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My Rambling Thoughts About Strike Missions.


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I've been playing SM's (Strike Mission) for a few weeks now as a FB, running my own Minstrel's healing build you'd normally see in WvW squads and more recently a Diviner's boon support. Both builds I really enjoy and help the SM groups I join. I know how to play my profession very well and love it.No matter how aware I am of how other professions are built and how I support them in a group setting, I understand my specific Role; it's difficult to be ridiculed for my builds I know are optimal for what they're meant to achieve support wise. I haven't a problem with a person's personal preference for their LFG. I take issue with me being mocked for builds that aren't Meta to a sub section of other players and I'm just expected to be dead weight- not worth understanding, not worth teaching, not worth a second thought. I hope ya'll can imagine that kind of attitude and how unhealthy it is.What is this thread? Someone with bad experiences?I don't really know. I'm just disappointed in ArenaNet when it comes down to my reasoning, it's just feedback for them.

If ya'll have rambling thoughts about your experience with SM's then feel free. :smile:

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There are a lot of players with a very closed mindset. The type of players that only run meta builds, and often do not know how to stay alive with them, or how the builds are supposed to work. I've tried to convince some of them to make their own builds and learn how to create a proper build of their own, but it is wasted effort.

There are a lot of custom builds out there that are not meta, but could very well out perform current meta builds. I can't even count the number of times I've seen players drop like flies, while I was the last person standing. So many people that just run berserker builds, and then die almost instantly.

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@"Tearthy Flame.1463" said:I'm just disappointed in ArenaNet when it comes down to my reasoning, it's just feedback for them.

And what do you expect them to do in response to your feedback? They cannot simply release a "balance patch" for adjusting player behavior/ mindset.

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Nothing wrong with playing off meta. Just dont join groups looking for meta builds. If you see a group asking for raid LI, or specific roles like 'qfb, hfb' stay away as they are specifically asking for meta builds and wont be happy if you join. Most other groups should have no problem with what you are running and I'd advice report and block if they flame you.

As far as your builds go, minstrels is fine in strikes/fracs as there is no aggro mechanic. If you ever plan to raid however, you need to be at 1k toughness only, otherwise you may steal aggro from the tank and mess up the raid.

Diviners is kinda a wasted stat on firebrand unless you are the only source of might/fury as you can quite easily upkeep 100% quickness, and stab where necessary, with base stats.

Im not sure what anet can do about it, other than ban players who harass others but that takes time and alot of evidence.

@Mad Queen Malafide.7512 said:There are a lot of players with a very closed mindset. The type of players that only run meta builds, and often do not know how to stay alive with them, or how the builds are supposed to work. I've tried to convince some of them to make their own builds and learn how to create a proper build of their own, but it is wasted effort.

There are a lot of custom builds out there that are not meta, but could very well out perform current meta builds. I can't even count the number of times I've seen players drop like flies, while I was the last person standing. So many people that just run berserker builds, and then die almost instantly.

In general, while its ok to add a few defensive stats to your build while you are learning, its best to stick mostly to full glass cannon. Other wise you get into bad habits of ignoring mechanics and relying on your toughness to carry you. This will make it 10x harder if you want to progress into more challenging content.

Off meta builds rarely perform better than meta, even on average players (condi weaver ect being the exception) as long as the player understands where their dps is coming from and doesnt mindlessly follow rotation. I agree there are too many people who dont bother to actually learn the build and just copy it. I also agree that many people overestimate themselves and join groups they arent ready for. However being the last man standing doesnt always mean you are playing well. For example, usually rangers playing longbow at max range will die last, but they definitely arent contributing much.

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@Mad Queen Malafide.7512 said:There are a lot of players with a very closed mindset. The type of players that only run meta builds, and often do not know how to stay alive with them, or how the builds are supposed to work. I've tried to convince some of them to make their own builds and learn how to create a proper build of their own, but it is wasted effort.

There are a lot of custom builds out there that are not meta, but could very well out perform current meta builds. I can't even count the number of times I've seen players drop like flies, while I was the last person standing. So many people that just run berserker builds, and then die almost instantly.

