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Nerf condi thief


Bazooka.3590

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In the spirit of full disclosure, I will preface this post by saying for those of you who don't know me or my main account (anonymouse.4760), every season I have played I get to legend with thief. I will write this objectively and with as little bias as possible. It's important to know moving forward in this post that thief has 4 viable ranked specs SCROLL DOWN FOR TLDR

  1. Condi Thief
  2. Deadeye
  3. Staff thief
  4. Core Power

I just want to point out a few things. . .

  1. Anet already addressed condi thief is getting nerfed, you can see it in the most recent suggested patch notes - deadly ambition ( the recently reworked trait ) is getting hit so that it has less burst and forces thieves to apply more sustained pressure. I anticipate post-season-update the aforementioned specs will become more popular among thief players. I am aware condi is disliked and frowned upon by a lot of players, ( a big reason as to why this thread has gotten so much attention ) so i'm sure a lot of you will be happy to read this.

  2. There's a lot of talk about condi thief being easy to use or broken yet of the players that make up the top 10 on the leaderboard not one of them is a condi thief, while the majority is holosmith / dps firebrand. In fact, the two thieves currently on it are a deadeye and a staff thief. In the top 25 - none of the account names I recognize belong to condi thief players. I can't speak for condi thief's effectiveness or rarity in gold or low plat which i'm assuming many of the players posting here reside in, as I am typically around 1770-1820 - but I'm sure it is more prevalent there. My point is that it's "ease of use" drops off heavily against more experienced players. Sound familiar? This is how thief has been since launch. every viable thief spec always garners complaints, because of the mechanics of the class being difficult to understand / counter.

  3. Be patient, the patch usually hits mid season, which is only a week or two away from now. In no time at all you'll be back to the forums reading complaints about how a perma stealth deadeye just one shot someone for a 13k deaths judgement, or a staff thief just survived a 1v2 and evaded ten times in a row. No matter how you look at it, thief mechanics will always be hard to deal with - sorry but that's just the nature of the class.

Pick your poison

  • Kat

*TLDR

  • condi thief confirmed getting nerfed soon, u wont c it as much because of how competitive the other options are
  • easier in silver / gold vs plat / legend
  • condi always gets more complaints than power, hence why there is more attention here than on deadeye which are both equally good in ranked IMO
  • thief in general gets alot of complaints because its burst is low counterplay and hard to understand not bc its more op than other meta classes
  • just as many guardians holos revs ect as there are thieves proves it isn't out of line with other meta classes*
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@"birdboy.6509" said:In the spirit of full disclosure, I will preface this post by saying for those of you who don't know me or my main account (anonymouse.4760), every season I have played I get to legend with thief. I will write this objectively and with as little bias as possible. It's important to know moving forward in this post that thief has 4 viable ranked specs SCROLL DOWN FOR TLDR

  1. Condi Thief
  2. Deadeye
  3. Staff thief
  4. Core Power

I just want to point out a few things. . .

  1. Anet already addressed condi thief is getting nerfed, you can see it in the most recent suggested patch notes - deadly ambition ( the recently reworked trait ) is getting hit so that it has less burst and forces thieves to apply more sustained pressure. I anticipate post-season-update the aforementioned specs will become more popular among thief players. I am aware condi is disliked and frowned upon by a lot of players, ( a big reason as to why this thread has gotten so much attention ) so i'm sure a lot of you will be happy to read this.

  2. There's a lot of talk about condi thief being easy to use or broken yet of the players that make up the top 10 on the leaderboard not one of them is a condi thief, while the majority is holosmith / dps firebrand. In fact, the two thieves currently on it are a deadeye and a staff thief. In the top 25 - none of the account names I recognize belong to condi thief players. I can't speak for condi thief's effectiveness or rarity in gold or low plat which i'm assuming many of the players posting here reside in, as I am typically around 1770-1820 - but I'm sure it is more prevalent there. My point is that it's "ease of use" drops off heavily against more experienced players. Sound familiar? This is how thief has been since launch. every viable thief spec always garners complaints, because of the mechanics of the class being difficult to understand / counter.

