Keep seeing remove downed state....

[Brimstone Jack.3462]

It really is weird seeing all of these people who keep dying to downstate. Like, do you just stand there and let them kill you? No cc? No running out of range or breaking LOS? No CC to prevent ress? Doing just about anything they have keys assigned for will help you not die. Find one that works for you. No, really. Press and hold the "W" key. Enjoy no longer dying to downstate.

[Swagger.1459]

@"Luclinraider.2317" said:I see new posts on this every week.

I see the most wanted ranked mode for next season is 2v2 and 3v3 arenas.....without downed state.

I've never seen a community so vocal about wanting the downed state removed (from WvW and PvP), just to have the company behind the game be so prideful about their failed system that they would rather kill off their own PvP scene (which they did years ago, primarily due to downed state), than have their well made combat system run with the big boys.

I play like...every MMO out there. Runescape, FF14, WoW, WoW Classic, GW2, EQ2, EQ1 Private Servers, CoH, DAoC Private Servers, BDO....and I honestly feel like GW2 and BDO have the best combat out there...(Very different combat). GW2 has a big awesome world to explore, story lines, voice acting, decent visual, no gear tradmill, achievements to get if you want (Legends)....it's just such a great MMO, and has the potential to have a PvP scene up there with WoW Arena...if they would just do it right.

I have at least nine friends who I play other MMO's with who have flat out said, they enjoyed GW2, but quit because of the downed system as it ruins PvP. And even when I try to get them to give it another try they flat out say "As long as downed state is in PvP I will never play GW2 again".

Now sure...this is just nine people I know...but I'm sure there are hundreds, thousands....maybe even hundreds of thousands of people who feel similar.

Combine that with the obvious cry for its removal from the current player base...and I just can't see why Anet still insists on keeping it.

They run WvW weekends without it, and they run arena without it...so the attempt at "It's built into the game and won't work without it", doesn't fly.

I'm also very aware there are some people who love the downed state in PvP....it just seem's like its a very small portion compared to those who hate it.

I mean...show me one other successful and well known PvP MMORPG that has been able to implement a downed state in a competitive PvP format? It can't be done because in an MMORPG setting it forgives all your mistakes...thus making a competitive aspect pointless.

Yeah, no... "kill off their own PvP scene (which they did years ago, primarily due to downed state)"... Making things up bc you don't like DS doesn't mean it's true. And after X years of the same mechanics you shouldn't have an issue... that learning curve should be gone. And there are a ton of other real reasons why pvp didn't do well, and it has noting to do with DS.

[Rouien.5234]

I really hope they don't remove downstate because then that's going to make it a lot less team oriented and more focused on straight focusing someone rather than rotating and capping points.

Perhaps they could add another ranked mode or something where resses and downs aren't a thing but, I really don't like the idea of simply kill focused modes around the board or that type gameplay because then it'll be no better than what it was back then.

Before, there was no need to stomp because you could EASILY cleave through downed people. Which means, you didn't really have to think about much else but winning team fights and roaming/killing people because once a person went down, that was basically it. Now, even in teamfights, IF someone goes down then it's not the end of a fight IF they can be ressed and helped. Even in team fights, you should be focusing, but focusing the right target.

That MIGHT work in WvW where it's simply bigger squads win 8/10 of the time. But, sPvP is SUPPOSED to be fined tune to skill based and competitive play. It shouldn't simply be "If you have this many people then you win" it should be "If you have people with this amount of skill doing x."

In a way it, it makes people think. Are you sure that's not a support we're about drop? If you mindlessly dump your big cooldowns and damage into one person just to have them ressed again, then who's fault is it really? The person ressing/supporting is doing their job, so shouldn't you be punished? It's the same thing with Mercy from overwatch having a res. Instead of just dumping your CDs and movement into trying to catch another DD just to have them ressed and you be out of position, it's best to communicate and get the support first. It (sometimes) made people think like. "Maybe I should bait x to get y. Maybe i should feign x to have them to z"

Idk that's just my thoughts, but I hope it doesn't get taken away cause I def won't play.

[Luclinraider.2317]

@"Stand The Wall.6987" said:dood lol downed state did not primarily kill pvp

Actually if you go back on Youtube and watch alot of the "Pro" at the time teams, many of them said on their own stream that they were quitting because they felt downed state didn't promote competitive PvP.

Now if we try that on another game and lets say WoW Arena suddenly was cancelled and dead, and several pro's said "I quit WoW because Rogue perma stealth is a dumb mechanic that ruins PvP". I think we can both agree after the 15th pro saying the same thing, that rogue perma stealth ruined their competitive pvp scene.