This x1000.

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@zombyturtle.5980 said:Nothing wrong with playing off meta. Just dont join groups looking for meta builds. If you see a group asking for raid LI, or specific roles like 'qfb, hfb' stay away as they are specifically asking for meta builds and wont be happy if you join. Most other groups should have no problem with what you are running and I'd advice report and block if they flame you.

As far as your builds go, minstrels is fine in strikes/fracs as there is no aggro mechanic. If you ever plan to raid however, you need to be at 1k toughness only, otherwise you may steal aggro from the tank and mess up the raid.

Diviners is kinda a wasted stat on firebrand unless you are the only source of might/fury as you can quite easily upkeep 100% quickness, and stab where necessary, with base stats.

Im not sure what anet can do about it, other than ban players who harass others but that takes time and alot of evidence.

@Mad Queen Malafide.7512 said:There are a lot of players with a very closed mindset. The type of players that only run meta builds, and often do not know how to stay alive with them, or how the builds are supposed to work. I've tried to convince some of them to make their own builds and learn how to create a proper build of their own, but it is wasted effort.

There are a lot of custom builds out there that are not meta, but could very well out perform current meta builds. I can't even count the number of times I've seen players drop like flies, while I was the last person standing. So many people that just run berserker builds, and then die almost instantly.

In general, while its ok to add a few defensive stats to your build while you are learning, its best to stick mostly to full glass cannon. Other wise you get into bad habits of ignoring mechanics and relying on your toughness to carry you. This will make it 10x harder if you want to progress into more challenging content.

Off meta builds rarely perform better than meta, even on average players (condi weaver ect being the exception) as long as the player understands where their dps is coming from and doesnt mindlessly follow rotation. I agree there are too many people who dont bother to actually learn the build and just copy it. I also agree that many people overestimate themselves and join groups they arent ready for. However being the last man standing doesnt always mean you are playing well. For example, usually rangers playing longbow at max range will die last, but they definitely arent contributing much.

When you're pugging, the game changes a bit. I ran a heal druid build on jormag and it was a poop show. Auramancer did way better, 100% up time on protection gives people a little more time to react to mechanics and can be the difference between a wipe or success. I have 95% bd on my tempest and can provide 25 might when pressure is lower. Also tempest has better heal range which helps with the last phase.

Some of the raid strategies the community had built around super high dps are actually quite fragile and not very learning new stuff friendly, which is what strikes are supposed to be.

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The main thing I don't like about SMs is that they (as its own content) don't really seem to have a target audience which, granted, wasn't A-Nets intention to begin with. There is nothing inherent to the content structure of both dungeons and raids that turns of the average player so the problem they're trying to adress with SMs is esentialy non existent. Once most players got the skins they wanted it's esentially going to be just another round of dead content.

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Talking about meta builds in the context of pug strikes is kinda silly. Raid meta assumes optimal conditions and skill level in order to achieve the best result. Best is measured by speed and rate of success.

In pug strikes you're rarely ever in optimal conditions with top skill level players. You need to assume that half the squad likely has no idea what the dodge button is. If we make this assumption to talk about what's best in slot, minstrel firebrand is more than adequate, as it provides you extra tankiness to cover the mistakes of both yourself and the squad while still fulfilling the healer role.

