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What do you think about implementing PvP gear system into WvW rather than PvE gear system we have?


Ahnlok.3897

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not sure why people find the idea so offensive. from what i remember in spvp you pick your weapons and the stats you desire for your build and you're ready to go.in what way does that become a negative? i even saw someone say it would be bad for build diversity. how?

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@Comus.7365 said:not sure why people find the idea so offensive. from what i remember in spvp you pick your weapons and the stats you desire for your build and you're ready to go.in what way does that become a negative? i even saw someone say it would be bad for build diversity. how?

The pvp stat amulets are locked into specific combinations, people in WvW like to use multiple different stats combinations on seperate gear pieces and min/max them for more build variety. It's more fun than just picking 1 trinket with all stats imo. So the build diversity thing is mostly about reducing the amount of player input on your stats. Double if they decide to remove pve runes/sigils and opt to use the pvp ones.

There's a case to be made for ease of entry for new players but imo it's too late to change to something like the amulet system now that people have invested all their time and gold into obtaining gear/infusions for wvw. Also anet is working on the legendary armory/template thing which basically accomplishes the same as long as you spend the gold to obtain full legendary gear. I don't see them launching that and then going to pvp system.

But yeah this topic has been brought up dozens of times and always goes the same direction, nowhere.

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@WraithOfStealth.1624 said:

@Comus.7365 said:not sure why people find the idea so offensive. from what i remember in spvp you pick your weapons and the stats you desire for your build and you're ready to go.in what way does that become a negative? i even saw someone say it would be bad for build diversity. how?

The pvp stat amulets are locked into specific combinations, people in WvW like to use multiple different stats combinations on seperate gear pieces and min/max them for more build variety. It's more fun than just picking 1 trinket with all stats imo. So the build diversity thing is mostly about reducing the amount of player input on your stats. Double if they decide to remove pve runes/sigils and opt to use the pvp ones.

There's a case to be made for ease of entry for new players but imo it's too late to change to something like the amulet system now that people have invested all their time and gold into obtaining gear/infusions for wvw. Also anet is working on the legendary armory/template thing which basically accomplishes the same as long as you spend the gold to obtain full legendary gear. I don't see them launching that and then going to pvp system.

But yeah this topic has been brought up dozens of times and always goes the same direction, nowhere.

oh ok i thought they had access to the same thing just that theirs was gear independent.

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@WraithOfStealth.1624 said:

@Comus.7365 said:not sure why people find the idea so offensive. from what i remember in spvp you pick your weapons and the stats you desire for your build and you're ready to go.in what way does that become a negative? i even saw someone say it would be bad for build diversity. how?

The pvp stat amulets are locked into specific combinations, people in WvW like to use multiple different stats combinations on seperate gear pieces and min/max them for more build variety. It's more fun than just picking 1 trinket with all stats imo. So the build diversity thing is mostly about reducing the amount of player input on your stats. Double if they decide to remove pve runes/sigils and opt to use the pvp ones.

There's a case to be made for ease of entry for new players but imo it's too late to change to something like the amulet system now that people have invested all their time and gold into obtaining gear/infusions for wvw. Also anet is working on the legendary armory/template thing which basically accomplishes the same as long as you spend the gold to obtain full legendary gear. I don't see them launching that and then going to pvp system.

But yeah this topic has been brought up dozens of times and always goes the same direction, nowhere.

I think some people are over reacting because they think the system would just be a full copy of the pvp system, basically what's available for stats and runes and sigils, leaving out some stuff like bunker stats (which some people want removed anyways so that would be a plus for them).

I think they would implement the system switchable like pvp but with full slots and not just an amulet, while keeping all the pve stats available, even as broken as some combinations might be. It's something in the back of anets minds anyways, to maybe get something of a hybrid system, to make it easier to switch and test builds. Raymond mentioned just leaving it to legendaries doesn't feel right.

But they know players don't want a full on pvp system in place.

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Would greatly prefer it, even though I have a legendary in every weapon slot for all my builds and full ascended armor + thousands upon thousands of gold and mats.

Some armor stat combos, runes, sigils, food, and pots simply should not exist in WvW.

