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My Rambling Thoughts About Strike Missions.


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You should just ignore those elitists and play what you want in PuG content.Don't join any squad with unreasonable elitist requirements.

As opposed to zombyturtle.5980, I think it's totally fine to bring defensive stats.I myself run full Marauder with Wurm runes on my DH.It lets me survive longer, thus dealing damage longer. Since I hardly stay over 90%, Wurm runes also outperform Scholar for me.

I think a DPS who stays alive and dealing slightly sup-optimal damage is worth much more than a Meta-DPS who dies 10% into the fight.

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@"Tearthy Flame.1463" said:The first bad experience was from another pug (playing Firebrand) within a group I was clearing bosses with, while using my Minstrel's FB, and right when I joined this group I clearly stated "Minstrel's FB/Boon/Healer" because I do understand I'm most likely not running a commonly known support build- they didn't really think anything of it I guess. Yet the ridicule occurred later (3 or so boss kills), I was asked by the Firebrand Pug to ping my build, I did so, being called dead weight by the person and how wrong my build is. I was not kicked from that group but that's the reaction I got for my build existing.

This reminds me of a situation I was in. Trying to do Slothasor (not a SM) a guild member was using a Power Reaper build, which at the time wasn't exactly "meta". Opened the squad on LFG to get some pugs to fill last slots and got a Dragonhunter (There were 4 Dragonhunters in the squad, kind of meta dps on Slothasor at the time - probably even now). One of the Dragonhunters had the Heavy Legendary Armor and said "Whaaa a Power Reaper?". Despite that "objection" the run started. The Power Reaper outdpsed all four Dragonhunters, in fact was at the top with quite a margin from 2nd place, while the guy with the Legendary Armor was 3rd among the Dragonhunters. Funniest part, the Power Reaper (since she had lower dps potential) was eating mushroom number 2. Yet she did more damage than all meta Dragonhunters (to be fair one of the Dragonhunters was also eating a shroom, but not the "legendary armor DH"). I was the Druid in the squad and was laughing inside when I saw the arcdps results. The Legendary armor DH didn't even speak at the end, because he probably had arcdps running waiting to shame the Reaper, but the... results weren't what he expected.

I'd be curious to see what arcdps had to say about your build compared to that Firebrand pug. What build/gear you use is not always a clear indication of performance, as I've seen so many times in my Raid runs. You were told you were "Dead weight" because nobody in the group was using a dps meter, if they did (and provided you know well how to play your build) the results might've been enlightening.

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@Cerioth.7062 said::P why choose survivability over damage, when you can just do the mechs correctly in berserker gear and do more damage > faster kills > everyone are more likely to survive.

In a perfect world, everyone would be doing the mechs correctly in zerker gear, and we all would have max dps. In reality, a lot of zerkers fall early in the fight, and then need to be revived by their party members (which can then get more people downed). Most pugs will have people in it that don't know the mechanics that well, but DO run a build they found on a website, which then gets them killed. For Grenth's sake, just bring some survivability. Even if its just one defensive skill.

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@"Tearthy Flame.1463" said:But I'm posting again to give more context to ya'll's general query: How I went about doing pug SM's.My main goal from the start was getting the Runic Cape and yes I did get it.Grats. Seriously.... getting that cape is a bit of a grind.Anyway, I did have a very high rate of good groups with nice people and that's far more positive than the two times I was shamed for my build.This may sound cold and unsympathetic, but two incidents of toxicity in what would have been 100 strikes?It really doesn't sound worthy of the disappointment you heaped on Arenanet in your OP.The second experience is more straight forward, I only said "Minstrel's Heal or Diviner's Support Build". The commander just typed W.T.F. and kicked me. Kicking me is fine but being reacted to like that didn't help my depression after the last one... Again, along the lines of feeling worthless.Never allow your worth to be judged by another human being...particularly one who gets booty-bothered about a video game.Never allow your judgement of self worth to be predicated on your acceptance by others... particularly in a video game.So now I'll leave ya'll with a little more added context, what my FB build is:Full Minstrel's of Ascended Attribute Rarity / Superior Rune of the Monk / Staff / Superior Sigil of Concentration & Transference / Firebrand Build Template:[&DQExOQ0ePjpLF0sXUxdTF3oWehYtAS0BiRKJEgAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA=]Build is fine, gear is fine. If you played it right I would absolutely want you on my squad.I'm not sure "Retreat" is big value on Strikes but I sure wouldn't quibble about it.