  3. Be patient, the patch usually hits mid season, which is only a week or two away from now. In no time at all you'll be back to the forums reading complaints about how a perma stealth deadeye just one shot someone for a 13k deaths judgement, or a staff thief just survived a 1v2 and evaded ten times in a row. No matter how you look at it, thief mechanics will always be hard to deal with - sorry but that's just the nature of the class.

Pick your poison

  • Kat

*TLDR

  • condi thief confirmed getting nerfed soon, u wont c it as much because of how competitive the other options are
  • easier in silver / gold vs plat / legend
  • condi always gets more complaints than power, hence why there is more attention here than on deadeye which are both equally good in ranked IMO
  • thief in general gets alot of complaints because its burst is low counterplay and hard to understand not bc its more op than other meta classes
  • just as many guardians holos revs ect as there are thieves proves it isn't out of line with other meta classes*

The main issue is the deadly ambition trait + panic strike the former which is getting a change although it's definitely fake news that's a nerf since it's going from (3stacks of poison traited) 5sec icd ->(2stacks of poison traited) 2sec Icd. Basic math = every 10 sec thief applies 6 stacks of poison(traited) and after change(nerf hahaxd) applies 10stacks of poison . All they need to do is add an icd for the immob on poison in panic strike and condi thief won't be able to spam sword 2 and have ridiculous poison up time. Wrote this with "as little bias as possible" btw.

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@"Moonlight.1985" said:

The main issue is the deadly ambition trait + panic strike the former which is getting a change although it's definitely fake news that's a nerf since it's going from (3stacks of poison traited) 5sec icd ->(2stacks of poison traited) 2sec Icd. Basic math = every 10 sec thief applies 6 stacks of poison(traited) and after change(nerf hahaxd) applies 10stacks of poison . All they need to do is add an icd for the immob on poison in panic strike and condi thief won't be able to spam sword 2 and have ridiculous poison up time. Wrote this with "as little bias as possible" btw.

Nice try but you're not mentioning the duration decrease. I'll write this assuming it's traited as well3 stacks that last 3 seconds with an ICD of 5 seconds -- > 2 stacks that last 2 seconds with an ICD of 2 secondsBasically in order to achieve the same level of damage output in 10 seconds you would have to hit the target 5 times exactly on the 2 second intervals whereas previously you would only need hit the target once every 5 seconds. (That's not gonna happen often if at all)it's pretty obvious which version of the trait you'll average higher damage, and have higher burst all in one."basic math" btw

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@birdboy.6509 said:

@"Moonlight.1985" said:

The main issue is the deadly ambition trait + panic strike the former which is getting a change although it's definitely fake news that's a nerf since it's going from (3stacks of poison traited) 5sec icd ->(2stacks of poison traited) 2sec Icd. Basic math = every 10 sec thief applies 6 stacks of poison(traited) and after change(nerf hahaxd) applies 10stacks of poison . All they need to do is add an icd for the immob on poison in panic strike and condi thief won't be able to spam sword 2 and have ridiculous poison up time. Wrote this with "as little bias as possible" btw.

Nice try but you're not mentioning the duration decrease. I'll write this assuming it's traited as well3 stacks that last 3 seconds with an ICD of 5 seconds -- > 2 stacks that last 2 seconds with an ICD of 2 secondsBasically in order to achieve the same level of damage output in 10 seconds you would have to hit the target 5 times exactly on the 2 second intervals whereas previously you would only need hit the target once every 5 seconds. (That's not gonna happen often if at all)it's pretty obvious which version of the trait you'll average higher damage, and have higher burst all in one."basic math" btw

3x3=9x2 activations per 10s =18s poison per 10s

2x2=4x5 activations per 10s = 20s poison per 10s

It is basic math, this is a buff

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  • 1 month later...

warrior runs around with 25 might all the time guardian has like 21685473 buffs on him all the time and dont get me started on mesmers and necromancers who just dont die yet I dont see people complaining about that. its always the thief. condi is almost like the only viable pvp build right now and they want that nerfed as well. well tell us what should they buff instead? you just want to one shot almost every thief without them hitting back to you dont you? its ok you can admit. people will be happy when the class deleted from the game.

