Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Your entitlement to my LFG requirements


Recommended Posts

@Mad Queen Malafide.7512 said:

@"Cyninja.2954" said:Now imagine if people started to tell you that you have no right to make "newb friendly fractal group, all welcome" groups? How would that impact your enjoyment of the game?

I'm not sure what the point is that you are trying to make.

Simple, this thread is about players actively disagreeing with how someone setup their LFG.

You just now gave an example how you made your own LFG, and had a great experience with it. You should be the first to support and agree that players should have every right to make the LFGs how THEY want. If then similar minded players join, there will never be issues.

EDIT:

@Mad Queen Malafide.7512 said:It wouldn't affect me, first of all. But second, that wouldn't happen, because I'm being inclusive. I haven't seen anyone in the game being against being inclusive. So where are you going with this?

Ah so the trigger word is inclusive. Sounds more to me like: "everyone is entitled to their own opinion as long as its mine".

I am going to link to a word definition absolutely unrelated to this topic:

2 : a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@mindcircus.1506 said:

@"Amineo.8951" said:I'm not hating speedrunners or top tier guilds, I'm not the best player and I'm a human being with flaws, but this kind of behaviour is not making me want to come back making me wanna continue playing other games and I'm sure there are dozens of people out there who think the same, just my 2 cents.Out of curiosity and no sarcasm intended but an honest question:Why is "Block and move on" not an option? Why allow a clearly ugly person this kind of power over you?

Because this isn't the only time this happened? This is perhaps at the very least 1/3 or maybe 1/4 of the endgame community being like this guy, even though it's below 50% that's still a lot.

Maybe it's unrelated but you would think people would stop being jerks with a pandemic going on worldwide, but they still manage to be dumb fools even years later, this is the main reason why humanity cannot evolve and is bound to vanish as things gets worse and worse every day.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Amineo.8951 said:

@Amineo.8951 said:I'm not hating speedrunners or top tier guilds, I'm not the best player and I'm a human being with flaws, but this kind of behaviour is not making me want to come back making me wanna continue playing other games and I'm sure there are dozens of people out there who think the same, just my 2 cents.Out of curiosity and no sarcasm intended but an honest question:Why is "Block and move on" not an option? Why allow a clearly ugly person this kind of power over you?

Because this isn't the only time this happened? This is perhaps at the very least 1/3 or maybe 1/4 of the endgame community being like this guy, even though it's below 50% that's still a lot.

Maybe it's unrelated but you would think people would stop being jerks with a pandemic going on worldwide, but they still manage to be dumb fools even years later, this is the main reason why humanity cannot evolve and is bound to vanish as things gets worse and worse every day.

So you have an issue with continually running into the same problem, with different players on the other side of the issue, with you as the one common denominator, yet you see no reason to question how you are approaching this?

Don't join LFG with requirements you don't meet. Problem solved. There are far more "free for all" LFGs daily than there are LI/KP ones. They simply fill faster and thus drop out of the LFG pane more quickly. If you have to wait more than 1-3 minutes for a "free fo all" LFG for strikes, you are in the wrong tab (or way off peak hours).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Amineo.8951" said:Because this isn't the only time this happened? This is perhaps at the very least 1/3 or maybe 1/4 of the endgame community being like this guy, even though it's below 50% that's still a lot.

Maybe it's unrelated but you would think people would stop being jerks with a pandemic going on worldwide, but they still manage to be dumb fools even years later, this is the main reason why humanity cannot evolve and is bound to vanish as things gets worse and worse every day.I want you to consider this.I have, at this point played hundreds of Strike Missions and have never one single time had anything like this happen to me.Not once.Your description of the community running Strike Missions is so far out of alignment with mine that it sounds really really strange. If you have done 10 strikes and this kind of thing happened three times I would say there was a significant issue and might feel the same way as you.

While I am not going to make any assumptions about you and what you do when you join squads I will say two things.

  1. I make my own squads/groups set my own restrictions and word my LFG's carefully as to set the tone of my group. I say "ALL WELCOME" and frequently tell people to bring whatever build they want in my LFGs. This sets a certain expectation that people do not expect a meta comp and leaves a fair amount of the performance shaming power-gamers to pass over my team. There is zero reason you cannot do this yourself. Your squad, your rules.
  2. If you feel that the constant may be you, and you are on NA, add me as a friend and send me a message in game. We can definitely fire up a squad and run a few missions to see if you are doing something that is triggering the jerks.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Amineo.8951 said:I'm not hating speedrunners or top tier guilds, I'm not the best player and I'm a human being with flaws, but this kind of behaviour is not making me want to come back making me wanna continue playing other games and I'm sure there are dozens of people out there who think the same, just my 2 cents.Out of curiosity and no sarcasm intended but an honest question:Why is "Block and move on" not an option? Why allow a clearly ugly person this kind of power over you?