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@"Tearthy Flame.1463" said:I've been playing SM's (Strike Mission) for a few weeks now as a FB, running my own Minstrel's healing .....I read your post three times.I read your post three times and decided we are playing differrent games.I run a lot of strikes. Here is how they go every time...I start up a squad on my little home brewed boon support/barrierbot hard carry scourge. I put up an LFG that says "Shiverpeaks>Fraenir>Bears -ALL WELCOME-" and then add something like "Non-meta builds preffered. scuffed rotations mandatory. Benchmark your Carrion Deadeye here, LF Shoutheal Warrior" or something equally ask wacky.The squads fill instantly, no one says anything about anyone else's performance. Failures are very rare. Gold is only missed occasionally on Fraenir. Toxicity is almost zero, and if I don't like it? I can kick. My squad, my rules. If I decide after the first three strikes that the team might be up to Boneskinner or WoJ I ask people if they want to hang around and try one.I run ARC now, I know exactly what everyone is bringing to to squad, and if I make the call that it's worth the effort? Expectations have been appropriately set.I consequently enjoy Strike Missions very much.But here's the thing....I tell everyone to bring whatever they want.... I deal with any toxicity/performance shaming instantly with a kick... and I set the correct tone and expectations in my LFG.I think I've seen three wipes in the last 100 strikes I've done, and most everyone was cool about it.The first three Strikes are not hard. Damage can be mitigated in a number of ways, there are few truly unforgiving mechanics and there's no one Composition that needs to be run. 4 competent players can carry all the encounters for the entire team.

Start your own squad. Word your LFG carefully looking for the kind of people you want to play with. Just as those who are setting performance/build expectations did in theirs. That's kinda the point.As a hard carry WvW Support Guard? I am sure you can lead ten under a "Play what you want" scenario like the one I use. Front Line WvW is FAR more difficult than carrying nine people of varying skill through Fraenir.

I promise you will enjoy Strikes more if you do this.

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I do strikes daily and have never seen people mocked for offmeta, but some people play really subpar stuff which gets even worse because they don't stack for boons at all (those max range greatsword mesmers, edge of the arena longbow rangers with movement signet, hammer revenant, pistol thieves) which gets them kicked mainly in Whisper of Jormag.

Granted squads want quickness, alacrity, banner , and 1 healer if firebrands are power/condi to keep scholar uptime but the rest is really not that big a deal. You can run condi banner or power banner ; you can get quickness from a chrono running seize the moment or a firebrand (heal/condi/power) , you can get heals from healbrand/tempest/scourge/druid/scrapper/rev. The fact is the 50% damage you get from quickness being 50% faster attack rate is the only thing that is truly overwhelmingly impactful.

If you are mocked for running minstrel firebrand the person probably has issues. There is minimal DPS coming from a healing firebrand even on harrier , so unless you run Marshal's (Power+Healing Power, with condition damage+precision) , Seraph's (Precision +Condition Damage, with additional Concentration and Healing Power) or Apothecary (Healing Power, Toughness+Condition Damage) , Plaguedoctor (Condition Damage+Vitality, with healing power+concentration) for added DPS it really isn't a large concern. In fact, minstrel firebrand is better for boneskinner.

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@Infusion.7149 said:I do strikes daily and have never seen people mocked for offmeta, but some people play really subpar stuff which gets even worse because they don't stack for boons at all (those max range greatsword mesmers, edge of the arena longbow rangers with movement signet, hammer revenant, pistol thieves) which gets them kicked mainly in Whisper of Jormag.

This.

If you are off stack, do 4k dps as damage dealer and die every 20 seconds, people have no issue with you being off meta. They have an issue with you being terrible.

Players need to stop pretending that being off meta is the same as being bad at the game/content. There are enough players who run useful off meta builds and are doing just fine. There is also a lot of players which are simply bad, no matter if on a meta build or not.

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@Cyninja.2954 said:

@"Infusion.7149" said:I do strikes daily and have never seen people mocked for offmeta, but some people play really subpar stuff which gets even worse because they don't stack for boons at all (those max range greatsword mesmers, edge of the arena longbow rangers with movement signet, hammer revenant, pistol thieves) which gets them kicked mainly in Whisper of Jormag.

This.

If you are off stack, do 4k dps as damage dealer and die every 20 seconds, people have no issue with you being off meta. They have an issue with you being terrible.

Players need to stop pretending that being off meta is the same as being bad at the game/content. There are enough players who run useful off meta builds and are doing just fine. There is also a lot of players which are simply bad, no matter if on a meta build or not.There is no gear check in Strike Missions, most off-meta builds were only noticed by their low DPS, low healing, or low boon upkeep.Most commonly in Boneskinner or Whisper of Jormag when their supposed healer doesn't heal, or their "Heal Scourge" never revive, causing a group wipe.

