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Please make Sunless weapons obtainable


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@casualkenny.9817 said:Rng is a turn-on for some, and a major turn-off for others. Rng in gw2 is very, very skewed.

Anet has responded to feedback in the past (statuettes, scion achv, others), and hopefully they would consider it in this instance too.

Hopefully, considering it has been about 7 years now, and this is a situation that gets more ridiculous the more people haven't gotten it after hundreds of runs.

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RNG for a one-off item I can understand. I've been playing since beta and I only got my first precursor drop last year. It felt worth it.But for a weapon set where you only get 1 out of the set and there's a chance you won't get a single one in years?
I really agree with OP in that we should be able to earn a skin somehow. Honestly. I don't think it's an entitled request. It is smart to create new relevance to older content imo.

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100% agree.RNG by itself is fine. We need rare, expensive items.But RNG + timegated (once a day) + Account bound is just the worst design possible.

Remove one of the 3 limitations. If you want to keep RNG, make a slow, guaranteed grindy way to get them (like the spoon). Or make skin versions sellable on TP.

Same problem with Drakkar set now. Same with TT (although at least TT only has 3 skins...)

Even raid rewards have a token system. Why the hell isnt it the case for the dragon hoards?

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@SevlisBavles.3059 said:

I'd rather kill Tequatl 200 times knowing I'll get it in the end than doing him 100+ times and getting absolutely nothing.people have 5+ sunless skins who do teq. They do it each day from start. You kill it only 200? It is small value. You a only on start position. After 5 years if you do teq each day you will get it. So relax and play.

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@lare.5129 said:@SevlisBavles.3059 said:

I'd rather kill Tequatl 200 times knowing I'll get it in the end than doing him 100+ times and getting absolutely nothing.people have 5+ sunless skins who do teq. They do it each day from start. You kill it only 200? It is small value. You a only on start position. After 5 years if you do teq each day you will get it. So relax and play.

There is literally no reason to oppose the addition of an spoon vendor to serve as bad luck protection.In fact,
everyone
interested in those weapons would benefit from that.

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@lare.5129 said:@"SevlisBavles.3059" said:

I'd rather kill Tequatl 200 times knowing I'll get it in the end than doing him 100+ times and getting absolutely nothing.people have 5+ sunless skins who do teq. They do it each day from start. You kill it only 200? It is small value. You a only on start position. After 5 years if you do teq each day you will get it. So relax and play.

They should put that on the cover as a slogan "After 5 years you'll get that item you want!"

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@SevlisBavles.3059 said:

I'd rather kill Tequatl 200 times knowing I'll get it in the end than doing him 100+ times and getting absolutely nothing.people have 5+ sunless skins who do teq. They do it each day from start. You kill it only 200? It is small value. You a only on start position. After 5 years if you do teq each day you will get it. So relax and play.

They should put that on the cover as a slogan "After 5 years you'll get that item you want!"

The problem is that there are some accounts that will never get it. There is no stacking benefit to doing the event multiple times over any given course of time. Some people will simply never have the dice roll in their favor. The sick part is that someone just posted they have extras taking up space and we can't buy them or earn our own. Congrats to those of you that got it but don't fight this change request just because it isn't a problem for you.

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@Super Hayes.6890 said:No item that is account bound should be rng only. That is just stupid by design. It is literally possible to kill teq every day the rest of your life and not get this drop.

This is where the discussion should have ended. Collection rewards and one-time-only drops are fine as account rewards. Everything else that has a rare/rng drop rate should be tradeable.

Unfortunately ANet does this even with BL chests now. I had just today a guild member raging about the stupid rng behind a skin that is BL chest drop rng + account bound. This is even worse, as it might be deemed a predatory business practice.

In the case of sunless weapons there isn't even a financial reason to keep it that hard.

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took me about 2 months of killing Teq every day to get a single drop. Back then of course you had to do the mystic forge conversion. Not sure if thats still the case now though.

This was also before HoT i was killing for the GS in preparation for reaper. Ive used the GS ever since then basically.As far as the drop rate goes I think maybe the best way would have been awarding at least one Teq Chest after completing all of his related world boss achievements which will take most people several Teq runs. Promising 1 weapon at the end of that i dont think would be unfair.