Because this isn't the only time this happened? This is perhaps at the very least 1/3 or maybe 1/4 of the endgame community being like this guy, even though it's below 50% that's still a lot.

Maybe it's unrelated but you would think people would stop being jerks with a pandemic going on worldwide, but they still manage to be dumb fools even years later, this is the main reason why humanity cannot evolve and is bound to vanish as things gets worse and worse every day.

So you have an issue with continually running into the same problem, with different players on the other side of the issue, with you as the one common denominator, yet you see no reason to question how you are approaching this?

Don't join LFG with requirements you don't meet. Problem solved. There are far more "free for all" LFGs daily than there are LI/KP ones. They simply fill faster and thus drop out of the LFG pane more quickly. If you have to wait more than 1-3 minutes for a "free fo all" LFG for strikes, you are in the wrong tab (or way off peak hours).

@Amineo.8951 said:Because this isn't the only time this happened? This is perhaps at the very least 1/3 or maybe 1/4 of the endgame community being like this guy, even though it's below 50% that's still a lot.

Maybe it's unrelated but you would think people would stop being jerks with a pandemic going on worldwide, but they still manage to be dumb fools even years later, this is the main reason why humanity cannot evolve and is bound to vanish as things gets worse and worse every day.I want you to consider this.I have, at this point played
hundreds
of Strike Missions and have never one single time had anything like this happen to me.Not once.Your description of the community running Strike Missions is so far out of alignment with mine that it sounds really really strange. If you have done 10 strikes and this kind of thing happened three times I would say there was a significant issue and might feel the same way as you.

While I am not going to make any assumptions about you and what you do when you join squads I will say two things.
  1. I make my own squads/groups set my own restrictions and word my LFG's carefully as to set the tone of my group. I say "ALL WELCOME" and frequently tell people to bring whatever build they want in my LFGs. This sets a certain expectation that people do not expect a meta comp and leaves a fair amount of the performance shaming power-gamers to pass over my team. There is zero reason you cannot do this yourself. Your squad, your rules.
  2. If you feel that the constant may be you, and you are on NA, add me as a friend and send me a message in game. We can definitely fire up a squad and run a few missions to see if you are doing something that is triggering the jerks.

I talked about Fractals and Raids mainly, Strikes usually doesn't have these issues and I consider these easier than Dungeons pre-HoT. I just think it's legit to talk about these since TC was inserting LIs as a way to select people in content that has nothing to do with Raids.

Also that statement about being more groups not asking for KP is absolutely false, in EU that is because that's where I play, the pages are filled with people asking KP in Raids and Fractals.

It's especially bad in Raids for Path of Fire Wings (aka W5/W6/W7) because people don't ask LIs but specifically KPs from each Wings which furthers push players aside, this is one of the reasons why ArenaNet gave up with Raids, since there are obviously much less people playing these Wings than the HoT ones (aka W1/W2/W3/W4).

Strikes works better in that case because people cannot put dumb requirements like this so there are more "friendlier" groups being formed than in Fractals & Raids.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Amineo.8951 said:

@Amineo.8951 said:I'm not hating speedrunners or top tier guilds, I'm not the best player and I'm a human being with flaws, but this kind of behaviour is not making me want to come back making me wanna continue playing other games and I'm sure there are dozens of people out there who think the same, just my 2 cents.Out of curiosity and no sarcasm intended but an honest question:Why is "Block and move on" not an option? Why allow a clearly ugly person this kind of power over you?

Because this isn't the only time this happened? This is perhaps at the very least 1/3 or maybe 1/4 of the endgame community being like this guy, even though it's below 50% that's still a lot.

Maybe it's unrelated but you would think people would stop being jerks with a pandemic going on worldwide, but they still manage to be dumb fools even years later, this is the main reason why humanity cannot evolve and is bound to vanish as things gets worse and worse every day.

So you have an issue with continually running into the same problem, with different players on the other side of the issue, with you as the one common denominator, yet you see no reason to question how you are approaching this?