Many casual players thought by claiming to be playing "support class" could offset burdens of having to perform a DPS number, unknowing that there is more responsibility involved.

As for OP's case, he might has to double check his skill sets for PvE.

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@"Vilin.8056" said:Many casual players thought by claiming to be playing "support class" could offset burdens of having to perform a DPS number, unknowing that there is more responsibility involved.There are far more "experienced" players pretending they are DPS and clocking less than 5k/sec on Shiverpeaks Pass than there are "casuals" hiding behind a support role.Players of all levels of engagement underperform.The "casual" label here isn't relevant and perpetrates a stale meme.As for OP's case, he might has to double check his skill sets for PvE.Assuming the OP's story is true about being "build shamed". The OP certainly contained a healthy dose of hyperbole.@"Infusion.7149" said:I do strikes daily and have never seen people mocked for offmeta, but some people play really subpar stuff which gets even worse because they don't stack for boons at all (those max range greatsword mesmers, edge of the arena longbow rangers with movement signet, hammer revenant, pistol thieves) which gets them kicked mainly in Whisper of Jormag.I would take a hammer rev or a pistol thief any day over some of the things I see running squads.People who play Druid and generate zero might.Healbrands who generate no boons.Alacrity Renegades who are obviously not running Righteous Rebel.And I see way more of these than I see idiot longbow Rangers. And that ranger usually responds pretty quick to "Hey ranger, come huddle with us, grab some boons and heals".But that player pretending to be an Alac Renegade and cannot keep the boon up because they are not traited/geared correctly are far more numerous and deficient on an absolutely fundamental level that cannot be addressed with a quick call out mid-fight.You can't tell them that they are doing anything wrong because "Alac Rev is meta".

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@mindcircus.1506 said:

@"Vilin.8056" said:Many casual players thought by claiming to be playing "support class" could offset burdens of having to perform a DPS number, unknowing that there is more responsibility involved.There are far more "experienced" players pretending they are DPS and clocking less than 5k/sec on Shiverpeaks Pass than there are "casuals" hiding behind a support role.Players of all levels of engagement underperform.The "casual" label here isn't relevant and perpetrates a stale meme.As for OP's case, he might has to double check his skill sets for PvE.Assuming the OP's story is true about being "build shamed". The OP certainly contained a healthy dose of hyperbole.@"Infusion.7149" said:I do strikes daily and have never seen people mocked for offmeta, but some people play really subpar stuff which gets even worse because they don't stack for boons at all (those max range greatsword mesmers, edge of the arena longbow rangers with movement signet, hammer revenant, pistol thieves) which gets them kicked mainly in Whisper of Jormag.I would take a hammer rev or a pistol thief any day over some of the things I see running squads.People who play Druid and generate zero might.Healbrands who generate no boons.Alacrity Renegades who are obviously not running Righteous Rebel.And I see way more of these than I see idiot longbow Rangers. And that ranger usually responds pretty quick to "Hey ranger, come huddle with us, grab some boons and heals".But that player pretending to be an Alac Renegade and cannot keep the boon up because they are not traited/geared correctly are far more numerous and deficient on an absolutely fundamental level that cannot be addressed with a quick call out mid-fight.You can't tell them that they are doing anything wrong because "Alac Rev is meta".

If you can call out "get in stack for boons and heals" why can you not call out "hey rev alac???" seems to me second line is quicker.

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@mindcircus.1506 said:

@"Linken.6345" said:If you can call out "get in stack for boons and heals" why can you not call out "hey rev alac???" seems to me second line is quicker.It would also be quicker and less abrasive to use only one question mark, would it not?

I guess it depends on how you see it.All bad things come in 3, aint that the saying?So since n alac is bad I go with 3 ?

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Some of my best experiences in strike missions and fractals, have been with off-meta groups that were doing the content for the first time, with a build they felt comfortable with. And yet, I have just as often been in groups pretending to be experienced, running meta builds, and being on the floor through out most of the fight.