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If you want to avoid "elitists" just play public pugs. You can't get kicked and people generally only complain if you're AFK or repeatedly screw up the mechanics. Dunno if this is true for any of the other SMs but Forging Steel doesn't even have a fail condition iirc.

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@Mad Queen Malafide.7512 said:

@Cerioth.7062 said::P why choose survivability over damage, when you can just do the mechs correctly in berserker gear and do more damage > faster kills > everyone are more likely to survive.

In a perfect world, everyone would be doing the mechs correctly in zerker gear, and we all would have max dps. In reality, a lot of zerkers fall early in the fight, and then need to be revived by their party members (which can then get more people downed). Most pugs will have people in it that don't know the mechanics that well, but DO run a build they found on a website, which then gets them killed. For Grenth's sake, just bring some survivability. Even if its just one defensive skill.

I dunno, I yet have not had any struggles playing any of my raid builds in strike missions and staying alive. Neither have my team mates - and I havent demanded LI requirements or anything.

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@Cerioth.7062 said:

@Cerioth.7062 said::P why choose survivability over damage, when you can just do the mechs correctly in berserker gear and do more damage > faster kills > everyone are more likely to survive.

In a perfect world, everyone would be doing the mechs correctly in zerker gear, and we all would have max dps. In reality, a lot of zerkers fall early in the fight, and then need to be revived by their party members (which can then get more people downed). Most pugs will have people in it that don't know the mechanics that well, but DO run a build they found on a website, which then gets them killed. For Grenth's sake, just bring some survivability. Even if its just one defensive skill.

I dunno, I yet have not had any struggles playing any of my raid builds in strike missions and staying alive. Neither have my team mates - and I havent demanded LI requirements or anything.

Yet surely you can realize that not everyone plays flawlessly and that there is a spectrum?

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@"Tails.9372" said:If you want to avoid "elitists" just play public pugs. You can't get kicked and people generally only complain if you're AFK or repeatedly screw up the mechanics.This is pretty bad advice.The "Public" option for Strike missions takes forever to form a group and typically attracts players who don't understand the game, the encounter, often how to ready up. Players who have completed a few Strike Missions will always use the LFG tool, using "Public" will leave your team short of the two or three experienced people that make any strike that much easier.Using the "Public" option puts the player in an absolute wasteland.Dunno if this is true for any of the other SMs but Forging Steel doesn't even have a fail condition iirc.All Strikes have a fail condition.Forging Steel is not a Strike.

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@"mindcircus.1506" said:Forging Steel is not a Strike.It might not be by your own definition but for the game it is. The "Prototype Harmonizing Mist Loom" says: "Unlocks an achievement to earn a cape through Strike Missions." and Forging Steel definitely counts.

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@Opopanax.1803 said:

@Cerioth.7062 said::P why choose survivability over damage, when you can just do the mechs correctly in berserker gear and do more damage > faster kills > everyone are more likely to survive.

In a perfect world, everyone would be doing the mechs correctly in zerker gear, and we all would have max dps. In reality, a lot of zerkers fall early in the fight, and then need to be revived by their party members (which can then get more people downed). Most pugs will have people in it that don't know the mechanics that well, but DO run a build they found on a website, which then gets them killed. For Grenth's sake, just bring some survivability. Even if its just one defensive skill.

I dunno, I yet have not had any struggles playing any of my raid builds in strike missions and staying alive. Neither have my team mates - and I havent demanded LI requirements or anything.

Yet surely you can realize that not everyone plays flawlessly and that there is a spectrum?

Playing flawlessly is not even a necessity. Having even decent three supports will get you safely through Boneskinner and Whisper of Jormag.

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@Cerioth.7062 said:Playing flawlessly is not even a necessity. Having even decent three supports will get you safely through Boneskinner and Whisper of Jormag.

Having ten average DPS that play how they want and somewhat know the mechanics get through the Whisper of Jormag Strike mission just fine, too.There is no need for support or Meta in that one.

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@Fueki.4753 said:

@Cerioth.7062 said:Playing flawlessly is not even a necessity. Having even decent three supports will get you safely through Boneskinner and Whisper of Jormag.

Having ten average DPS that play how they want and somewhat know the mechanics get through the Whisper of Jormag Strike mission just fine, too.There is no need for support or Meta in that one.

Yeah, there isnt that much damage pressure as long as people just chill. I feel like many dont realise how easy Whisper is as long as you just dont unnecessarily move around or stand in the boss hitbox.

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@Cerioth.7062 said:

@Cerioth.7062 said::P why choose survivability over damage, when you can just do the mechs correctly in berserker gear and do more damage > faster kills > everyone are more likely to survive.