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@Super Hayes.6890 said:No item that is account bound should be rng only. That is just stupid by design. It is literally possible to kill teq every day the rest of your life and not get this drop.

Completely agree. If an item is BoA, it should then be earnable via tokens or an achievement/reward track. If it is only through RNG, then it should be tradable. Items should NEVER be BoA AND RNG, especially in a game like GW2 where, like it or not, Fashion Wars pretty much is the ultimate endgame. The OP's proposal should be extended to the Scion weapons from Dragonfall and the Broken Voice weapons from Drakkar too.

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@TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

@"Strider Pj.2193" said:The stats on sunless May be perfect for necros as you deem, however, the skin is just that: a skin.

The stats, which make the weapons ‘perfect for necros’ can be obtained in many other ways.

There is no problem allowing skins to be obtainable by RNG.

He never said anything about stats. This is purely a skin issue. And yes, it does take years to get a fair amount of the weapons. I've done Tequatl on a daily basis for about 3 years, round and about, and have 6 Sunless skins in total. That's 2 per year on average. Considering there are 19 skins, it'll take about 9 to 10 years to get them all.

I understand his frustration. But I agree there's nothing wrong with having skins that are only obtainable through rare RNG drops. It just sucks for OP that it just so happens to be a skin set he wants. I have the same issue now with Scion weapons. But I'm not advocating for a more guaranteed way to obtain them. Some things should require patience and dedication. This is an MMO, after all.

If you think 9-10 years is considered a fair and reasonable measure of "patience and dedication", then you've pretty much lost all but the most hardcore crowd which I'm fairly certain ArenaNet didn't intend for completing this collection to be much harder than crafting a dozen legendaries.

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@Friday.7864 said:

@Clyan.1593 said:People love to oppose things. It's fun. Especially when there is clearly nothing to get from it.It's also called white knighting, something people do so they can feel important because their stance lines up with what the people in charge supposedly want.The best of the best then say stuff like: WeLl, I dOnT cARe, sO I aM aGaInST iT, yOu sEe?In reality they just want things to stay difficult for others.I remember when the wardrobe was added how some people got stinky because some skins were brought back to the game - like that S1 tentacle backpiece for example.It's just people being kitten.

That is so true! o:It's really off putting and makes the forum appear toxic and unwelcoming when old players turn practically hostile towards often sensible suggestions.They did it the hard way so it has to stay like that for anyone attempting to do the same - even if they have years of catching up to do.Best example was the shatterer achievement - someone kept shooting down the opener for suggesting very reasonable changes, kept calling the event easy and posting on and on against any changes... Told them to go show the opener how to do it since it's easy... Suddenly they stopped posting. Quite sad tbh

On topic: The skins should be purchasable, the actual ascended can stay a drop imo.

I've been playing since launch and I agree that the RNG has become a problem for rewards that can still function as very effective retention incentives without the RNG, and still preserve their prestige.

Sunless, Scion, and Broken Voice weapons should NEVER have been ascended from the start. The appeal is the skins themselves. Most egregious is Tequatl which still regularly drops one non-Sunless Ascended Weapon Box every other spawn for a lucky participant in the zerg.

I want to make it clear that I'm not advocating for less RNG because I got the short end of the stick. My account for some reason after nearly 10,000 hours in the game has ZERO precursor drops but extraordinarily insane luck with Ascendeds. I've had Ascended Armor Boxes drop for me in 2 successive days of Triple Trouble two times in my GW2 career, gotten nearly two dozen ascended boxes from Tequatl, not to mention from reward track chests in PvP AND WvW. Other than crafting 3 weapons early on when Ascended was introduced and crafting 3 armor sets for achievement, every other Ascended equipped on my fully ascended 9 characters (some even have two template sets) came from drops. They drop so frequently for me, I've yet to touch my 98 Grandmaster Marks.

Despite my veteran status and luck with Ascendeds (I'm 5 or 6 Hoards away from completing the Sunless collection) , I would still advocate for non-RNG acquisition for such skins because there's just no justifying 9-10 years of trying to complete a collection in the name of player retention and engagement.