Don't join LFG with requirements you don't meet. Problem solved. There are far more "free for all" LFGs daily than there are LI/KP ones. They simply fill faster and thus drop out of the LFG pane more quickly. If you have to wait more than 1-3 minutes for a "free fo all" LFG for strikes, you are in the wrong tab (or way off peak hours).

@Amineo.8951 said:Because this isn't the only time this happened? This is perhaps at the very least 1/3 or maybe 1/4 of the endgame community being like this guy, even though it's below 50% that's still a lot.

Maybe it's unrelated but you would think people would stop being jerks with a pandemic going on worldwide, but they still manage to be dumb fools even years later, this is the main reason why humanity cannot evolve and is bound to vanish as things gets worse and worse every day.I want you to consider this.I have, at this point played
hundreds
of Strike Missions and have never one single time had anything like this happen to me.Not once.Your description of the community running Strike Missions is so far out of alignment with mine that it sounds really really strange. If you have done 10 strikes and this kind of thing happened three times I would say there was a significant issue and might feel the same way as you.

While I am not going to make any assumptions about you and what you do when you join squads I will say two things.
  1. I make my own squads/groups set my own restrictions and word my LFG's carefully as to set the tone of my group. I say "ALL WELCOME" and frequently tell people to bring whatever build they want in my LFGs. This sets a certain expectation that people do not expect a meta comp and leaves a fair amount of the performance shaming power-gamers to pass over my team. There is zero reason you cannot do this yourself. Your squad, your rules.
  2. If you feel that the constant may be you, and you are on NA, add me as a friend and send me a message in game. We can definitely fire up a squad and run a few missions to see if you are doing something that is triggering the jerks.

I talked about Fractals and Raids mainly, Strikes usually doesn't have these issues and I consider these easier than Dungeons pre-HoT.Ok... well.... I run plenty of fractals and again.... never seen this once. So clearly I need a crappy little comment about dungeons after offering to help you and have no idea what I am talking about.But hey... you do you.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Amineo.8951 said:I'm not hating speedrunners or top tier guilds, I'm not the best player and I'm a human being with flaws, but this kind of behaviour is not making me want to come back making me wanna continue playing other games and I'm sure there are dozens of people out there who think the same, just my 2 cents.Out of curiosity and no sarcasm intended but an honest question:Why is "Block and move on" not an option? Why allow a clearly ugly person this kind of power over you?

Because this isn't the only time this happened? This is perhaps at the very least 1/3 or maybe 1/4 of the endgame community being like this guy, even though it's below 50% that's still a lot.

Maybe it's unrelated but you would think people would stop being jerks with a pandemic going on worldwide, but they still manage to be dumb fools even years later, this is the main reason why humanity cannot evolve and is bound to vanish as things gets worse and worse every day.

So you have an issue with continually running into the same problem, with different players on the other side of the issue, with you as the one common denominator, yet you see no reason to question how you are approaching this?

Don't join LFG with requirements you don't meet. Problem solved. There are far more "free for all" LFGs daily than there are LI/KP ones. They simply fill faster and thus drop out of the LFG pane more quickly. If you have to wait more than 1-3 minutes for a "free fo all" LFG for strikes, you are in the wrong tab (or way off peak hours).

@Amineo.8951 said:Because this isn't the only time this happened? This is perhaps at the very least 1/3 or maybe 1/4 of the endgame community being like this guy, even though it's below 50% that's still a lot.

Maybe it's unrelated but you would think people would stop being jerks with a pandemic going on worldwide, but they still manage to be dumb fools even years later, this is the main reason why humanity cannot evolve and is bound to vanish as things gets worse and worse every day.I want you to consider this.I have, at this point played
hundreds
of Strike Missions and have never one single time had anything like this happen to me.Not once.Your description of the community running Strike Missions is so far out of alignment with mine that it sounds really really strange. If you have done 10 strikes and this kind of thing happened three times I would say there was a significant issue and might feel the same way as you.

While I am not going to make any assumptions about you and what you do when you join squads I will say two things.
  1. I make my own squads/groups set my own restrictions and word my LFG's carefully as to set the tone of my group. I say "ALL WELCOME" and frequently tell people to bring whatever build they want in my LFGs. This sets a certain expectation that people do not expect a meta comp and leaves a fair amount of the performance shaming power-gamers to pass over my team. There is zero reason you cannot do this yourself. Your squad, your rules.
  2. If you feel that the constant may be you, and you are on NA, add me as a friend and send me a message in game. We can definitely fire up a squad and run a few missions to see if you are doing something that is triggering the jerks.

