with no weapon swap too and I know it was bad, but it's because half the weapons were poorly designed and were static. Utility skills were meant to be a lot stronger to compensate but they were also poorly balanced too with a few exceptions. Ventari was even more of a clunky mess, Jalis was pretty much unusable, Mallyx with self conditioning was a lot of fun but his kit made no sense, and Shiro was by far the best designed. They didn't fix the issues with the design and just slapped weapon swap, but suddenly staff is monstrously OP because you have a second set. Hammer always sucked outside of WvW CoR spam.

Like I said, Draconic Echo is another thing entirely, but Glint being as drastically different as she is was the point of her being an elite spec, even though I believe she should have been a core legend tied to Invocation. She's good because she covers more issues than energy, she provides easy access to important boons and has powerful skills on top of it. She can be good and the rest of the class balanced better as well, butchering Glint will do no good by itself.

They didn't fix it because it was a flawed design to begin with. Think about it, if you offload everything onto the utility slots because you have only 5 weapon skills you have to put defences baked into every weapon set and you have to massively bloat all the utility skills to make up for the plethora of skills every other class has as well as the ability to mix and match. This then leads to people complaining that they get hit with these bloated abilities because there's nowhere else to spread the features to due to the legend design, it's bad enough with weapon swap allowing the devs to spread out defensive and offensive skills but it would be a whole lot worse if there was no weapon swap.

As for Glint, who said I was butchering Glint? I wasn't touching the ability damage, function or anything but the energy management side and it was very specifically targeted at preventing people hitting facet of light and sitting on it with no regard to energy management. I want there to be a second (or even a first) thought about which facets you have up and if you might need it soon instead of activate the facets and not have any real drawback for getting those boons or for using them off CD like with elements and strength. If you feel the numbers are off that's fine but there does need to be a higher cost to glint utilities, front loading the cost means you can't fall into a trap of being unable to consume facets and get energy back if you used too many facets which a cost on consume effect would do.