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I'd rather exotics scaled to ascended weapons' damage in WvW as that's literally the only major hurdle if you're new. However it isn't a huge problem.Ascended amulet+trinkets? Go to Bjora Marches zone for amulet/trinkets and convert for rings and 2nd trinket.Ascended back? Get winterberries or blood rubies.Ascended armor doesn't provide more than 2% overall stats but there's a 1% bonus damage per WvW infusion to guards/keep lords so that's what adds up. (6% in total if you don't have armor)

It's been shown they don't care if ascended food + utilities are used in WvW but maybe the +150 toughness from karka potions should be removed as it stacks on top of food. (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Potion_Of_Karka_Toughness)

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I'd be fine with it if they had the full armor/trinket system to mix-and-match, and if they used the PvE gear values as they do - in essence, free armor and trinkets. sPvP has a much slower combat speed because stats are just downright lower. This works for some people. I play WvW and always have solely for the faster combat speed.

Several of my builds are optimized within fractions of a percent for very specific purposes which are just not possible to do at all in sPvP when the entirety of the gear config is gated behind a single selection. With the larger scale and needing to handle more potential cases comes the need for much more tweaking, and the need for stats to offset some kit weaknesses is pretty important in a lot of builds which are just straight up not viable in sPvP compared to others.

Otherwise, without this level of customization, absolutely not.WvW would be made a lot more diverse if they removed Dire/TB from the game and prevented ascended food from being used if we're going to talk about limiting PvE intervention.

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@Ahnlok.3897 said:Although, I highly doubt Anet will give 0 consideration on this issue,I just wanna hear you guys thoughts.

I believe a feature like that would be met with revolt, and eventually end up in a catastrophic turmoil in the community. People have spent too much time crafting for their ascended and legendary gear. Implementing a PVP gear system in WVW would be a huge f*** you to everyone who have strived to get where they are at today in terms of gear. It would render everything they have worked for completely useless. The amount of outcry would ultimately lead to Anet having to grant some sort of compensation for the amount of hours and gold that people have dispursed , or perhaps push those with ascended/legendary gear up the ladder so that it would be easier for them to acquire it, and that too would probably spark a lot of tension. Either way, I don't see this happening at all.

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I always thought a system that split attributes into categories and then you could place x amount of points into each would have been the way to go if they were looking at a new one for wvw.

Offensive:PowerCondition

Defensive:ToughnessVitalityHealing

Auxiliary:Ferocity (crit damage and condi damage)PrecisionExpertiseConcentration

Idk just a thought.

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Maybe something down the middle:

  • Option to use WvW build template or your own gear
  • Gear: Make all stat combination of exotic tier available in WvW build templates, easier to experiment new builds and easier access for newer players. If you are happy with the build, you can go ahead and craft/buy/etc for the ascended/legendary gears to make the build "complete".
  • Runes: Introduce "Intermediate runes" which are 6 set runes that provide less total stat than the Superior counterparts. They are only available through the WvW build templates and aren't actually trade-able.
  • Sigils: WvW build templates uses Major sigil equivalents only.

I think this would help with freedom of builds while not punishing the people that have grinded out their ascended/legendary items already. The only problem would be the economy of minor/major sigils/runes, which I don't think is a huge consequence.

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An amulet or any other fixed stat system should have been implemented since the beginning. PvE gear and items have no place in a PvP environment.

I find it curious that build diversity is a recurring argument to defend a deficient gearing system. Since the very start PvE gear and items have bread nothing but broken builds. From Perplexity runes (the first implementation) over Expertise and Concentration attributes to now Trailblazer or Minstrel gear, the list is seemingly endless. The ascended power creep aggravated an already existing problem.

If you're into WvW for PvP then there is literally no way you can be OK with the current system.

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@"Elmo Benchwarmer.3025"

Even though this might be a good idea balance wise.

It would kinda kill the gamemode for me. Minmaxing gear, theory crafting for hours. That's what's fun for me.Tweaking gear a bit after fighting.

But with pvp-amulet system, this would completely die.You can't go like "200more healing power and I'm good"

Maybe if they made an amulet for every single equipment piece. And nerf the stats of them. That would be fine for me.

But that wouldn't really help I think.

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I like the balance from PvP better than WvW.And If something seems balanced in small scale combat it will be the same for big scale. And when something is broken in small scale is obnoxious in big scale.Example: Condi rev is unbalance in PvP but still manageable. You can have some matches where you can get teh upper hand if you are much better than the rev. But in WvW the condi rev build is kitten level of high brain you can 6v1 easily with just having a keyboard and an screen.