I talked about Fractals and Raids mainly, Strikes usually doesn't have these issues and I consider these easier than Dungeons pre-HoT. I just think it's legit to talk about these since TC was inserting LIs as a way to select people in content that has nothing to do with Raids.

Fractals have far more groups without requirements or minimum requirements like "healer or druid" for T4. They simply fill fast.

Fractal CMs have requirements because players with varying experience don't want to take inexperienced players along. Even here, groups without requirements fill faster, but are more seldom put up because the amount of players willing to learn the content is far lower than the amount of players experienced with the content (unlike T4 fractals which has a far bigger player base running them). So the issue here is rather the amount of players willing to learn the content.

The problem here specific to you is: you are looking in the wrong place to find groups fitting your experience level.

@Amineo.8951 said:Also that statement about being more groups not asking for KP is absolutely false, in EU that is because that's where I play, the pages are filled with people asking KP in Raids and Fractals.

Yes, because the amount of groups for experienced raiders exceeds the amount of groups with new raiders in LFG. That's because most new players find groups via other avenues which are more successful than LFG.

@Amineo.8951 said:It's especially bad in Raids for Path of Fire Wings (aka W5/W6/W7) because people don't ask LIs but specifically KPs from each Wings which furthers push players aside, this is one of the reasons why ArenaNet gave up with Raids, since there are obviously much less people playing these Wings than the HoT ones (aka W1/W2/W3/W4).

Yes, those wings are more difficulty to get into via the LFG. If only there was more ways to get into raiding. Then again, you are free to list your own LFG at any time and start a group and get people motivated to learn the fights.

@Amineo.8951 said:Strikes works better in that case because people cannot put dumb requirements like this so there are more "friendlier" groups being formed than in Fractals & Raids.

No, strikes are easier and less failure heavy, especially the first 3. Stop applying your faulty reasoning to why there is lower demands in LFG. Demands in LFG increase with content difficulty and group performance requirements. That's true across the entire game, hence why you don't see any requirements for open world bosses or events.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Cyninja.2954 said:Simple, this thread is about players actively disagreeing with how someone setup their LFG.

Specifically, with how they exclude people with very absurd requirements. Don't leave that out. There is a difference between positivity and welcoming all manner of people, and the exact opposite. They are not the same, obviously.

@Cyninja.2954 said:You just now gave an example how you made your own LFG, and had a great experience with it. You should be the first to support and agree that players should have every right to make the LFGs how THEY want. If then similar minded players join, there will never be issues.

So because I gave an example of a positive way to make a LFG, I should there for approve of every kind of LFG, including the really exclusive and unpleasant ones?

@Cyninja.2954 said:Ah so the trigger word is inclusive. Sounds more to me like: "everyone is entitled to their own opinion as long as its mine".

Well this reply of yours is all manners of unpleasant isn't it?Something tells me that you're not really interested in polite discussion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Mad Queen Malafide.7512 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:Simple, this thread is about players actively disagreeing with how someone setup their LFG.

Specifically, with how they exclude people with very absurd requirements. Don't leave that out. There is a difference between positivity and welcoming all manner of people, and the exact opposite. They are not the same, obviously.

No there isn't. If you demand the right to freedom to make groups how you want, that right must be extended to everybody, within the framework set by Arenanet (aka not offensive, no harassment, etc.). You don't get to cherry pick who's LFG demands are valid and who's are not. Your right extends to not joining that group, which I approve of you making use of, and that is IT.

Spare me the righteous "but my LFG was inclusive". To that all I can say is:The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

It's either universal freedom for everyone, or no one.

@Mad Queen Malafide.7512 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:You just now gave an example how you made your own LFG, and had a great experience with it. You should be the first to support and agree that players should have every right to make the LFGs how THEY want. If then similar minded players join, there will never be issues.

So because I gave an example of a positive way to make a LFG, I should there for approve of every kind of LFG, including the really exclusive and unpleasant ones?

No, imagine someone had joined your group and started being toxic? You would have had every right to remove that person. You have that right because you clearly stated what you were looking for and he was not fitting. I would have been right there with you and said: yes, that was absolutely not okay. That person should have never joined, you were in every right to remove them.

The same extends to everyone else. If they made clearly what they are looking for, for which I have yet to see a good argument against, they have every right to remove players who do not fit that criteria.