As I tried to tell these players: Your dps is 0 if you're on the floor, plus you also lower the dps of your party members, who constantly have to revive you.No one cares about your meta berserker build with its super high dps, if you can't keep yourself on your feet. No fingerpointing, or yelling for an extra healer to carry you, will make up for just being bad. Strike Mission do not require optimized builds or even super high dps. But you should at least be able to stay alive.

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@"Mad Queen Malafide.7512" said:Some of my best experiences in strike missions and fractals, have been with off-meta groups that were doing the content for the first time, with a build they felt comfortable with. And yet, I have just as often been in groups pretending to be experienced, running meta builds, and being on the floor through out most of the fight.

As I tried to tell these players: Your dps is 0 if you're on the floor, plus you also lower the dps of your party members, who constantly have to revive you.No one cares about your meta berserker build with its super high dps, if you can't keep yourself on your feet. No fingerpointing, or yelling for an extra healer to carry you, will make up for just being bad. Strike Mission do not require optimized builds or even super high dps. But you should at least be able to stay alive.

Did those experiences include T4's and Boneskinner, just out of curiosity?Shiverpeaks, Kodans and Fraenir are doable on pretty much any comp as long as there's a semi-healer. Whisper is also chill as long as there's 2-3 healers and people don't play bomberman/chainsweeper too much. Boneskinner, however, requires extremely strong heals for the overheal strat (the incoming damage is pretty much like no-shroom Slothasor which Kitty's also done).Pug meta for Whisper and Boneskinner is actually bit different from raid pug meta though quickness, alacrity, might and fury are still wanted but druid+chrono is horrible at them compared to auramancer, healbrand and alacrigade. Healbrand is everyone's choice of healer for T4 fractals for its carry power, though.BUT.At Boneskinner dps does matter. Most of pug squads have only 5ish pure dpsers and Boneskinner still has a dps check which isn't super-high (though good luck surviving 10 minutes with that damage pressure if you only do the bare minimum dps required) but still higher than what an usual soldier's geared player with random open-world traits could pull off (though Kitty can do enough dps with soldier's gears but that's not the point). And also, defensive stats aren't very helpful at either Boneskinner or Whisper. At Bones for that aforementioned damage pressure you anyway need healers for and at Whisper due to mechs mostly insta-downing peoples if failed regardless of vitality/toughness.

Mostly the survival issues is either dpser failing mechs a lot, others players failing the mechs on you (chains and bombs) or healers not healing enough (many druids enter CA once a minute instead of off-cooldown, which is 9 seconds, as example). If you fail the mechs in squad content, you go down be squishy or be tanky. If you go down, you do no deeps be squishy or be tanky. But do power deeps, do be squishy. Do condi deeps, do be tankyblazer's. Or Carrion's budget build. (Search youtube for "gw2 carrion budget Kitty")Worst combination, though, is player with metabuild but no understanding. As a wise man once said: " If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle. "

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@Mad Queen Malafide.7512 said:Some of my best experiences in strike missions and fractals, have been with off-meta groups that were doing the content for the first time, with a build they felt comfortable with. And yet, I have just as often been in groups pretending to be experienced, running meta builds, and being on the floor through out most of the fight.

As I tried to tell these players: Your dps is 0 if you're on the floor, plus you also lower the dps of your party members, who constantly have to revive you.No one cares about your meta berserker build with its super high dps, if you can't keep yourself on your feet. No fingerpointing, or yelling for an extra healer to carry you, will make up for just being bad. Strike Mission do not require optimized builds or even super high dps. But you should at least be able to stay alive.

:P why choose survivability over damage, when you can just do the mechs correctly in berserker gear and do more damage > faster kills > everyone are more likely to survive.

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@Cerioth.7062 said:

@Mad Queen Malafide.7512 said:Some of my best experiences in strike missions and fractals, have been with off-meta groups that were doing the content for the first time, with a build they felt comfortable with. And yet, I have just as often been in groups pretending to be experienced, running meta builds, and being on the floor through out most of the fight.