[Tharan.9085]

@Luclinraider.2317 said:

@"Stand The Wall.6987" said:dood lol downed state did not primarily kill pvp

Actually if you go back on Youtube and watch alot of the "Pro" at the time teams, many of them said on their own stream that they were quitting because they felt downed state didn't promote competitive PvP.

Now if we try that on another game and lets say WoW Arena suddenly was cancelled and dead, and several pro's said "I quit WoW because Rogue perma stealth is a dumb mechanic that ruins PvP". I think we can both agree after the 15th pro saying the same thing, that rogue perma stealth ruined their competitive pvp scene.

Actually GW2 ESL died bc of bunker builds, not bc of downstate

[Luclinraider.2317]

@Tharan.9085 said:

@Luclinraider.2317 said:

@"Stand The Wall.6987" said:dood lol downed state did not primarily kill pvp

Actually if you go back on Youtube and watch alot of the "Pro" at the time teams, many of them said on their own stream that they were quitting because they felt downed state didn't promote competitive PvP.

Now if we try that on another game and lets say WoW Arena suddenly was cancelled and dead, and several pro's said "I quit WoW because Rogue perma stealth is a dumb mechanic that ruins PvP". I think we can both agree after the 15th pro saying the same thing, that rogue perma stealth ruined their competitive pvp scene.

Actually GW2 ESL died bc of bunker builds, not bc of downstate

Agreed...but what build does downed state benefit more than any others?

Bunker Builds!

Downed state just took hard to kill builds and made them literally unkillable on point.

[KrHome.1920]

edit: Whoops, this is the PvP forum... nevermind.

[KrHome.1920]

@Jayden Reese.9542 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:Most complaints after the no-downstate events were about dying to oneshot builds.

Since this is fixed since feb25 it's time to finally remove downstate and start to reward skill instead of outnumbering.

I always like the reward skill argument. Somehow many of us down and finish no problem. Of course if you a ranger and target that necro in a group from 1500 rng away it is total skill on your part and him getting rezzed when you only downed him not killed is unfair.I realized that this is the PvP forum. Downstate discussions are usually WvW oriented....

I have a completely different opinion in this case. PvP is structured and in this game mode downstate is absolutely no issue.

[Scoobaniec.9561]

@"Rouien.5234" said:I really hope they don't remove downstate because then that's going to make it a lot less team oriented and more focused on straight focusing someone rather than rotating and capping points.

It literally reads as "hey i dont like pvp, i just want to run around on map and cap points"

"Pvp'ers" in 2020 are truly different kind of breed. God forbit ppl actually wanting to fight other players instead of camping a lame circle until it switch a color ?

Besides players focusing someone is actually a team oriented effort itself

[cek.5478]

Do you really playing this game? Or even close to gold rank? I dont think so.. What u gonna do against cancerous rev, fb and core necro tank-condi spams? Or you think everybody should play with those classes and builds? Spam all and disengage wait them die somewhere...Downstate is not even the latest thing on list about "fixing pvp". There are too many broken mechanics, classes, builds, skills.

[Terror.7128]

Said this YEARS ago, right at development, but did anyone listen to me? Noooooooo

DId everyone downvote me to oblivion? Yeeeeeeeep.

Cause all you idiots are always too scared to stand out, to be the nail that might be hammered, you all are so terrified of being negative till It's too late.

You coulda been enjoying an amazing game for 4 years, instead your not, and neither was I, I quit very quickly after realizing this games PvP was fundamentally doomed for a pro pvper due to the downed state.

1v2 is legitimately impossible, unless the 1 person is not only a god, but also with the perfect setup, on the strongest class, with the most meta build, then maybe, JUST MAYBE they can do it.

A third person comes? whilst the 2 downed people have more hp than they did alive and are ccing you (and even doing more dmg sometimes than when they were alive) forget about it.

Ruined game I never got to play, loved GW1, was so excited for this, it's unreal how one mechanic can destroy an entire game, especially for a PvPer in this instance, I so want to be in the GW universe again, but if I can't defeat my enemies no matter how good I am due to flawed design, what's the point? I'm a pvper...

At the very beginning I shit you not I literally 1v4'd on my necromancer, a lot of times , just to die anyway cause I couldn't finish my opponents, even if by some miracle you finish 1 with all of them damaging/interrupting you, that is more than enough time for the others to res THEMSELVES, ah god damn I hate thinking about this mess.

It's such an obvious flaw, what a waste of potential and work.

Keep it for PVE, but the fact it's taken you 8 years and you still don't realize it's ruined pvp....christ...you remember the monk problem? How everyone complained no one ever died? Yeah well you removed healers and made people even HARDER TO KILl than GW1 with 3 monks.....