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Lol those players in the clip were so bad.

Edit: And if you bothered to actually read what I wrote you’d see I wasn’t defending the build so much as pointing out that what people identify as being “OP” about it usually isn’t actually what is dangerous about it.

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  • 1 month later...

Hello there,I recently went back to gw2 trying out double shortbow.Since I am doing mediocre with it [Kattacked]'s build.I was wondering how I am affected by this nerf/change.I did notice I have trouble getting the needed 5stacks for the Interrupt on S.Bow4.I do use Spider venom to make up for it.Looks like double S.Bow got hit unintentionally or am I wrong ?

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I feel the changes were good. The new deadly ambition is less abusable but functions better. W/o a cd there’s some situations it can deal more poison and now that they put the poison on sword 3 there is actually a reason to use this great skill, say swipe+sword 3 as a burst which now actually does something. It also helps cleaving since before u had to stick to dodging and steal for cleave which is just terribad. As far as spider venom I’m glad it was nerfed because players who couldn’t play effectively would just use this with say 3 team mates and it could one shot targets, not to mention the always annoying thief’s guild + spider venom for 20/30 stacks of poison when it hits.

@"birdboy.6509" said:In the spirit of full disclosure, I will preface this post by saying for those of you who don't know me or my main account (anonymouse.4760), every season I have played I get to legend with thief. I will write this objectively and with as little bias as possible. It's important to know moving forward in this post that thief has 4 viable ranked specs SCROLL DOWN FOR TLDR

  1. Condi Thief
  2. Deadeye
  3. Staff thief
  4. Core Power

I just want to point out a few things. . .

  1. Anet already addressed condi thief is getting nerfed, you can see it in the most recent suggested patch notes - deadly ambition ( the recently reworked trait ) is getting hit so that it has less burst and forces thieves to apply more sustained pressure. I anticipate post-season-update the aforementioned specs will become more popular among thief players. I am aware condi is disliked and frowned upon by a lot of players, ( a big reason as to why this thread has gotten so much attention ) so i'm sure a lot of you will be happy to read this.

  2. There's a lot of talk about condi thief being easy to use or broken yet of the players that make up the top 10 on the leaderboard not one of them is a condi thief, while the majority is holosmith / dps firebrand. In fact, the two thieves currently on it are a deadeye and a staff thief. In the top 25 - none of the account names I recognize belong to condi thief players. I can't speak for condi thief's effectiveness or rarity in gold or low plat which i'm assuming many of the players posting here reside in, as I am typically around 1770-1820 - but I'm sure it is more prevalent there. My point is that it's "ease of use" drops off heavily against more experienced players. Sound familiar? This is how thief has been since launch. every viable thief spec always garners complaints, because of the mechanics of the class being difficult to understand / counter.

  3. Be patient, the patch usually hits mid season, which is only a week or two away from now. In no time at all you'll be back to the forums reading complaints about how a perma stealth deadeye just one shot someone for a 13k deaths judgement, or a staff thief just survived a 1v2 and evaded ten times in a row. No matter how you look at it, thief mechanics will always be hard to deal with - sorry but that's just the nature of the class.

Pick your poison

  • Kat

*TLDR

  • condi thief confirmed getting nerfed soon, u wont c it as much because of how competitive the other options are
  • easier in silver / gold vs plat / legend
  • condi always gets more complaints than power, hence why there is more attention here than on deadeye which are both equally good in ranked IMO
  • thief in general gets alot of complaints because its burst is low counterplay and hard to understand not bc its more op than other meta classes
  • just as many guardians holos revs ect as there are thieves proves it isn't out of line with other meta classes*