As I tried to tell these players: Your dps is 0 if you're on the floor, plus you also lower the dps of your party members, who constantly have to revive you.No one cares about your meta berserker build with its super high dps, if you can't keep yourself on your feet. No fingerpointing, or yelling for an extra healer to carry you, will make up for just being bad. Strike Mission do not require optimized builds or even super high dps. But you should at least be able to stay alive.

:P why choose survivability over damage, when you can just do the mechs correctly in berserker gear and do more damage > faster kills > everyone are more likely to survive.Because pugs.

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I was surprised to see many thoughtful comments on this thread, I'm thankful for the positive words and helpful information, I hope it helps other people. Reading though this thread gave me some clarity on what I wanted from speaking my mind, I needed to open up a dialogue that's based on understanding and acceptance.I like that everyone here has very different ideas to talk about and have opinions- rambling on about the community culture in SM's, the ignorant mentalities and also how much good will is in the community.

But I'm posting again to give more context to ya'll's general query: How I went about doing pug SM's.My main goal from the start was getting the Runic Cape and yes I did get it. Now in the real world I had to get past my anxiety at first 'cause life has been difficult recently, yet I push my limits so I can grow and learn and not feel stuck. But please know that's not all the painfully long details about myself. Anyway, I did have a very high rate of good groups with nice people and that's far more positive than the two times I was shamed for my build.The first bad experience was from another pug (playing Firebrand) within a group I was clearing bosses with, while using my Minstrel's FB, and right when I joined this group I clearly stated "Minstrel's FB/Boon/Healer" because I do understand I'm most likely not running a commonly known support build- they didn't really think anything of it I guess. Yet the ridicule occurred later (3 or so boss kills), I was asked by the Firebrand Pug to ping my build, I did so, being called dead weight by the person and how wrong my build is. I was not kicked from that group but that's the reaction I got for my build existing.The second experience is more straight forward, I only said "Minstrel's Heal or Diviner's Support Build". The commander just typed W.T.F. and kicked me. Kicking me is fine but being reacted to like that didn't help my depression after the last one... Again, along the lines of feeling worthless.

I started this discussion with feeling down and helpless; not knowing how to properly open up talking about the subject of toxic behavior in SM content and why it bothers me to see this happening. I think SM's don't have the same structure as raiding yet ArenaNet has made Strike content really confusing to play.

So now I'll leave ya'll with a little more added context, what my FB build is:Full Minstrel's of Ascended Attribute Rarity / Superior Rune of the Monk / Staff / Superior Sigil of Concentration & Transference / Firebrand Build Template:[&DQExOQ0ePjpLF0sXUxdTF3oWehYtAS0BiRKJEgAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA=]

Thank you for reading this long winded post, love ya'll, bye. <3

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@"Tearthy Flame.1463" said:SnipThe second experience is more straight forward, I only said "Minstrel's Heal or Diviner's Support Build". The commander just typed W.T.F. and kicked me. Kicking me is fine but being reacted to like that didn't help my depression after the last one... Again, along the lines of feeling worthless.

Snip

All well and good with the rest of the post but this second commander what were they looking for?If it was a quickbrand they arent looking for a third or 4th healer so their reaction is understandable, they need both the quickness and damage from said quickbrand.About the highlighted letters you may have been the 2-5 or even 10th person that commander had to deal with joining with wrong requirement.Even have gotten flack when kicking guild mates in my squad from random pugs thinking Im harsh.And thats after my mates telling me to kick over discord becouse they forgot to leave =P

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Lol I don't see what's wrong with your build if you're just doing a strike mission. It has quickness and heals.You could probably run virtues over valor for battle presence but as long as you're running mace+shield you pretty much fulfill most of your duty (quickness/heals/aegis) as the meta version has axe+shield so you have similar heal output without battle presence but lack fury output without axe or sword as a swap. You could have ran Bow of Truth or Stand your Ground instead of the Retreat skill (recommend wall of reflection for kodan), but that would be nitpicking (it still has aegis). Mantra of Lore is useful when there's condis and should be dropped when there isn't , so it's by encounter.

edit: add note on fury

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