It's like ArenaNet keeps churning their GDs with no clear direction what to do when it comes to rewards. What they did with Pact Machetes was perfect. Earn them doing Dragon Stand events or buy them with currencies earned from other HoT Maps. Yet when it comes to Mistborn Keys, they couldn't implement the same. I know enjoyability is subjective, but Dragonfall feels less fun than Dragonstand. With only one skin guaranteed for the first 1000 coffers opened instead of this being a repeatable achievement, I'm not about to break my soul farming Dragonfall ad nauseum for the hope of completing the Scion collection. The 1000 coffers for Scion weapons thing needs to be repeatable and Mistborn Keys need to be sold by merchants for all S4 map currencies the way Pact Machetes are sold.

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@"Tumult.2578" said:Having looted Teq's Horde 2 days in a row, and having several taking up bank space, I can't agree with a change.

This is the equivalent of "I was born to a billionaire. I can't agree with change that doesn't diminish my current privilege except help those in poverty."

Buddy. You do realize that if they implement a non-RNG redemption option without removing the RNG drops, you don't have to partake in the redemption if you don't want to right?

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@Skotlex.7580 said:

@Super Hayes.6890 said:No item that is account bound should be rng only. That is just stupid by design. It is literally possible to kill teq every day the rest of your life and not get this drop.

This is where the discussion should have ended. Collection rewards and one-time-only drops are fine as account rewards. Everything else that has a rare/rng drop rate should be tradeable.

Unfortunately ANet does this even with BL chests now. I had just today a guild member raging about the stupid rng behind a skin that is BL chest drop rng + account bound. This is even worse, as it might be deemed a predatory business practice.

In the case of sunless weapons there isn't even a financial reason to keep it that hard.

Geezus, that Vermilion Tail Feather... Predatory is an apt description.

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@Sylum.1806 said:

@"Tumult.2578" said:Having looted Teq's Horde 2 days in a row, and having several taking up bank space, I can't agree with a change.

This is the equivalent of "I was born to a billionaire. I can't agree with change that doesn't diminish my current privilege except help those in poverty."

Buddy. You do realize that if they implement a non-RNG redemption option without removing the RNG drops, you don't have to partake in the redemption if you don't want to right?

I'm pretty sure almost anyone against any kind of change on this has already gotten a hoard.

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@SevlisBavles.3059 said:

@"Tumult.2578" said:Having looted Teq's Horde 2 days in a row, and having several taking up bank space, I can't agree with a change.

This is the equivalent of "I was born to a billionaire. I can't agree with change that doesn't diminish my current privilege except help those in poverty."

Buddy. You do realize that if they implement a non-RNG redemption option without removing the RNG drops, you don't have to partake in the redemption if you don't want to right?

I'm pretty sure almost anyone against any kind of change on this has already gotten a hoard.

Im not against it and I got 6 hoards.

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How is Teq’s Horde different than the Badge of Honor? What you’re seeing in posts from long term players is the long term exposure to the Developers actions. It doesn’t take long to come upon something you can’t get unless you do game content you don’t necessarily enjoy. We become accustomed to do “whatever it takes”. It’s one of the costs of having a ton of content and a need to keep a variety of players active in each area. Teq is like every other event with an achievement and rewards. The better rewards should be harder to get. I usually see an exotic, a few rares, and a bunch of salvage. Still, that’s as good as any other event in core Tyria. We have become accustomed to these methods, not against change. To get the long term players you need to get those basic requirements changed for everything, not just the one thing you want.

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Idk I'm not opposed to it and if the Devs instituted a 250 spoons per skin turn in or something like that I wouldn't really care. But I also understand those that are opposed.There is nothing wrong with having some rare rng skins how many are there actually?

For the most part I enjoy doing Teq, most of the time, when I dont I take some time off from hitting the boss daily unless I'm on the area. I think I've got 65ish spoons in my bank. I figured some time back if I remember I'd collect them till I hit my next hoard or ascended weapon or something like that.

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I have approx 2+3+4 hoards. I'm personally not a fan of the skins. I am in support.

I am always in support of a tandem of rng+consistent rewards when a pseudo-rng system is bad. I believe that is the best way to cater to the 2 major categories of ppl in how they enjoy being rewarded ('thrill' vs 'work=consistentreward')

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