@Mad Queen Malafide.7512 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:Ah so the trigger word is inclusive. Sounds more to me like: "everyone is entitled to their own opinion as long as its mine".

Well this reply of yours is all manners of unpleasant isn't it?Something tells me that you're not really interested in polite discussion.

I shall refer you to my previous comment about the road to Hell. The irony of it all being you not even realizing what the statement you made was.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"mindcircus.1506" said:Some people want the maximum chance of success as fast as possible and they see LFG requirements as the way to achieve that. Others, such as myself feel that teams fill faster with an inclusive agenda and this gets things done every bit as quickly and without the pressure.

i usually join "250+LI" squads for strikes. if you lfg during prime-time it takes about 2-5min to fill the squad, clearing all 5 strikes then takes 20-25 minutes. so overall 30min for a full strike clear.by the experience i have with "all welcome" squads, not only does it take much longer to clear all strikes - you also get less loot.for example: just recently i did strikes with one of those "all welcome" squads on my alt-account. i was top dps while running suboptimal exotic gear (some pieces actually had soldiers stats). we didnt kill a single boss within the gold timer. we whiped several times at WoJ, so it took more than 30min to kill it. after 1 hour i left without even killing boneskinner.

in conclusion:i dont mind joining "all welcome" squads and lowering my expectations. but saying those squads are just as fast is just wrong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Hyrai.8720 said:

@"mindcircus.1506" said:Some people want the maximum chance of success as fast as possible and they see LFG requirements as the way to achieve that. Others, such as myself feel that teams fill faster with an inclusive agenda and this gets things done every bit as quickly and without the pressure.

i usually join "250+LI" squads for strikes. if you lfg during prime-time it takes about 2-5min to fill the squad, clearing all 5 strikes then takes 20-25 minutes. so overall 30min for a full strike clear.by the experience i have with "all welcome" squads, not only does it take
much
longer to clear all strikes - you also get less loot.Yep that can happen.I've also seen full try hard groups still looking for people to fill when I have had to relist and replace people after a kill.for example: just recently i did strikes with one of those "all welcome" squads on my alt-account. i was top dps while running suboptimal exotic gear (some pieces actually had soldiers stats). we didnt kill a single boss within the gold timer. we whiped several times at WoJ, so it took more than 30min to kill it. after 1 hour i left without even killing boneskinner.Wow.... so you joined a team knowing you were personally underperfoming and then the team didn't get gold.Shocking.Cool story. Good thing you have all that LIin conclusion:i dont mind joining "all welcome" squads and lowering my expectations. but saying those squads are just as fast is purely ignorant.I have sat waiting 5-10 minutes while a group of Try hard pugs debates Team Comp and who is going to play what more times than I can count.How long do you think it takes for a group of All Welcome pepegas like myself to kill voice and claw?

PS your edit after my response was ...pretty odd

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Mad Queen Malafide.7512" said:So because I gave an example of a positive way to make a LFG, I should there for approve of every kind of LFG, including the really exclusive and unpleasant ones?Yes.You should absolutely support anyone running their own squad whichever way they see fit. You should be happy to see people's targetted LFGs. The more targetted the better.You should support everyone's right to loudly broadcast "this is the kind of people I want to play this game with" and not take a single shred of crap for it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Cyninja.2954 said:No there isn't. If you demand the right to freedom to make groups how you want, that right must be extended to everybody, within the framework set by Arenanet (aka not offensive, no harassment, etc.). You don't get to cherry pick who's LFG demands are valid and who's are not. Your right extends to not joining that group, which I approve of you making use of, and that is IT.

I'm not making any such demand at all. I made no demands what so ever.

@Cyninja.2954 said:Spare me the righteous "but my LFG was inclusive". To that all I can say is:The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

Wow! By that reasoning you could dismiss every kind act as being a bad thing.

@Cyninja.2954 said:No, imagine someone had joined your group and started being toxic? You would have had every right to remove that person. You have that right because you clearly stated what you were looking for and he was not fitting. I would have been right there with you and said: yes, that was absolutely not okay. That person should have never joined, you were in every right to remove them.

The same extends to everyone else. If they made clearly what they are looking for, for which I have yet to see a good argument against, they have every right to remove players who do not fit that criteria.

The argument is not about if they have 'the right' to make any LFG they want. The argument is if they 'should' make these rediculously high requirements for content that does not require it. And I think they shouldn't.

@Cyninja.2954 said:I shall refer you to my previous comment about the road to Hell. The irony of it all being you not even realizing what the statement you made was.