In a perfect world, everyone would be doing the mechs correctly in zerker gear, and we all would have max dps. In reality, a lot of zerkers fall early in the fight, and then need to be revived by their party members (which can then get more people downed). Most pugs will have people in it that don't know the mechanics that well, but DO run a build they found on a website, which then gets them killed. For Grenth's sake, just bring some survivability. Even if its just one defensive skill.

I dunno, I yet have not had any struggles playing any of my raid builds in strike missions and staying alive. Neither have my team mates - and I havent demanded LI requirements or anything.

Yet surely you can realize that not everyone plays flawlessly and that there is a spectrum?

Playing flawlessly is not even a necessity. Having even decent three supports will get you safely through Boneskinner and Whisper of Jormag.

Well sure, having 3 support that cover all mistakes from casuals can do it. But that in and of itself is assuming a lot about composition of a pug and the support themselves. It sounds like you are bringing your raiding and some of your raiding friends to strikes and are saying you dont have any problems covering deficits in your group. Obviously your set up hasnt experienced issues. I dont think the OP is speaking about that.

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@Opopanax.1803 said:

@Cerioth.7062 said::P why choose survivability over damage, when you can just do the mechs correctly in berserker gear and do more damage > faster kills > everyone are more likely to survive.

In a perfect world, everyone would be doing the mechs correctly in zerker gear, and we all would have max dps. In reality, a lot of zerkers fall early in the fight, and then need to be revived by their party members (which can then get more people downed). Most pugs will have people in it that don't know the mechanics that well, but DO run a build they found on a website, which then gets them killed. For Grenth's sake, just bring some survivability. Even if its just one defensive skill.

I dunno, I yet have not had any struggles playing any of my raid builds in strike missions and staying alive. Neither have my team mates - and I havent demanded LI requirements or anything.

Yet surely you can realize that not everyone plays flawlessly and that there is a spectrum?

Playing flawlessly is not even a necessity. Having even decent three supports will get you safely through Boneskinner and Whisper of Jormag.

Well sure, having 3 support that cover all mistakes from casuals can do it. But that in and of itself is assuming a lot about composition of a pug and the support themselves. It sounds like you are bringing your raiding and some of your raiding friends to strikes and are saying you dont have any problems covering deficits in your group. Obviously your set up hasnt experienced issues. I dont think the OP is speaking about that.

I do not bring raiding friends, I go with complete pugs or with my guildies who are all new to strikes. I either play a dps or one support, and have two pug supports. There are various different, easy comps you can do.

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@Opopanax.1803 said:

@Cerioth.7062 said::P why choose survivability over damage, when you can just do the mechs correctly in berserker gear and do more damage > faster kills > everyone are more likely to survive.

In a perfect world, everyone would be doing the mechs correctly in zerker gear, and we all would have max dps. In reality, a lot of zerkers fall early in the fight, and then need to be revived by their party members (which can then get more people downed). Most pugs will have people in it that don't know the mechanics that well, but DO run a build they found on a website, which then gets them killed. For Grenth's sake, just bring some survivability. Even if its just one defensive skill.

I dunno, I yet have not had any struggles playing any of my raid builds in strike missions and staying alive. Neither have my team mates - and I havent demanded LI requirements or anything.

Yet surely you can realize that not everyone plays flawlessly and that there is a spectrum?

Playing flawlessly is not even a necessity. Having even decent three supports will get you safely through Boneskinner and Whisper of Jormag.

Well sure, having 3 support that cover all mistakes from casuals can do it. But that in and of itself is assuming a lot about composition of a pug and the support themselves. It sounds like you are bringing your raiding and some of your raiding friends to strikes and are saying you dont have any problems covering deficits in your group. Obviously your set up hasnt experienced issues. I dont think the OP is speaking about that.

I pug strike missions everyday, and never had trouble finding 2 healer, 1 alac from LFGs, so I'm not sure how often you have tried.
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@Opopanax.1803 said:Guy is saying all dps noobs or otherwise can do it in all berserker by being Carried by three heals.

I'm pushing back that it doesn't solve all your problems for casuals, especially assuming your support are casuals also.

Going unoptimal builds will not solve the casuals' problems either, though. This is very backwards thinking. Thinking you will survive better by adding more survivability. In truth what will make you survive better is proper boon uptimes, proper heals, stacking, not panicking and doing more dps > killing things faster > less time to fuck up.

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@Opopanax.1803 said:Guy is saying all dps noobs or otherwise can do it in all berserker by being Carried by three heals.

I'm pushing back that it doesn't solve all your problems for casuals, especially assuming your support are casuals also.