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@Elmo Benchwarmer.3025 said:If you're into WvW for PvP then there is literally no way you can be OK with the current system.Of course we are into WvW for PvP: WvW is a form of PvP! if we were not into it, we would have stayed in PvE..

@Elmo Benchwarmer.3025 said:I find it curious that build diversity is a recurring argument to defend a deficient gearing system. Since the very start PvE gear and items have bread nothing but broken builds. From Perplexity runes (the first implementation) over Expertise and Concentration attributes to now Trailblazer or Minstrel gear, the list is seemingly endless. The ascended power creep aggravated an already existing problem.It's not an issue of "PvE gear", it's an issue of the 4 stats sets. this gives both an increaseed stat budget compared to the older 3 stats sets, and the fact that now you can have effcient fully tanky sets with TB or Minstrel, where you near max out toughness and vitality while still having a near optimum condi dmg capability (TB) or a near otpimum healing and buffing capability (Minstrel).

On top of that the design of the eilte specs were absolutly not thought through and you end up with bluids that pile up tons of condis on top or tons of buffs and the number of broken builds is reaching an all time high.

With the initial system you still had some broken builds from a stats point of view (ex: Dire) but not as much as now and you had to make choices in your choice of stats and decide between dmg vs tanky vs healing (cele is an oddity but it was never broken because it has always been in synergy with specific builds, otherwise you are just average at everything but can't shine in anything).

Also, funily enough other MMOs are using similar gearing system in both PvE and PvP and have managed to struck some form of balance eventually...The sPvP gearing system is good to even out the gearing and level field and have all players play in the same category instead of having several tiers when leveling, then a end-game tier for max level, tier in which the newcomer is at a disadvantage because he has not grinded yet his gear.

That's the only benefit from the amulet system, and it's done at the expense of some people being able to really min/max the stats for your use (more or less dmg vs more or less survivability, etc..).

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To also give a voice here, I’m against it. Build-/Theory -Crafting in WvW is if not the last thing left that has something seriously well thought out. Not in terms of balance but in terms of build diversity. If I am not even able to have diverse builds with traits because there is every time only one single trait that is good to use why should I want to tune that down even more. There are other things that would help for example maybe balance the fucking classes?

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-Pvp is not much more balanced.-WvW is a place you can use all of your pve hard work in a competive setting-You have much higher control over your stats-it is good for end game players that are looking for reasons to improve their skills using their equipment that often took a long time to attain and are proud of. It gives them more to work for in terms of more weapons/ armor

  • everyone is still on the same field... no one has access to higher stats since everyone can get exotic/ascended stats and food.
  • it you don't want to bother with ascended you don't have to since it is only 5% difference in base stats

So no, i disagree with op like many others

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@"Bish.8627" said:I would love it. I think one of the major issues WvW in gaining numbers is how accessible it is to everyone. We have meta builds, locked and invisible squads that demand voice chat for entry, which is third party and imo should be outlawed apart from guild only squads and players getting kicked for not being a meta build, so if that doesn't scare away your average player wanting to give WvW a try, how about when they realise, lets say, their zerker ranger isn't ideal for zerg game play, only really roaming. So they decide to roll a scourge, they have to level it, fine maybe even you can get away with that in WvW if you aren't too fussy about being in a squad, or even EoTM if anyone still runs it, get you up to speed. But then they have to gear it. And then guess what, next balance pass, scourges are out of favour, everyone wants bomber scrappers, sorry your scourge is not welcome here, go make a scrapper.... Facing gearing up chars is daunting to anyone other than quite a hardcore player, as easy as those of us with 6000+ hours think it is, new players may not feel the same.

But I also understand, those of us who have spent thousands of gold over 7 years, are gonna be dissapointed, I feel there is a bigger picture. Maybe there can be a hybrid solution so not everyone loses out.

How is this any different to PVE Raids? PVE raiding is all about being on the right class with the right builds and if youre not you dont get invited or you get kicked. And they are susceptible to the same issues with balance passes. A class/build maybe meta for a while and after balance it is no longer the best and you will have to re gear or swap classes.

I dont do raids because i dont have the gear, whatever needed to get into a squad. I would never be invited or would be insta kicked. Lets have PVE raids with amulet system also so that its accessible for everyone. To paraphrase you "so it doesnt scare away the average player who wants to give PVE raids a try"

I can imagine the howls of anger from PVE' ers if that was suggested.

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