You are not improving your tone good sir. Not one bit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"mindcircus.1506" said:Yep that can happen.I've also seen full try hard groups still looking for people to fill when I have had to relist and replace people after a kill.yep, that can happen too. not gonna argue about that ^^though people leaving after a single kill (usually daily) is a thing ive only seen in casual squads so far.

Wow.... so you joined a team knowing you were personally underperfoming and then the team didn't get gold.Shocking.how am i 'underperforming' when the lfg says "all welcome"? :smile:also, i dont think 20k+ dps is underperforming when the rest of the squad is somewhere around 8k...

I have sat waiting 5-10 minutes while a group of Try hard pugs debates Team Comp and who is going to play what more times than I can count.

never had that in any of my squads.shouldnt happen if the comm is "tryhard" enough to list the roles that need to be filled in lfg.the way i do it is usually: open squad, wait for a couple of dps to join, remove lfg (gotta be fast or you have 10dps before you can count to 5 :smiley:), list new lfg for qb,alac and healers.

How long do you think it takes for a group of All Welcome pepegas like myself to kill voice and claw?from my experience it can be anything from "barely within enrage timer plus 1 or 2 whipes" to "easy gold". with tryhards its guaranteed first try gold.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Mad Queen Malafide.7512 said:

@"Cyninja.2954" said:Spare me the righteous "but my LFG was inclusive". To that all I can say is:
The road to Hell is paved with good intentions
.

Wow! By that reasoning you could dismiss every kind act as being a bad thing.

No, that is not what that means.

Read further down:Moral certainty can be used to justify the harm done by failing policies and actions. Those with good intentions believe their practices are good for the group; it is self-evident to them.

You in this case use moral superiority of inclusiveness to justify that your way to use the LFG is the correct way, and others are misusing it.

Instead of accepting that a universal goal should be for everyone to be allowed the freedom of their choice in interacting with the LFG, equal rights to all, you are narrowing down other players freedoms by being selective of what you deem valuable (hence why I made the comment about you valuing your own opinion over others).

I could just as easily justify LI and KP demands by arguing that those groups have a higher success rate, need less time, are better organized or better full-fill the goal of bringing players of different abilities needed for a good group together. There are many positive descriptors which could be applied to WHY using LI and KP makes sense. I do not do so though, I am not taking the moral high ground because in my eyes, every players access to the LFG and right to use it is the same. You might notice, that with this approach, there is no conflict, neither in the way you feel the need to use the LFG, nor for any one else.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Cyninja.2954" said:Read further down:Moral certainty can be used to justify the harm done by failing policies and actions. Those with good intentions believe their practices are good for the group; it is self-evident to them.

The problem with quoting the words of others, is that they are not your words, and they can there for easily betray a misunderstanding of the original quote.Such is the case with your application of the popular phrase "The road to hell is pathed with good intentions". That phrase applies only to situations of good intentions leading to bad consequences. It does not however, apply to good acts. If I offer to teach random strangers how to do Fractals, that's a good act. You can't apply that phrase to it. It doesn't work.

This is also the case with your quote regarding moral certainty. If you're going to use those words, you had better make sure that the person you are discussing with made a statement of moral certainty, which I did not. I gave an opinion, not a statement of moral certainty.

Maybe you should stop quoting others.

If you are of the opinion that my act of offering to teach people how to do Fractals leads to "hell" or bad things. Then my question would be: "How?"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Mad Queen Malafide.7512 said:

@"Cyninja.2954" said:Read further down:
Moral certainty can be used to justify the harm done by failing policies and actions. Those with good intentions believe their practices are good for the group; it is self-evident to them.

The problem with quoting the words of others, is that they are not your words, and they can there for easily betray a misunderstanding of the original quote.Such is the case with your application of the popular phrase "
The road to hell is pathed with good intentions
". That phrase applies only to situations of good intentions leading to bad consequences. It does not however, apply to good acts. If I offer to teach random strangers how to do Fractals, that's a good act. You can't apply that phrase to it. It doesn't work.

You assuming that your usage of the LFG is "good" is already incorrect. It is at the very least inconsequential, unless you deem using the LFG with KP/LI as "evil". I'd be careful with value judgements.

Given your responses, you have painted a very clear picture of your personal opinions on this matter.

Also I was not quoting "others", I was quoting a common known proverb and providing a link in case it was not familiar to you.