Oh well, Kitty got a good idea: she could try doing all strikes today as berserker's DH and soldier's DH while playing with simple scepter+focus, no F2/F3 in zerker's just for extrapolation, and then report back about how it went. Or actually, guess she could record a video of it. ;)

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@LadyKitty.6120 said:

@Opopanax.1803 said:Guy is saying all dps noobs or otherwise can do it in all berserker by being Carried by three heals.

I'm pushing back that it doesn't solve all your problems for casuals, especially assuming your support are casuals also.

Oh well, Kitty got a good idea: she could try doing all strikes today as berserker's DH and soldier's DH while playing with simple scepter+focus, no F2/F3 in zerker's just for extrapolation, and then report back about how it went. Or actually, guess she could record a video of it. ;)

Its a great experiment, but i have a feeling you arent a noob!

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@LadyKitty.6120 said:

@Opopanax.1803 said:Guy is saying all dps noobs or otherwise can do it in all berserker by being Carried by three heals.

I'm pushing back that it doesn't solve all your problems for casuals, especially assuming your support are casuals also.

Oh well, Kitty got a good idea: she could try doing all strikes today as berserker's DH and soldier's DH while playing with simple scepter+focus, no F2/F3 in zerker's just for extrapolation, and then report back about how it went. Or actually, guess she could record a video of it. ;)do it

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@Cerioth.7062 said:Going unoptimal builds will not solve the casuals' problems either, though.

People really need to stop thinking non-optimal builds automatically are bad builds.There are many non-optimal builds that are sufficiently close to optimal builds.In fact, taking individual strengths, weaknesses, enjoyment and playstyle in consideration, some of these non-optimal builds can outperform those on-paper optimal builds.

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@Fueki.4753 said:

@Cerioth.7062 said:Going unoptimal builds will not solve the casuals' problems either, though.

People really need to stop thinking
non-optimal
builds automatically are bad builds.There are many
non-optimal
builds that are sufficiently close to optimal builds.In fact, taking individual strengths, weaknesses,
enjoyment
and playstyle in consideration, some of these
non-optimal
builds can outperform those
on-paper
optimal builds.

It goes both ways. Advising someone to go for more survivability is also asking someone to play on a build they are not used to, and as such it can also end in decrease of efficiency.

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@Fueki.4753 said:

@"Cerioth.7062" said:Going unoptimal builds will not solve the casuals' problems either, though.

People really need to stop thinking
non-optimal
builds automatically are bad builds.There are many
non-optimal
builds that are sufficiently close to optimal builds.In fact, taking individual strengths, weaknesses,
enjoyment
and playstyle in consideration, some of these
non-optimal
builds can outperform those
on-paper
optimal builds.

The "not being able to play what I want" argument does not really work here either. You do not need to play meta in order to play an optimal build. Most playstyles and builds will have a more optimized version for strike missions.

For example I know this power hammer scrapper player. The build does just fine as a concept, but a berserker's scrapper will be a lot more efficient for the squad than a soldier's scrapper.

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@"Cerioth.7062" said:The "not being able to play what I want" argument does not really work here either. You do not need to play meta in order to play an optimal build.By definition meta means playing an optimal build. This is exactly what a meta build is, the optimal build under the given circumstance.But the problem is not people playing suboptimal builds or "playing what they want" . Meta builds are not needed on Strikes and they are not needed on Raids.The problem occurs when when that player who is running whatever build they choose underperforms.... and I am not talking missing the benchmark by 10k, I'm talking < 3k dps on Shiverpeaks Pass while pretending to be DPS.And as much as no one wants to admit this... In Strikes there are far more players in full meta build/gear underperforming than there are people showing up on meme builds so bad that don't contribute and defiantly shouting "I PLAY HOW I WANT".

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@mindcircus.1506 said:

@"Cerioth.7062" said:The "not being able to play what I want" argument does not really work here either. You do not need to play meta in order to play an optimal build.By definition meta means playing an optimal build. This is exactly what a meta build is, the optimal build under the given circumstance.But the problem is not people playing suboptimal builds or "playing what they want" . Meta builds are not needed on Strikes and they are not needed on Raids.The problem occurs when when that
player
who is running whatever build they choose underperforms.... and I am not talking missing the benchmark by 10k, I'm talking < 3k dps on Shiverpeaks Pass while pretending to be DPS.And as much as no one wants to admit this... In Strikes there are far more players in full meta build/gear underperforming than there are people showing up on meme builds so bad that don't contribute and defiantly shouting "I PLAY HOW I WANT".

Yeah this is true also.

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