[Quadox.7834]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:dood lol downed state did not primarily kill pvp

Well to be fair, some argue bunker chrono meta did and a large part of that meta was quickness ressing downed teammates

[Terror.7128]

@Tharan.9085 said:

@Luclinraider.2317 said:

@"Stand The Wall.6987" said:dood lol downed state did not primarily kill pvp

Actually if you go back on Youtube and watch alot of the "Pro" at the time teams, many of them said on their own stream that they were quitting because they felt downed state didn't promote competitive PvP.

Now if we try that on another game and lets say WoW Arena suddenly was cancelled and dead, and several pro's said "I quit WoW because Rogue perma stealth is a dumb mechanic that ruins PvP". I think we can both agree after the 15th pro saying the same thing, that rogue perma stealth ruined their competitive pvp scene.

Actually GW2 ESL died bc of bunker builds, not bc of downstate

ACTUALLY, I quit GW2 after waiting for it for years, after getting the legacy stuff and after being so ungodly excited it was unreal.

Then I quit after only 1 fucking week, I never quit an mmo that fast, not even close, not even THESE days, when I'm far more jaded and everyone is.

I just fundamentally understood that as a PvPer, as long as downed state existed, PvP was mathematically impossible as a solo player vs just more than even 1 person.

So I quit, I bet you didn't, I can speak for those who quit, because I did and everyone else I know did of the hardcore pvpers (who I obviously associate with because I am one) because of fucking DOWNED STATE, SO YES IT FUCKING DID!

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

I swear 90% of this community had never walked into WvW during no-downstate events. If they had, they would clearly understand that no-downstate will be not only the biggest balance issue that PvP has ever seen, but it will likely be the nail in the coffin that actually does kill GW2.

So much of this game's balance, WvW and PvP alike, is within the dynamic that downstate creates. Downstate makes it so a single strong veteran actually has trouble 1v2ing two casual players. Without downstate, a single strong veteran will dumpster people in 1v3s and there won't be anything they can do to stop him.

Then you have the idea that with downstate, players are relatively safe from things like Rangers & Thieves & Mesmers, when balling together with certain classes/builds. The game has been balanced around this dynamic for 9 years. If downstate is removed, you will see Rangers & Thieves & Mesmers become actual God Tier classes that can 1v5 games alone, and I am not joking around about that.

Be very careful what you wish for because you just might get it.

[Quadox.7834]

@Tharan.9085 said:

@Luclinraider.2317 said:

@"Stand The Wall.6987" said:dood lol downed state did not primarily kill pvp

Actually if you go back on Youtube and watch alot of the "Pro" at the time teams, many of them said on their own stream that they were quitting because they felt downed state didn't promote competitive PvP.

Now if we try that on another game and lets say WoW Arena suddenly was cancelled and dead, and several pro's said "I quit WoW because Rogue perma stealth is a dumb mechanic that ruins PvP". I think we can both agree after the 15th pro saying the same thing, that rogue perma stealth ruined their competitive pvp scene.

Actually GW2 ESL died bc of bunker builds, not bc of downstate

U realise the reason nothing could ever die was bcs of Chrono quickness res?

[Quadox.7834]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:I swear 90% of this community had never walked into WvW during no-downstate events. If they had, they would clearly understand that no-downstate will be not only the biggest balance issue that PvP has ever seen, but it will likely be the nail in the coffin that actually does kill GW2.

So much of this game's balance, WvW and PvP alike, is within the dynamic that downstate creates. Downstate makes it so a single strong veteran actually has trouble 1v2ing two casual players. Without downstate, a single strong veteran will dumpster people in 1v3s and there won't be anything they can do to stop him.

Then you have the idea that with downstate, players are relatively safe from things like Rangers & Thieves & Mesmers, when balling together with certain classes/builds. The game has been balanced around this dynamic for 9 years. If downstate is removed, you will see Rangers & Thieves & Mesmers become actual God Tier classes that can 1v5 games alone, and I am not joking around about that.

Be very careful what you wish for because you just might get it.

wvw balance is fkn trash and the max damage is MUCCCCCCCHHHHHHHHH higher than pvp

[Avatar.3568]

No downstate = everybody trys to play gimmicky one shot builds

Also this would decrease comeback potential and teamplay.Interrupting rezzes, or rez abilitys while your mate is stomping/cleaving or interrupting stomping/cleaving and start rezzing as 3 people, while this kill/rez can turn around the match, brings some very intense action.I can understand why people dislike this in unorganized rankeds or general lower skill floor, but even in ranked, people can interrupt it or can cleave and get a kill, maybe even you that is complaining about that could do something against it.

Downstate is a very good mechanic and brings way more depth into the game than most even recognize

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Be very careful what you wish for because you just might get it.

At this point, let the game be balanced into mediocrity, so that way we can at least have Anet take notice in actually changing their balance approach away from this nerf/removal meta.

At this point, let Stick Wars 2 happen.