There is no harm from creating "all welcome" LFGs. The harm comes from, what you tried to accomplish with this example in the context of this discussion, disallowing other approaches or uses of the LFG (or at the very least calling into question the morality of how others use the LFG). Where I explained that you seemed unaware of what argument you had actually made.

@Mad Queen Malafide.7512 said:This is also the case with your quote regarding moral certainty. If you're going to use those words, you had better make sure that the person you are discussing with made a statement of moral certainty, which I did not. I gave an opinion, not a statement of moral certainty.

Maybe you should stop quoting others.

If you are of the opinion that my act of offering to teach people how to do Fractals leads to "hell" or bad things. Then my question would be: "How?"

No, my opinion is that your suggestion that using the LFG only in ways you see as correct is of potential harm to the game, and others. Maybe not immediately, but in the long run. What if some time down the road, the same "rules" or value judgements made by you turn? Or someone else decides that their values are better/correct, and they get them implemented? That's the problem with "subjective value" based rules, they are subject to change over time.

Hence my opinion remains: let all players use the LFG how they see fit, and if everyone respects other players LFGs, there are no issues and this is free of any personal values players might hold, now and in the future.

That is unless I misunderstood the goal of your narrative post, and you simply wished to share a positive experience, while fully agreeing that each player should have the freedom to use the LFG how they see fit, within the scope set by the developers. In that case, we seem to agree and I congratulate you on your fun run.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Cyninja.2954 said:You assuming that your usage of the LFG is "good" is already incorrect.

Is helping others a "good" thing to do? If yes, then helping to teach people how to fractals, falls into that category.If not, then what is good in your opinion?

@Cyninja.2954 said:There is no harm from creating "all welcome" LFGs. The harm comes from, what you tried to accomplish with this example in the context of this discussion, disallowing other approaches or uses of the LFG (or at the very least calling into question the morality of how others use the LFG).

I didn't disallow anything. As far as I know, I'm not in charge of who gets to do what in GW2 (but wouldn't it be cool if I was? Bye mesmers!).

@Cyninja.2954 said:No, my opinion is that your suggestion that using the LFG only in ways you see as correct is of potential harm to the game, and others.

I never suggested that at all. What I said, was that excluding people with absurdly high requirements is bad for the game, and counter productive.

Because if you want to get a party together quickly, that will not help you accomplish that.And if you want to guarantee a success, it will not do that either, since you are not asking for Strike Mission experience.

@Cyninja.2954 said:and if everyone respects other players LFGs, there are no issues and this is free of any personal values players might hold, now and in the future.

I don't have to respect other people's LFG's at all, and I think that is a perfectly fine position to take.

@Cyninja.2954 said:That is unless I misunderstood the goal of your narrative post, and you simply wished to share a positive experience,

That was (obviously) the goal, as well as showing that inexperienced players can sometimes be better than experienced players to have in your group.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Mad Queen Malafide.7512 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:You assuming that your usage of the LFG is "good" is already incorrect.

Is helping others a "good" thing to do? If yes, then helping to teach people how to fractals, falls into that category.If not, then what is good in your opinion?

@Cyninja.2954 said:There is no harm from creating "all welcome" LFGs. The harm comes from, what you tried to accomplish with this example in the context of this discussion, disallowing other approaches or uses of the LFG (or at the very least calling into question the morality of how others use the LFG).

I didn't disallow anything. As far as I know, I'm not in charge of who gets to do what in GW2 (but wouldn't it be cool if I was? Bye mesmers!).

@Cyninja.2954 said:No, my opinion is that your suggestion that using the LFG only in ways you see as correct is of potential harm to the game, and others.

I never suggested that at all. What I said, was that excluding people with absurdly high requirements is bad for the game, and counter productive.

Because if you want to get a party together quickly, that will not help you accomplish that.And if you want to guarantee a success, it will not do that either, since you are not asking for Strke Mission experience.

@Cyninja.2954 said:and if everyone respects other players LFGs, there are no issues and this is free of any personal values players might hold, now and in the future.

I don't have to respect other people's LFG's at all, and I think that is a perfectly fine position to take.

@Cyninja.2954 said:That is unless I misunderstood the goal of your narrative post, and you simply wished to share a positive experience,

That was (obviously) the goal, as well as showing that inexperienced players can sometimes be better than experienced players to have in your group.

So my initial understanding was correct. You are more than happy with taking liberties for yourself, which you do not extend onto others. Yes, I guess that's where we differ, yet I am the toxic one. You know, I can live with that.