As far as ppl saying it’s not good in top tier. I’m actually surprised that that was ever mentioned. I my self solo qued like 99% of last season and was at 1760( top ten) though I did decay at end of season to top 25 cuz didn’t wanna play the pissing game that is climbing on the last day. But in my experience condition thief is very good in top tier ranked as it counters many annoying ranked builds like holo, reaper, rev, ranger and most other thief builds- deadeye, the old bunker staff, dp, s/d, other condition thief’s and even the new s/p. I think we are still gonna see condition thief because with the new deadly ambition it’s just as good as a duelist and is a little better against a few bunker classes, not to mention nerfs to rampage, Holosmith and Mesmer make it ezier than ever to just reck these classes 1v1, which is a pretty helpful thing in ranked.So yeah condition thief is still good especially in ranked but I’ll admit to playing a power build now and again when against a full bunker FB/ele team fight comp. but that was always a weakness of this build before and after changes

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A case of the nver ending Thief Toxicity

(posted 2016)

'happy to see the bad builds back!'

personal oppinion- I strongly believe that there is someone at Anet who is intentionally reversing all Thief nerfs as if nobody would notice them.

It is as if this person really does not want Thief to be nerfed. A hard case of Favoritism at the top

Again, it's an oppinion

'A Condition-Bursting Thief, with style. Well, not so much style... Also, it appears as if the potato HATES it. Just, everything about it. He really brings the pain this time...'

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@"Burnfall.9573" said:A case of never ending of Thief Toxicity

(posted 2016)

'happy to see the bad builds back!'

'A Condition-Bursting Thief, with style. Well, not so much style... Also, it appears as if the potato HATES it. Just, everything about it. He really brings the pain this time...'

Very educational thanks. For theory crafting I’d say if panic strike was like in that video(no poison proc on immob) we might see some weird builds. Maybe even some dagger:dagger action which I tested out is not too bad at 1v1 rn w/ like either acro or trickery, but it’s not very good at surviving plusses, in addition a very smart s/d condi thief would just zone u w/ sword 2 spam. But hey like I said if they remove panic strike poison we might see a little of it, but it might not be meta unless they seriously rework some of d/d tool kit

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@"Burnfall.9573" said:A case of the nver ending Thief Toxicity

(posted 2016)

'happy to see the bad builds back!'

personal oppinion- I strongly believe that there is someone at Anet who is intentionally reversing all Thief nerfs as if nobody would notice them.

It is as if this person really does not want Thief to be nerfed. A hard case of Favoritism at the top

Again, it's an oppinion

'A Condition-Bursting Thief, with style. Well, not so much style... Also, it appears as if the potato HATES it. Just, everything about it. He really brings the pain this time...'

Lmao thief is not only one of the if not most nerfed classes it also seems like nerfs is all it gets most times.Man ur hate for thief has really blinded u.

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  • 5 months later...

@Dadnir.5038 said:What is the issue? The condition damage? The amount of CC? Stealth? A combination of those?Which skills are problematics? Which traits are problematics?Is it related to initiative? Is it related to endurance?

Give some explanations please.

I know this thread is fairly old and perhaps a bit outdated, but you're requiring information that someone wouldn't necessarily have unless they play thief themselves.

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@Vashuddha.1538 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:What is the issue? The condition damage? The amount of CC? Stealth? A combination of those?Which skills are problematics? Which traits are problematics?Is it related to initiative? Is it related to endurance?

Give some explanations please.

I know this thread is fairly old and perhaps a bit outdated, but you're requiring information that someone wouldn't necessarily have unless they play thief themselves.

The thread is indeed old but doing a bit of data research before asking for nerf should be the norm. The game is pretty flexible, you can create, build, try and delete any profession/build in sPvP without investing much time or ressource. I'm sorry to say it but if the person don't have these informations it's bound to be either a L2P issue or simply a troll.

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Condition thief rn is a counter pick to many class and forgive the metaphor but the numbers on this p/d build when they hit feels like a full burst from a core ranger plus a bird, only difference is you cannot heal or do anything besides use a cleanse but even then it’s risky becuz of confusion and poison

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