I guess that's why I have way less issues with LFGs. I actually respect what people write into them. You do you though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Cyninja.2954 said:So my initial understanding was correct. You are more than happy with taking liberties for yourself, which you do not extend onto others. Yes, I guess that's where we differ, yet I am the toxic one. You know, I can live with that.

I don't think that is what I said at all. Plus, is that all you gathered from my post? How about point number 1, or point number 3?Also, I never called you toxic, but I implied that you were being rude in your post(s). Which you were.

@Cyninja.2954 said:I guess that's why I have way less issues with LFGs. I actually respect what people write into them. You do you though.

Don't misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm not going to join a LFG when I don't meet the requirements of what they are asking (most of the time*). But I don't need to respect anyone for having outrageous LFG requirements.

(" There was this one time a group asked for a guardian, and I joined the group anyway and told them I was a guardian disguised as a necromancer.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Mad Queen Malafide.7512 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:So my initial understanding was correct. You are more than happy with taking liberties for yourself, which you do not extend onto others. Yes, I guess that's where we differ, yet I am the toxic one. You know, I can live with that.

I don't think that is what I said at all. Plus, is that all you gathered from my post? How about point number 1, or point number 3?Also, I never called you toxic, but I implied that you were being rude in your post(s). Which you were.

@Cyninja.2954 said:I guess that's why I have way less issues with LFGs. I actually respect what people write into them. You do you though.

Don't misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm not going to join a LFG when I don't meet the requirements of what they are asking (most of the time*). But I don't need to respect anyone for having outrageous LFG requirements.

(" There was this one time a group asked for a guardian, and I joined the group anyway and told them I was a guardian disguised as a necromancer.)

You know, it cuts both ways. If you do not have to respect other people's LFGs, they do not need to respect yours either. Elitists are free to join in and ruin your chill experience, because they do not need to respect your LFG requirements, just as you do not respect theirs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Mad Queen Malafide.7512 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:So my initial understanding was correct. You are more than happy with taking liberties for yourself, which you do not extend onto others. Yes, I guess that's where we differ, yet I am the toxic one. You know, I can live with that.

I don't think that is what I said at all. Plus, is that all you gathered from my post? How about point number 1, or point number 3?Also, I never called you toxic, but I implied that you were being rude in your post(s). Which you were.

@Cyninja.2954 said:I guess that's why I have way less issues with LFGs. I actually respect what people write into them. You do you though.

Don't misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm not going to join a LFG when I don't meet the requirements of what they are asking (most of the time*). But I don't need to respect anyone for having outrageous LFG requirements.Why wouldn't you respect it?They have in bright shining lights said "here is what this team is about" not just in terms of requirement, but in attitude and approach to the game. They have told you flat out that you would not enjoy yourself with the atmosphere they are playing under.Had they been vague about it you might have joined, and misery would likely ensue for you and for them. They are respecting your time every bit as much are you are respecting the time of speedrunners when you advertize your newbie friendly fractal runs.They have done you an absolute favor. I cannot understand the need to judge them for it.

There is no "wrong way" to enjoy this game. The hardest part can be finding like minded people. A targetted LFG helps everyone.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Obtena.7952 said:There should be NO debate here: Players can setup their LFG in any way they want ... EVEN if that way restricts their teaming options and eventually their self-imposed exclusivity leads to their self-extinction ... /shrugIndeed. Anyone should be completely free to team up with whomever they want to, according to whatever requirements they feel are okay (as long, of course, as the other people share those sentiments - they might not).I may disagree with requirements, or agree with them but dislike the content that causes them to be used, but i would still fully support the rights of players to choose who they're going to play with, and whom they want to avoid.

By the way, I'd say that my sig should explain my position on that well enough.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"mindcircus.1506" said:Why wouldn't you respect it?They have in bright shining lights said "here is what this team is about" not just in terms of requirement, but in attitude and approach to the game. They have told you flat out that you would not enjoy yourself with the atmosphere they are playing under.

I respect what you're saying, and don't disagree in theory. Having clear communication regarding what sort of people you are looking for is fine...

...as long as it is reasonable. Asking for 250 KPI for Shiverpeak Pass is not reasonable, it is stupid. I don't respect stupidity.

Further more, Strike Missions are intended to help players get into raiding for crying out loud! They are there to get around the harsh requirements of raiding, and teach people basic raid boss mechanics. And then we have people asking for raid experience to do what is intended as a raid stepping stone. That does not deserve any respect.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...